This weekend was the 2nd trip with our new 2015 10.0. It was the first time we got rain & we found out the the tent was leaking at 7 - 8 places.
It seems that all of the infiltrations are coming from seams. Really disapointing from a new tent...
I have contacted my selling dealer & they told me to spray the tent with a impermeabilization spray & to pay attention to seams.
Anybody with leaking tent? What have you done to solve this issue?
Thanks for your help on this!
Kinyo
Mine is leaking also, 8.0. I followed the manual and conditioned it many time but the seams still leak. I am currently trying to resolve the issue.
What is impermeabilization spray?
I have a QS 10.0 that is a couple years old at this point and I guess I've been a lucky one compared to some of the newer tents. I have not had to deal with leaks at all, despite the sometimes disconcerting amount of space that seems to show up at the seams. If I recall the idea behind conditioning the seams is to allow them to swell, thus preventing leaks. If this is not working you might consider a more traditional seam sealer option. I have used Nikwax and GearAid in the past for more traditional waterproofing needs and I see no reason for them to have a problem here.
The other tip I would add is to avoid having pillows and blankets pushed up against the tent material during rain storms if you can. Even if you are not experiencing a leak, fabrics that touch the seams can act as a wick.
Quote from: @admin" timestamp="1434984696" source="/post/12573/thread
The other tip I would add is to avoid having pillows and blankets pushed up against the tent material during rain storms if you can. Even if you are not experiencing a leak, fabrics that touch the seams can act as a wick.
[font size="3"]From back in my old tent camping days the rule was, "Nothing touches the canvas."[/font]
I have a 2012 6.0 that I purchased slightly used from a dealer. I've camped several times when a pretty intense storm came up, but I was completely dry inside. Glad for that. I believe that new canvas is supposed to be "conditioned" by being soaked down and left to dry in the sun. I never did that since my unit was used and I assumed that the previous owner took care of that. I do recall that there may be an issue with the tents on the newer models. Did LL change vendors recently? Not sure.
I think LL did confirm to a few people that they had changed vendors for the canvas within the last few years. I dont recall the specific time frame but based on my experience vs other it appears to be around 2013.
I believe Aqualon is the manufacturer. This is the same company who makes the tenting for Starcraft from my understanding. I believe I recall a tag on my 2006 not saying Aqualon, but after researching its the same company just a different name for the tenting product
If I were you i'd leave it out in the rain or soak it down with a hose. I believe you are in QC so you've been getting some of the rain and humidity we've had in the Midwest. Find a good weather forecast when you'll have morning rain and afternoon sun and try that to get the seams to swell. The old duck fabric in the 60's was similar as it needed to get wet before it wouldn't leak. If I were you I would not use seam sealer on it. If it still leaks after soaking it again and then letting it dry have the manufacturer replace it.
[quote source="/post/12573/thread" timestamp="1434984696" author="@admin"]I have a QS 10.0 that is a couple years old at this point and I guess I've been a lucky one compared to some of the newer tents. I have not had to deal with leaks at all, despite the sometimes disconcerting amount of space that seems to show up at the seams. [font color="#f34a0b"]If I recall the idea behind conditioning the seams is to allow them to swell, thus preventing leaks.[/font] If this is not working you might consider a more traditional seam sealer option. I have used Nikwax and GearAid in the past for more traditional waterproofing needs and I see no reason for them to have a problem here.
The other tip I would add is to avoid having pillows and blankets pushed up against the tent material during rain storms if you can. Even if you are not experiencing a leak, fabrics that touch the seams can act as a wick. [/quote]I've been pretty concerned about this recurring question since our 8.1 is now 5 full years old and has been practically abused. Just last year we were out 99 consecutive days in 30 different camps. Every season for 5 seasons we have been out for at least 60 days each. The QS is designed as a weekender but we can attest they can handle a lot more! We are still on the factory tent, which was soaked down by Mother N. our second night out in 2010, leaked maaaybe 1/4 cup of water on one end and has never leaked one single drop since. Sean, you have it right, at least as far as what was supposed to happen. It happened with your tent, and it happened with ours, but my concern stems from knowing that a 5-year-old tent at some point has to wear out, and I frankly worry about getting a, $800 "bad" tent as a replacement. We have long since lost track of how many thunderstorms we have been through, cloudbursts, days of soaking rain on end, ferocious windstorms that we feared would bend the bars, yet Rose never, ever leaks. We aren't even especially careful about not touching the wet canvas because it has a plastic coating. If water gets in, it's because we track it in, or it blows in because we always leave a few corners of the canvas open for ventilation.
