On our way down from WA down to CA we had a steep sharp turn into a gas station that resulted in some awful noises and strange vibrations. At the time I didn't think anything of it (pretty typical for WDH), but later that night I saw this:
(http://i.imgur.com/fFkQgLK.jpg"%20style="max-width:50%;)
(http://i.imgur.com/TFEt8gJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JqcQgbk.jpg"%20style="max-width:50%;)
(http://i.imgur.com/IBhdJ6s.jpg"%20style="max-width:50%;)
(http://i.imgur.com/PII23vN.jpg)
[img style="max-width:25%;" src="http://i.imgur.com/0g3K7oP.jpg"]
[img style="max-width:25%;" src="http://i.imgur.com/Ewqbjwm.jpg"]
The original coupler was just pressed steel resting on a riveted rod. The new coupler has a cast head with a solid wedge that doesn't strain any bolts or mechanisms under load, it's just compressing chunks of metal under load. Next I'll drill the four holes and bolt it on. Stay tuned...
Well, the bending of the coupler is one thing and the new one looks to be about 3" longer which will change your bracket attachment point and probably interfere with the LPG tank.
I would be just as concerned about where the bracket attaches to the frame. It took some pretty severe loads to bend those bolts and I would be concerned about the strength of the underlying aluminum when exposed to those kind of forces. What kind of WDH do you have?
As I have stated a few times in the past, if I had purchased a 21' rather than the 16' we ended up with, I would have probably strengthened the frame by welding aluminum doublers from the hitch to the trailer box so I could install a WDH safely. LL obviously had some problem with the frame strength in the past which is why they don't recommend WDHs- which is putting your head in the sand. A guy at LL that I talked to sort of admitted that if you had a heavy torsion bar and cranked it down tight, it could bend the frame when going over a sharp transition. I think he was speaking from experience.
So consider the frame as well as the coupler as you deal with this issue. Also could you post some pics of the rig when it is all back together. The lightweight Reese WDH that I am familiar with uses the bottom of the bracket as a sliding friction surface, so the torsion bar slides in a turn and it would not have resulted in the kind of forces yours experienced.
David
[quote source="/post/13209/thread" author="@david" timestamp="1436897198"]Well, the bending of the coupler is one thing and the new one looks to be about 3" longer which will change your bracket attachment point and probably interfere with the LPG tank.[/quote]
I moved the tanks forward for this WDH, it wouldn't be a big deal to move the back and put the brackets in front if I needed to.
[quote source="/post/13209/thread" timestamp="1436897198" author="@david"]I would be just as concerned about where the bracket attaches to the frame. It took some pretty severe loads to bend those bolts and I would be concerned about the strength of the underlying aluminum when exposed to those kind of forces.[/quote]
Luckily the frame is fine. No denting or bending anywhere. The WDH I had was a fastway e2 and I actually blame the whole thing on how close they put those stupid bolts. 1.5" of distance between them with a long bracket being forced back and forth isn't the best design. On the big daddy of this (the equalizer) they put the frame bracket bolts all the way through the L-brackets so it has 5" or so to control it better.
Quote from: @david" timestamp="1436897198" source="/post/13209/threadAs I have stated a few times in the past, if I had purchased a 21' rather than the 16' we ended up with, I would have probably strengthened the frame by welding aluminum doublers from the hitch to the trailer box so I could install a WDH safely. LL obviously had some problem with the frame strength in the past which is why they don't recommend WDHs- which is putting your head in the sand. A guy at LL that I talked to sort of admitted that if you had a heavy torsion bar and cranked it down tight, it could bend the frame when going over a sharp transition. I think he was speaking from experience.
So consider the frame as well as the coupler as you deal with this issue. Also could you post some pics of the rig when it is all back together. The lightweight Reese WDH that I am familiar with uses the bottom of the bracket as a sliding friction surface, so the torsion bar slides in a turn and it would not have resulted in the kind of forces yours experienced.
David
After this experience I'll actually be switching to the Andersen WDH because it just pulls on the frame lengthwise. I don't think it will be as effective at transferring the weight, but it will smooth out the ride and be gentler on the trailer. I specifically picked the wedge latch coupler because the Andersen puts pressure on the back of the coupler. The wedge will take that pressure without a sweat. Our Sequoia handles the tongue weight just fine even without WDH (it only drops an inch or so) but I'd rather have the Andersen than nothing at all to help with bouncing and swaying.
