On my Camplite there is the standard factory-installed breakaway brake system. It is of course designed to automatically engage the trailer's electric brakes should the trailer become unhitched and the tether wire gets yanked by the uncoupled trailer or the tow vehicle. My question is does this system require any maintenance? I understand the black box on the trailer tongue that is associated with the system has the pull switch and a battery. Since I bought the trailer in 2012 I have not done anything to this system. I'm wondering in particular about the battery. The trailer has been unused since last fall and I don't keep it plugged in for the winter. I take my main trailer battery inside for the winter and occasionally put it on the charger -- but I never do anything with the breakaway battery. Should I?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
I don't think the breakaway battery charges off of the trailer electrical system. I charged battery up after buying my trailer last summer and I probably should do the same this weekend now that you reminded me!
On my 16TBS, the breakaway battery is not charged at all by the system. I have to take the cover off the box and charge it separately with my charger. I removed it for the winter and kept it charged in the garage. If the one in yours is also not charged by the system and hasn't been charged externally since 2012, it will be bad and need to be replaced. You can test it by checking the voltage. 12.7V is normal full charge, anything less than 12V is less than half charged and less than 11.5V is very not good.
Yikes. I will do some checking tomorrow in the daylight.
I think mine does have electrical wiring connected to the system's little black battery box. I have assumed that means the battery does receive a charge when shore power is supplied to the trailer. Now I'm not so sure.
Mine wasn't connected to the charging system on my 13 RDB. Had to buy a new one as the trailer sat on the lot and was already a year old. It likely froze over the winter. Will have to manual charge when its low.
I just read some guy noting he tests his breakaway system every time he hitches. I've never done that. I suppose you just yank the tether and listen for the breaks to clank on. I have always avoided yanking the tether because I didn't know if it is a resettable system. It would have been appropriate for LivinLite to include info about the system in the Owners Manual -- the copy I received doesn't.
You can pull the tether to test. It does reset when you put the tether back in. Don't leave the tether out because the battery will discharge quickly. And sure enough, it would be nice to have instructions from LL about this important safety device. It requires an isolator of some sort to charge 2 different batteries that are used for different purposes. That extra cost is probably why LL didn't charge the breakaway battery separately on my trailer.
[font face="comic sans ms" size="3"]The breakaway system on my 14DBS is not charged by the power panel and has to be done manually.
However, the attached link takes you to the breakaway system MFG web site called Jammy, INC.
It describes several breakaway systems for various trailers including the J-JKL system used on my trailer.
You can buy the battery charger that goes with the system to keep the battery charged. The model is : J-BCH .
It runs off the 12 volts of the main battery.
I don't know why LivinLite didn't utilize the whole system which included the charger, probably cost?
Look on the shiny label on the top of your battery box and it should tell you what model breakaway system you have.
Here's the link: http://www.jammyinc.com/Products/Breakaway/Breakaway.htm[/font]
Thanks.
I took the battery out. It was a bit of a tight squeeze because LivinLite had mounted the box for the breakaway system just under the edge of the aluminum frame associated with the house battery. That frame prevented the cover on the breakaway box from fully opening. They also secured the cover with a heavy duty cable tie kind of thingie that I had to cut off to open. For anyone who didn't know - it certainly looks like you aren't supposed to get in there.
I put the battery on my charger. The charger rejected the battery: the chargers lcd display lit up with "BAD". I'll assume the FM1250 sealed lead acid battery is shot and will need replacement.
I don't think I 'll change out the system for a self-charging version. Just knowing I need to maintain the system should be enough -- I can keep a battery charged and remove it from the trailer as part of the winterization.
Testing the switch will also be on my radar during the camping season. I might think about getting one of those cheap voltage displays on ebay and mounting it somewhere to show the state of charge. They can be amazingly inexpensive - like under five bucks & often have shipping from China included.
I might reconsider getting the product shortcircuit suggested. I found it for sale at >> [a href="http://www.diytrailerparts.com"]www.diytrailerparts.com[/a] << for $20.85 USD including the battery. The product listing is >>[a style="font-weight:bold;" href="http://www.diytrailerparts.com/Break-Away-Kit.htm#"]here[/a]<<. Unfortunately the site won't estimate the shipping cost to Canada. Still, at that price it is worth considering. I like that the charger has a test button to allow you to visually confirm the charge is working.