So I share the concerns and irritation of owners with new tents that leak, keep leaking, need to be seam sealed (and the manual says nothing about that because so far as I know it should not be necessary, and besides repeated applications of seam sealer still don't work). Honestly I think that's just wrong, and I really wish Scott Tuttle himself would weigh in on this and provide some explanation, or at least reassurance that Livin' Lite cares deeply about happy customers. We are the happiest of customers, love to talk up our tiny home-away-from-home, even carry some brochures (!!) to hand out, but I don't want to tell a stranger about a wonderful (not to mention seriously spendy) product that turns out not to be so wonderful. I have said this before: [font color="#f34a0b"]Livin' Lite, if you are getting bad tents, get a better supplier![/font]
Veada is the tent maker on my 8.0, it leaks.
I agree with you, chuck893- LL simply needs to step up on this issue.
I did what my selling told me. I have sealed the seam where it was leaking past weekend. Also the tent is in my driveway since last sunday and it rain 3-4 times since then, so it should be properly seasoned now. The seam sealer need 24 hours to cure properly so I will do a leak test tomorow night. I need to get this issue fixed, we are leaving soon for a 16 day trip from Mtl to Charleston SC with our 2 yrs old girl. It`s really annoying being waken up at night with water dripping on my head and matress. I bought this trailer because we were done with sleeping on the floor and with water infiltration in a regular tent. I hope the sealer + tent seasoning will work! I'll keep you posted!
Thanks everyone for your help!
Here is an update:
On last friday night, I have leak tested the tent with my garden hose for a good 15-20 minutes.
Not even a drop of water inside the tent after the test!
I have sealed the outside seams with this spray:
http://www.mec.ca/product/5018-964/nikwax-tent-and-gear-solar-proof-500ml/
and sealed the inside seams with this stuff:
http://www.mec.ca/product/5002-946/gear-aid-silnet-silicone-seam-sealer/?icid=faithful_companion_mec_silicone_guides_tarp
Both were really easy to apply and the complete job took less than 1 hour. I let the Silnet cure for a good 48 hours before water testing.
I will never know if it's the week of leaving the tent in the driveway with a lot of rain and sun shine that seasoned the tent and resolved the infiltrations or it's the sealing job that work, but i'm glad that this problem seem to be fixed.
I'll keep you posted on the results when we hit out first rain while campaing. And in case, I have a new spare tube in the tent :)
Kinyo
Our 8.0 leaks horribly. Brand new 2015. Leaks in all four corners at the seams. Our family vacation was ruined. We will call the dealer tomorrow and try to unload this lemon. Hugely disappointing.
[quote source="/post/13012/thread" timestamp="1436399327" author="@suzannehb"]Our 8.0 leaks horribly. Brand new 2015. Leaks in all four corners at the seams. Our family vacation was ruined. We will call the dealer tomorrow and try to unload this lemon. Hugely disappointing.
[/quote]Please don't give up on it if you haven't already. Please go look at this brand-new thread. http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/1294/leaks Ron had a terrible time with his new 10 (and he wasn't the only one), but he got a replacement tent under warranty and his new one behaves like ours always has; zero leaks. We've had our 8.1 since 2010, thousands of miles, hundreds of camps, exposure to UV, terrible storms, windstorms... No damage and no leaks, ever. LL has obviously made some mistakes with tent manufacturers, but I think they have it solved now, and they certainly have a vested interest in keeping customers happy. All manufacturers do! Please don't give up. We love our Quicksilver. We've almost loved her to death, but she's still hangin' in. :D
(Maintenance costs are very low. The wheels need greasing about every 8,000 miles. We had a zipper fail and had it replaced at a tent and awning place---boat cover people do it too. We've had to replace some snaps on the tonneau. I'm hopeless at doing stuff so we've had it done. I'd guesstimate our maintenance costs have averaged less than $120 bucks a year. Quicksilver's a pretty cheap date.)
