Welcome aboard. I look forward to seeing this relationship develop and possibly help prospective new customers get what they want the way they want it.
Welcome to the boards :) I'm sure you'll get an ear full from this awesome group.
Glad you joined!
Thanks.
Happy to have you here.
Welcome! Looking forward to your valuable contribution to this group!
Please note the affection this group has proven time and time again to your product line throughout the years and the unwaivering dedication that some more senior members than myself have shown in support of it. Some of these guys are tireless.
As for me I'm just here for the cookies... ;)
Welcome...from Canada!!
Welcome!
Welcome aboard looking forward to having a company contact on the board.
Question for Christian or Taylor:
I have the 21BHS and it was hit by a truck back door that swung open as the truck was moving past our 21 BHS at a storage facility. The back has to be painted and the RV repair company is telling me they are having issues getting a price for the decals for the back and the hot water heater outer door. Can you tell me who at LL I could contact to get these parts. Thanks MonteD
Interesting issue about this is the trucking company was moving furniture for a lady to storage. Nobody said anything about the problem. I discovered the damage when we were getting ready for a trip to Tybee Island GA. All the damage is in a straight vertical line about 1.5 inches wide from just above the bumper all the way to the top trim. I called the storage facility and they said they would review their camera security tapes. Sure enough, they got it on camera. The truck owner does not recall the incident but is willing to pay for the damage. I think he recalls it now since he was told they have it on camera; I am all for security cameras and like others on this forum may get one for our pickup to video driving down the highway.
It'd be kinda nice if we saw traffic from these guys in other sections besides New Members. Something like, oh..."Ask The Factory" for starters. Start walking your way through old posts there and provide some sort of feedback.
Just sayin' it would be kinda nice.
I agree. I would particularly like to know what the factory is doing about rain water leaking up through the aluminum floor panels.
David
Looks to me like these folks work in Marketing.
In my communications with Christian, they are part of the public relations group for LivinLite now. From the sounds of it they will be a good point of contact for general communication and feedback. I would imagine if they dont have the answer they can help in getting us the details, or getting us connected with the right people.
It would be a great idea if they could post the answers publicly. Would probably save the factory many hours not having to respond to individuals. Most of our questions will be common ones. A well developed and interactive FAQ of sorts. Either way they have much to offer if they have the time to answer and would be quite an asset to the community at large.
With any product there will be questions and problems. Question is if acknowledging them in public forum is good PR/Marketing. I do hope they think it is.
I don't care if they work in engineering, marketing, or the cafeteria. How they organize and divide the work is not my business, it's theirs.
So long as they represent the factory, they represent the factory and should be taking our feedback and providing responses. If they don't do that, they don't add value and would actually reflect poorly on the firm.
[quote timestamp="1439737447" author="@pinstriper" source="/post/14231/thread"]
So long as they represent the factory, they represent the factory and should be taking our feedback and providing responses. If they don't do that, they don't add value and would actually reflect poorly on the firm.
[/quote][font size="3"]Pins,
100%. You nailed it. They could be a great asset or a great negative. Depends on how they and LL handle it. Let's wish them success.
[/font]
[quote source="/post/14206/thread" author="@monted" timestamp="1439603734"]Question for Christian or Taylor:
I have the 21BHS and it was hit by a truck back door that swung open as the truck was moving past our 21 BHS at a storage facility. The back has to be painted and the RV repair company is telling me they are having issues getting a price for the decals for the back and the hot water heater outer door. Can you tell me who at LL I could contact to get these parts. Thanks MonteD
Interesting issue about this is the trucking company was moving furniture for a lady to storage. Nobody said anything about the problem. I discovered the damage when we were getting ready for a trip to Tybee Island GA. All the damage is in a straight vertical line about 1.5 inches wide from just above the bumper all the way to the top trim. I called the storage facility and they said they would review their camera security tapes. Sure enough, they got it on camera. The truck owner does not recall the incident but is willing to pay for the damage. I think he recalls it now since he was told they have it on camera; I am all for security cameras and like others on this forum may get one for our pickup to video driving down the highway.[/quote]Hi There!
I'm sorry to hear about the door- but glad that all of this was caught on camera!
I have messaged your privately with the contact info of the gentleman who can help you get your parts and decals.
Thanks!