By the way it seems the tether switch LivinLite uses is made by the same manufacturer -- Jammy Inc.
There is another way to rig your breakaway system to be maintenance free. It was discussed on a previous thread on this topic.
Remove the battery and wire the +/- leads back to the main trailer battery. I am guessing 12 gauge wire would be fine, but try to match the existing wire. Put a 20 amp (again another guess, will have to measure current draw to be sure) on the positive wire near the main battery.
This will let your trailer battery be the break away battery. In my case since I monitor my main battery religiously, never let it discharge below 50%, even at 90% discharged the trailer battery has more capacity than the 5 AH break away battery, and the TV recharges it, I think it will work fine this way.
I think that this is better than trying to periodically recharge the small break away battery. Easy to forget about, which is exactly what I did. So I will do the wiring and fugitaboutit.
David
Thanks David.
Sometimes I'll move my trailer without the house battery installed. For example I have to take the trailer in for our required annual safety inspection in the next week or so and I may not install the battery first. I like the flexibility of not having to have the house battery installed. It is also a bit safer to use an independant battery (providing it is charged!) although I can see that is a minor point if a owner keeps a close watch on the state of the house battery.
I just ordered from Amazon Canada a >> [a href="http://www.tekonsha.com/products/brake-controllers/breakaway-kits/breakaway-system/TzaIxkVx1cK4oA%7C7AYnwqeXNvGZPdT4HNche9p5NF1w="]Tekensha 50-85-313[/a] << with free shipping. It seems to be very similar to the Jammy Inc. model but clarifies that the charger is multi-stage. I'll have it in a few days.
By the way here is how Tekonsha say to test your breakaway system. I doubt very many trailer owners ever do all this. :-S
QuoteTo test an electric breakaway system, you will have to have the trailer hitched to the tow vehicle. You will also want to check the state of charge in the breakaway battery, it should be fully charged. Step 1- Unplug the trailer connector from the tow vehicle. Step 2- Pull the pin straight out of the breakaway switch. This will require approximately 40 pounds of pull to remove the pin. Step 3- Attempt to pull the trailer with the tow vehicle. The trailer wheels will rotate a little, to apply the brakes. The brakes should then be set hard enough to not allow the trailer to roll freely. If the trailer rolls freely, service breakaway system or trailer brakes and retest. Step 4- Reinsert the pin into the breakaway switch and reconnect the trailer plug to the tow vehicle. NOTE: The lack of heavy brake application could be due to the brakes being out of adjustment, low breakaway battery voltage or a heavily loaded trailer.
Quote from: @david" source="/post/10576/thread" timestamp="1431195491There is another way to rig your breakaway system to be maintenance free. It was discussed on a previous thread on this topic.
Remove the battery and wire the +/- leads back to the main trailer battery. I am guessing 12 gauge wire would be fine, but try to match the existing wire. Put a 20 amp (again another guess, will have to measure current draw to be sure) on the positive wire near the main battery.
This will let your trailer battery be the break away battery. In my case since I monitor my main battery religiously, never let it discharge below 50%, even at 90% discharged the trailer battery has more capacity than the 5 AH break away battery, and the TV recharges it, I think it will work fine this way.
I think that this is better than trying to periodically recharge the small break away battery. Easy to forget about, which is exactly what I did. So I will do the wiring and fugitaboutit.
David
[font size="3"]Turns out there is a very simple way of implementing this mod. All the wires required are in the small rectangular junction box next to the breakaway battery.
[attachment id="911" thumbnail="1"]
The black wire from the breakaway switch to the positive of the breakaway [/font][font size="3"]battery [/font][font size="3"](BB)[/font][font size="3"] runs through this box and exits on the top left. It then goes directly to the BB positive. The second terminal from the left, with the heavy red wire on the bottom, is the house battery positive. That red wire goes directly to the [/font][font size="3"]positive of the [/font][font size="3"]house battery. So just disconnect the BB positive, pull a little slack into the junction box, cut and install a crimp lug, and connect to the second leftmost terminal. Remove BB and place on desk as paperweight.