It is not good to have a leaking tent. I just bought a 2013 Quicksilver 10. I had it set up in driveway during two day of recent Houston rain and no leaks!! And supposedly I have one of the old tents that weren't good.
Any updates Susanne ?
I've been tenting for 50 years now. I don't own a QS yet, but its basically a tent on top of an aluminum box. So all the issues I have had with tents are going to be something to watch out for with the QS.
I have a motorcycle pop up camper, its a tent on top of a fiberglass box (Bunkhouse brand). In my experience so far, tent leaks are all about seams. That's why pretty much any camping store sells a myriad of seam sealers. If/when I acquire a QS, I will be setting it up in the yard, either waiting for a good rain storm, or dragging out the hose and going to town. I'll leave it in the sun to dry, then repeat a couple of times.
I'm definitely NOT taking it on a big trip until I know it doesn't leak.
While I have been considering a used unit, this thread encourages me to look at a new one, as a warranty would come in handy if the tent is defective. Replacing tents is expensive for Livin Lite, terrible for their reputation, and a hassle for the customer.
I wonder do they use tape on all seams, like most good tents use?
Thriftybill,
How do you like your Bunkouse camper? I am have a QS 6.0 but I can't set it up if I am alone. I would really like something I can tow with my puny Chevy Cavalier that I can set up and take down by myself.
I have been looking at other motorcycle campers and am interested in an Aspen Ambassador (based in Chicago suburb). Are you at all familiar with that brand?
Thanks!
I own a 6.0, no issues yet with leaks, putting it up alone is time consuming, but it can be done. It took less time to set up my old Coleman pop up, (when doing it alone).
pjcd- My problem is I am short and I don't have the strength to ooomph the top open by myself. I could probably get it closed up alone though. I keep thinking I need a system to jack it up past vertical so it can "fall" open. I had someone make a brace to "catch" it so it doesn't fall too far open and put too much pressure on the hinges, but I just can't oomph it open alone unfortunately. And since I am 62 yrs old it will only get harder for me as I get older.
lillipets- your right, flipping the bed by yourself can be iffy. it definitely goes up easier with two people.
[quote source="/post/12802/thread" timestamp="1435593254" author="@kinyo"]Here is an update:
On last friday night, I have leak tested the tent with my garden hose for a good 15-20 minutes.
Not even a drop of water inside the tent after the test!
I have sealed the outside seams with this spray:
http://www.mec.ca/product/5018-964/nikwax-tent-and-gear-solar-proof-500ml/
and sealed the inside seams with this stuff:
http://www.mec.ca/product/5002-946/gear-aid-silnet-silicone-seam-sealer/?icid=faithful_companion_mec_silicone_guides_tarp
Both were really easy to apply and the complete job took less than 1 hour. I let the Silnet cure for a good 48 hours before water testing.
I will never know if it's the week of leaving the tent in the driveway with a lot of rain and sun shine that seasoned the tent and resolved the infiltrations or it's the sealing job that work, but i'm glad that this problem seem to be fixed.
I'll keep you posted on the results when we hit out first rain while campaing. And in case, I have a new spare tube in the tent :)
Kinyo[/quote]SO glad the problem has been fixed (hopefully it's permanent!). If you run into any more issues or need help, PLEASE don't hesitate to contact me. I would be happy to put you in touch with customer service! Happy camping :-)
Quote from: @suzannehb" timestamp="1436399327" source="/post/13012/threadOur 8.0 leaks horribly. Brand new 2015. Leaks in all four corners at the seams. Our family vacation was ruined. We will call the dealer tomorrow and try to unload this lemon. Hugely disappointing.