Christian
[quote timestamp="1439648043" author="@pinstriper" source="/post/14210/thread"]It'd be kinda nice if we saw traffic from these guys in other sections besides New Members. Something like, oh..."Ask The Factory" for starters. Start walking your way through old posts there and provide some sort of feedback.
Just sayin' it would be kinda nice.[/quote]pinstriper,
I am excited to delve farther into the forum, and to begin paging through as many older posts as I can. I am amazed by all of the topics of discussion that have appeared on this forum, and by the knowledge of some of the experienced campers and handymen. Very cool!
I'll be very honest, when Livin Lite management originally asked me to become involved on this forum, it was with the intention of doing two things.
1) gaining insight on ways that Livin Lite owners are using their campers: where they are travelling, modifications that they have done, and interests that you guys might have as a body of owners (Livin Lite gear, Rallies, etc.) Mostly a public relations and marketing function. Livin Lite wants to hear about our owners!
2) To address customer service concerns and make sure that those of you that need assistance are put in contact with those at Livin Lite that can help you!
So, going forward, I will be relying heavily on Sean and some of the other (more technically minded) moderators, to comment on threads of a technical nature. As much as I would love to have the knowledge and experience to have input in those conversations- I know that area is not my strength! :P However, when customer service issues come up or someone is in need of answers from Livin Lite, I will be very involved in getting those taken care of. If someone has a question that has been adequately answered by many other qualified members, you will probably not hear my two cents. My focus will also be largely on threads that are currently being discussed. Though I will address as many old threads as I can, I want to make sure that I am getting to owners that need assistance immediately. I may be new to this....but I do know that no one with a leaky tent likes to be kept waiting! ;)
This is a new relationship, and I have NO DOUBT that there will be some growing pains...But know that I am honored to be here and to get to know you all better, on behalf of Livin Lite!
Welcome to the Forum....................and please take some of the posts with a grain of salt.
I never expect a perfect product, Just a great product. I do know that my QS is perfect for me. I have had some little challenges since purchasing my trailer in late May. Some are my own fault, those that weren't my fault, I easily fixed without need to call the dealer or contact Livin Lite. Google answers most of my questions and I refer often to my owner's manual.
Quote from: @christianm" source="/post/14307/thread" timestamp="1439922615Quote from: @pinstriper" source="/post/14210/thread" timestamp="1439648043It'd be kinda nice if we saw traffic from these guys in other sections besides New Members. Something like, oh..."Ask The Factory" for starters. Start walking your way through old posts there and provide some sort of feedback.
Just sayin' it would be kinda nice.
pinstriper,
I am excited to delve farther into the forum, and to begin paging through as many older posts as I can. I am amazed by all of the topics of discussion that have appeared on this forum, and by the knowledge of some of the experienced campers and handymen. Very cool!
I'll be very honest, when Livin Lite management originally asked me to become involved on this forum, it was with the intention of doing two things.
1) gaining insight on ways that Livin Lite owners are using their campers: where they are travelling, modifications that they have done, and interests that you guys might have as a body of owners (Livin Lite gear, Rallies, etc.) Mostly a public relations and marketing function. Livin Lite wants to hear about our owners!
2) To address customer service concerns and make sure that those of you that need assistance are put in contact with those at Livin Lite that can help you!
So, going forward, I will be relying heavily on Sean and some of the other (more technically minded) moderators, to comment on threads of a technical nature. As much as I would love to have the knowledge and experience to have input in those conversations- I know that area is not my strength! :P However, when customer service issues come up or someone is in need of answers from Livin Lite, I will be very involved in getting those taken care of. If someone has a question that has been adequately answered by many other qualified members, you will probably not hear my two cents. My focus will also be largely on threads that are currently being discussed. Though I will address as many old threads as I can, I want to make sure that I am getting to owners that need assistance immediately. I may be new to this....but I do know that no one with a leaky tent likes to be kept waiting! ;)
This is a new relationship, and I have NO DOUBT that there will be some growing pains...But know that I am honored to be here and to get to know you all better, on behalf of Livin Lite!
Welcome to the board. As you work your way through the threads, you will probably see that no wood in the Camplites and Quicksilvers was an important consideration for practically all, if not all, of us. There is a fairly new thread that talks about wood cabinet doors going into new Camplites. Could you check on this for us, and let us know if this is the direction that Livin Lite will be taking?