[font size="3"]TT,
FWIW I added the foam tape back on when I replaced my coupler. I think (always dangerous) it was an attempt to separate dissimilar metals. Maybe not effective, but it didn't cost much and can't hurt.
Will the extra few inches let you put the L-brackets in front of the gas tanks like my round bars?
EDIT: OK. Question answered.
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[quote source="/post/13212/thread" timestamp="1436900079" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]TT,
FWIW I added the foam tape back on when I replaced my coupler. I think (always dangerous) it was an attempt to separate dissimilar metals. Maybe not effective, but it didn't cost much and can't hurt.
Will the extra few inches let you put the L-brackets in front of the gas tanks like my round bars?
[/font][/quote]Interesting on the separation. In that case I might put a rubber sheet between them. The jury is still out on where everything will end up once it's back together. You probably missed my last post where I mentioned that I'm switching to the Andersen WDH. That gives me significantly more flexibility on where to place everything because I can add/remove links on the chain. I actually like where the tanks are now because I plan on putting a larger battery box behind it (not for a larger battery, but for more "stuff").
As an aside, when Andy at CanAm recommended the EAZLift Elite for my Ford Flex/21BHS setup, I think the fact that it uses "saddles" so that no drilling was required was part of the reason. Also used a clamp-on ball for the Husky anti-sway for the same reason.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3854/14920189552_e8f709d67b_c.jpg)i did swap the positions of the propane tanks and the battery to get more vertical chain runs.
[quote source="/post/13216/thread" timestamp="1436901757" author="@fasteddieb"]As an aside, when Andy at CanAm recommended the EAZLift Elite for my Ford Flex/21BHS setup, I think the fact that it uses "saddles" so that no drilling was required was part of the reason. Also used a clamp-on ball for the Husky anti-sway for the same reason.[/quote]
The E2 and the Andersen are both clamp-on designs also. The E2's brackets have to withstand both vertical and horizontal forces though and the horizontal was what caused it to fail.
The one issue I have with the tongue upgrade is going from a 2" to a 2 5/16" ball has a domino effect. It would require changing the TV side of things as well as the Andersen WD hitch components.
[quote source="/post/13222/thread" timestamp="1436908835" author="@shovelhead"]The one issue I have with the tongue upgrade is going from a 2" to a 2 5/16" ball has a domino effect. It would require changing the TV side of things as well as the Andersen WD hitch components.[/quote]I'm changing everything at once, so I just ordered the 2-5/16" Andersen hitch. I figured if I'm changing everything, I might as well go for the larger ball.
The coupler went on fairly smoothly. The stock holes on the back of the coupler ended up being in the correct spot, but had to be widened from 3/8" to 1/2". Once I drilled those I test fit it and then traced the two front holes with it on the trailer. The jack hole ended up being slightly further back from the bottom plate, so I had to dremel it back about another 1/16" or so. Although the coupler sides were lined with holes for horizontal bolts, only the front one is accessible through the frame tube openings. So I did install some 3/8" grade 8 bolts at the very front for good measure. There was a small gap between the coupler sides and the frame that was snugly filled with one washer. I was finishing up in the dark and didn't get to take pictures... will post those tomorrow, probably after the Andersen installation (it was just delivered today).
Here's the new setup:
[img style="" style="max-width:50%;" src="http://i.imgur.com/RMahToG.jpg"]
Took it for a test drive this afternoon and it feels really good. I asked for one too many links at the hardware store, so I'll have to chop one off, but it works well with my existing tank placement after 1 quick-link and 2 extra links. Didn't have a tape measure to do any real analysis on weight transfer, but it looks and feels level, so I'm happy with that for now. I'll do some more analysis once I get some time to breathe (we're doing all this during a trip).
Unless I missed it, what brand and where did you get the 2 5/16" coupler at, do you have the part number?
After only 5 campouts my Stock 2" coupler is showing wear, no reason to replace it with the same unit, I would rather upgrade as you did.
In about 6 weeks my TV will be a F350, so I can stop using the WDH. (I'll have it stored in the Bearcat but I shouldn't need it anymore)
[quote source="/post/13507/thread" timestamp="1437673428" author="@swbc150"]Unless I missed it, what brand and where did you get the 2 5/16" coupler at, do you have the part number?
After only 5 campouts my Stock 2" coupler is showing wear, no reason to replace it with the same unit, I would rather upgrade as you did.