A second option is to leave the BB in place and install a diode between the positives of the two batteries, anode to the house battery. This will maintain the BB charge, but will not allow the BB to discharge into the trailer load. Probably the best of both worlds, but more work. The brakes draw almost 14 amps so the diode would have to support this if the BB was discharged or defective. Probably would require some heat sinking on the diode.
BTW, seeing this relatively small wire connecting the house battery and the converter explains why I can get so much higher charging currents with jumper cables to the TV.
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Thanks for the reminder!
Never even looked at my breakaway battery. On the road camping and just checked it. 12.32v.
Will place it on a charger when we get home. Might trace the leads to that junction box and install a 2-conductor plug for my BatteryTender and maybe charge it before each trip.
One curiousity: We're hooked up to 15A shore power. In removing the cover to the junction box, I was sitting on the ground and lightly brushed my chin against the trailer frame and got a tiny "tingle". Nothing with my hand, but confirmed a second time with my chin.
Checked with my voltmeter and I'm showing 12v AC between the trailer frame and earth ground.
Is this at all normal, or something to worry about?
[font size="3"]Eddie,
There should not be any voltage between the frame and true ground. First guess is a faulty ground connection. Check extension cords, 30/15 amp adapters, and the 15 amp receptacle. Maybe even the wiring to the breaker, particularly if the receptacle is added and/or in an out building. There are stray capacitive paths to ground within the trailer that can electrify the frame. Eliminating this is the purpose of a safety ground.
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[font size="3" face="comic sans ms"]F.Y.I.
My brakes draw 8-1/2 amps on the breakaway battery when activated.[/font]
fasteddieb, Do something immediately about the "hot skin" condition of your trailer. Something is not right and that is a potentially very dangerous situation. You may have "only" 12V AC now, but whatever is causing that may get worse, or be intermittent, or enough to shock you. Here's an article about the problem:
http://www.noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-safety-part-iv-–-hot-skin/
If you can't isolate the problem right away, using your meter and NOT your chin, unplug the shore power until you can get things fully tested.
Thanks.
My next step is to unplug and see if there's voltage between the ground wire of the extension cord and earth ground.
The outlet is in a boathouse fed by a breaker panel. The wiring all looks pretty old and kind of jury-rigged.
I'll take pictures.
To avoid the hijack, spinning off to a new thread: "Hot Skin?".
[quote source="/post/10596/thread" timestamp="1431262889" author="@fasteddieb"]Thanks.
My next step is to unplug and see if there's voltage between the ground wire of the extension cord and earth ground.
The outlet is in a boathouse fed by a breaker panel. The wiring all looks pretty old and kind of jury-rigged.
I'll take pictures. [/quote][font size="3"]F. Eddie[/font],
[font size="3"]That may not be a conclusive test. The leakage path may be in the TT, therefore not present when you unplug. The leakage in the TT is normal and acceptable. The safety ground is supposed to protect against that, but appears not to in your case. If you have one of those cheap 3 light testers it should show the lack of ground fault. You could try to walk the line back, leaving the TT connected, and test at each connection, but that's difficult. Accessing the ground wire and testing to a real ground at each point would require creativity. If you disconnected the TT line where it first adapts to 15A and then run a continuity test to the house ground that might work. Bottom line, when connected, the trailer frame should be solidly connected to the house ground stake. Interesting problem.
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As an on-topic update...
...my breakaway battery came up to 13.18v after charging overnight. Probably a good thing to check quarterly or before long trips.
And back home on our very long extension cord, frame to earth ground measured .5vac.
I will still probably get in the habit of driving a ground stake regardless.
Similar thread for your reference
http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/523/brake-battery
I take it some of you don't have the same safety brake system as I do. Mine requires the large automotive battery and has no small one. This label is present on the hitch.
http://rs1312.pbsrc.com/albums/t521/minuteman1965/Mobile%20Uploads/14317019499351200095377_zpso5qeql4a.jpg~320x480
[quote source="/post/10850/thread" timestamp="1431702453" author="@whoofit"]I take it some of you don't have the same safety brake system as I do. Mine requires the large automotive battery and has no small one. This label is present on the hitch.
http://rs1312.pbsrc.com/albums/t521/minuteman1965/Mobile%20Uploads/14317019499351200095377_zpso5qeql4a.jpg~320x480[/quote][font size="3"]Apparently there is a variation in what comes out of the factory. You are better off with the main battery serving this purpose. It will stay charged from the converter and/or the TV. I will eventually connect mine that way too. I don't know why LL adds the small battery unless it's from their heritage of small bike haulers. [/font]
Sounds like it, Charlie. I like it this way but understand how the small battery version can be good too. One less thing to think about.
