Hello Everyone,
We're a young family of 4 looking for our first travel trailer. Our tow vehicle will (most likely) be a Toyota Highlander Hybrid with a towing capacity of 3500 lbs.
So here's what we're thinking so far. The 13BHB, with its bunk beds, seems like a solid contender. However, the 13RDB has the option of a fold-down bunk over the front gaucho and is one of the rare layouts that offers wrap-around views (i.e. 3 windows) at the dining table. I'm just not sure how comfortable the gaucho will be.
The 14DB with its sofa bed might work, but I've read that the sofa bed requires extra padding for a decent night's sleep. Of course, the 14DB has the advantage of a dry bath. Does a wet bath become tiresome eventually?
I'd love to hear what has (or hasn't) worked for other Camplite families.
Thank you!
P.S. My wife is not-so-secretly hoping that you'll all recommend getting a 16 or 21 (and a more capable tow vehicle).
With a young family of 4, I'd seriously consider what your wife is thinking; go for a 21BHS and a new tow vehicle. The Camplites are really built to last, and for the investment, I'd seriously consider something you can grow into rather than out of. My wife and I have a 21BHS and the size is really nice, whether it is the two if us, or if our daughter and son in law come along.
[font size="3"]I have to agree with Doug. You need something to grow into, not out of. With small and growing kids you'll need bigger everything. Consider:
[ol type="decimal"][li]Listen to your wife.
[/li][li]The 13s have a tiny 2.5 cu ft fridge vs 5 cu ft in 14s and 16s. You'll need fridge space.
[/li][li]The holding tanks are bigger in 14s and 16s.
[/li][li]LL is very accommodating of customization requests. Fold out beds and dinette/beds can easily be added or swapped for queens. A full sized dinette will become important with the kids.[/li][li]Even the 13s will be taxing on a 3500# TV. eventually you will want to trade up.[/li][li]Yes, the wet bath will get old fast. The dry bath and larger fridge were primary drivers for us to trade up from an RPOD to the CL.[/li][li]If you want to start with a 14 consider the 14DB with the optional dinette/bed combo and fold down bed. I don't have any experience with the sofa, but there are ways to deal with it. You can also substitute a small dinette which can be converted to a single bed for a small person.
[/li][li]See item 1
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I have the 13QBB, I can say with some certainty that four people of any size combination is not going to be very comfortable in a 13. You will all be in each others way at every turn and if it's not you it will be your "stuff".
we are a family of 4 and own the 16'db.we have the bunk above the queen bed which is where my 14 year old daughter sleeps.i modified the dinette to accommodate my son.(made it longer)it is also possible to sleep on a good pad on floor along the dinette-bed area but makes it a little tough for me to get up during the night....let's just say I'm a little older than most parents with teenager's.
Benny, these guys are right. First and foremost is what your wife thinks but beyond that room for you as a family to grow into is important. We inherited our 5 year old granddaughter and in 2012 bought a 16 DB that we towed with a Honda Pilot (3500 lb tow capacity) and after 2 years of fighting the jackknife sofa, granddaughter and space we knew we wanted something bigger. Bought a RAM 1500, sold the 16DB and ordered a 21BHS. Best move I've made in a few years. Granddaughter (now 10) has her own bed, we have plenty of room, the wife is happy and I am not getting gripped at constantly. Not sure of your situation but, food for thought, you will be happier going bigger if you can work it out.
djsamuel, charliem, mitch, nailbender, and Ammobob,
That all sounds like good advice to me. I'll take it! So much for my "Let's start small and see how it goes" approach. I guess I know how it will go now. Not that well. I hadn't considered the size of the fridge and holding tanks. So the 13', 14', and even the 16', will be too small for us either now or very soon. That means we're moving on to the 21's and a heftier tow vehicle. That will certainly make my wife happier!
Thank you for sharing. We really appreciate it.