In about 6 weeks my TV will be a F350, so I can stop using the WDH. (I'll have it stored in the Bearcat but I shouldn't need it anymore)[/quote]Here's the coupler I used:
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD44150WH301.html
We made it back to WA (a 1,200 mile trip) without any issues on the new hitch. I did some experimenting with the amount of tension to put on the springs and found a setting that I liked. Unlike the conventional WDH where you have fixed increments (bolt holes or chain links) you can make much more detailed adjustments with Andersen's tension nuts. You can also make them in a matter of seconds, so each time I'd stop for gas I'd make a tweak to see if I noticed a difference.
Overall it rides really smooth with no noise at all. The biggest difference that I noticed is that when you fly off a freeway transition (CA roads are like motocross courses) the bounce seems like it's actually dampened. With our previous WDH it would bounce less, but it felt more like a spring. The Andersen feels more like a shock.
Looks good, I'm in the process of setting up the same rig, I really don't know why LL just doesn't go with the HD setup. I will need to purchase a new ball for the Anderson hitch, its about $50.
[quote source="/post/13822/thread" timestamp="1438267125" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/13507/thread" timestamp="1437673428" author="@swbc150"]Unless I missed it, what brand and where did you get the 2 5/16" coupler at, do you have the part number?
After only 5 campouts my Stock 2" coupler is showing wear, no reason to replace it with the same unit, I would rather upgrade as you did.
In about 6 weeks my TV will be a F350, so I can stop using the WDH. (I'll have it stored in the Bearcat but I shouldn't need it anymore)[/quote]Here's the coupler I used:
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD44150WH301.html
[/quote]Got it ordered Today. My 16F350 came in on Monday, have a campout towards the end of this month coming up and want this upgrade on the Bearcat.
Quote from: @pjcd" source="/post/14830/thread" timestamp="1441329709I will need to purchase a new ball for the Anderson hitch, its about $50.
I guess you could always sell the old one on Ebay. Did you try contacting them about doing an exchange? They've been really easy to work with.
I'll give it a shot, but sometimes it'll cost you something to learn a lesson. 8^)
[img style="max-width:100%;" style="" src="http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss145/pjcdemil/IMG_2653_zps4nzfaj70.jpg"]Just replaced my coupler, little bit of trouble, nothing serious.
[quote timestamp="1436936968" author="@tinkeringtechie" source="/post/13245/thread"]The coupler went on fairly smoothly. The stock holes on the back of the coupler ended up being in the correct spot, but had to be widened from 3/8" to 1/2". Once I drilled those I test fit it and then traced the two front holes with it on the trailer. The jack hole ended up being slightly further back from the bottom plate, so I had to dremel it back about another 1/16" or so. Although the coupler sides were lined with holes for horizontal bolts, only the front one is accessible through the frame tube openings. So I did install some 3/8" grade 8 bolts at the very front for good measure. There was a small gap between the coupler sides and the frame that was snugly filled with one washer. I was finishing up in the dark and didn't get to take pictures... will post those tomorrow, probably after the Andersen installation (it was just delivered today).[/quote]I just got done replacing mine, same set up. I was wondering, you said that you put grade 8 bolts on yours,,,,, I replaced mine with the same, but being the observant person I am, I noticed that the old bolt were also grade 8, well dah! I guess it doesn't hurt to put new hardware on. Were your old bolts a grade 8? Did you torque the bolts or just put the death grip on them?
Quote from: @pjcd" timestamp="1442090978" source="/post/15194/threadQuote from: @tinkeringtechie" source="/post/13245/thread" timestamp="1436936968The coupler went on fairly smoothly. The stock holes on the back of the coupler ended up being in the correct spot, but had to be widened from 3/8" to 1/2". Once I drilled those I test fit it and then traced the two front holes with it on the trailer. The jack hole ended up being slightly further back from the bottom plate, so I had to dremel it back about another 1/16" or so. Although the coupler sides were lined with holes for horizontal bolts, only the front one is accessible through the frame tube openings. So I did install some 3/8" grade 8 bolts at the very front for good measure. There was a small gap between the coupler sides and the frame that was snugly filled with one washer. I was finishing up in the dark and didn't get to take pictures... will post those tomorrow, probably after the Andersen installation (it was just delivered today).
