I want to open a thread on this matter. These are observations, more than questions, but please chime in. I think a pleasant ride to and from your destination is golden and paramount.
Sorry for the very very long post, but when all said and done we can refer people back here on this topic. Ill even later shrink it:)
I had to make a quick trip to NC from TN and instead of flying I decided to just tow the 21BHS with F150 there on Friday, and back on Sunday. I've said to myself it's hard to learn everything about the trailer without camping and it's hard to learn all the aspects of Sway, Distribution, and Tongue weight without a "good road trip".
Destination - Chattanooga TN to Greensboro NC
via 75N and i40E
380 mile one way.
If you know the route, you know its not 100% easy starting 10 miles before border traveling 40 east. You must keep your eye on the road 200% of the time on many spots, a second could make the difference, especially during the 30 mile stretch that includes the border and the descent from Black Mount (2-3% downhill, 6 miles)
1) After 100 miles near Knoxville heading East, I stopped and tweaked the brackets on my 4 point equalizer hitch to help with sway, but I said why not call Livin Lite also just to get their opinion on WDHs and sway bars. I spoke with whoever answered the phone in Service/Parts/Warranty – I think option 3 or 4
His words verbatim,
"Well we really don't get into Weight Distr. hitches or any of that. As you are torqueing the tongue, and as you know steel is stronger than aluminum and that could bend the frame. Those 4 points where they reference includes where the frame could bend."
I continued to say I just felt I should have a better ride, with the lightweight and my pulling power per se.
However after he told me this I did later undo the adjustment as I feel I was over torqueing to get that ride I had with my previous Resse pro hitch with chains. I was a bit nervous so again I undid these, just being honest.
He did add it was ok to use the hitch for sway, as long as I'm not torqueing the frame. Ok fair enough.
2) I also needed to fill up with gas; I think I was very low from not filling up earlier. I have a 26-gallon tank. So at 6 lbs. per gallon, I added about 22 gallons or 132 lbs.
Voila, I get back on the highway and I am now driving the smoothest truck and trailer thus far from my all my drive test. It's not as perfect as I feel – I still want better sway control, but it was noticeably different in a good way. I undid my bracket changes, so the only variance was 132 lbs of fuel.
3) This then takes me back to a conversation I had with a gentleman at my RV storage lot. I mentioned how I felt I should tow better, He said mentions a tongue weight scale he has and he makes sure he is at the 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight. He said once he got his tongue weight correct he didn't need any equipment for WDH or SWAY. He doesn't own any. He tows a commercial V nose trailer that when loaded is 8K lbs. So he has figure out how to have 800 to 1000lbs upfront.
4) This also takes me back to the 1st time I cleaned out grey and black tanks. Unbeknownst to me they were full from the dealership, I had towed it home 100 miles. And went camping 2 nights not using plumbing.
I don't know how full they were, but they dumped with full force for a good amount of time. Now to do some math, using 8 lbs per gallon,
If black is full, that's 224 lbs
If grey is full, that's 256 lbs
These two alone are 480 lbs
If Fresh water were full, that's another 244 lbs.
I assume my fresh water is empty, I'm not really sure to be honest.
A total of up to 724 lbs could be added, whatever the weight is, it's not on the tongue. I don't think that is good if I didn't factor it in.
The ride was ironically different when I filled the truck with gas, but could that be enough to make a difference in the ride? I mean it was only 120 lbs? Both grey/black tanks were empty leaving out. The ride was much better, I was still on flat driving terrain.
But 3 things are happening now, im moving weight around (fuel) and im learning to counter steer better as tractor-trailers get in my trailers blind spot, the point where I feel the tug inward, and I'm driving in right lane and driving as far right as I can while staying in lane. The further the passing truck is away, the further I won't deal with their sway. While the last 2 items provide a sense of security, it still seems like too much to do all the time, this is why it's hard for me to plan a Grand Canyon destination trip for example.
5) Something else learned, wind is wind and there's nothing you can do about it. But the only thing you can do is have sway under-control.
The descent down Black Mountain was beautifully controlled by the F150 towing features, but Mother Nature's winds also were in play. Prior to descending I was still enjoying the better ride.
Wind was my problem after descending down. Until wind hit 0, I constantly asked SIRI "what is wind speed right now". Sometimes the iphone gives it to you with speed only, other times it gives you direction as well. A very interesting feature that I noticed I used this week and of course the wind speed was a direct link to the ride.
When wind hit 5 mph, I was fine, It was as high as 25 mph at times. it eventually hit 0 and I was in heaven, but what about sway. Only with trucks at that point, and especially if I was zoned out, and missed one coming up on me.
My trip back, I started out with grey and black each ½ full, I did this on purpose. I filled the tank. The ride was not as good as 2nd and last leg of trip in.
Winds were 0, not many trucks early Sunday morning. But as they increased, I moved into negotiations with counter-steering, far right driving etc....
So I'm always prepping for the long trip, and I realize this is not a problem for all, and I am still tweaking it, as I know the ride I want.
If you have any input, please chime in with experiences, secrets, whatever.
Sorry for the very long post, but wasn't sure how to shrink this down without details.
Thanks
Ken
Ken,
Thanks for the post. I didn't think it was too long of a post. The detail really helped.
I have the 21BHS and am towing with a Ram 1500. I towed it some without a weight distribution hitch. When I would lower the trailer onto the hitch, the Ram would only squat 1.5 - 2 inches; and would still sit nice and level. Towing without a WDH was really nice (black and grey tanks empty, and water tank 1/2 full). But, although I didn't experience any sway, I wanted some sway control before taking on any long trips. So, I opted for the Andersen WDH for a couple of reasons. The strengths of the andersen hitch are sway control and bounce control. It does distribute weight, but that is not it's strongest point. Since weight distribution was not a big need, and I did experience some bouncing when driving over small bridges, etc., I figured it would fit the bill. Also, the hitch just clamps on, and is light. So I installed the hitch and tightened up the chains to raise the rear of the truck about an inch, and took it out for a drive. It towed fine, but felt very stiff. I did not like the feel at all. So on my return trip, I set the chain tension to about half of what I had initially. That seemed to dial it right in. Now it tows great, is not distributing much weight since the truck's rear is not raising much when I tighten the chains, so I am not putting a lot of force on the frame. Now, I have great sway control, and it stops the bouncing, which is a nice plus for me.
So if it still doesn't feel quite right, try reducing the weight distribution further, but still utilize the sway control capabilities of the hitch. The 21BHS with the F-150 shouldn't require much in the weight distribution department. I know it doesn't with my Ram 1500.
Doug
[quote source="/post/752/thread" timestamp="1398782087" author="@djsamuel"]Ken,
Thanks....
[/quote]I will address that next as well. More sway control, no Weight Distro. Thanks for input.
Ken
The downside to the equalizer type hitches is that the pressure on the spring bars is what creates the sway control. If there isn't any weight on the spring bars they will just swing freely.
[quote source="/post/756/thread" timestamp="1398785094" author="@tinkeringtechie"]The downside to the equalizer type hitches is that the pressure on the spring bars is what creates the sway control. If there isn't any weight on the spring bars they will just swing freely.[/quote]I've wondered if I had the best hitch. It came with trailer, yet can be purchased for around $550 for the model I have, i don't think its cheap, just wrong maybe.
I would recommend checking your tongue weight. The symptoms that you're describing sound like the trailer weight is too far back. More tongue weight on an equalizer setup is a good thing. It makes the trailer less likely to sway AND increases the sway control.
You can view a video that provides a good description of the Andersen Hitch here:
[video src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRoQ_yQZQwQ"][/video]
Anyone use a husky straight line on a LL yet?
[quote source="/post/1601/thread" timestamp="1403211174" author="@funpilot"]Anyone use a husky straight line on a LL yet? [/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]Haven't used one but it looks like an Equalizer knock off. here's a link from Forest River:
[a href="http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f12/husky-centerline-vs-equalizer-vs-reese-dual-cam-20214.html"]link to Huskey Centerline Thread[/a]
Note the caution on alignment when hitching/unhitching. This could be a problem. And I kinda like a bit of noise from my E2. I know its' working! Adding grease defeats the purpose.
[/font][/font]
I believe I read somewhere that we should not drill holes in the frame for a WD hitch on our aluminum trailers. So, is there any kind of consensus which brand is the best for our trailers? I do not have the personal experience to properly read all the forums that talk about WD and sway control and relate it to the LL. Help !!
No holes necessary for either my EAZ-Lift hitch nor my Husky Sway Control (with the optional clamp-on ball).
[font size="3"][font face="arial"]No holes required for Equalizer or E2 WDHs
[/font][/font]
[quote source="/post/1612/thread" timestamp="1403267511" author="@funpilot"]I believe I read somewhere that we should not drill holes in the frame for a WD hitch on our aluminum trailers. So, is there any kind of consensus which brand is the best for our trailers? I do not have the personal experience to properly read all the forums that talk about WD and sway control and relate it to the LL. Help !![/quote]There are a lot of brands that will work. Just look for "clamp-on" style brackets. I'd be wary of the ones that use set screws though. They'll still call them "clamp-on" because there isn't any drilling, but there's a lot of pressure being focused on the tip of a single bolt/screw. That seems more likely to damage the frame compared to the full length clamp that spreads the pressure over a larger surface area. Here are a couple pictures to illustrate the difference:
full length:
[attachment id="173" thumbnail="1"]
set screw:
[attachment id="174" thumbnail="1"]
It might be overly cautious, but it just seems stronger and easier on the frame to go full-length. Usually the full-length brackets are 1/2" steel vs the 1/4" used on the set screw brackets.
I use the Andersen on my VRV. I really like the hitch. It's clean (no grease needed), quiet, light (around 55#), and removes all sway and bounce. The one caveat is it does not distribute weight as well as a typical WDH using spring bars, so caution if your TT has a lot of TW.
I am a brand new member and an owner of a 16' Camplite that we purchased in April of this year. My dealer, Dave at D&H RV just posted an email I sent him about my experiences with the Cl, almost all positive. Please read the comments about WDH/Sway Control. None needed with my tow vehicle, a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder.
We were also interested in the 21' model and for that one our TV would have been marginal without a WDH. As previously reported above LL doesn't really recommend WDHs due to the A-Frame strength so I probably would have strengthened the A frame with welded aluminum plate. Also as noted above it is not recommended to use bolted through brackets on aluminum frames. Here is a short note from Reese Hitch technical folks commenting on their WDH:
Dual cam sway control requires drilling of the frame. We would suggest the 66558.
Cequent Performance Products
Sway is a matter of TV and trailer geometry and the stiffness of the TV's suspension. There are rules of thumb of the maximum ration of TV wheelbase to TV length for decent towing. I can't quote them but I am sure they can be googled. I suspect that with the 16' Cl I am within the guidelines but outside with the 21' Cl. It also helps a lot that my tow weight is about 60% of the TV loaded weight.
WD is a different issue. It is used to shift some of the trailer's tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle of the TV. My tongue weight is about 270 lbs (about 8% of the tow weight). I could make it higher by shifting trailer stuff forward, but it works now, so leave it alone. The rear suspension drops about 1-/2 inches and that is acceptable. Much more and I would want a WDH.
My 16'ers trailer loaded weight is about 3,300 lbs. The 21'er is 200-300 lbs heavier and steel frame models hit 4,000# and upwards. I wouldn't want to pull 4,000 lbs with my Pathfinder, even though it is rated for 5.000#.
I would be happy to answer specific WDH/sway hitch and towing questions on this thread. For general Cl stuff, see Dave's post. I will answer those questions in that thread.
David
[quote source="/post/1785/thread" timestamp="1404248151" author="@david"]I am a brand new member and an owner of a 16' Camplite that we purchased in April of this year. My dealer, Dave at D&H RV just posted an email I sent him about my experiences with the Cl, almost all positive. Please read the comments about WDH/Sway Control. None needed with my tow vehicle, a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder.
We were also interested in the 21' model and for that one our TV would have been marginal without a WDH. As previously reported above LL doesn't really recommend WDHs due to the A-Frame strength so I probably would have strengthened the A frame with welded aluminum plate. Also as noted above it is not recommended to use bolted through brackets on aluminum frames. Here is a short note from Reese Hitch technical folks commenting on their WDH:
Dual cam sway control requires drilling of the frame. We would suggest the 66558.
Cequent Performance Products
Sway is a matter of TV and trailer geometry and the stiffness of the TV's suspension. There are rules of thumb of the maximum ration of TV wheelbase to TV length for decent towing. I can't quote them but I am sure they can be googled. I suspect that with the 16' Cl I am within the guidelines but outside with the 21' Cl. It also helps a lot that my tow weight is about 60% of the TV loaded weight.