Suzanne,
I am so sorry to hear that you've been having issues with your 8.0. Though an apology doesn't get you back your family vacation, it is the first step in making this right! I have private messaged you to see how I can help on behalf of Livin Lite.
Thanks!
Quote from: @lillipets" source="/post/13953/thread" timestamp="1438720732Thriftybill,
How do you like your Bunkouse camper? I am have a QS 6.0 but I can't set it up if I am alone. I would really like something I can tow with my puny Chevy Cavalier that I can set up and take down by myself.
I have been looking at other motorcycle campers and am interested in an Aspen Ambassador (based in Chicago suburb). Are you at all familiar with that brand?
Thanks!
I have owned an Aspen and the Bunkhouse. The Bunkhouse has a nicer finish for sure, and better resale. Both are very similar functionally. Either is super easy to set up by yourself, both are super light weight, around 300 pounds. Whenever someone asks me how much does it weigh, I ask them how much does your gear weigh? If you put 300 pounds of stuff in it, the weight goes up accordingly.
On motorcycle camping on longer trips, the Bunkhouse and Aspen both just don't tow as nice as my little tear drop cargo trailer (Escapade). So I tow it instead. But my wife will not sleep on the ground. So if we are going together, I am taking the bunkhouse. Realize towing behind a two wheel vehicle is quite different than towing behind a car. And a boxy trailer that might be really small behind a car, is pretty big behind a motorcycle. You notice it on two wheels. And a little sideways push that you would not notice on a truck will make you pucker up on a motorcycle.
We have a full sized pickup along with a small Honda Element. The Element is really limited towing wise, so I have been thinking about pulling the Bunkhouse behind it. Then again, my F150 is so much more comfortable.
The Bunkhouse is really the standard of the motorcycle pop-up industry. Everything gets compared to it. IMHO, the Bunkhouse is the best of that type of pop-up.
Behind my pickup truck, the QS sounds better. Sink, dinette, AC, two beds, heat, stove. All are features that are missing from the Bunkhouse (you can add an AC).
For what they are, both the Bunkhouse and Aspen have good storage. Of course, motorcycle travelers are used to packing light, really light. I rarely/never have the storage on the camper full.
The other really NICE thing about the Bunkhouse and the Aspen is they take up very little space in the garage. I turn them 90 degrees and store them in front of my car. I haven't measured it, but its something like 4 feet wide, and maybe 8 or 9 feet long including the tongue. And its so light, its easy to more around.
I'm sorry the dealer let you down like that. After the tent has been soaked and died it should seal up. My 10.0 has been through a bunch of storms with no leaks. It still surprises me because I can see light through some of the stitching but still no leaks.
I got mine and camped the next weekend without sealing the seams. I had a towel and paper towels ready, but mine made it through the storm without leaking. I have a 2016 6.0 and they went back to Top Stitch which had worked well before the years of complaints with another manufacturer, from what I've read on the forum.
I can see light through my seams, too.
Lilipets, I can get the top up, but I have read about people who have a padded pole to keep it from flopping down too fast. I might need to get that, too.
Our 2014 8.0 has been through a lot of rain and has stayed dry as a bone (knock on wood). It was brand new when we bought it but I think I remember the dealer telling us they had used it at a camping show for demonstration purposes. I keep it set up in the yard all summer, except if I know high winds are approaching so it sees lots of weather. I often wonder if constantly yard camping is depleting the canvas of it's wear value for "actual" camping. We don't get out nearly as often as I'd like and to me, yard camping is my happy place when I have to be home. Any opinions?