I just got done replacing mine, same set up. I was wondering, you said that you put grade 8 bolts on yours,,,,, I replaced mine with the same, but being the observant person I am, I noticed that the old bolt were also grade 8, well dah! I guess it doesn't hurt to put new hardware on. Were your old bolts a grade 8?
The old ones were also grade 8 and I reused them. The ones I was referring to in my post were additional bolts that I added on the side:
[a href="http://imgur.com/RhpQWqV"]
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i.imgur.com/RhpQWqV.png"]
[/a]I probably would have added a few more for good measure, but those were the only ones that I could reach with a wrench.
Thanks, I may throw a couple on the side as well.
[font size="3"]You're in better shape with the heavier coupler, but put two side bolts in to be absolutely sure. Had LL put them in we probably all would still have the OEM coupler.
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I'm going to add the bolts on the side, however I really don't see it making any difference, none of the factory couplers have any and the way this new one is designed it would take a tremendous amount of torque to bend it. The four bolts on top are doing all the work. They have a tensile strength of around 150,000 psi.
[font size="3"]The side bolts make a tremendous difference. The problem is not the top bolts, but the bending of the coupler. Take a look at the pictures on the bent coupler thread. The point of greatest stress is just forward of the two front top bolts. That's where the old coupler bent. In general these couplers are designed to be welded to a steel frame all along the edges. The one you and TinkeringTechie used is designed to be bolted along the sides in most of those holes. That's where the strength comes from. If you look at the LL toy haulers you will see the side bolts.
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(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss145/pjcdemil/IMG_2655_zpsno7yirgu.jpg)I couldn't agree with you more, the coupler that came with the trailer is only rated for 5000 lbs, the new coupler is 15000 lbs, I did add the side bolts, and the added security is worth the effort, but do you really think that there would be a chance the new coupler would ever bend? BTW, when I took off the old coupler, you could see that it was deformed from where the trailer jack was attached, it looked like the weight of the trailer alone was causing it to buckle. LL really needs to dump that POS and put a more robust coupler on, at least for this model.
[font size="3"]The coupler rating is more related to the ball size rating and assumes the coupler is properly applied and installed. Going by weight and measurement I think the new coupler is about 1.5 times as heavy/thick, maybe more for the cast Bulldog. Therefore it is stronger by design, but without the side bolts or weld the geometry is the same. The for top bolts with no side bolts is just a poor application of the part. If you never use WDH you'd never see a problem. With any significant weight distribution I'd never feel confidant without the side bolts. Of course the strongest would be a steel coupler welded to a steel tongue, but you can't do that with our aluminum frames. With the side bolts I don't expect any bending. Without side bolts, even with the stronger coupler, I can't say for sure. Only time would tell.
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Well, like I said, its added piece of mind, I'm going to add a couple more bolts at a later date, I'll have to pull the top bolts in order to get it done.
I have a Anderson WDH, but don't know if i'll use it, I took the trailer out on a 250 mile trip with out a WDH or sway bar, I tow with a Chevy diesel and didn't notice any ill effects, (I was passing tractor trailers and they were passing me and didn't notice any issues). Normally I would tow with all the add ons, but this is the lightest travel tailer I've owned and it seems to tow just fine with out them.
When putting the side bolts in (through the side of the coupler), did you have to do something to prevent collapsing (denting) the hollow aluminum frame? I'm having a hard time visualizing how you can crank down on and tighten those bolts without the frame bending in.
[quote source="/post/15640/thread" timestamp="1443569442" author="@gbpack"]When putting the side bolts in (through the side of the coupler), did you have to do something to prevent collapsing (denting) the hollow aluminum frame? I'm having a hard time visualizing how you can crank down on and tighten those bolts without the frame bending in.[/quote]They only go through the outer wall. Both Charlie and I put washers between the coupler and frame to make sure that it wasn't pulled out either. Basically you're making a metal sandwich with no gaps before you apply the bolts so nothing moves.
Same here, there was a small gap between the frame and the coupler, I used "grade eight" bolts, washers, and nuts.
[font size="3"]Here's how I did it. This is a shot looking rearward into the area where the left and right frame tubes come together. The nuts are inside the frame members. Use Grade 8 high strength 1/2" bolts, flats as needed, and lock washers.
[attachment id="949" thumbnail="1"]
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Thanks guys! When our trailer comes in I will make sure that there are bolts on the side of the coupler. If not, now I know how to do it!