WD is a different issue. It is used to shift some of the trailer's tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle of the TV. My tongue weight is about 270 lbs (about 8% of the tow weight). I could make it higher by shifting trailer stuff forward, but it works now, so leave it alone. The rear suspension drops about 1-/2 inches and that is acceptable. Much more and I would want a WDH.
My 16'ers trailer loaded weight is about 3,300 lbs. The 21'er is 200-300 lbs heavier and steel frame models hit 4,000# and upwards. I wouldn't want to pull 4,000 lbs with my Pathfinder, even though it is rated for 5.000#.
I would be happy to answer specific WDH/sway hitch and towing questions on this thread. For general Cl stuff, see Dave's post. I will answer those questions in that thread.
David
[/quote]Welcome to the forum! I commend you for carefully selecting a trailer that's appropriate for your tow vehicle. There are way too many overweight rigs out there and I'm always glad to see someone err on the side of caution. While you may not "need" sway control or weight distribution, it can still improve handling and performance. I didn't need it either, but I chose to add it for the unexpected situations (emergency braking, a tire blows out, having to swerve around an obstacle, a huge gust of wind hits the trailer, etc...). I want to make sure I have as much traction and stability as possible for those situations.
Thanks for your kind words. That is exactly what I did- selected a trailer that weighed less than 2/3 of my TV and used only 2/3 of its rated towing capacity.
I do appreciate that a WDH would improve emergency handling even for my situation. When I talked to Troy at the factory about his reticence to recommend WDHs for the aluminum frame he did allow that once you have towed with one, you will always want one. Troy is an ex Resse guy.
David
[quote source="/post/1805/thread" timestamp="1404318208" author="@david"]Thanks for your kind words. That is exactly what I did- selected a trailer that weighed less than 2/3 of my TV and used only 2/3 of its rated towing capacity.
I do appreciate that a WDH would improve emergency handling even for my situation. When I talked to Troy at the factory about his reticence to recommend WDHs for the aluminum frame he did allow that once you have towed with one, you will always want one. Troy is an ex Resse guy.
David[/quote]I think LL's reluctance to recommend any WDH is mostly because they don't have the resources to test each and every combination. They also don't have any control over the way the hitches are installed (some dealers and owners are just clueless). From a liability stance, it's safer for them to recommend nothing than to recommend something untested. Well there are quite a few of us testing with various setups and none of us have had the front of our trailers fall off yet :)
I chose full-length clamp on brackets with a medium spring bar (600lbs) to help reduce the stress on the frame. I can imagine that if you used one of the 1,000+ lbs hitches and went off-roading it might put too much stress on the frame.
Quote from: @tinkeringtechie" source="/post/756/thread" timestamp="1398785094The downside to the equalizer type hitches is that the pressure on the spring bars is what creates the sway control. If there isn't any weight on the spring bars they will just swing freely.
I have an equalizer hitch on my camplite setup. There are four friction points in the Equal-i-zer hitch system for sway control. Two friction points are the spring arms contacting the L brackets on the trailer frame. The other two friction points are between the swing arm sockets pivoting in the hitch head. The bolts holding those sockets to the hitch head are torqued to a minimum 45 to maximum 65 ft-lb. as described in the Equal-i-zer hitch owners manual on page 23. My swing arms are very hard to swing because of the friction in the swing arm sockets. I have to use a plastic pipe extension to help get them into position to lift them onto the L brackets.
I keep my swing arms at about 1 1/2" below the L brackets when relaxed. This gives me just enough flex to level the setup, but not enough to bend the aluminum trailer frame members. The trailer tows very well with no sway even if a truck passes by at highway speeds.
If your spring arms are easy to swivel back and forth, then the swing arm socket bolts are too loose and no sway control is applied from that part of the system.
[quote source="/post/4032/thread" timestamp="1412287802" author="@shortcircuit"][quote source="/post/756/thread" timestamp="1398785094" author="@tinkeringtechie"]The downside to the equalizer type hitches is that the pressure on the spring bars is what creates the sway control. If there isn't any weight on the spring bars they will just swing freely.[/quote]
I have an equalizer hitch on my camplite setup. There are four friction points in the Equal-i-zer hitch system for sway control. Two friction points are the spring arms contacting the L brackets on the trailer frame. The other two friction points are between the swing arm sockets pivoting in the hitch head. The bolts holding those sockets to the hitch head are torqued to a minimum 45 to maximum 65 ft-lb. as described in the Equal-i-zer hitch owners manual on page 23. My swing arms are very hard to swing because of the friction in the swing arm sockets. I have to use a plastic pipe extension to help get them into position to lift them onto the L brackets.
I keep my swing arms at about 1 1/2" below the L brackets when relaxed. This gives me just enough flex to level the setup, but not enough to bend the aluminum trailer frame members. The trailer tows very well with no sway even if a truck passes by at highway speeds.
If your spring arms are easy to swivel back and forth, then the swing arm socket bolts are too loose and no sway control is applied from that part of the system.[/quote]I only have the 2-point version, but I thought the other 2-points were also based on weight. If they're set by bolt torque then you'll lose some of your sway control if your tongue weight is reduced, but part of it will be constant. Hmmm... maybe I should've bought the 4-point version... ::)
The tongue weight has nothing to do with the swing arm socket friction adjustment. The socket bolt torque affects the swing arm socket friction level. However, the amount of swing arm flexing will add to the socket friction value.
[quote source="/post/4034/thread" timestamp="1412294235" author="@shortcircuit"]The tongue weight has nothing to do with the swing arm socket friction adjustment. The socket bolt torque affects the swing arm socket friction level. However, the amount of swing arm flexing will add to the socket friction value.[/quote]Yeah, I think we're on the same page but I didn't write my response very clearly. What I was trying to say is that out of the total 4 points of friction, only 2 (the l-brackets) are affected by tongue weight. The other 2 (the sockets) should be relatively constant.
To revive an older thread......I've done some searches on this and other forums for information on weight distribution hitches and anti-sway bars. It seems the 16TBS is at (or below) the size of trailer that normally benefits from a wdh. However, when towing the empty trailer with my Land Cruiser, I had what I would describe as a rather busy ride---lots of very small movements of the trailer up and down and back and forth. Nothing unsafe or difficult to control at all, but unsettling for 100 miles. When I get the TBS loaded (but w/o water), I would guess I'll be adding about 300-500 lbs to the trailer with about 150 lbs of that on the tongue. That will put my total weight around 3500 and tongue weight around 350. The Land Cruiser capacity is 6500 total and 650 tongue and the vehicle weighs close to 3 tons loaded. I have no experience with a wdh hitch and the setup I have certainly doesn't need it to meet weight capacities, but I wonder if that type of hitch accessory would help quiet the ride? Maybe just the additional weight of the load will help? Maybe just an anti-sway bar would help? i plan to tow long distances next year so i want to get a comfortable setup installed now. Any experiences from fellow Camplighters with wdh or ant-sway on the 16 foot models would be appreciated
[p]Your increased tongue weight will help more than anything else. It will put more weight on the coupler and prevent noisy bouncing. It will also change the dynamics and reduce sway.[/p][p]
David[/p]
[quote timestamp="1398788435" author="@djsamuel" source="/post/759/thread"]You can view a video that provides a good description of the Andersen Hitch here:
[/quote]that is a pretty slick product... should I need one, I'll definitely consider it!
I've been asking my dealer about the Anderson for my 14DBS. Their only experience is they installed one, and haven't heard back from the customer one way or another.
I finally got over there to pick her up after winterizing and some minor warranty work, and he said they have started installing something called a Steadi-Flex...designed for lighter tongue-weight rigs. They are using them a lot with the R-Pods (this dealer moves a lot of R-Pods) as well as LL's.
Anyone ever heard of this ? I found a picture on e-trailer.com, and it looks like a thinned-down WDH. Nothing magic.
[quote source="/post/6164/thread" timestamp="1421902666" author="@pinstriper"]I've been asking my dealer about the Anderson for my 14DBS. Their only experience is they installed one, and haven't heard back from the customer one way or another.
I finally got over there to pick her up after winterizing and some minor warranty work, and he said they have started installing something called a Steadi-Flex...designed for lighter tongue-weight rigs. They are using them a lot with the R-Pods (this dealer moves a lot of R-Pods) as well as LL's.
Anyone ever heard of this ? I found a picture on e-trailer.com, and it looks like a thinned-down WDH. Nothing magic.[/quote]From what I found "Steady-Flex" is built by Reese, the specific hitch that D&H RV recommended to Dave (I think?) was #66558.
I am a new member and have not yet taken delivery of our 21BHS. I have a 2015 chevy colorado rated at 7000 lbs. towing capacity. I figure the loaded trailer will near 4500 lbs. or so; that I will be in the 64-67% ratio of tow vehicle weight to trailer loaded weight.
I have decided to get the Andersen hitch because of the threads on this forum. Actually I have taken a couple of headache tablets trying to decide but am forging ahead with Andersen due to cost, ease of installation/adjustment, and comments from many that have it already as well has watching every youtube video on it out there!
My question is regarding the LL aluminum 21BHS tongue strength, should I have LL/dealer strengthen the tongue with welding aluminum plate? I see where several members have the 21 ft. trailer along with the Andersen hitch but not sure if they beefed up the tongue frame or not. If so what are the dimensions of the frame after adding aluminum plate?
Based on all the comments I am not sure I need the additional strength.
Thanks for your comments!
My understanding is that the Andersen does not provide much WD and that it's the WD function that would cause the stress not recommended on the aluminum frames... ?
[quote source="/post/6828/thread" timestamp="1424052285" author="@surfsup"]My understanding is that the Andersen does not provide much WD and that it's the WD function that would cause the stress not recommended on the aluminum frames... ?[/quote][font size="3"]Per djsamuel that's also my understanding re the Andresen WDH performance. The CL frame should not be an issue, but the ball coupler is a weak spot. Check the thread on bent couplers.
[/font]
Quote from: @surfsup" timestamp="1424052285" source="/post/6828/threadMy understanding is that the Andersen does not provide much WD and that it's the WD function that would cause the stress not recommended on the aluminum frames... ?
[p]I don't think I can speak definitively about the issue, but I *think* I can identify the issue. It is more like...the Andersen does not provide much WD, but if you did need WD, the frame-to-coupler connection would not withstand it. Or, would not withstand it being over-adjusted, the way steel would be more forgiving of overloading at the coupler.[/p][p]
[/p][p]That's how I see it. The aluminum frame to coupler connection has a narrower envelope than a steel system would. IMO many overload the WD hitch, and the all-steel nature allows them to get away with it in a way that aluminum frame and the connection to the coupler does, perhaps...not.[/p][p]
[/p][p]How's that for definitive ?
[/p]
[font size="3"]Pinstriper,
While you were out chasing circuit breakers you missed the essence of the coupler problem ;). The coupler itself is not properly applied. It is designed to be welded along its periphery, but it is instead just bolted through the top, since steel can't be welded to aluminum (different melting temperatures). The 4 bolt attachment does not adequately support the coupler. The solution is simple and straightforward: add two bolts to the sides. LL does this exactly on their toy hauler series. [/font][font size="3"]Check the before and after pix in the thread.[/font]
I have the Andersen hitch on my 21BHS. I did not modify the trailer tongue/coupler at all. After almost 6,000 miles, everything is fine, no deformation whatsoever.
Doug
[font size="3"]That probably bears out your observation that the Andersen doesn't do much weight distribution.
[/font]
[quote timestamp="1424053892" source="/post/6838/thread" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]That probably bears out your observation that the Andersen doesn't do much weight distribution.
[/font][/quote]
Correct, and especially with how I have it set up; very little distribution at all. There is certainly more available than I am using; if I really cranked it down. But fortunately, I don't need it, so I have it set for the most comfortable tow.
All of which supports my original assertion that if you use a WD that does any WD at all, it is really easy to go from "not enough" to "too much", without any middle state.
Kinda like liquor...
Well I went back and reviewed all the threads again on the WD and weak coupler. Since our trailer is not scheduled to be delivered until late March, I have asked Sunny Island RV (SI) to contact LL and ask them to put the 28 ft. trailer coupler on our 21 BHS. SI sales indicates to me they have never had a problem with the coupler but will honor my wish. This is the 2 5/16 ball size. I will let you know what LL and SI response is when I get it.
Thanks for all the input and comments; I hope this will end my anxiety regarding WD/coupler issues. I certainly realize from all the informative threads that I still have to be careful properly loading the trailer with the correct balance and tongue weight etc.
Quote from: @monted" source="/post/6863/thread" timestamp="1424125241Well I went back and reviewed all the threads again on the WD and weak coupler. Since our trailer is not scheduled to be delivered until late March, I have asked Sunny Island RV (SI) to contact LL and ask them to put the 28 ft. trailer coupler on our 21 BHS. SI sales indicates to me they have never had a problem with the coupler but will honor my wish. This is the 2 5/16 ball size. I will let you know what LL and SI response is when I get it.