Cheers,
Benny
[quote source="/post/14560/thread" timestamp="1440513235" author="@16dbenny"]djsamuel, charliem, mitch, nailbender, and Ammobob,
That all sounds like good advice to me. I'll take it! So much for my "Let's start small and see how it goes" approach. I guess I know how it will go now. Not that well. I hadn't considered the size of the fridge and holding tanks. So the 13', 14', and even the 16', will be too small for us either now or very soon. That means we're moving on to the 21's and a heftier tow vehicle. That will certainly make my wife happier!
Thank you for sharing. We really appreciate it.
Cheers,
Benny
[/quote]Good call. Everyone said pretty much what I was thinking, but I thought I'd chime in and say that our 21BHS was what we upgraded to when our second child was born. We had survived with a smaller trailer when we had just one kid, but after a few years of that my wife's orders were:
a dry bath- no drying the toilet and floor after a shower
bunk beds- no transforming every night
a walk around queen- no yoga to get the bed made
Once you threw on my requirement that it not have any wood and the 21BHS was literally the only trailer for us.
It also meant upgrading from a Subaru Outback to a Toyota Sequoia, but we also needed that for the growing kids and kid stuff (and dog). The combination has been working really well for us.
tinkeringtechnie,
Thank you for your feedback. I think we're in the same boat, so the 21BHS is the leading candidate for us as well. Now that we've moved up to the 21' length, a 4WD Sequoia is the prime contender for tow vehicle. I don't think the Highlander (non-hybrid) with a tow capacity of 5,000 lbs. is going to cut it.
Cheers,
Benny
Quote from: @16dbenny" source="/post/14564/thread" timestamp="1440523543tinkeringtechnie,
Thank you for your feedback. I think we're in the same boat, so the 21BHS is the leading candidate for us as well. Now that we've moved up to the 21' length, a 4WD Sequoia is the prime contender for tow vehicle. I don't think the Highlander (non-hybrid) with a tow capacity of 5,000 lbs. is going to cut it.
Cheers,
Benny
You definitely wouldn't want to drop to a Highlander. I tow my 21BHS with a Ram 1500 and that works well and a Sequoia should work well. There are people on this board who tow their 21BHS with a Grand Cherokee with no issues as well.
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/14565/thread" timestamp="1440524651[quote timestamp="1440523543" source="/post/14564/thread" author="@16dbenny"]tinkeringtechnie,
Thank you for your feedback. I think we're in the same boat, so the 21BHS is the leading candidate for us as well. Now that we've moved up to the 21' length, a 4WD Sequoia is the prime contender for tow vehicle. I don't think the Highlander (non-hybrid) with a tow capacity of 5,000 lbs. is going to cut it.
Cheers,
Benny
You definitely wouldn't want to drop to a Highlander. I tow my 21BHS with a Ram 1500 and that works well and a Sequoia should work well. There are people on this board who tow their 21BHS with a Grand Cherokee with no issues as well. [/quote]Charliem uses a Tacoma so you may consider that as a TV also. Not that I think they are much cheaper than a full size truck when decked out but the non-towing gas mileage would (should) be better.
[font size="3"]Benny,
You're definitely on the right track with the 21BHS and Sequoia. Quite a change from your going in position. I'm glad you listened to your wife ;) The Sequoia with the V8 will do well and you're wise to choose 4WD. I wouldn't be without it. Don't pass up the chance to special order the CL and get it exactly as you want it. LL is very good about such things. We'll be waiting to hear how you're doing.
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1. TANSTATMTV
2. Your kids will go through the progression of wanting to be inside with you, then outside in their own tent, then outside in their own tent with a tag along friend, then staying home for a beer blast while the parents are away. If you can get to Stage II it means you can get away with a smaller trailer.
3. The best floorplan I found is the RPOD 179, with honorable mentions to the 177 and 178. However....it's an RPOD. Wood/fiberglass/rubber etc. The cabinets are particle board, and it just won't last like a Camplite. They come with extra single-axel bouncy goodness, whereas your CL 14 and up are dual axels and tow much smoother.