I received the Tekonsha Breakaway Battery Charger unit I had ordered to replace my factory supplied non-charging system that has a bad battery. Next task will be figuring out how to install it. The instructions assume you didn't already have a system. Likewise the video tutorial at eTrailer.com doesn't apply directly to my situation. I want to reuse the existing wiring if possible.
One noteworthy thing I see in the Tekonsha instructions is the recommendation that breakaway switches be replaced every three to five years. The switch Tekonsha provided is identical to the one already on the trailer -- so if you trust their advice you'll replace your switch every 3-5 years even if you don't upgrade your system. The Tekonsha unit also uses the same battery type as the non-charging unit installed by Livinlite. Regarding the battery they note it under normal conditions it has a service life of 4 to 5 years and that service life is considerably reduced if the battery is exposed to temperatures above 86-degrees F. They also note any charging should be limited to 1.2amps. Of course all this information is stuff that Livinlite should have provided. None of it is in my user manual or in the equipment product manuals they provided me when I purchased.
I finally decided to look into the break away battery on my trailer. I bought the unit in early March last year and it may have been on the dealer's lot for several months before that, and who knows how long the battery sat in LL's stock before they built the unit. So I am figuring it was about 18-24 months old.
The battery was dead and read 9 volts. But when I pulled the break away switch and put the brake load on, it dropped to zero, as you would expect with a dead battery. I hooked it up to a 1 amp trickle charger and it jumped to 13.3 v but took almost no current. After an hour I disconnected the charger and the voltage immediately dropped to 11.7V. So it is toast.
I decided to buy a new one- $14 with free shipping on Amazon. I will try to take care of it better this time. I am not going to jumper it to the main battery as Charlie and I suggested. But I will hook it up to the converter to recharge once or twice each year. If it won't stay charged that way, then I will forget it and jumper the break away switch to the main DC buss in the junction box as Charlie suggested.
I will report at the end of the season how this worked out.
David
My Camplite didn't come with a breakaway battery (though it has holes where it should have been). I suspect that the dealer took off for me and that's alright with me because I'd rather maintain and charge a single battery. But... my landscape trailer came with a nifty little unit that seems better than the stock LL backup battery:[a href="http://postimg.org/image/q9q5fxq6p/"]
(http://s16.postimg.org/q9q5fxq6p/IMG_20150523_174814808.jpg)
Looks like there are several types of replacements out there for around $40 with led indicators and charging systems built in. Etrailers and Amazon both have the Hopkins 20119 and installation seems simple enough. Tekomsha makes one too. They are made for RVs and work on single and duel axle trailers.
[quote timestamp="1432667579" author="@david" source="/post/11442/thread"]
The battery was dead and read 9 volts. But when I pulled the break away switch and put the brake load on, it dropped to zero, as you would expect with a dead battery. I hooked it up to a 1 amp trickle charger and it jumped to 13.3 v but took almost no current. After an hour I disconnected the charger and the voltage immediately dropped to 11.7V. So it is toast.
David[/quote][font size="3"]Sir,
I respectfully ask what do you have against toast? I, and many others, consider toast a part of our daily lives, especially when covered with butter, Garlic and Basil. I suggest that in the future you refer to such failures as having "gone South".
Yours truly from the Toast Appreciation Gestapo (HOA).
[/font]
[quote source="/post/11461/thread" timestamp="1432675074" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/11442/thread" timestamp="1432667579" author="@david"]The battery was dead and read 9 volts. But when I pulled the break away switch and put the brake load on, it dropped to zero, as you would expect with a dead battery. I hooked it up to a 1 amp trickle charger and it jumped to 13.3 v but took almost no current. After an hour I disconnected the charger and the voltage immediately dropped to 11.7V. So it is toast.