Thanks for all the input and comments; I hope this will end my anxiety regarding WD/coupler issues. I certainly realize from all the informative threads that I still have to be careful properly loading the trailer with the correct balance and tongue weight etc.
Unless they bolt it on differently I don't see how a 2-5/16" would make a difference - all things equal?
Let me clarify: I doubt that the OEM 2" coupler will ever be an issue unless you're going to rely heavily on a WD device to level out your TV/TT combo. So given that rationale, the 2-5/16" should definitely remove all doubt using little or no WD. If you plan to rely on significant WD, you should consider the bolt configuration, vertically and horizontally. LL probably won't help or advise you on that..
Right now (new guy here) I'm considering devising a method to strengthen the OEM coupler regardless of whether I ever use WD or not.
[font size="3"]Having identified this problem and having been through it in detail, I'll make a few points:
[ol type="decimal"][li]The OEM 2" coupler with the OEM 4 bolt attachment will work for no or very limited WD.
[/li][li]The heavier 2-5/16" coupler with the OEM 4 bolt attachment will work with some WD, but not much more. This configuration is untested.
[/li][li]Either coupler with the OEM 4 bolt attachment and two added side bolts will solve the problem.
[/li][li]The 2-5/16" coupler with two added side bolts is probably overkill, but it's a better coupler, works much easier, and adds peace of mind.[/li][/ol][p]
[/p][p]Being an engineer I like margin. The basic problem is the way the OEM coupler is attached, not the coupler itself or the trailer frame size and material.
[/p]
[/font]
I may be visualizing the issue wrong, but...
If it's the top of the hitch that's bending, could not one just have a triangular steel plate cut/fabricated to go on top of the hitch?To kind of "sandwich" the top of the hitch?
Seems like that would prevent the bending I've seen others post pictures of.
Quote from: @fasteddieb" source="/post/6877/thread" timestamp="1424144873I may be visualizing the issue wrong, but...
If it's the top of the hitch that's bending, could not one just have a triangular steel plate cut/fabricated to go on top of the hitch. To kind of "sandwich" the top of the hitch?
Seems like that would prevent the bending I've seen others post pictures of.
[font size="3"]Yes you might be able to do that, but it's lots harder. The plate would have to be pretty thick to avoid bending because you would have to cut out the hole for the jack post[/font] [font size="3"]and the plate would have to extend pretty far forward. Beyond my fabrication capability; drilling to two additional bolt holes is a lot simpler.
[/font]
Quick question regarding drilling the two holes on the side of the steel coupler to add strength; does this void the warranty by LivinLite? This is my main reason to go with the thicker coupler using the 2 5/16 ball.
[quote source="/post/6890/thread" timestamp="1424182183" author="@monted"]Quick question regarding drilling the two holes on the side of the steel coupler to add strength; does this void the warranty by LivinLite? This is my main reason to go with the thicker coupler using the 2 5/16 ball.[/quote][font size="3"]I can't answer the warranty question. I'm not lawyer and LL has their own. Normally a mod does not completely void a warranty. It would only if it can be shown that the mod contributed to a resulting failure. Enter the lawyer full employment clause. But I'll emphasize again, the 2-5/16 coupler by itself is not a complete cure. I'd ask that the coupler, either one, be installed with the side bolts like LL already does on their VRV toy haulers.
[/font]
[quote timestamp="1424184271" source="/post/6892/thread" author="@charliem"][quote timestamp="1424182183" source="/post/6890/thread" author="@monted"]Quick question regarding drilling the two holes on the side of the steel coupler to add strength; does this void the warranty by LivinLite? This is my main reason to go with the thicker coupler using the 2 5/16 ball.[/quote][font size="3"]I can't answer the warranty question. I'm not lawyer and LL has their own. Normally a mod does not completely void a warranty. It would only if it can be shown that the mod contributed to a resulting failure. Enter the lawyer full employment clause. But I'll emphasize again, the 2-5/16 coupler by itself is not a complete cure. I'd ask that the coupler, either one, be installed with the side bolts like LL already does on their VRV toy haulers.
[/font][/quote]Yeah, its more about the geometry of the mounting than the materials. Geometry wins every time. That's why corrugated cardboard works.
I would err on the side that, yes it will definitely void the warranty regarding the coupler and the frame in that area.
I would also be concerned that in the off chance that the modified coupler or frame in that area was ever the suspected cause of an accident - the target of any law suit would be you and not LL.
I haven't checked the dimensions to see if this is a possible fit, but this is what I'm leaning towards:
http://www.wayfair.com/Unified-Marine-Square-U-Bolts-with-Strap-5008973-L851-K~QYM1363.html?refid=GX54800701140-QYM1363_10534811&device=m&ptid=75689840580&PiID%5B%5D=10534811&gclid=Cj0KEQiA6ounBRCq0LKBjKGgysEBEiQAZmpvA1ibvuZ_BXw26VJIzQhljHXbMYLSu6LMZrICAa_CV3IaAtWY8P8HAQ&filter=&curpage=1&sortby=67
[quote source="/post/6894/thread" timestamp="1424185199" author="@pinstriper"]Yeah, its more about the geometry of the mounting than the materials. Geometry wins every time. That's why corrugated cardboard works.
[/quote][font size="3"]What?? Sir, are you implying our CLs are akin to cardboard?? Avast ye, knave! Back to the barn with thee![/font]
[quote source="/post/6900/thread" timestamp="1424186136" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/6894/thread" timestamp="1424185199" author="@pinstriper"]Yeah, its more about the geometry of the mounting than the materials. Geometry wins every time. That's why corrugated cardboard works.
[/quote][font size="3"]What?? Sir, are you implying our CLs are akin to cardboard?? Avast ye, knave! Back to the barn with thee![/font]
[/quote][p]No, I'm suggesting adding a plate in the same plane that's already bending is like using thicker paper, and is less helpful than your lateral bolts.[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/6903/thread" timestamp="1424186389" author="@pinstriper"][quote source="/post/6900/thread" timestamp="1424186136" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]What?? Sir, are you implying our CLs are akin to cardboard?? Avast ye, knave! Back to the barn with thee![/font]
[/quote][p]No, I'm suggesting adding a plate in the same plane that's already bending is like using thicker paper, and is less helpful than your lateral bolts.[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][font size="3"]You are, of course, correct. As for the thicker coupler, it will be stronger than the 2" OEM coupler, but the bolts will add less to this solution than to the 2" coupler. It's due to the longer bolts required to accommodate the jack post location. You almost have to see it to understand it.
As to the lawyer/warranty issues: I'd be in more trouble if I lost steering control due to a lack of required WD. Anything less than a full sized pickup will require some WD. Even a 1/2 ton PU will benefit from some WD. A coupler failure is the last thing I need in a trouble situation. Lawyers can be dealt with if I'm still alive. Of course, an F-250 might solve all my problems ;).
[/font]
And once again, TANSTATMTV. It always comes back to that.
U-Bolts are not the best way to strengthen either the OEM hitch or the heavier hitch for the 28'er. When you tighten them it will deform the metal on the U side. Just use galvanized bolts with big washers under the head and nut with a lock washer also under the nut. Drill the holes close to the diameter of the bolt, so that the bolt will take the load in shear. Use 3/8" or 1/2" galvanized bolts that can be bought at Home Depot, Lowes or some hardware stores.
David
I don't see the square u-bolt assy requiring that much torque, David? My thinking is, the assy would provide a support brace going entirely around the coupler and frame, positioned somewhere in front of the OEM coupler bolts?
[font size="3"]I'll also nix the U-Bolt idea. The extra support is already built into the coupler, but not utilized by LL with their mounting.
David: The shear loading is the only issue I had with the added side bolts. In order to accommodate the existing jack shaft the new coupler leaves 5/8" open space between the coupler and the frame on each side. Much less with the OEM 2" coupler. I filled this with several large flat washers to insure shear rather than bending load on the bolts. Afterthought says a piece of flat bar stock would have been better, but it's done now. The best solution of course would be proper installation at the factory.
Camp on!
[/font]
Yea, not sure the square U-Bolt is a great idea either, but I'm trying to think of some way to wrap support around the coupler and frame without drilling holes through the frame?
[quote source="/post/6913/thread" timestamp="1424199526" author="@surfsup"]Yea, not sure the square U-Bolt is a great idea either, but I'm trying to think of some way to wrap support around the coupler and frame without drilling holes through the frame?[/quote][font size="3"]Surfsup,
Don't be afraid of drilling 1/2" holes in the frame out where you need them. There is essentially zero load out there on the ends and holes in the center (vertically) of a beam do not degrade its strength. The U-Bolts would only shift the single stress point forward. You need to take advantage of the truss structure of the coupler sides (more engineer speak).
[/font]
Did you drill all the way through the frame or just to the inside of the outer surface?
[quote timestamp="1424204440" source="/post/6915/thread" author="@surfsup"]Did you drill all the way through the frame or just to the inside of the outer surface?[/quote][font size="3"]Just through the first surface. Check the pictures on the bent coupler thread. The nuts are inside the rectangular AL tubing. The far side of the tubing is inaccessible due to the jack mounting plates. If you do it yourself start with the coupler firmly attached with the four vertical bolts. Then measure and drill the sides with a 1/4" drill. Work up in steps to 1/2" or whatever size bolt you choose. BTW, the couplers come undrilled from the factory. All drilling is accomplished by LL or you if you start with a new coupler. Further evidence that the coupler manufacturer did not intend bolt mounting. If you do end up starting with an undrilled coupler, let me know. I've learned some tricks, having done two now.
[/font]
Thanks, I did read your thread awhile back, but need to go find it again. I'd certainly have less apprehension only drilling through the frame's outer surface. The smaller the holes, the better.
No engineer here. My background is aviation mechanic and logistics, USN, 36 years... so now I'm looking at rivet data. Perhaps a short horizontal row on both sides along the lower lip? That would be similar to a weld seem. I'll get back on that.
[quote source="/post/6917/thread" timestamp="1424207194" author="@surfsup"]so now I'm looking at rivet data. Perhaps a short horizontal row on both sides along the lower lip? That would be similar to a weld seem. I'll get back on that.
[/quote][font size="3"]Not that familiar with rivet application, but you might have trouble drawing the rivets tight. There will be a space between the inside of the coupler wall and the adjacent outside surface of the frame member. It doesn't fit snug and you don't want the rivets to deform the coupler. But better to think through all options before cutting metal :).[/font]
A row of 4-6 large pop rivets on each side with appropriate washers to fill the gap would work. Use stainless steel cored rivets for best shear strength.
David
I'm thinking the same, but in lieu of washers, cut a sheet of aluminum so I can drill through it at the same time, for a nice tight fit.
[font size="3"]Dang. I may learn something here yet. You're saying the pop rivets will withstand the shear and partial bending stress as well as a 1/2" grade 8 bolt?
[/font]
It's a proven method of seaming metals while using and maximizing metal surface area as part of the strengthening process (without welding). Smaller holes, tighter tolerances, etc. It certainly works well on aircraft... ?
Many folks building experimental aluminum airplanes use aircraft pull rivets in the structure and AN solid rivets in the wing spars. The spars are very strong & light. One of the reasons I purchased a CampLite TT is because I'm prejudice and like aluminum :) airplanes.
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/6916/thread" timestamp="1424205817Quote from: @surfsup" timestamp="1424204440" source="/post/6915/threadDid you drill all the way through the frame or just to the inside of the outer surface?
[font size="3"]Just through the first surface. Check the pictures on the bent coupler thread.
[/font]
Here's the bent coupler thread, trying to help! :)
http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs
[quote timestamp="1424214261" source="/post/6921/thread" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Dang. I may learn something here yet. You're saying the pop rivets will withstand the shear and partial bending stress as well as a 1/2" grade 8 bolt?
[/font][/quote][p]Charlie:[/p][p]
[/p][p]Yep, I think that four 3/16" stainless cored pop rivets would have the shear strength of one 1/2" grade 8 bolt. The stainless core pop rivets require a relatively high "squeeze force" to pop them, and you can't do it with a hand tool. And since 4 squeeze points spreads out the contact area I'll bet the shear strength is about the same as one 1/2" bolt.[/p][p]
[/p][p]But I think for us non aircraft guys, a bolt is the easy way to do it.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p]
[font size="3"]Thanks David,
I'm familiar with rivets in structural steel, aircraft, railroad, boiler, and even Air Stream RV construction. However I associate these with solid core rivets securing two overlapping surfaces in direct contact. For this coupler application pop rivets are proposed and the surfaces are not in direct contact. Intuitively it gives me cause to pause, but I'm here to learn. Bolts seem easier, more reworkable, and a lot more verifiable. That said, however, maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks. Just don't move my food bowl >:D.
[/font]
[quote source="/post/752/thread" timestamp="1398782087" author="@djsamuel"]Ken,
Thanks for the post. I didn't think it was too long of a post. The detail really helped.