4. Oh yeah. Dry bath. If you like crapping in an airliner, you'll love your RV's wetbath. Otherwise...not so much.
5. In summation, 21BHS if you can't ditch the kids, 16DBS if you can.
Spouses are so darn smart. The Sequoia is a great choice for a family and a great tow vehicle. If you buy used, find one with the 4.7L engine. I think it's one of the best engines ever made. If you had not nixed the HiHy as a TV, I would have jumped in and done it for you. I owned one for 4 years and did light duty towing. They are maximized for efficiency, not hauling. I can only imagine the "white-knuckle" driving involved at anything near its rated capacity for hitch/cargo weight.
djsamuel, Ammobob, charliem, and Merlin,
We live near San Francisco, so steep hills are unavoidable. I wonder how a Tacoma would fare pulling a loaded 21BHS into the high Sierra passes? The Tundra and Sequoia certainly have the muscle (at least on paper), but they're not exactly inexpensive. I have friends who love their Jeeps, but even they admit that reliability is an issue.
[quote source="/post/14573/thread" timestamp="1440529232" author="@pinstriper"]1. TANSTATMTV
2. Your kids will go through the progression of wanting to be inside with you, then outside in their own tent, then outside in their own tent with a tag along friend, then staying home for a beer blast while the parents are away. If you can get to Stage II it means you can get away with a smaller trailer.
3. The best floorplan I found is the RPOD 179, with honorable mentions to the 177 and 178. However....it's an RPOD. Wood/fiberglass/rubber etc. The cabinets are particle board, and it just won't last like a Camplite. They come with extra single-axel bouncy goodness, whereas your CL 14 and up are dual axels and tow much smoother.
4. Oh yeah. Dry bath. If you like crapping in an airliner, you'll love your RV's wetbath. Otherwise...not so much.
5. In summation, 21BHS if you can't ditch the kids, 16DBS if you can.
[/quote][ul type="disc"][li]I'll keep your TANSTATMTV advice in mind. After all, I want camping to be an enjoyable, not stressful, experience.[/li][li]I'm definitely going to enjoy the dry bath. I can't stand airplane lavatories.[/li][li]I checked out the RPOD 179. Its layout does look pretty good. For a time, I considered the Riverside RV Retro 181 trailer. It has a bunkhouse layout in a retro aluminum frame trailer (see video below).[/li][li]I won't be able to ditch the kids for a while. Oh well, I'll just have to get a 21BHS.[/li][/ul]
[video src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbuHuC_VM4k"][/video]
[quote source="/post/14587/thread" timestamp="1440565179" author="@16dbenny"]djsamuel, Ammobob, charliem, and Merlin,
We live near San Francisco, so steep hills are unavoidable. I wonder how a Tacoma would fare pulling a loaded 21BHS into the high Sierra passes? The Tundra and Sequoia certainly have the muscle (at least on paper), but they're not exactly inexpensive. I have friends who love their Jeeps, but even they admit that reliability is an issue.
[/quote]Given the fact you will always encounter steep grades, I would stay with something like a Sequoia/Tundra (or Ram 1500 /F150/Silverado 1500 to give a plug :) ). When we drove to Arizona and Utah we hit some fairly steep grades at times as well as high crosswinds and rain. I was glad I wasn't towing with anything less than a Ram 1500. It was a very easy drive but you don't want to get a tow vehicle that would be straining in some of the conditions around you.
[font size="3"]Let me speak to the Tacoma. I tow a 21RBS with a 2013 Tacoma 4.0L V6. We drive the Colorado high passes (10,000+) each year so that's my test standard. Last year year we towed an RPOD (2500#) with a Honda Pilot (4500# rated) and it did fine. Some places in second gear, but it did fine. When we upgraded to the 21RBS (3500#) i wanted more TV, but not as big as a full sized pickup. My thinking was the Tacoma (6500# rated) would give me 1000# more margin than the Pilot. We haven't given it the Rocky Mountain test yet, but if you can wait a few weeks we can give you a full report. To hedge my bet, and because of the loss of engine performance expected at altitude, I opted to install the TRD supercharger on the Tacoma. That's the closest I could get to a small V8 in a smaller truck. So far this combination has performed perfectly through the Smokey Mountains, Georgia, the East coast, and Canada. I've never even taxed the engine or called on the supercharger, but the Rockies are the test so stay tuned.