[p][font size="4"] Welcome Taylor and Christian from a Michigan 21[/font][font size="4"]BHS owner. As factory rep's, your input is a valuable addition to an already valuable information source. [/font][/p]
[quote source="/post/14329/thread" timestamp="1439945717" author="@leslie"][quote source="/post/14307/thread" timestamp="1439922615" author="@christianm"]pinstriper,
I am excited to delve farther into the forum, and to begin paging through as many older posts as I can. I am amazed by all of the topics of discussion that have appeared on this forum, and by the knowledge of some of the experienced campers and handymen. Very cool!
I'll be very honest, when Livin Lite management originally asked me to become involved on this forum, it was with the intention of doing two things.
1) gaining insight on ways that Livin Lite owners are using their campers: where they are travelling, modifications that they have done, and interests that you guys might have as a body of owners (Livin Lite gear, Rallies, etc.) Mostly a public relations and marketing function. Livin Lite wants to hear about our owners!
2) To address customer service concerns and make sure that those of you that need assistance are put in contact with those at Livin Lite that can help you!
So, going forward, I will be relying heavily on Sean and some of the other (more technically minded) moderators, to comment on threads of a technical nature. As much as I would love to have the knowledge and experience to have input in those conversations- I know that area is not my strength! :P However, when customer service issues come up or someone is in need of answers from Livin Lite, I will be very involved in getting those taken care of. If someone has a question that has been adequately answered by many other qualified members, you will probably not hear my two cents. My focus will also be largely on threads that are currently being discussed. Though I will address as many old threads as I can, I want to make sure that I am getting to owners that need assistance immediately. I may be new to this....but I do know that no one with a leaky tent likes to be kept waiting! ;)
This is a new relationship, and I have NO DOUBT that there will be some growing pains...But know that I am honored to be here and to get to know you all better, on behalf of Livin Lite!
[/quote]
Welcome to the board. As you work your way through the threads, you will probably see that no wood in the Camplites and Quicksilvers was an important consideration for practically all, if not all, of us. There is a fairly new thread that talks about wood cabinet doors going into new Camplites. Could you check on this for us, and let us know if this is the direction that Livin Lite will be taking?[/quote]I will check into it and see what I can find out!
[quote source="/post/14357/thread" timestamp="1439997665" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/14329/thread" timestamp="1439945717" author="@leslie"]Welcome to the board. As you work your way through the threads, you will probably see that no wood in the Camplites and Quicksilvers was an important consideration for practically all, if not all, of us. There is a fairly new thread that talks about wood cabinet doors going into new Camplites. Could you check on this for us, and let us know if this is the direction that Livin Lite will be taking?[/quote]I will check into it and see what I can find out! [/quote]Christian, even if they are going that way it would also be helpful to know if the aluminum doors would still be an option with a special order.
In the thread on wooden cabinet doors, LivinLitePaul from LivinLite said:
QuoteJust to clarify, yes there will be changes down the road involving cabinetry. The cabinet frames will still be all aluminum tubing, just the cabinet fronts and stiles will be wood. pr
Hey Y'all!
Paul (from Livin Lite) and I were talking further with Livin Lite management today and Paul had a great response to the question about Wood Cabinet doors. Check it out at the link below. Hope this helps!
http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/1413/wood-cabinet-doors?page=3&scrollTo=14366
Thank you, christianm. I was not aware that Paul would also be posting from Livin Lite.
I have a customized red Camplite 21-BHS, which matches the color of the Jeep Grand Cherokee with which we tow it. Usually, when we pull into a campsite, we get questions about Camplite and Livin Lite. My husband proudly tells campers to take a look inside. I think wood cabinet doors detract from the value of an all-aluminum camper.
Maybe it should be an option.
Welcome, from a happy Texan in a 13QBB. It's a pleasure to hear from you.
[quote source="/post/14307/thread" timestamp="1439922615" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/14210/thread" timestamp="1439648043" author="@pinstriper"]It'd be kinda nice if we saw traffic from these guys in other sections besides New Members. Something like, oh..."Ask The Factory" for starters. Start walking your way through old posts there and provide some sort of feedback.