I have the 21BHS and am towing with a Ram 1500. I towed it some without a weight distribution hitch. When I would lower the trailer onto the hitch, the Ram would only squat 1.5 - 2 inches; and would still sit nice and level. Towing without a WDH was really nice (black and grey tanks empty, and water tank 1/2 full). But, although I didn't experience any sway, I wanted some sway control before taking on any long trips. So, I opted for the Andersen WDH for a couple of reasons. The strengths of the andersen hitch are sway control and bounce control. It does distribute weight, but that is not it's strongest point. Since weight distribution was not a big need, and I did experience some bouncing when driving over small bridges, etc., I figured it would fit the bill. Also, the hitch just clamps on, and is light. So I installed the hitch and tightened up the chains to raise the rear of the truck about an inch, and took it out for a drive. It towed fine, but felt very stiff. I did not like the feel at all. So on my return trip, I set the chain tension to about half of what I had initially. That seemed to dial it right in. Now it tows great, is not distributing much weight since the truck's rear is not raising much when I tighten the chains, so I am not putting a lot of force on the frame. Now, I have great sway control, and it stops the bouncing, which is a nice plus for me.
So if it still doesn't feel quite right, try reducing the weight distribution further, but still utilize the sway control capabilities of the hitch. The 21BHS with the F-150 shouldn't require much in the weight distribution department. I know it doesn't with my Ram 1500.
Doug
[/quote]Doug, which Andersen hitch did you wind up getting? [a href="http://tweetys.com/andersen-no-sway-weight-distribution-hitches.aspx"][a href="http://tweetys.com/andersen-no-sway-weight-distribution-hitches.aspx"]link to various Andersen models[/a][/a]
Quote from: @surfsup" source="/post/7101/thread" timestamp="1424699281[quote source="/post/752/thread" timestamp="1398782087" author="@djsamuel"]Ken,
Thanks for the post. I didn't think it was too long of a post. The detail really helped.
I have the 21BHS and am towing with a Ram 1500. I towed it some without a weight distribution hitch. When I would lower the trailer onto the hitch, the Ram would only squat 1.5 - 2 inches; and would still sit nice and level. Towing without a WDH was really nice (black and grey tanks empty, and water tank 1/2 full). But, although I didn't experience any sway, I wanted some sway control before taking on any long trips. So, I opted for the Andersen WDH for a couple of reasons. The strengths of the andersen hitch are sway control and bounce control. It does distribute weight, but that is not it's strongest point. Since weight distribution was not a big need, and I did experience some bouncing when driving over small bridges, etc., I figured it would fit the bill. Also, the hitch just clamps on, and is light. So I installed the hitch and tightened up the chains to raise the rear of the truck about an inch, and took it out for a drive. It towed fine, but felt very stiff. I did not like the feel at all. So on my return trip, I set the chain tension to about half of what I had initially. That seemed to dial it right in. Now it tows great, is not distributing much weight since the truck's rear is not raising much when I tighten the chains, so I am not putting a lot of force on the frame. Now, I have great sway control, and it stops the bouncing, which is a nice plus for me.
So if it still doesn't feel quite right, try reducing the weight distribution further, but still utilize the sway control capabilities of the hitch. The 21BHS with the F-150 shouldn't require much in the weight distribution department. I know it doesn't with my Ram 1500.
Doug
Doug, which Andersen hitch did you wind up getting? [a href="http://tweetys.com/andersen-no-sway-weight-distribution-hitches.aspx"][a href="http://tweetys.com/andersen-no-sway-weight-distribution-hitches.aspx"]link to various Andersen models[/a][/a]
[/quote]
I got the 3380 model, 2" ball, universal bracket. I ordered the 4" bracket but received the universal setup, but it works great.
http://tweetys.com/no-sway-weight-distribution-hitch-4-drop-rise-2-ball-5-6-brackets-3324-1.aspx
Thanks. Once this hitch is dialed in, as I understand, you have to slack off the adjustment a few turns to disconnect the trailer and return to that same setting when you reconnect, right? Have you had any issues with that and/or the chain plate getting cocked?
Quote from: @surfsup" source="/post/7113/thread" timestamp="1424732124Thanks. Once this hitch is dialed in, as I understand, you have to slack off the adjustment a few turns to disconnect the trailer and return to that same setting when you reconnect, right? Have you had any issues with that and/or the chain plate getting cocked?
It is very easy. I just count the number of turns of the nut to provides the right tension. When I hook up, I lower tbe trailer onto the ball until it is seated and I can close the latch. I do not lower it any more. I then attach the brackets and hand tighten the nuts on both sides. I tighten the nuts the amount that gives me the best feel (in my case, three full turns on each side). Then I fully lower the trailer onto the truck. Once I want to unhook the trailer, I raise the trailer until the hitch is right on the ball. Then I loosen the nuts and remove the bracket and fully unhook the trailer.
Thanks a bunch DJ... I've watched several YouTube videos of this hitch and still haven't found one that shows the actual day to day process of connection/disconnection. What you described is what I assumed based on my understanding of the hitch's 'new installation' procedure. There's also [a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_QTxnJVN8"]this video[/a] on how to straighten the triangle plate, has this been an issue with yours?
[quote source="/post/7195/thread" timestamp="1424880655" author="@surfsup"]Thanks a bunch DJ... I've watched several YouTube videos of this hitch and still haven't found one that shows the actual day to day process of connection/disconnection. What you described is what I assumed based on my understanding of the hitch's 'new installation' procedure. There's also [a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_QTxnJVN8"]this video[/a] on how to straighten the triangle plate, has this been an issue with yours?[/quote]No, straightening the triangle plate isn't a problem. The only time it was even an issue is when I hooked up with the truck not straight to the trailer. I've learned to make sure the truck/camper are straight when I unhook and hook up. Since then, it hasn't even been an issue at all. The first time it happened, I simply tightened up on one chain to turn the traingle plate. The second time, I repositioned the truck. After a couple of times, you don't even really think about it.
Doug
10.4, thanks again!
What do you guys think about this electronic sway control?
http://www.direclink.com/swaycontrol.html
[quote source="/post/7201/thread" timestamp="1424903909" author="@cadman70454"]What do you guys think about this electronic sway control?
http://www.direclink.com/swaycontrol.html[/quote]Looks like Dexter is coming out with the same system:
[a href="http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/Dexter_Launches_Dexter_Sway_Control_press_release.pdf"]Press Release
[a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bf8ImtKqshw?rel=0"]Video[/a][/a]
My initial reaction is that electronic sway control needs to be trailer/TV specific to work properly. If there is way to customize the algorithm for your setup, maybe it would work? Great concept; I'm not sure a one size fits all approach works for this application.
[quote timestamp="1424907752" source="/post/7202/thread" author="@djsamuel"]
Quote from: @cadman70454" source="/post/7201/thread" timestamp="1424903909What do you guys think about this electronic sway control?
http://www.direclink.com/swaycontrol.html
Looks like Dexter is coming out with the same system:
[a href="http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/Dexter_Launches_Dexter_Sway_Control_press_release.pdf"]Press Release
[a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bf8ImtKqshw?rel=0"]Video[/a][/a][/quote]To be honest both systems looks to be the same one (dexter and direct link), anyway they use almost the same wording.
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f/product_flyers/Sway_Control.pdf
[quote source="/post/7219/thread" timestamp="1424959304" author="@paul"][quote source="/post/7202/thread" timestamp="1424907752" author="@djsamuel"]Looks like Dexter is coming out with the same system:
[a href="http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/Dexter_Launches_Dexter_Sway_Control_press_release.pdf"]Press Release
[a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bf8ImtKqshw?rel=0"]Video[/a][/a][/quote]To be honest both systems looks to be the same one (dexter and direct link), anyway they use almost the same wording.
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f/product_flyers/Sway_Control.pdf
[/quote]I was thinking the same thing. I know direct link was first, and I'm assuming Dexter licensed it from them.
It sounds like a neat idea. I looked for installation instructions on the website and couldn't find it. Presumably it mounts in the trailer and has an accelerometer that senses yaw in the trailer. It probably is powered from the trailer's battery system and applies left or right brakes to correct a yaw. The TV's brake output is presumably applied in parallel with the left/right yaw correction.
David
The electric brakes operate as normal. The unit is mounted in the trailer and has inertial detection capability to determine which side to apply the brakes. The video link on the website shows a test. They induce trailer sway with 0 tongue weight and swerving. It seems to be seamless and works well in the test.
Check out this ALKO video [a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yfis8Ch06M"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yfis8Ch06M[/a] I also found a website which listed the price at $549. [a href="http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=5893&SEName=tsc1000-tuson-electric-sway-control"]http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=5893&SEName=tsc1000-tuson-electric-sway-control[/a] Also, Dexter bought ALKO's North American Operations last year. This website also has the installation manual.
Quote from: @surfsup" source="/post/6156/thread" timestamp="1421896779[quote source="/post/759/thread" timestamp="1398788435" author="@djsamuel"]You can view a video that provides a good description of the Andersen Hitch here:
that is a pretty slick product... should I need one, I'll definitely consider it!
[/quote]
With the upcoming cross-country trip, I've decided it'd be safer to have some antisway with my combo. Don't really need any WD, but would be nice to have a little available just in case. Just ordered the Andersen 3343.
****DO NOT ORDER THE 3343***
The 4-3/8" frame brackets are too long. If you decide to get an Andersen, you will need the universal brackets for our aluminum frames. Mine are going back to Tweety's tomorrow.
Edit 4/14... got on the phone yesterday with Andersen and Tweety's - we've all agreed to swap my brackets for universal brackets.
I am VERY interested in an anti sway setup like the Andersen mentioned in this thread, but I have one nagging question....
I intend to find a commercial scale to determine my tongue weight.
After installing a rear bumper bike rack, I may discover that I am tongue weight shy. HOW DO YOU ADD TONGUE WEIGHT??????
One day, I MIGHT install a generator over the hitch, but there are LOTS of stuff on the wish list ahead of that.
What do you do to add tongue weight???
Thanks, guys. Happy Trails........
[quote source="/post/7751/thread" timestamp="1426207541" author="@gleamb"]I am VERY interested in an anti sway setup like the Andersen mentioned in this thread, but I have one nagging question....
I intend to find a commercial scale to determine my tongue weight.
After installing a rear bumper bike rack, I may discover that I am tongue weight shy. HOW DO YOU ADD TONGUE WEIGHT??????
One day, I MIGHT install a generator over the hitch, but there are LOTS of stuff on the wish list ahead of that.
What do you do to add tongue weight???
Thanks, guys. Happy Trails........[/quote][font size="3"]Keep in mind the ratio of rear bumper weight to tongue weight on the 21 is about 2:1. That is 10# added to the bumper will only subtract 5# from the tongue. The first things you put on the tongue are two 20# propane tanks and two six volt GC2 batteries. My 21RBS with these items on the tongue and two bicycles with rack on the bumper presents a tongue weight of 525#.
[/font]
One of the thoughts that attracts me to the AWDH is the memory of my maiden voyage coupler problem and the thought, right or wrong, that the Andersen's mechanics would tend to lock the coupler onto the ball and keep it there via chain tension even if the coupler was buggered somehow.
I dunno if that holds any water, but it's in my mind. Whether it reduces sway or to what degree is secondary. And of course I'm not pulling anything heavy enough, nor near enough to spec limits, to really care a whit about actual weight distribution (at which the AWDH is marginal anyway - or is it anyhoo ? These grammar things can mess you up if you overthink them).
[quote source="/post/7751/thread" timestamp="1426207541" author="@gleamb"]I am VERY interested in an anti sway setup like the Andersen mentioned in this thread, but I have one nagging question....
I intend to find a commercial scale to determine my tongue weight.
After installing a rear bumper bike rack, I may discover that I am tongue weight shy. HOW DO YOU ADD TONGUE WEIGHT??????
One day, I MIGHT install a generator over the hitch, but there are LOTS of stuff on the wish list ahead of that.
What do you do to add tongue weight???
Thanks, guys. Happy Trails........[/quote]The first step of the Andersen install is setting up the TT coupler and TV hitch properly - which you have to start with a perfectly level TT - the end result (correct ball height) is getting the front of the TT 1" - 1.5" lower than the rear of the TT with full TT weight on the TV. I set my ball height to get 1.5" drop and could have set it to drop much much lower. Once you get that set, then you begin to install the chains and brackets - which is where I discovered I had the wrong kit (above post).
I said all that to say this - I plan to travel with my Honda EU3000i generator mounted on the back (I have the "deck" model) - so I mounted it before trying to install the Andersen to make sure it's weight was calculated into the set up. It was very obvious from the above process that the front end of my CL is significantly heavier that the back. Also, before installing my Honda (172# fueled up) I measured from ground to rear bumper before and after - the bumper only dropped 1/8" from the added weight. Last and most importantly, I did not notice any change at all in how the CL towed - with or without.