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Charlie,
Forgot you had the supercharger on the Tacoma. I am anxious to hear how you make out in the Rockies. How has your mileage been? I'm curious how the supercharger may affect that under towing conditions. I have a friend with an Ecoboost V-6 F-150 and that is a great engine, but he takes quite a hit when towing. That's with a turbocharger so I am wondering if a supercharger is any different. He generally gets around 8.5 - 9 towing a lighter trailer then my 21BHS, but he is young and who knows how fast he tries to accelerate :) . My truck has a normally aspirated 4.7L V8. On the trip out to Utah and Arizona, I averaged about 11.5 with an average speed of about 60.
We are a family of 4 and have a 13RDB and a Highlander. (And we often take 2 small dogs with us!) Is it a little tight sometimes? Yes. But, we love it. We spend most of our time outdoors anyway. I have foam toppers for both the dinette and tip-out and find that helps a lot with comfort. Lots of people hate the wet-bath, but we don't mind it at all! I think we are lucky to have the option in our little camper. I'm sure we will outgrow it in time, but by that time, our kids will be older and so involved with school and sports that getting away for camping trips will be harder any way. As it is, we can only get away occasional weekends and over the summer. I expect we will sell eventually and invest in a Livin' Lite again in retirement. So, the 13RDB has been a great choice for our family - weight, wet-bath, tip-out and price tag were key factors for us.
[quote source="/post/14596/thread" timestamp="1440599073" author="@stonecampers"]We are a family of 4 and have a 13RDB and a Highlander. (And we often take 2 small dogs with us!) Is it a little tight sometimes? Yes. But, we love it. We spend most of our time outdoors anyway. I have foam toppers for both the dinette and tip-out and find that helps a lot with comfort. Lots of people hate the wet-bath, but we don't mind it at all! I think we are lucky to have the option in our little camper. I'm sure we will outgrow it in time, but by that time, our kids will be older and so involved with school and sports that getting away for camping trips will be harder any way. As it is, we can only get away occasional weekends and over the summer. I expect we will sell eventually and invest in a Livin' Lite again in retirement. So, the 13RDB has been a great choice for our family - weight, wet-bath, tip-out and price tag were key factors for us.[/quote]Hello StoneCampers,
Way cool! And I was all set to buy an 81BHS (the 2-bedroom/2-dry bath model) with a V12 Sequoia. I don't think my wife will agree to a 13, but she might be OK with a 16. It's great to hear that your family is enjoying the 13RDB and Highlander combo. And with two dogs, no less!
Thank you,
Benny
[quote source="/post/14592/thread" timestamp="1440589709" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Let me speak to the Tacoma. I tow a 21RBS with a 2013 Tacoma 4.0L V6. We drive the Colorado high passes (10,000+) each year so that's my test standard. Last year year we towed an RPOD (2500#) with a Honda Pilot (4500# rated) and it did fine. Some places in second gear, but it did fine. When we upgraded to the 21RBS (3500#) i wanted more TV, but not as big as a full sized pickup. My thinking was the Tacoma (6500# rated) would give me 1000# more margin than the Pilot. We haven't given it the Rocky Mountain test yet, but if you can wait a few weeks we can give you a full report. To hedge my bet, and because of the loss of engine performance expected at altitude, I opted to install the TRD supercharger on the Tacoma. That's the closest I could get to a small V8 in a smaller truck. So far this combination has performed perfectly through the Smokey Mountains, Georgia, the East coast, and Canada. I've never even taxed the engine or called on the supercharger, but the Rockies are the test so stay tuned.
[/font][/quote]I didn't even know there was a supercharged Tacoma. A Tacoma would certainly make for a more economical day-to-day vehicle. It's quite a bit less expensive than a Sequoia. I am eager to hear how things go in the Colorado Rockies. That's going to be an awesome trip!
Benny, I know there are not a lot of these models out West (if any) and pictures on line are great but if you are ever in the Reno, NV area you are more than welcome to swing by and check out our 21BHS. We will be camping in Graeagle, CA over the Labor Day weekend 4-7 September also.