Just sayin' it would be kinda nice.[/quote]pinstriper,
I am excited to delve farther into the forum, and to begin paging through as many older posts as I can. I am amazed by all of the topics of discussion that have appeared on this forum, and by the knowledge of some of the experienced campers and handymen. Very cool!
I'll be very honest, when Livin Lite management originally asked me to become involved on this forum, it was with the intention of doing two things.
1) gaining insight on ways that Livin Lite owners are using their campers: where they are travelling, modifications that they have done, and interests that you guys might have as a body of owners (Livin Lite gear, Rallies, etc.) Mostly a public relations and marketing function. Livin Lite wants to hear about our owners!
2) To address customer service concerns and make sure that those of you that need assistance are put in contact with those at Livin Lite that can help you!
So, going forward, I will be relying heavily on Sean and some of the other (more technically minded) moderators, to comment on threads of a technical nature. As much as I would love to have the knowledge and experience to have input in those conversations- I know that area is not my strength! :P However, when customer service issues come up or someone is in need of answers from Livin Lite, I will be very involved in getting those taken care of. If someone has a question that has been adequately answered by many other qualified members, you will probably not hear my two cents. My focus will also be largely on threads that are currently being discussed. Though I will address as many old threads as I can, I want to make sure that I am getting to owners that need assistance immediately. I may be new to this....but I do know that no one with a leaky tent likes to be kept waiting! ;)
This is a new relationship, and I have NO DOUBT that there will be some growing pains...But know that I am honored to be here and to get to know you all better, on behalf of Livin Lite!
[/quote][p]I don't find anything wrong with the role you've outlined. It seems entirely appropriate to me. I was just prodding you to get to the meat of the board, as it relates to our LL/Thor overlords. FWIW I think it would be INAPPROPRIATE for anyone to expect you to carry out customer service work here in a public sausage factory, as it were. But people have been posting things in this and other sections that leave the "factory" response to a bunch of us bozos on the internet. You really ought to be jumping in with the official response, or whatever it is us jokers make up will be taken as the final word, and most of the time we're guessing.[/p][p]
[/p]
Hi Christian and Taylor.
Glad to have you. Re: getting to know LL owners, my wife writes a little camping article for a free upper east TN paper. See it at outnaboutmagazine.com. It will give one perspective.
We are new retirees, and used to backpack a bit. Now we like the comfort of a fixed bed, and like the small understated quality of our 14dbs. Just the right size. We have intentionally not been out int the hot summer, but hope to do 6-8 trips of 3-8 days each before freezing temps come. One main reason for a camper was for us to easily take our dog. We recently made a scouting trip to central Virginia, staying in hotels, and I was miserable, I wanted a campground and my camper, but I cannot stand the summer outdoor heat. Hope to hear good things from and about you.
Quote from: @pinstriper" timestamp="1440035248" source="/post/14375/threadBut people have been posting things in this and other sections that leave the "factory" response to a bunch of us bozos on the internet. You really ought to be jumping in with the official response, or whatever it is us jokers make up will be taken as the final word, and most of the time we're guessing.
Are you calling me a bozo? ;) Seriously though, I do feel like a bozo posting replies in the factory section, but I'd rather they get a response from a bozo than no response at all. Many of those questions I have no idea on though, so those questions went completely unanswered and they probably moved on to other manufacturers.
[quote source="/post/14417/thread" timestamp="1440164822" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/14375/thread" timestamp="1440035248" author="@pinstriper"]But people have been posting things in this and other sections that leave the "factory" response to a bunch of us bozos on the internet. You really ought to be jumping in with the official response, or whatever it is us jokers make up will be taken as the final word, and most of the time we're guessing.[/quote]Are you calling me a bozo? ;) Seriously though, I do feel like a bozo posting replies in the factory section, but I'd rather they get a response from a bozo than no response at all. Many of those questions I have no idea on though, so those questions went completely unanswered and they probably moved on to other manufacturers.[/quote]Believe it or not, the purpose of these forums is to be primarily "owner driven". SO, we are thrilled when you guys answer each other's questions. Why? Because some of you guys have more experience camping and in your LL product than we here at Corporate could only dream of having (It's true!). When someone asks a factory specific question, we are going to try to be better about posting a response, but many times, you guys beat us to it and provide a perfect answer. We rely and appreciate those of you who jump in to answer- that is exactly how this is supposed to work! Thank you for being so involved!