I just had an Andersen delivered to my door after reading this thread and a gazillion others it seems. I have read that some people have had their brackets slide and used a bolt of some sort instead of the set screw ( after drilling a hole).
Has anybody done this or has it been a problem? I will be installing the hitch when I am back in town and I am also wondering if the recommended 90 lbs of torque on the bolts on the brackets is too much for the aluminum frame and did everybody use the set screws or actual bolts.
Any thoughts?
I am also thinking of adding the 1/2 inch bolts to the trailer hitch like charliem did to be on the safe side.
Thanks!
Finally got the hitch set up and fine tuned today. Loaded up the CL, full fresh tank, etc and went for a long ride and I really like the improvement. Porpoising and bounce is basically gone and the truck/trailer combo feels real tight with sudden side to side maneuvers. Not much wind today here, and still haven't seen any action around tractor trailers yet, but I'm sure it's gonna help a lot.
I'll keep an eye on the measurements to see if there is any slippage..
Quote from: @gleamb" source="/post/7751/thread" timestamp="1426207541I am VERY interested in an anti sway setup like the Andersen mentioned in this thread, but I have one nagging question....
I intend to find a commercial scale to determine my tongue weight.
After installing a rear bumper bike rack, I may discover that I am tongue weight shy. HOW DO YOU ADD TONGUE WEIGHT??????
One day, I MIGHT install a generator over the hitch, but there are LOTS of stuff on the wish list ahead of that.
What do you do to add tongue weight???
Thanks, guys. Happy Trails........
I am new to RVing, and I thought one of the more experienced RVers would answer this question. This is what I understand: The wheels/axles act as a fulcrum. Items that are stored in your camper that are in front of the wheels/axles increase tongue weight. Moving items to a position behind the wheels/axles can reduce the tongue weight. Heavier items, such as canned foods, should be placed in the camper as low as possible. The kitchen storage is close to the axles.
I have read in some RV books that it is also important to balance the weight side to side.
Thanks surfsup, I appreciate it. Did you torque the brackets all the way to 90 lbs?
As good a place as any for this...
To review, our Flex has a maximum tongue weight of 450 lbs. The 21BHS listed 440 lbs tongue weight, but ours weighed almost 630 lbs loaded normally.
With about 4,500 lbs loaded weight, 450 lbs would be a nice goal, 10%, even with our reinforced hitch.
I was thinking about moving the spare tire rearwards. It's now pretty far forward, underneath and kind of near the entry door. I looked and there's no room under the trailer in the rear due to the waste storage tanks.
But I started thinking about mounting it on the back - that would be a fairly heavy item moved as far as possible to the rear.
Just so happens we are visiting a friend in Malabar who has an older travel trailer. Guess what?
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7599/16886266471_813efae615_z.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7599/16861350356_2ab3db5906_z.jpg)Bear in mind, the rig seems to tow great - just concerned about being so far over Ford's recommendation.
Quote from: @nd1979" source="/post/8277/thread" timestamp="1426973693Thanks surfsup, I appreciate it. Did you torque the brackets all the way to 90 lbs?
ND, yep I torqued to 90 with no issues. I also installed the set screw and followed the 1.5 turns past hand tight. Aluminum frame is plenty tough for setting up these brackets. I'm not concerned about installing the coupler bolts with the Andersen because it doesn't pry downward like a typical trunion WDH.
Thanks surfsup, I plan on installing mine tomorrow. You make a good point on the side bolts, It makes a lot of sense, so I am going to hold off on those.
[quote timestamp="1426825449" author="@nd1979" source="/post/8187/thread"]I just had an Andersen delivered to my door after reading this thread and a gazillion others it seems. I have read that some people have had their brackets slide and used a bolt of some sort instead of the set screw ( after drilling a hole).
Has anybody done this or has it been a problem? I will be installing the hitch when I am back in town and I am also wondering if the recommended 90 lbs of torque on the bolts on the brackets is too much for the aluminum frame and did everybody use the set screws or actual bolts.
Any thoughts?
I am also thinking of adding the 1/2 inch bolts to the trailer hitch like charliem did to be on the safe side.
Thanks![/quote]I just used the setscrew on my installation. After over 5,000 miles, no slippage at all. Just be sure to tighten the brackets with them already positions at the angle they would be if "pulled forward" under chain tension. I believe the instructions mention this. Worked great for me.
ND, Fyi, I had a location issue with the brackets but instead of moving my tanks, I lengthened the chains. Took about 8" more chain.
[quote timestamp="1426992908" author="@surfsup" source="/post/8294/thread"]ND, Fyi, I had a slight fit with the brackets but instead of moving my tanks, I lengthened the chains. Took about 8" more chain.
[/quote]Same here. I didn't need to lengthen 8", but still lengthened them to clear the tanks. Andersen said that was fine.
Yep, you can only remove 3 links. However, I called Andersen and they said you could add @ 24", which is way more than is needed on the CLs. Mine didn't require 8" either, but at that location they were much easier to work with.
Thanks djsamuel, I really appreciate it. It sounds like with the proper installation, as you stated, it should be just fine. I have towed the TT twice now, without problems but I just want the extra margin of safety that many suggest with a WD and the Anderson seems the way for me to go.
I was typing and just saw both of your replies about the need for more chain. A big thanks, as I don't want to relocate the tanks either.
Quote from: @fasteddieb" source="/post/8283/thread" timestamp="1426981035As good a place as any for this...
To review, our Flex has a maximum tongue weight of 450 lbs. The 21BHS listed 440 lbs tongue weight, but ours weighed almost 630 lbs loaded normally.
With about 4,500 lbs loaded weight, 450 lbs would be a nice goal, 10%, even with our reinforced hitch.
I was thinking about moving the spare tire rearwards. It's now pretty far forward, underneath and kind of near the entry door. I looked and there's no room under the trailer in the rear due to the waste storage tanks.
But I started thinking about mounting it on the back - that would be a fairly heavy item moved as far as possible to the rear.
Just so happens we are visiting a friend in Malabar who has an older travel trailer. Guess what?
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7599/16886266471_813efae615_z.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7599/16861350356_2ab3db5906_z.jpg"]
What do you think? Cosmetically with a cover we think it would look fine. Is there appropriate structure that could hold that sort of weight cinched in tight to the trailer? Some of the weight could rest on the bumper, if that would help. Just wondering.
Bear in mind, the rig seems to tow great - just concerned about being so far over Ford's recommendation.
I like fasteddie's idea about moving the spare tire to the back bumper. Does anyone know the weight of the tire?
[quote source="/post/8283/thread" timestamp="1426981035" author="@fasteddieb"]
I was thinking about moving the spare tire rearwards. It's now pretty far forward, underneath and kind of near the entry door. I looked and there's no room under the trailer in the rear due to the waste storage tanks.
[/quote][font size="3"]Eddie,
Some thoughts on moving your spare:
For lack of better data let's assume the present tire location is half way between the axles and the ball, and the tire/wheel weighs 40#. Removing the tire will lighten the tongue by 20#. Hanging the tire on the rear bumper will lighten the tongue an additional 20# for a total of 40#. Is that worth it? Maybe it is. It certainly would be easier to get to the tire than the present location.
I don't think there is any structure strong enough in that back wall. It's all 1"x1" tubing. Not much to hang a bouncing 40# tire. Maybe you can conjure some mount that would tie to the bumper and get the tire CG close in over the bumper. Don't know what that might look like.
[/font]
[quote source="/post/8283/thread" author="@fasteddieb" timestamp="1426981035"]
What do you think? Cosmetically with a cover we think it would look fine. Is there appropriate structure that could hold that sort of weight cinched in tight to the trailer? Some of the weight could rest on the bumper, if that would help. Just wondering.
Bear in mind, the rig seems to tow great - just concerned about being so far over Ford's recommendation.[/quote]
I can't see why something like [a href="http://www.awdirect.com/spare-tire-carrier/website_exclusive/?gclid=CjwKEAjw876oBRCYr86w6KGfpkgSJAACIidwXVg0SvbrkDXqi_kUwzuUtzErBq-GzFk-hfuHjBqZ1hoCshPw_wcB&epc=AWSEPLA&CID=AWSEPLA&ef_id=VIJIPwAAATl1sbve:20150323163907:s"]this[/a] or [a href="http://www.ruralking.com/universal-rv-tire-carrier.html?fee=2&fep=83743&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CjwKEAjw876oBRCYr86w6KGfpkgSJAACIidwzRc3GhalAp3-pN1SW0wBWlTc9zQ2aYNCOndsx-MLnRoCAFrw_wcB"]this[/a] on the rear bumper wouldn't work just fine?
Thanks, Charlie!
Since I'm technically in an overloaded conditon, lightening up by 60 lbs would be a nontrivial step in the right direction.
Thanks Surfsup,
But have not some questioned the load-carrying ability of the bumper? Though I admit it sure gives the appearance of being strong enough to support 40 lb, especially if cinched in tight.
[quote source="/post/8370/thread" timestamp="1427200372" author="@fasteddieb"]Thanks, Charlie!
Since I'm technically in an overloaded conditon, lightening up by 60 lbs would be a nontrivial step in the right direction.
Thanks Surfsup,
But have not some questioned the load-carrying ability of the bumper? Though I admit it sure gives the appearance of being strong enough to support 40 lb, especially if cinched in tight. [/quote][font size="3"]Eddie,
The reduction would actually be 40#, not 60#, but that may still be worth it to you. As far as the strength of the bumper goes, LL won't say much. I feel it would take the spare, but I can' prove or disprove it with numbers. It all depends on the welds. I'd be inclined to try it with a mount that minimized the moment arm (torque) on the bumper. If something did fail it's unlikely that all the welds would fail at the same time. More likely you'd see some fatigue cracks develop over time so keep a sharp eye on the welds after each trip, especially if you go over rough roads. Good luck and safe travels.
[/font]
Quote from: @fasteddieb" source="/post/8370/thread" timestamp="1427200372
Thanks Surfsup, But have not some questioned the load-carrying ability of the bumper? Though I admit it sure gives the appearance of being strong enough to support 40 lb, especially if cinched in tight.
Mine has the deck out back, so I don't know what the stock bumper is like. The bumper on the deck model is plenty strong for a spare tire carrier, definitely stronger than trying to bolt it to a wall stud..
Hello,
We have been out several times with our new trailer and today finally we installed our Anderson WDH. Towing with out the WDH was fine but but there was definitely some bounce and minor sway. Increased level of wind really affected the quality of the ride, not to fun.
Living in southern Alberta we have very high winds. There is a particular highway that is known to have extreme winds! Well, today was one of them.
Install was about an hour and we had no major issues, but I did have to add 6" of chain to clear the propane tanks.
Pulling out of our spot we noticed an immediate difference. The ride quality was great, no bounce at all, even on some rough gravel roads. I am certain that today would have been a White Knuckle ride due to the sustained wind and high wind gusts. The Anderson WDH was perfect! I really could not believe the difference. In perfect driving conditions you may not notice much difference, but when conditions deteriorate that is when you will notice.
A big thank you to all the other members who have taken the time to share their experiences with their own Anderson hitch. My wife and I greatly appreciate it!
D and L
Installed the Andersen in an hour, excellent time Canuck! Now that I've done it once, I could probably install the next one in an hour?
I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on an Anderson hitch; I'm a little confused as to exactly what model to buy for my 13QBB, any guidance?
[quote source="/post/8654/thread" timestamp="1427727290" author="@mitch"]I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on an Anderson hitch; I'm a little confused as to exactly what model to buy for my 13QBB, any guidance?[/quote]Definitely get "universal" brackets if your Popup has the 4" aluminum frame... not sure if you'll need the 4" or 8" drop rise? Most autos, SUVs and even half ton trucks (not all jacked up) use the 4". Call Andersen - they are really REALLY great folks to deal with. My guess is [a href="http://tweetys.com/no-sway-weight-distribution-hitch-4-drop-rise-2-ball-5-6-brackets-3324.aspx"]this[/a] is the one you'll want?
[quote source="/post/8673/thread" timestamp="1427762397" author="@surfsup"][quote source="/post/8654/thread" timestamp="1427727290" author="@mitch"]I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on an Anderson hitch; I'm a little confused as to exactly what model to buy for my 13QBB, any guidance?[/quote]Definitely get "universal" brackets if your Popup has the 4" aluminum frame... not sure if you'll need the 4" or 8" drop rise? Most autos, SUVs and even half ton trucks (not all jacked up) use the 4". Call Andersen - they are really REALLY great folks to deal with. My guess is [a href="http://tweetys.com/no-sway-weight-distribution-hitch-4-drop-rise-2-ball-5-6-brackets-3324.aspx"]this[/a] is the one you'll want?