[quote source="/post/14592/thread" timestamp="1440589709" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Let me speak to the Tacoma. I tow a 21RBS with a 2013 Tacoma 4.0L V6. We drive the Colorado high passes (10,000+) each year so that's my test standard. Last year year we towed an RPOD (2500#) with a Honda Pilot (4500# rated) and it did fine. Some places in second gear, but it did fine. When we upgraded to the 21RBS (3500#) i wanted more TV, but not as big as a full sized pickup. My thinking was the Tacoma (6500# rated) would give me 1000# more margin than the Pilot. We haven't given it the Rocky Mountain test yet, but if you can wait a few weeks we can give you a full report. To hedge my bet, and because of the loss of engine performance expected at altitude, I opted to install the TRD supercharger on the Tacoma. That's the closest I could get to a small V8 in a smaller truck. So far this combination has performed perfectly through the Smokey Mountains, Georgia, the East coast, and Canada. I've never even taxed the engine or called on the supercharger, but the Rockies are the test so stay tuned.
[/font][/quote]Out of curiosity, what do you consider taxing the engine? Transmission temps or gear switching or RPM's? I ask because when I tow my 13QBB through parts of West VA with my Tacoma 4.0L V6 I definitely feel like I'm taxing the engine. Maybe I'm just to sensitive though.
I tend to agree with Stonecampers. It sounds to me you are far from retirement and don't have a ton of time for camping. If you were retired or near retirement I would do the 21 footer. Being a bit crowed camping is not such a bad thing just a couple times out of the year.
If you are constantly in steep hills as described above, go with the larger vehicle, v8 minimum. Pulling a 21 BHS with all your gear will be near 5000 lbs and a V6 in continuous hills or mountains will be marginal but not give you any service factor for heat, altitude etc. I am not sure about the 2016 Tacoma but again the Tacoma will be fine in normal conditions but a lot of hills all the time????? Go bigger engine.
Note that my comments on the Highlander were for the first gen hybrid model. The 2nd or 3rd gen regular V6 AWD versions should make a fine TV for the 13 LL and an overall great family vehicle.
[quote source="/post/14606/thread" timestamp="1440608734" author="@mitch"]Out of curiosity, what do you consider taxing the engine? Transmission temps or gear switching or RPM's? I ask because when I tow my 13QBB through parts of West VA with my Tacoma 4.0L V6 I definitely feel like I'm taxing the engine. Maybe I'm just to sensitive though. [/quote][font size="3"]I judge that by RPM and acceleration or lack thereof, and gear shifting. Normally when I tow at 60MPH in fourth gear I'm turning 2500 RPM. If I want to accelerate or climb a moderate hill the Taco downshifts one or maybe two gears so one indication is how long it stays in a lower gear. I consider it taxing if I see 4000 RPM, or real strain when trying to maintain highway speed. Mostly by feel. If it can maintain speed without going into scream mode it's not straining. Transmission temperature, of course, goes up, but that's not related to engine performance. As I said the real test is coming in Colorado this fall. Gas mileage while towing runs 10-10.8 depending. This is as displayed on the SacnGauge. I have not actually done the manual calculation. The gas mileage is what it is. I have no real data on daily driving without towing since the Taco's only task other than towing is a trip to the hardware store every week or so to keep the oil moving. On the RPOD forum we found the towing MPG was largely constant from TV to TV and engine to engine. It's mainly a function of the trailer frontal area; only secondarily affected by trailer weight. Physics says it takes XX horsepower to pull the parachute at a given speed and gas flow is directly related to horsepower. I think MPG differences are more noticeable at light loads such as daily driving unloaded.
I'll add that a V8 would have been my first choice, but no one puts a V8 in a small truck any more. My wife didn't want to drive the full sized truck around after we decoupled the trailer and the newer trucks are very difficult to reach into the bed without a step stool. In that respect the older trucks were better. So, to mitigate the lack of a V8, I went with the supercharger. Time will tell.