David[/quote][font size="3"]Sir,
I respectfully ask what do you have against toast? I, and many others, consider toast a part of our daily lives, especially when covered with butter, Garlic and Basil. I suggest that in the future you refer to such failures as having "gone South".
Yours truly from the Toast Appreciation Gestapo (HOA).
[/font][/quote]Hey wait just a minute...I moved south to Texas as soon as could! Nothing wrong with the "South" ...perhaps use "gone bad"?
Yours truly from the paranoid traveller, who just escaped the flooding in the San Antonio KOA on Saturday!
[quote source="/post/11464/thread" timestamp="1432681557" author="@nd1979"]Hey wait just a minute...I moved south to Texas as soon as could! Nothing wrong with the "South" ...perhaps use "gone bad"?
Yours truly from the paranoid traveller, who just escaped the flooding in the San Antonio KOA on Saturday![/quote]Perhaps, "on the Fritz?" whoever he was. All kidding aside I'm glad you escaped and are safe. I had a similar experience in Denver 2 years ago. No fun at all.
[quote source="/post/11461/thread" timestamp="1432675074" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/11442/thread" timestamp="1432667579" author="@david"]The battery was dead and read 9 volts. But when I pulled the break away switch and put the brake load on, it dropped to zero, as you would expect with a dead battery. I hooked it up to a 1 amp trickle charger and it jumped to 13.3 v but took almost no current. After an hour I disconnected the charger and the voltage immediately dropped to 11.7V. So it is toast.
David[/quote][font size="3"]Sir,
I respectfully ask what do you have against toast? I, and many others, consider toast a part of our daily lives, especially when covered with butter, Garlic and Basil. I suggest that in the future you refer to such failures as having "gone South".
Yours truly from the Toast Appreciation Gestapo (HOA).
[/font][/quote]Sir,
I respectfully ask what do you have against the South? I, and many others, consider the South a wonderful place to be, especially with all of its Southern Belles, mint juleps, and fine upstanding gentlemen. I suggest that in the future you refer to such failures as "kicked the bucket"
Yours truly from the Organization for Southern Hospitality Image Testimonial Enforcement
Thanks Charlie....we escaped just in time only to be pummeled at our home in the Houston area... 10 inches overnight! Time to build the ark!
I checked my battery and it was only 9 volts and dead. I decided to buy a Hopkins battery and box set up that had the stutus led's and charger ( that I am not using). I bought a cheap solar charge regulator from Harbor Freight that fits right in the breakaway battery box so it is protected from the elements.
This way, if the battery needs charging, I can just hook it up to the 10 watt solar panel on my house battery box. The house box has two 6v golf cart batteries in it. I just need to tuck the wires away in one of those black protective sleeves and I will be good to go.
[a href="http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/nd1979jk/media/image_2.jpeg.html"]
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc381/nd1979jk/image_2.jpeg"][/a]
[a href="http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/nd1979jk/media/image_1.jpeg.html"]
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc381/nd1979jk/image_1.jpeg"][/a]
Nice set-up. Mod coming up for me!
Thanks Merlin.....I am just about finished with my list of mods that I need/want to do.
Regarding Charlies earlier comments about the dead breakaway brake battery, I was checking to see if I had the same system on my 2015 21BHS. It turns out my trailer does not have the small separate battery but is wired like the picture Charlie attached, so my breakaway brake system is charged/powered by the primary trailer batteries. I guess LL followed Charlies lead!
[font size="3"]Amazing!. I suspect the real motivation was $$$, but this is a change that needed to be made. Bean counters +1, customers +2.
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[font size="3"]Merlin,
In daylight I find: The second black wire from the switch is connected to the far right hand post along with the two blue wires. If you look very closely at the picture you'll see the black wire enter the box and immediately bend to the top crimp lug, the one with the split yellow covering. It is crimped in with the top blue wire. So the right hand post becomes the physical junction for the brakes, the TV brake controller, and the breakaway switch. That post should light up with 12V when you pull the breakaway switch.
EDIT: You were posting as I was looking and writing. Glad you got it worked out. Aren't dealers wonderful? [attachment id="1336" thumbnail="1"]
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