[/quote]Thanks, I'll give them a call
[quote source="/post/8654/thread" timestamp="1427727290" author="@mitch"]I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on an Anderson hitch; I'm a little confused as to exactly what model to buy for my 13QBB, any guidance?[/quote]Called today and to update for the record, Anderson said model 3324 is the model for me.
[quote source="/post/8994/thread" timestamp="1428450597" author="@mitch"][quote source="/post/8654/thread" timestamp="1427727290" author="@mitch"]I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on an Anderson hitch; I'm a little confused as to exactly what model to buy for my 13QBB, any guidance?[/quote]Called today and to update for the record, Anderson said model 3324 is the model for me. [/quote]You will love the Andersen. Great hitch, and a great company to do business with. They made a custom plate for me for free because my stock plate was rubbing on the bottom of my 8" frame. I've probably towed over 5k miles with mine and love it.
We're a little over 2000 miles into our very windy trip and the Andersen has been the star of the show for most of it.
surfsup
what model did you buy for your you 21 rbs?
I want one too!!
Quote from: @gleamb" source="/post/9055/thread" timestamp="1428611581surfsup
what model did you buy for your you 21 rbs?
I want one too!!
3324
I've just installed my 3324 on the 16 TBS. I needed to add 3 links to each side to locate the universal brackets behind the propane tanks. A question for those experienced with this hitch - how does the tension on the chain impact towing? It seems that it primarily impacts bounce and that tighter chains would reduce bounce and not have much effect on sway control. Can anyone chime in on this? I'm trying to figure out just how tight to get the chains - being mindful of the aluminum frame I don't want to overdo it
[quote timestamp="1429305455" author="@nmken" source="/post/9529/thread"]I've just installed my 3324 on the 16 TBS. I needed to add 3 links to each side to locate the universal brackets behind the propane tanks. A question for those experienced with this hitch - how does the tension on the chain impact towing? It seems that it primarily impacts bounce and that tighter chains would reduce bounce and not have much effect on sway control. Can anyone chime in on this? I'm trying to figure out just how tight to get the chains - being mindful of the aluminum frame I don't want to overdo it[/quote]Perfect timing for this question. I just drove down to Galveston for a long weekend just to try out the Anderson hitch. There is a tall bridge to the island that was where I experienced the most sway due to wind. I have a 21RBS.
This time, with the Anderson hitch, there was no sway at all. I have the bushings squished 1/4 in and that seems to be the sweet spot for me. I used my Sherwood tongue guage and I was running an even 600 lbs of tongue weight, before the Anderson was hitched up.
I measured the front end at the wheel well and after the hitch was all set, it lowered the same mesurement by 1/2 inch, so I know that I should have some weight distribution too. I don't know how much was transferred though as I did not go by any scales.
I hope this helps.
Quote from: @nmken" timestamp="1429305455" source="/post/9529/threadI've just installed my 3324 on the 16 TBS. I needed to add 3 links to each side to locate the universal brackets behind the propane tanks. A question for those experienced with this hitch - how does the tension on the chain impact towing? It seems that it primarily impacts bounce and that tighter chains would reduce bounce and not have much effect on sway control. Can anyone chime in on this? I'm trying to figure out just how tight to get the chains - being mindful of the aluminum frame I don't want to overdo it
When I set the chains I was not concerned about weight distribution since my Ram 1500 has no problem with my trailer. I was searching for the best tow. The procedure I follow involves lowering the trailer down onto the ball until it is fully seated but not pushing the truck down at all. Then, after verifying the triangular plate is in the proper position (perpendicular to the axis of the trailer),I tighten both nuts as tight as I can by hand, and then use the wrench to tighten each side three additional turns. That is my best spot. I found if they are too loose, there isn't much change in any bouncing, but if they are too tight, the whole rig feels too stiff.
I also just finished up the install of an Anderson hitch, it's really not very difficult. Prior to installation my truck would squat about 1.5 inches, after installation, with the Anderson at 4 threads showing I dropped .5 inches. Took it for a spin around the neighborhood and it did seem more like a combined unit rather then 2 different vehicles that were connected. It wasn't a real test but I think it will be noticeable and really go a long way towards removing any towing concerns.
While I was out I adjusted my brake controller and that didn't work out exactly as I expected. It's certainly applying braking power but I could not get the trailer wheels to lock up even with the power setting on the controller at 8.5. Since the instructions say to set at 6 and see if the wheels lock I'm a bit confused as to why 8 won't do it. The controller is a Prodigy P2 and I could set it as high as 13 but that seemed like a bit much. Any thoughts on this?
[font size="3"]Mitch,
I was never able to lock my wheels on dry pavement. I don't think the trailer brakes are really designed for that much braking. They will lock on gravel. As long as you can feel them pulling you back they should be good.
[/font]
Then I'm good, thanks Charlie.
Sharing my thoughts on the Anderson Hitch - Simply Incredible! Sway has been eliminated, truck passings and wind gusts are no longer an event at all and I can drive relaxed one handed again. Sway was my biggest concern so did not really torque down the chains, just 1 turn past hand tight works well for me (16 TBS) - YMMV. While I've only had this hitch out once so far I also noted an improvement in gas mileage - has anyone else seen this?
Just finished setting up the ez2 round bar hitch that I had but needed to setup with the new tow vehicle, and what a difference. Was able to get the 2 side bolts in (and without much difficulty). A short drive in some very windy conditions we no problem, the trailer was rock solid.
Just one of the many weekend "Mods".
I am going to order my Anderson WDS and take it with me in June when I pick-up our 21bhs. I'll have SIRV install it for me but have 1 question you all may be able to help me with. Anderson has a universal frame model 3324 that fits 3, 4 and 6" frames and a 4 3/8" frame model 3343. I believe the frame on the 21 is 4" and was planning to buy the 3343. Is my assumption right or should I go with the universal frame model?
If the frame is 4" I'd go with the Universal, you wouldn't need the extra 3/8ths. I just installed the 3324 on my 13QBB which has a 3" frame and the Universal fits perfectly.
[font size="3"]The frame on the 21s is 4". The 4-3/8 unit should work fine. The "extra" 3/8 is just to allow ease of installation and also probably exists on the nominal 3,4,6 clamps. [/font][font size="3"]The universal clamp will also work and would allow you to move it to a smaller or larger trailer in the future if you envision that. [/font][font size="3"]Several members, including djsamuel have installed the Anderson with good success.
[/font]
Thanks for the info. This will be my second LL and don't plan to buy anything else. I'll go with the 3324 and universal brackets just to play it safe. Would hate to get there and something not fit.
Quote from: @ammobob" source="/post/10130/thread" timestamp="1430318962Thanks for the info. This will be my second LL and don't plan to buy anything else. I'll go with the 3324 and universal brackets just to play it safe. Would hate to get there and something not fit.
I learned the hard way. The 4" , brackets will NOT work. So you made the right move!
The universal brackets worked great for me.
Was going to try out my new Andersen hitch this weekend, but they sent me a 2 5/16" ball and not the 2". Oh well, test drive will have to wait.
Quote from: @gleamb" source="/post/10219/thread" timestamp="1430495490Was going to try out my new Andersen hitch this weekend, but they sent me a 2 5/16" ball and not the 2". Oh well, test drive will have to wait.
Bummer
I'm headed out next week from WA state to pickup my new 21BHS at Sunny Island RV in IL! Ordered it in Jan. and livin lite just shipped to dealer two days ago. After speaking with Jeff at Sunny Island about the Andersen WDH, he let me know they keep a pallet of them at the dealer. Seems to be almost standard gear with new 21's he sells. I'll weigh-in with pictures and my towing experience on my trip back to WA! Thanks for posting everyone! I'm looking forward to finally sharing on this forum vice just reading. Have learned a lot hawking everyone's posts!
6000 + miles on this first cross country trip and am now totally committed to my Andersen!
Quote from: @kenofchattanooga" source="/post/749/thread" timestamp="1398772335I want to open a thread on this matter. These are observations, more than questions, but please chime in. I think a pleasant ride to and from your destination is golden and paramount.
Sorry for the very very long post, but when all said and done we can refer people back here on this topic. Ill even later shrink it:)
I had to make a quick trip to NC from TN and instead of flying I decided to just tow the 21BHS with F150 there on Friday, and back on Sunday. I've said to myself it's hard to learn everything about the trailer without camping and it's hard to learn all the aspects of Sway, Distribution, and Tongue weight without a "good road trip".
Destination - Chattanooga TN to Greensboro NC
via 75N and i40E
380 mile one way.
If you know the route, you know its not 100% easy starting 10 miles before border traveling 40 east. You must keep your eye on the road 200% of the time on many spots, a second could make the difference, especially during the 30 mile stretch that includes the border and the descent from Black Mount (2-3% downhill, 6 miles)
1) After 100 miles near Knoxville heading East, I stopped and tweaked the brackets on my 4 point equalizer hitch to help with sway, but I said why not call Livin Lite also just to get their opinion on WDHs and sway bars. I spoke with whoever answered the phone in Service/Parts/Warranty – I think option 3 or 4
His words verbatim,
"Well we really don't get into Weight Distr. hitches or any of that. As you are torqueing the tongue, and as you know steel is stronger than aluminum and that could bend the frame. Those 4 points where they reference includes where the frame could bend."
I continued to say I just felt I should have a better ride, with the lightweight and my pulling power per se.
However after he told me this I did later undo the adjustment as I feel I was over torqueing to get that ride I had with my previous Resse pro hitch with chains. I was a bit nervous so again I undid these, just being honest.
He did add it was ok to use the hitch for sway, as long as I'm not torqueing the frame. Ok fair enough.
2) I also needed to fill up with gas; I think I was very low from not filling up earlier. I have a 26-gallon tank. So at 6 lbs. per gallon, I added about 22 gallons or 132 lbs.
Voila, I get back on the highway and I am now driving the smoothest truck and trailer thus far from my all my drive test. It's not as perfect as I feel – I still want better sway control, but it was noticeably different in a good way. I undid my bracket changes, so the only variance was 132 lbs of fuel.
3) This then takes me back to a conversation I had with a gentleman at my RV storage lot. I mentioned how I felt I should tow better, He said mentions a tongue weight scale he has and he makes sure he is at the 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight. He said once he got his tongue weight correct he didn't need any equipment for WDH or SWAY. He doesn't own any. He tows a commercial V nose trailer that when loaded is 8K lbs. So he has figure out how to have 800 to 1000lbs upfront.
4) This also takes me back to the 1st time I cleaned out grey and black tanks. Unbeknownst to me they were full from the dealership, I had towed it home 100 miles. And went camping 2 nights not using plumbing.
I don't know how full they were, but they dumped with full force for a good amount of time. Now to do some math, using 8 lbs per gallon,
If black is full, that's 224 lbs
If grey is full, that's 256 lbs
These two alone are 480 lbs
If Fresh water were full, that's another 244 lbs.
I assume my fresh water is empty, I'm not really sure to be honest.
A total of up to 724 lbs could be added, whatever the weight is, it's not on the tongue. I don't think that is good if I didn't factor it in.
The ride was ironically different when I filled the truck with gas, but could that be enough to make a difference in the ride? I mean it was only 120 lbs? Both grey/black tanks were empty leaving out. The ride was much better, I was still on flat driving terrain.
But 3 things are happening now, im moving weight around (fuel) and im learning to counter steer better as tractor-trailers get in my trailers blind spot, the point where I feel the tug inward, and I'm driving in right lane and driving as far right as I can while staying in lane. The further the passing truck is away, the further I won't deal with their sway. While the last 2 items provide a sense of security, it still seems like too much to do all the time, this is why it's hard for me to plan a Grand Canyon destination trip for example.
5) Something else learned, wind is wind and there's nothing you can do about it. But the only thing you can do is have sway under-control.
The descent down Black Mountain was beautifully controlled by the F150 towing features, but Mother Nature's winds also were in play. Prior to descending I was still enjoying the better ride.
Wind was my problem after descending down. Until wind hit 0, I constantly asked SIRI "what is wind speed right now". Sometimes the iphone gives it to you with speed only, other times it gives you direction as well. A very interesting feature that I noticed I used this week and of course the wind speed was a direct link to the ride.
When wind hit 5 mph, I was fine, It was as high as 25 mph at times. it eventually hit 0 and I was in heaven, but what about sway. Only with trucks at that point, and especially if I was zoned out, and missed one coming up on me.
My trip back, I started out with grey and black each ½ full, I did this on purpose. I filled the tank. The ride was not as good as 2nd and last leg of trip in.
Winds were 0, not many trucks early Sunday morning. But as they increased, I moved into negotiations with counter-steering, far right driving etc....
So I'm always prepping for the long trip, and I realize this is not a problem for all, and I am still tweaking it, as I know the ride I want.
If you have any input, please chime in with experiences, secrets, whatever.
Sorry for the very long post, but wasn't sure how to shrink this down without details.