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[quote source="/post/14614/thread" timestamp="1440636951" author="@charliem"][quote timestamp="1440608734" author="@mitch" source="/post/14606/thread"]Out of curiosity, what do you consider taxing the engine? Transmission temps or gear switching or RPM's? I ask because when I tow my 13QBB through parts of West VA with my Tacoma 4.0L V6 I definitely feel like I'm taxing the engine. Maybe I'm just to sensitive though. [/quote][font size="3"]I judge that by RPM and acceleration or lack thereof, and gear shifting. Normally when I tow at 60MPH in fourth gear I'm turning 2500 RPM. If I want to accelerate or climb a moderate hill the Taco downshifts one or maybe two gears so one indication is how long it stays in a lower gear. I consider it taxing if I see 4000 RPM, or real strain when trying to maintain highway speed. Mostly by feel. If it can maintain speed without going into scream mode it's not straining. Transmission temperature, of course, goes up, but that's not related to engine performance. As I said the real test is coming in Colorado this fall. Gas mileage while towing runs 10-10.8 depending. This is as displayed on the SacnGauge. I have not actually done the manual calculation. The gas mileage is what it is. I have no real data on daily driving without towing since the Taco's only task other than towing is a trip to the hardware store every week or so to keep the oil moving. On the RPOD forum we found the towing MPG was largely constant from TV to TV and engine to engine. It's mainly a function of the trailer frontal area; only secondarily affected by trailer weight. Physics says it takes XX horsepower to pull the parachute at a given speed and gas flow is directly related to horsepower. I think MPG differences are more noticeable at light loads such as daily driving unloaded.[/font]
[/quote]Makes sense, I also tow around 60 mph and my experience mirrors yours. I always feel like I'm pushing the vehicle hard when I drop that gear or two to climb a hill. Maybe it's not as bad as I make it out to be. I use Torque Pro on a Samsung Galaxy Tab to monitor my systems. I think the highest my Trans temp has ever run up on those steep hills is 240 Fahrenheit.
[quote source="/post/14616/thread" timestamp="1440637969" author="@mitch"]Makes sense, I also tow around 60 mph and my experience mirrors yours. I always feel like I'm pushing the vehicle hard when I drop that gear or two to climb a hill. Maybe it's not as bad as I make it out to be. I use Torque Pro on a Samsung Galaxy Tab to monitor my systems. I think the highest my Trans temp has ever run up on those steep hills is 240 Fahrenheit. [/quote][font size="3"]I'll add that a V8 would have been my first choice, but no one puts a V8 in a small truck any more. My wife didn't want to drive the full sized truck around after we decoupled the trailer and the newer trucks are very difficult to reach into the bed without a step stool. In that respect the older trucks were better. So, to mitigate the lack of a V8, I went with the supercharger. Time will tell.
As you may know the Taco reports two transmission temperatures. One is apparently right after the torque converter and responds very quickly. The other is closer to the oil reservoir and responds slower. I monitor the first to see what's happening in semi-real time. The second is more representative of the real oil temperature, but I don't watch it. The ScanGauge can monitor both with the proper codes,
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[quote source="/post/14598/thread" timestamp="1440603064" author="@16dbenny"]I didn't even know there was a supercharged Tacoma. A Tacoma would certainly make for a more economical day-to-day vehicle. It's quite a bit less expensive than a Sequoia. I am eager to hear how things go in the Colorado Rockies. That's going to be an awesome trip!
[/quote][font size="3"]Toyota Racing Development (TRD) offered a supercharger for the Taco and Tundra through 2013. I think they stopped in 2014, probably for some environmental Avg Fuel Economy reasons. I think it's still available for the Tundra. I bought the SC from an aftermarket Toyota supplier at a great savings and had the Toyota dealer install it. Having Toyota install it [/font][font size="3"]the supercharger is guaranteed the same as the new Toyota. Sweet. I think there have been no recent changes to the 4.0L engine so the SC will still fit current models, but Toyota will not sell or guarantee it. My original preference was the Ford F-150 Ecoboost, but that truck is just too big physically. Maybe someday. :)
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Quote from: @ammobob" source="/post/14600/thread" timestamp="1440604657Benny, I know there are not a lot of these models out West (if any) and pictures on line are great but if you are ever in the Reno, NV area you are more than welcome to swing by and check out our 21BHS. We will be camping in Graeagle, CA over the Labor Day weekend 4-7 September also.