[quote source="/post/14417/thread" timestamp="1440164822" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote timestamp="1440035248" source="/post/14375/thread" author="@pinstriper"]But people have been posting things in this and other sections that leave the "factory" response to a bunch of us bozos on the internet. You really ought to be jumping in with the official response, or whatever it is us jokers make up will be taken as the final word, and most of the time we're guessing.[/quote]Are you calling me a bozo? ;) Seriously though, I do feel like a bozo posting replies in the factory section, but I'd rather they get a response from a bozo than no response at all. Many of those questions I have no idea on though, so those questions went completely unanswered and they probably moved on to other manufacturers.[/quote][p]Well, still waiting on your redesign of the stairs. Or was it the awning supports ?[/p][p]
[/p][p]I won't say you're a bozo, but I can't say you're not.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Honestly, when the yahoo group was such a mess, and Scott referred everyone here, a lot of people had the natural expectation that LL would be an active participant and this forum would be a hemi-demi-semi-quasi official channel to the factory, at least in the Ask The Factory section. That hasn't happened yet.[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/14420/thread" timestamp="1440166745" author="@christianm"]Believe it or not, the purpose of these forums is to be primarily "owner driven". SO, we are thrilled when you guys answer each other's questions. Why? Because some of you guys have more experience camping and in your LL product than we here at Corporate could only dream of having (It's true!). When someone asks a factory specific question, we are going to try to be better about posting a response, but many times, you guys beat us to it and provide a perfect answer. We rely and appreciate those of you who jump in to answer- that is exactly how this is supposed to work! Thank you for being so involved! [/quote][font size="3"]Christianm and LL Paul,
I am very glad you guys are here and participating in our forum. Christian was all over the forum this morning, addressing various questions and offering contact info or additional help. All well and very good, but there is one aspect not yet addressed.
A great strength of this format is the dissemination of information. As such, answers to commonly asked questions need to be posted publicly. We find the same questions being asked repeatedly by new owners or old hands encountering new problems. Frequently the issue has been addressed previously and can be found by searching. That saves time for the questioner, you guys, and your factory consultants. A private response from the factory bypasses this important step.
I'm not sure of the best solution. [/font][font size="3"]If the problem can quickly be answered by Pinstriper's "Bozos" it will be. However, if the factory is involved their answer should be posted to the public forum. [/font][font size="3"]I wouldn't expect the original poster to come back and summarize the factory response. Lots of opportunity for miscommunication and errors there. So I'm looking for a practical alternative to customer service referrals. Somebody jump in here.
[/font]
If we continue to have a positive interaction between LL and the forum I could see having a dedicated FAQ page/thread. This would allow for a centralized area that could be kept up to date by whomever wants to keep it up. If done by an individual, they could simply keep editing their original post so that the newest information is always in the first post on the thread. If a group of users want to moderate a FAQ thread we could have it restricted to allow anyone access to view it, but only those approved to add information...
Just spit-balling here
Some customer service issues are best handled by PM, but there's probably a lot of information that could be put into a public post.
Such posts that become particularly informative or repetitive could be stickie'd. This has to be done with care, or we'll have a whole page of stickies to ignore. From time to time an enterprising bozo with too much time on their hands could collect links to a series of posts and make a summary that could be stickie'd instead.
[quote source="/post/14432/thread" timestamp="1440180669" author="@admin"]If we continue to have a positive interaction between LL and the forum I could see having a dedicated FAQ page/thread. This would allow for a centralized area that could be kept up to date by whomever wants to keep it up. If done by an individual, they could simply keep editing their original post so that the newest information is always in the first post on the thread. If a group of users want to moderate a FAQ thread we could have it restricted to allow anyone access to view it, but only those approved to add information...
Just spit-balling here[/quote][p]As I said above I think an interactive FAQ is an excellent idea. On it's own page so there is no saturating another with Stickies. I can see it in the Ask the Factory area. This would allow the factory folks to voice their official position with the most efficiency. Most questions are common to most members.[/p][p]
[/p][p]TBD is what are we all going to talk about when all the questions are answered? Some other forums read like a card catalog with pointers to links in a FAQ. Gets quite boring as their are always multiple ways to approach a problem and these ways, sometime ill-conceived and flat out wrong, are interesting to say the least. Some are brilliant....like mine!... :D[/p][p]
[/p][p]Of course a huge problem for the factory is telling someone to "go it alone" in repair mode. They just don't know the individuals credentials to be futzing around with plumbing, electrical, heights, LP and such so most official answers will be "take it to your nearest dealer" for liability reasons.