[quote timestamp="1468077123" source="/post/22881/thread" author="@debiski"]Our 2014 8.0 has been through a lot of rain and has stayed dry as a bone (knock on wood). It was brand new when we bought it but I think I remember the dealer telling us they had used it at a camping show for demonstration purposes. I keep it set up in the yard all summer, except if I know high winds are approaching so it sees lots of weather. I often wonder if constantly yard camping is depleting the canvas of it's wear value for "actual" camping. We don't get out nearly as often as I'd like and to me, yard camping is my happy place when I have to be home. Any opinions?[/quote]We are not even sure how many days and nights of camping we've managed with our 8.1 since 2010, but it's a lot. We camped to tour after retirement, so we'd go out for literal months, camping all the way. In 2014 we were out for 99 straight days in "high summer" all over the American west. Rosie is still on her original tent, though storm, wind (on that trip we thought once we were gonna lose her in Colorado when the wind was gusting to over 60 mph), hail, you name it. The original tent still holds, and I've wondered how long that can keep up because of the intense UV she's been exposed to, sometimes camping at 7 or 8,000 feet. We had to pull in our horns last year because of inevitable health issues so our camping days seem to be behind us, but it was a great run while it lasted, and Rose still probably has some outings left in her if we can manage it. I'm not saying you shouldn't worry about the UV exposure (I did), but if it gets some shade from trees or something it may be tougher than we think. :)
I keep the camper parked on the east side of the house, so it sees sun for 4-5 hours a day. The remainder of the day it's shaded by the house (see picture). The house also blocks nearly ALL wind and a good amount of rainfall. It's tucked in by the house, a large tree, and the neighbor's garage so she's pretty protected.
In case anyone is wondering why it's parked so CLOSE to the house...that's actually our property line. Our neighbors said they didn't care if we made it wider but I didn't want it to become an issue in the future so we just kept the pad small.
[attachment id="1558" thumbnail="1"]
I purchased our 2015 8.1 used in May 2016. Previous owner said he only had it out 3 times. Very little wear showing on it. I was impressed in the design as I owned a 1968 Cox 412 in the 80's and the design is very similar. The Cox was steel framed and aluminum covered wood walls. Much heavier but had 75 Caddy to pull it. I put a new top on it from Canvas Replacements in Wisconsin. Heavy cotton duck with all flat seams sewn 4 stitches wide with heavy cotton thread. Fitted it and hosed it down never had the first leak. Sadly camper got worn out.
Fast forward 2016. We took grandkids camping in 8.1 on June 10. Hard rain first day. Leaked along each horizontal seam on the ends and along the side seam where roof meets side panels. Not a great deal but any is too much. You can see light thru the stitch holes and I plan on getting sealer on the inside when we set back up this weekend in Missouri. Since was used I didn't contact Livin Lite about it. I can tell you this, the needle used was too large for the size thread used. I made replacement cover for my 25' Carver Monterey rear with sunbrella and you need to match the needle to thread size. Also, possibly they used synthetic thread which won't swell like cotton will when wet. Standing bias cap seams on the outside also will act as mini gutters on the high horizontal seams. Gravity pulls water down thru the stitch holes.
Will give an update as to how the seam sealing works.
Charlie
Honestly the camper is made to be used. If you are enjoying the backyard camping while waiting to go on a trip than I say go for it. The truth is UV damage will occur but I'm willing to bet that other pieces will wear out before you have to replace the canvas simply due to UV damage.
As for leaking if you havent seen any leaks by now I would think you are going to be fine. Its been brought up a couple times around the forum which has narrowed down a few year where LL switch suppliers of the canvas tops which seems to be the root of the major leaking issues in the QS line. From the sounds of it they have since corrected this but time will tell.
We made our trip to Van Buren MO last week and I didn't use seam sealer so I could see if the prior downpour in June had possibly helped it. Last Wed we had a hard storm and were slightly protected by trees but still had a lot of hard rain hit us. Now I'm actually down to only 2 leaks and they were very minor. Since I haul freight and am out of town 5 days a week it is hard to set up and plan for taking it down before going back out. So I will check out either next time we go out or set it up in dry weather and check it.
I did have good luck with drying it off so we could leave campground on Wed evening. Took 4 ft ladder so can get our bikes down from atop the Tucson and we have extra towels that are large. Had my wife to hold each end slightly loose and got on the ladder and threw a towel halfway across at highest point like you would a car to dry it off. Works great.
Charlie
There is a tag on it like an upholstery tag on the inside sewn into one of the seams on the side the door is on.
Charlie