Thanks Ammobob! That's quite a generous offer. I'll drop you a note when we're next in your neighborhood.
Cheers,
Benny
I would also like to follow up with Charle's Tacoma comments. I too have a Tacoma towing a 21RBS. I have only travelled in Texas so far and it is fine with just the rolling hills we have here. I also run in only 4th gear and always around 3k rpm on small hills. I don't have a super charger and don't have the addition HP that Charlie has.
So, I can definitely agree that if you are going to be towing the larger 21RBS or 21BHS in the mountains, a V8 is the best way to go.
Yes, from everything I've read online and in talking with people, go with a V-8 engine if you're going to be towing in the mountains......especially if you're hauling a 21-footer. And yes, there aren't many vehicles (other than full size pick-up trucks) that offer a V-8 engine. We know, because we have spent a couple of months looking around. We are getting ready to order a CL 21BHS and wanted a tow vehicle with a V-8 engine but didn't want to buy a full-sized pick-up truck to pull it. So our choices were basically 3 or 4 SUV type vehicles. We test drove the Toyota Sequoia and Jeep Grand Cherokee, and also considered the Infinity QX56 or QX80, and we considered the Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon but did not test drive any of those others due to price considerations and overall size of the vehicles. While we liked the Sequoia, we liked the Jeep Grand Cherokee the best for many reasons and the price was considerably less than the Sequoia (and all of the others). The Jeep's 5.7L V-8 engine has towing capacity of 7,200 lbs (we bought the 4x4) and we bought it with the towing package so it has a separate radiator for the transmission, and it also has an automatic air suspension leveling system which should work well and level out the back end once the camper is connected. Even though we haven't pulled a camper with it yet (haven't ordered it yet), I am very confident that it will do a great job. We did have the opportunity recently to pull a fully loaded 12-foot U-haul trailer that had to weigh a total of 5,000 lbs. The Grand Cherokee did a fabulous job of pulling and handling the loaded U-Haul trailer and didn't have any trouble pulling it uphill (only lost a little speed and only dropped down one gear with RPM's about 3,500 at 60 mph going uphill). I realize that the camper will be much longer and will sit up much higher/taller on the road than the U-haul trailer so it won't pull exactly the same, but I doubt that the Jeep Grand Cherokee will have any problems pulling the 21BHS in any kind of situation, and it's really a nice vehicle overall (we are very impressed with the quality and ride). Just thought I'd offer this up as a great option for those who want a V-8 for performance but not have to have a super large SUV or full-sized pick-up, and you don't have to break the bank!
Quote from: @16dbenny" source="/post/14587/thread" timestamp="1440565179djsamuel, Ammobob, charliem, and Merlin,
We live near San Francisco, so steep hills are unavoidable. I wonder how a Tacoma would fare pulling a loaded 21BHS into the high Sierra passes? The Tundra and Sequoia certainly have the muscle (at least on paper), but they're not exactly inexpensive. I have friends who love their Jeeps, but even they admit that reliability is an issue.
I live in Port Angeles, WA and tow our 2015 21BHS with my wife, two young kids, dog and all the food, diapers, toys, etc imaginable (the list grows after every trip) with a Silverado 1500 4WD. In the mountains you're going to want the bigger truck as performance declines with altitude and driving around with a red line / overheating engine is no fun. I use the Andersen WDH as well and it does improve the ride. High gusts in mountainous areas with channeled wind could have really ruined my day a couple of times without the Andersen in my opinion. Lots of precious cargo to worry about and good gear sure makes sense for my piece of mind.
We're a step bigger with 3 young girls. We have a 28 BHS and Silverado 2500 with Duramax /Allison. I'm a fan of diesel given longevity, torque, and efficiency. I skimmed the posts but didn't see discussion on smaller diesels like the Grand Cherokee, Chevy Colorado, Dodge Ram 1500, and upcoming Nissan Titan (with 5.0 Cummins). Yes they are more expensive up front but to us the vehicle pays for itself because we keep cars a long time.