[/p]
I think having a FAQ thread/portion is a great idea. I am happy to chip in wherever it is appropriate/needed, as in LL paul!
I think you guys have a really good point in talking about how some answers would be very helpful to have posted publicly, and how some answers are better for private messages. We have devised a pretty good system on the CrossRoads and Redwood forums that I also monitor and contribute to.
When an owner has a technical/lifestyle/general question, the official Livin Lite answer (mine or LL Paul's) is posted publicly so that other owners can benefit. However, when there is customer service related issue (parts need to be obtained, a dealer has dropped the ball, Owner has a specific warranty-related request, etc) I post that I have contacted the owner privately to help them further. Once I have contacted them privately, we can exchange personal/contact information and I can help them get the help they need. That way, FAQs are given lots of press, while people that need help in more extreme cases can be contacted by me personally :-) If it's acceptable, I would like to implement the same sort of system on this forum.
So I'll throw together a FAQ section under the Ask the factory board. It will be a separate section, but from a moderation standpoint I think we should have it as a semi-restricted board. Otherwise I think it will become just another Q&A section to weed through. I can set it up so that only certain members/moderators have the ability to create a thread, but then anyone can reply to it. In essence, this would allow it to stay limited to anything that is a frequent topic, but also allow everyone to respond to any of the questions.
If there are existing threads that we think should be considered as an FAQ thread we can also have it moved as needed.
Do we have any volunteers?
New section created.
Any current moderator or LL staff can create a thread in the FAQ section at this time.
Any member can reply/post to a thread in the section.
Moderators can move any threads from their respective sections, into the FAQ section if they see fit.
Quote from: @admin" timestamp="1440436336" source="/post/14518/threadNew section created.
Any current moderator or LL staff can create a thread in the FAQ section at this time.
Any member can reply/post to a thread in the section.
Moderators can move any threads from their respective sections, into the FAQ section if they see fit.
[font size="3"]Good news, Sean. Thanks. [/font]
[quote source="/post/14517/thread" timestamp="1440435856" author="@admin"]
If there are existing threads that we think should be considered as an FAQ thread we can also have it moved as needed.
[/quote][font size="3"]Sean and Christian: [/font][font size="3"]I'm really glad to see this development with LL support and the FAQ section.
[/font][font size="3"]A first candidate for treatment should be the gray water tank vent problem. Lots of posts about this since several of us had this problem. For Christian: Verify that Production is aware of this issue and has corrected it in future builds so prospective buyers know it's been fixed. This confirmation should be in the public section. A couple of enterprising owners detailed how they fixed their CLs, but it was a job.
Same sort of attention to the bent coupler problem. Some response from the factory would be nice. I think the simple addition of two side bolts would be sufficient.
[/font]
I would also like something definitive from the factory about the whole "brakeaway brake battery doesn't get recharged by....anything" issue.
[quote source="/post/14535/thread" timestamp="1440454718" author="@pinstriper"]I would also like something definitive from the factory about the whole "brakeaway brake battery doesn't get recharged by....anything" issue.[/quote][font size="3"]Good point. As you can see, Christian, you've got some homework and catching up to do. Shoot me some posts or PMs if you need some help clarifying the issues.[/font]
[quote source="/post/14535/thread" timestamp="1440454718" author="@pinstriper"]I would also like something definitive from the factory about the whole "brakeaway brake battery doesn't get recharged by....anything" issue.[/quote]Or where mine went to... Either the dealer removed it, or LL removed it because there are holes where it used to be.
Christian & Taylor, I just wanted to say hello and to thank you for your participation on this and other message boards. I'm happy to see the company having an interest in what the owners think and deal with. I am fortunate in that the QS 10.0 that I bought from the original owner has been problem free. We just got back from a 12 day trip that covered almost 2400 miles over 9 states with no problems from the camper. We will be in Indiana next month for a weekend, although without the camper, for a football game and hope to be able to stop at the factory.