Thanks
Ken
Awaiting del of 11FB. It's light wt is a towing concern, esp in my Columbia Gorge winds. Having stablizers installed now. Most interested in learning by following this thread. First question, would you explain,"asking SIRI about current wind speed? Thanks.
Quote from: @washouglie" timestamp="1430752340" source="/post/10340/threadAwaiting del of 11FB. It's light wt is a towing concern, esp in my Columbia Gorge winds. Having stablizers installed now. Most interested in learning by following this thread. First question, would you explain,"asking SIRI about current wind speed? Thanks.
[font size="3"]SIRI is a voice operated personal assistant application on Apple iPhones. You're supposed to be able to ask it questions such as where to, find gas, find hotel, weather, etc. It uses the cellular phone system and requires a data plan. I don't use it so I can't speak from experience, but perhaps someone who does will jump in.
[/font]
Accuweather or even the Weather Channel app will give you the local conditions at the push of an icon, if you have signal. Use them camping all the time.
I use the weatherbug app, which shows the wind gusts direction and speed. I have an android.
Charliem is exactly right with regards to SIRI. I don't have it, but the wife and kids do. It's like "voice google with a twist" in that you can ask it anything, including, "SIRI, how many miles from (current location) to (destination)?", or for fun you can ask, "SIRI, who do you love?" or "SIRI, do you like me the best?" Our family has had some great laughs using SIRI during road trips, although sometimes it just gets confused and says your question doesn't compute or it doesn't understand what you're asking...
At 7000 miles the friction cone started malfunctioning. It's still working but it's making a horrible noise when maneuvering around camp sites, gas stations, etc. We're still on the road so Andersen is shipping a new one to our home.
Thanks for posting back about the friction cone. My wife and I just installed our Andersen WDH today and on the short test drive it made a difference that we liked. I wondered about the longevity of the friction cone; I hope generally it's more than 7000 miles.
Quote from: @sandroad" source="/post/10611/thread" timestamp="1431305457Thanks for posting back about the friction cone. My wife and I just installed our Andersen WDH today and on the short test drive it made a difference that we liked. I wondered about the longevity of the friction cone; I hope generally it's more than 7000 miles.
Once I get home, replace the cone and verify that it is the culprit, I plan to speak with a tech rep about cone longevity. 7000 miles is not acceptable at all. However, the rep I spoke to was fast to blame the cone which gave me the impression it's a known problem?
Not sure if this will work from my phone, but here is a pic of mine after about 5k miles. https://flic.kr/p/rXTq9K
Oh well, I guess you have to click the link.
Link worked fine. Definitely some damage. Starting to rethink my purchase and It's already shipped. Wonder what a replacement sleeve would cost if you have to replace it every 5K miles or so.
Rust, corrosion, and ordinary wear and tear is excepted from the limited lifetime warranty. That might not bode well for my long term ownership if the friction cone gives up in what amounts to less than one trip out west for me. Hmmmm.....
That is disconcerting. I will hold off purchasing one for now.
In the interest of K.I.S.S...
My Husky sway control was about $50 and is stone-axe simple.
Recommended to me by Andy at CanAm RV in London, Ontario.
Not saying anything bad about any particular setup - just that our EAZLift Elite with that sway control seems to be getting the job done at a modest overall price.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7356/13747178785_b19767e864_z.jpg)
From the selection of parts on the Anderson website it looks like the entire assembly with the ball will need replacement at $200 USD. :(
Here's a link: [a href="http://www.andersenhitches.com/Products/3355--wd-antisway-assembly-only-with-2516-ball-includes-ball-housing-ball--brake-material.aspx"]http://www.andersenhitches.com/Products/3355--wd-antisway-assembly-only-with-2516-ball-includes-ball-housing-ball--brake-material.aspx[/a]
$200 every 5-7k miles is a heafty price. I cancelled my Anderson order and will look at other alternatives or wait Anderson out to see if they come up with a resolution. Fasteddieb might be on the right track!
[quote source="/post/10682/thread" timestamp="1431431767" author="@ammobob"]$200 every 5-7k miles is a heafty price. I cancelled my Anderson order and will look at other alternatives or wait Anderson out to see if they come up with a resolution. Fasteddieb might be on the right track![/quote]Maybe give Andy at CanAm RV a call. 1-866-CAN-AM-RV (1-866-226-2678)
He's well respected on the Airstream forum, and was willing to spend time with me on the phone on a topic I knew virtually nothing about going in. They specialize in setting up tow vehicles on the "small" side to tow larger trailers.
Andy writes a column for a Canadian magazine called "RV Lifestyle Magazine". Links to some comprehensive articles here:
http://www.canamrv.ca/hitch-hints/
I was grateful enough that we drove all the way there from N GA to have our Flex's hitch reinforced by people who appear to know what they're doing!
fasteddyb - That's cool you recommend Andy at CanAm RV. I had read about him years ago. He is the 'horse whisperer' of trailer hitches! If he helped you with your setup you can be assured it is optimized for your trailer and tow vehicle. It is a great resource to have his name & number! Thanks!
I asked Andersen about wear and tear on the cone and the chain elastomers before buying my hitch. They assured me that the brake lining cone lasts and both are covered with a lifetime warranty. If you go to You Tube under Andersen Manufacturing, there is a video on how to replace the cone. Be advised that the snap ring you have to remove is very large and is a pain to deal with. Once that is removed, the rest of the procedure looks reasonable. You will need to find a large size snap ring tool to remove an 1 3/4" ring. I don't own one. I bought Andersen because of all the positive " buzz " on this site. Now, it seems to have taken a turn. I still have not been able to test my hitch ......long story. Should be good to go next week.
[quote source="/post/10697/thread" timestamp="1431448515" author="@gleamb"]I asked Andersen about wear and tear on the cone and the chain elastomers before buying my hitch. They assured me that the brake lining cone lasts and both are covered with a lifetime warranty. If you go to You Tube under Andersen Manufacturing, there is a video on how to replace the cone. Be advised that the snap ring you have to remove is very large and is a pain to deal with. Once that is removed, the rest of the procedure looks reasonable. You will need to find a large size snap ring tool to remove an 1 3/4" ring. I don't own one. I bought Andersen because of all the positive " buzz " on this site. Now, it seems to have taken a turn. I still have not been able to test my hitch ......long story. Should be good to go next week.[/quote]Those videos answer all of the questions raised in the last few days very well. Essentially the cone is a wear item that's replaced for free as needed and the entire replacement process takes about 10 minutes. Barring the fact that you need some big ass snap ring pliers, I think the performance of the hitch, as expressed by about everyone who's used it, outweighs the downside of cone wearing out.
Anderson is a great company with top notch customer service. The hitch is guaranteed forever. Great hitch, even if it has some issues. Anderson made me a custom plate for my hitch and didn't even charge me. Great folks!!!
That's really good to know about the verbal reassurance on the warranty. The written warranty clearly excludes wear and tear, but if Andersen will replace the cone and cushions for life as they wear out, kudos to them. I also have a separate slip of paper in my hitch shipping box that says not to worry if the red cone comes up out of the carrier after use. That's apparently normal. After our next road trip, I'll report back on how well it works with our setup.
Pulled the cone out today. It's not red like in the videos, it's black? New one should be here tomorrow. Piece of cake to swap.
Hi Surfsup.....how bad did the cone look?
[quote source="/post/10795/thread" timestamp="1431579129" author="@nd1979"]Hi Surfsup.....how bad did the cone look? [/quote]And, Surfsup, was it covered under warranty?
What did you use to remove the snapring?
I have about 6,000 miles on mine and other than a little bit of dirt and wear; it still works great. The picture below was the hitch after a 5,000 mile trip from Florida to Arizona and Utah through some pretty heavy rains and wind. The hitch did creak a bit around turns for a few camping trips after the trip out west, but is now quiet again and still works great. My assumption is the rain resulted in some moisture and/or dirt getting down into the cone. Not even close to needing a replacement.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/djsamuel121859/IMAG2195_resized_zps0krcrcl6.jpg)
Quote from: @nd1979" source="/post/10795/thread" timestamp="1431579129Hi Surfsup.....how bad did the cone look?
It had some scars, but it was far from being destroyed. I'll post a few pictures shortly.
Quote from: @whoofit" source="/post/10796/thread" timestamp="1431599042[quote source="/post/10795/thread" timestamp="1431579129" author="@nd1979"]Hi Surfsup.....how bad did the cone look?
And, Surfsup, was it covered under warranty?
[/quote]
Yes. They shipped the new one UPS, no charge.
Quote from: @gleamb" source="/post/10817/thread" timestamp="1431636255What did you use to remove the snapring?
I borrowed a set of snapring pliers from a friend. Came right off. I tried taking it off with regular pliers, screwdrivers, scribes, etc., but it was too strong.
Btw, the new one they sent me is also black. It's all back together now, just need to take it for a test run, maybe next week?
Hope it goes well and you get more mileage out of the replacement. I broke down and ordered mine Friday. Will get 3000 or so miles on it in June. I will inspect it when we get home and keep everyone posted if I see any issues.
Quote from: @ammobob" source="/post/10886/thread" timestamp="1431779350Hope it goes well and you get more mileage out of the replacement. I broke down and ordered mine Friday. Will get 3000 or so miles on it in June. I will inspect it when we get home and keep everyone posted if I see any issues.
Look forward to your report.
It's a great set up for our aluminum frames. The cone seems to be the only weak link and on mine it was just a noise issue during low speed, sharp turning scenarios (camp sites, gas stations, etc). At highway speed and typical highway maneuvering, there was no noise, and anti-sway and weight distribution were not affected at all. After disassembly and inspection, the cone is obviously still functional and would probably (noisily) last for a long time. I'm going to see how much a new cone costs and probably just keep a spare with the camper just in case it ever happens again. It's an easy job as long as you can get your hands on some snapring pliers :thumbup:
Keep all of us posted once you get the price of a new cone. Sound like something I would throw a spare of in my camper.
Quote from: @funpilot" source="/post/1612/thread" timestamp="1403267511I believe I read somewhere that we should not drill holes in the frame for a WD hitch on our aluminum trailers. So, is there any kind of consensus which brand is the best for our trailers? I do not have the personal experience to properly read all the forums that talk about WD and sway control and relate it to the LL. Help !!
I believe LL doesn't recommend WDH due to the risk of bending the A frame if over tightened. Also, you're correct that LL advises against drilling in to the A frame to install the conventional sway controller.
I've read through a couple of threads saying that weight or tongue weight is the key so I just picked up a "weight Safe" http://www.weigh-safe.com/product/weigh-safe-4-inch-drop-hitch-2-shaft/? trailer hitch system that gives you instant tongue weight with height adjustment. I'm going to try to properly distribute weight in my 21BHS and see how that feels. If I still feel like something is needed, I also found a clamp on sway system http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003VASX0A/ref=mp_s_a_1_19?qid=1431791788&sr=8-19&pi=SL75_QL70&keywords=sway+control that should be safe to use with my LL to give me a little more peace of mind.
Posted using my powerful BlackBerry Z30
I think that you should consider the friction cone on an Andersen WDH an expendable item and plan on replacing it periodically. A 5,000 mile life wouldn't surprise me at all.
That cone is subject to a tremendous force on it when the trailer sways. If you want to produce 100 ft lbs of friction with the cone, it probably needs 1,000 lbs of force on the friction material. That means it must be really tight and that leads to unavoidable wear.
The way the Andersen handles sway is different from all other WDH/sway control hitches in that the friction forces are very concentrated at the surface of the cone. A friction pad sway control device has much less force due to its geometry vs the Andersen.
But replacing the cone every 5,000 miles doesn't seem to be a deal killer does it?
David
Just got back this evening from our first foray with the Andersen WDH. 500 miles of a wide variety of roads and speeds and weather over 3 days. It eliminated porpoising, greatly reduced the pull/push of passing vehicles, and had no sway in the wind. We felt the buffeting of trucks right in front of us, but dropping back some fixed that and it's not really a sway thing anyway. With our TV, we didn't need the WD aspect, but based on a our first 100 miles trip with a light trailer last fall, we decided to go with sway control and the Andersen does both. I have the chains at a very low tension according to the manual, just 2 turns past hand tight. I have no fear of bending the frame or coupler at that low a tension and we are getting the sway control we wanted. I realize the force on the friction cone and will keep watch on it for wear. I'd be disappointed if it's only good for a few thousand miles, but the control it provides our set up is worth replacement. Lining things up when hitching adds a layer of complexity and some time but once the chains are tight, it all feels very secure in a comforting sort of way.
[quote source="/post/10888/thread" timestamp="1431782361" author="@surfsup"][quote source="/post/10886/thread" timestamp="1431779350" author="@ammobob"]Hope it goes well and you get more mileage out of the replacement. I broke down and ordered mine Friday. Will get 3000 or so miles on it in June. I will inspect it when we get home and keep everyone posted if I see any issues.[/quote]Look forward to your report.
It's a great set up for our aluminum frames. The cone seems to be the only weak link and on mine it was just a noise issue during low speed, sharp turning scenarios (camp sites, gas stations, etc). At highway speed and typical highway maneuvering, there was no noise, and anti-sway and weight distribution were not affected at all. After disassembly and inspection, the cone is obviously still functional and would probably (noisily) last for a long time. I'm going to see how much a new cone costs and probably just keep a spare with the camper just in case it ever happens again. It's an easy job as long as you can get your hands on some snapring pliers :thumbup:
[/quote]The noise may have disappeared over time too. As I said, mine started to creak when backing into campsites, etc., but that lasted 3 trips or so after the Arizona trip. All quiet now. As shown in the picture I posted, 6000 miles and still going strong.
Glad yours settled down DJ. The creaking and moaning on mine was getting worse, and it was very VERY loud - to the point everyone at gas stations and campsites would gawk at us. Fairly certain it wasn't gonna get better.
Just got back from a trip and my report is exactly the same as Merlin's, setup with respect to the amount of tension on the on the chains sounds about the same too. I'm very pleased with the improved handling even though my truck is fully capable of handling the camper without any wdh at all.
Here's the old cone. As you can see, it is not destroyed, not even close. This cone would have kept going for a long time, noisily. In fact, I've decided to clean it up and keep it as a "worst case scenario" spare part.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xT10M-NYnuQ/VVnsQrT5ciI/AAAAAAAAS8M/KERgDD2xnP0/s640/upload_-1.jpg"%20style=")
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tomGQctTxzE/VVnsP-V8mtI/AAAAAAAAS8E/PVCeHLvHHqU/s640/upload_-1.jpg"%20style="max-width:100%;)
[img style="max-width:100%;" style="" src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-p5zY007THzc/VVnsRMwmnFI/AAAAAAAAS8U/Z-EO-hMRa_Q/s640/upload_-1.jpg"]
[img style="" style="max-width:100%;" src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YV7xqgUr80U/VVnsR5CCWEI/AAAAAAAAS8c/eoO8w6MTxAY/s640/upload_-1.jpg"]
Is everybody getting black cones? Mine is red. I wonder if it is a different material.
Hi Surfsup....thanks for posting these pictures of the cone....great to use for comparison in the future!
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/11038/thread" timestamp="1431979318Is everybody getting black cones? Mine is red. I wonder if it is a different material.
I was wondering the same, all I see online are red ones?
I purchased my Andersen Hitch about three months ago and my cone is black.
That's about when I bought mine..
Mine delivered today so when I get back from Vegas ( business trip) I'll check and post the color of the cone in the package.
OK opened the box and the cone is black.
Ours is black too.
Mine also
So now the big question is there a difference? Have they upgraded the material? Different supplier maybe? Or was it just as simple as a color change.
There is a company called Energy Suspension that makes polyurethane bushings for cars and trucks (they are excellent by the way). Some of the bushings are offered in red or black. The difference is the black bushings have graphite in them. Don't know if it is the same situation here or not.
I have a question on the Andersen hitch. This is for those who have a Tacoma and the 16 TBS. On the hitch part the fits in the truck, what settings do you have it in. There are 5 holes, do you have it set in the bottom and middle holes or in the number 2 and 4 holes? Mine was set in the number 2 and 4 holes but I have never been able to get the Truck and camper level.
[quote timestamp="1431398150" source="/post/10666/thread" author="@fasteddieb"]In the interest of K.I.S.S...
My Husky sway control was about $50 and is stone-axe simple.
Recommended to me by Andy at CanAm RV in London, Ontario.
Not saying anything bad about any particular setup - just that our EAZLift Elite with that sway control seems to be getting the job done at a modest overall price.
[img src="https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7356/13747178785_b19767e864_z.jpg"][/quote]
We also have a sway and weight distribution setup similar to this, installed by the selling dealer. I'm beginning to think after reading the 13 pages of this thread that it is not wise for use on our aluminum frame... I also notice that where the sway bar ball attaches to the frame was drilled and bolted in, likely with self-tapping screws. I'm concerned about the structural integrity...
Should I disconnect the weight-distribution?
Should I remove the sway plate? I'll double check after work, but I'm sure I don't have aluminum self-tapping screws.
Did the dealer cause me more problems with recommending and installing this system?
purdytj:
Your signature line indicates that you have a 28BHS. Unless you are pulling with a full one ton pickup, I believe that you need the WDH. LL's specs show a tongue weight of 530 lbs as delivered but I will bet it gets above 600 lbs when loaded with gear.
One plus is that the 28 has a deeper frame section. The minus is that it is aluminum. I would think seriously about having a local welder weld an aluminum angle from the front to the back of each A section to strengthen the frame so it can withstand the downward force of the WDH. Also use a light setting on your trunion arms to minimize the force on the frame.
Also I see that the coupler shown has no lower bolts. Search this forum for a discussion of that fix.
David
[quote timestamp="1452793027" author="@david" source="/post/17748/thread"]purdytj:
Your signature line indicates that you have a 28BHS. Unless you are pulling with a full one ton pickup, I believe that you need the WDH. LL's specs show a tongue weight of 530 lbs as delivered but I will bet it gets above 600 lbs when loaded with gear.
One plus is that the 28 has a deeper frame section. The minus is that it is aluminum. I would think seriously about having a local welder weld an aluminum angle from the front to the back of each A section to strengthen the frame so it can withstand the downward force of the WDH. Also use a light setting on your trunion arms to minimize the force on the frame.
Also I see that the coupler shown has no lower bolts. Search this forum for a discussion of that fix.
David[/quote]Thanks for this feedback. I saw that earlier you indicated that LL does not endorse having a WDH and I wish they would state so in their owner's manual. I have found it to be vague as it applies to all of their trailers and not specific to each model. It took some searching and questions on this forum to realize that the water heater has an AC element switch :-)
I have a 3/4 ton Silverado with Duramax diesel. It also happens to have an airbag support system on the rear axle that I can remotely control from the cab. We're going to take a long weekend trip for 2 nights and 240 miles round trip this weekend. I'll bring along the weight distribution bars in the bed of the truck but see how we get along without them at first. In the past I feel that my trunnion setting has been pretty light because I don't like the jarring ride of overly-tight bars.
The lower bolts on the coupler appear to be an easy fix and I saw the related thread on that upgrade.
I'm thankful for this community!
[p]purdytj:
You probably have enough truck to pull the 28 without a WDH. A 3/4 ton has a 1,500 lb nominal bed capacity, but that assumes that the load is distributed evenly fore and aft. But even with 600+ lbs of tongue weight located a few inches aft of the tailgate, it probably is no worse than 1,500 lbs evenly distributed.
Measure the hitch height unloaded and then hook up and measure again. If it drops only 1-1/2" or less you are OK.[/p][p]
[/p][p]LL will never admit publicly to not approving a WDH. That would be a certain admission of a problem with their aluminum frame. They prefer to keep their head in the sand and tell you it is not needed.
David[/p]
So we did the trip without the WDH and the ride was actually more comfortable. I was able to control the airbags on the rear axle from in the cab and we found we like 25-30 psi.
I do have a concern about the coupler (and posted so on the [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs?page=5"]bent coupler thread page 5[/a]). Does it look bent to anyone else? Or is this a standard amount of rise in the location of the ball... my gut tells me no, but maybe it's an optical illusion.
Thoughts?
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/4027238_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/192391_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/7605183_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/2356644_orig.jpg)
Purdytj, I am in the process of replacing the front-most bolts on my hitch because they were not installed with enough clearance to the power jack mount plate. So, I've just looked at my hitch carefully today. From what I see on yours, it looks like the hitch area around the front-most bolts/washers is not perfectly flat like it is on mine. It's dark right now, or I would post a photo. Others should weigh in, but IMHO, it does look like your hitch may be bent up a bit.
[quote source="/post/17889/thread" timestamp="1453173967" author="@sandroad"]Purdytj, I am in the process of replacing the front-most bolts on my hitch because they were not installed with enough clearance to the power jack mount plate. So, I've just looked at my hitch carefully today. From what I see on yours, it looks like the hitch area around the front-most bolts/washers is not perfectly flat like it is on mine. It's dark right now, or I would post a photo. Others should weigh in, but IMHO, it does look like your hitch may be bent up a bit.[/quote]
Copy, thank you. Based on what I'm [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs?page=5"]hearing here[/a], I'll be needing to upgrade!
Karen and I just got back from a brief FL trip.
We now have over 9,000 miles towing experience with no scary moments to date.
The EAZ-Lift w/d hitch with Husky sway control has worked perfectly, and is currently "in the zone". The reinforcement of the receiver by CanAm in London, Ontario, has worked out so far.
Had about 30 mph crosswinds one day, and honking down the sway control a tiny bit kept things under control
I tilted the head of the hitch back a little, so I'm only hanging one link. Only drawback is on steep driveways and humps sometimes the w/d bars drag a bit.
No bending of the hitch in spite of the 625 lb tongue weight. Game plan is to keep an eye on it - if it starts to bend I'll pull it off and have it straightened, then reinstalled with two steel reinforcing plates above it. I just hesitate to drill any holes in the aluminum if not completely necessary,
It's been about 2 years now since new, and I plan a post to update everyone on how things have gone so far.
For now, here are the lovebirds at a friend's in Tallahassee:
[a href="https://flic.kr/p/DrMPQW"]
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1466/24577053802_4e8972eea4_z.jpg"][/a]
Quote from: @purdytj" source="/post/17876/thread" timestamp="1453161451So we did the trip without the WDH and the ride was actually more comfortable. I was able to control the airbags on the rear axle from in the cab and we found we like 25-30 psi.
I do have a concern about the coupler (and posted so on the [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs?page=5"]bent coupler thread page 5[/a]). Does it look bent to anyone else? Or is this a standard amount of rise in the location of the ball... my gut tells me no, but maybe it's an optical illusion.
Thoughts?
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/4027238_orig.jpg"%20style=")
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/192391_orig.jpg"%20style=")
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/7605183_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/2356644_orig.jpg)That looks bent to me, I swapped mine out for a HD Bull Dog, then added bolts to the side.
In anticipation of likely purchasing a 21BHS in the spring after my return north (providing the one I'm eyeing is still on the lot in NH), I've been reading through this thread. Currently I'm using a Reese friction sway bar on a steel frame which won't do on an aluminum frame as it must be drilled. Seems that those of you using the Andersen were happy with it, so since this thread has been quiet for a while I was wondering if indeed you all still are happy and/or have any other recommendations. I like the clean look of it and I can actually understand how it works from that YT video posted early on. Towing with a Silverado extra cab. Thanks all.
I have used the Andersen hitch on my 21RBS with my Tacoma for over a year now. I am very pleased with it as it really helps on sway and quiets down the "hop" when going down an uneven road. Mine started to have a squeaking inner friction cone and Andersen quickly shipped one out free of charge. Very good warranty service.
I have gone on the tall, windy bridge to Galveston with and without the hitch and it was like night and day. Most folks use this hitch more for sway control than weight distribution
Most measure the turns on the tightening nut for adjustment. I measure the compression of the big bushing on each side. I compress the bushing 1/4 inch for my Tacoma. This gives me about an inch or so of distribution to the front end and lots of sway control. Your adjustments will depend on your tow vehicle and trailer load.
I hope this helps.
We have had the Andersen WDH for one year now (as long as we've had our 21BHS) and love it. Easy to connect & disconnect, provides very good sway control, and they have good warranty and customer service. Would highly recommend it.
Meant to post this when we got back this year - having put 8000 miles on the replacement cone this year, it did not develop the noise problem. Evidently the original cone was the problem.
[quote source="/post/26686/thread" author="@surfsup" timestamp="1483069496"]Meant to post this when we got back this year - having put 8000 miles on the replacement cone this year, it did not develop the noise problem. Evidently the original cone was the problem.[/quote]You're just resurfacing after a few months ? Well, brace yourself. There are some changes in the winds.
I just got a new cone for my Andersen hitch. The old one was red and the new one is white. It was interesting when I took the old red cone off there was some black hard crud on the inside of my cone. I did not install the hitch and the installer had never seen one before. I am wondering if he greased it when installing. I won't be using the new cone for a couple of months but hope this helps the handling.
Quote from: @popup2012" source="/post/26726/thread" timestamp="1483204519I just got a new cone for my Andersen hitch. The old one was red and the new one is white. It was interesting when I took the old red cone off there was some black hard crud on the inside of my cone. I did not install the hitch and the installer had never seen one before. I am wondering if he greased it when installing. I won't be using the new cone for a couple of months but hope this helps the handling.
The new white one will work well for you. Our old one was black (not red) and made a lot of
creaking noises before we called them for a replacement.