Hi Everyone,
My husband and I are working on possibly getting one of the shiny new Ignite Toy Haulers. We have a local dealer right around the corner from us that stocks the 5th Wheels and QuickSilvers. The plan is to order through them as the next closet dealer is more than an hour away.
Has anyone ordered sight-unseen, especially with such a new model? We have been talking to LL directly and the wait time is around 12 weeks.
Very unsure on what options to get as some don't even come with a microwave. Hoping for the patio rails and second AC as this will be used for dogs in the toy hauler section along with factory gen-prep. For some reason hubby wants the oven combo, as if we would be cooking in it in July, but it seems to be cheaper than the convection/microwave combo.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We are not new to campers/trailers in general we have had a another brand for some time, but have never towed.
Thanks to the members who posted the pictures from the Tampa show of the Ignite. We had pretty much already settled on a LL and this one has stole our hearts.
Trish
Trish:
Make sure that you have a big enough tow vehicle. I couldn't find the Ignite model on the LL website. But some toy haulers are heavy, even in aluminum.
David
Thanks, I drive a Tacoma crew cab 4x4 and hubby has an Expedition, so my vehicle is the questionable one. Not even sure I am going to try it with mine as it is older, a 2009.
The Ignite is in the new brochure under the Polaris floor Plans.
Welcome & please let us know what you buy!
My husband and I ordered a custom Camplite 21-BHS, and we had some items on our list that weren't even offered by Livin Lite at that time. The factory said they could do everything we wanted, and we paid a premium to get exactly what we wanted.
12 weeks seems to be the wait time on orders. We are very happy with our camper. We knew how we wanted to use it, and it is good to work with a company who will customize.
Someone else on this board wanted a sauna, washer and dryer, and all-electric heat. Livin Lite did it for them, and none of this is on Livin Lite's list of options, but the factory did it. If you decide to order the Ignite with options, I think that the factory will work with you to get you what you want.
Enjoy the process, and keep us informed!
We ordered our Camplite trailer without ever seeing any Livinlite product in person. I understand that most people would never do that. What made us different? The first thing is we have no dealers within a reasonable distance. The second is we found confidence in reading online practically everything ever written about Livinlite products. Heck, I even read [span style="font-size:13.3333330154419px;"]the then [/span]Livinlite owner's wife's personal blog and it helped me better appreciate the man and his values. The hours of research helped me understand both the strengths and weaknesses, and eventually I satisfied myself that it wasn't a big risk to order our first trailer from Livinlite. The info you can find in this forum along with various reviews found online can certainly provide a more detailed understanding of what the product is (good and bad) than a simple walkthrough at a dealer ever could. I relayed what I had learned, & my conclusions, to my wife and she too found that the Camplite was the right choice for us. Together we decided to proceed and get one.
Like Leslie we had some ideas for a 'custom' unit and worked through them with Scott Tuttle & his team. In our case that took some back & forth with email correspondence - over several weeks. Like Leslie, we were willing to pay for the work it took them to implement our customizations - nothing is for free. I must say I found Livinlite good to work with and I appreciated the effort they gave. We've been very happy with our trailer -- it was what we expected.
Don't hesitate to ask specific questions here. I assume you've found the mods threads; there's lots of good ideas on there for things you may want to consider both before and after purchase. My wife and I took many trips to dealers and RV shows before we made up our minds on which CL to get. After just one RV show, however, it was obvious we were going to get a LL product. If I had to do it over, I would work directly with LL to get just what we wanted. I'm spending a lot of time on mods this spring that could have been done at the factory if we had known how flexible LL is on construction. And our dealer was ignorant and no help at all. Sounds like your dogs will have it made in the shade with their own A/C :)
Welcome. I am like many and no dealer close. I am driving 7.5 hours to pick ours up tomorrow. I have seen one, but not the one I am buying. I would in fact order one sight unseen. I like them that much.
Thanks everyone for the encouragement. We talked to the local dealer last night who had of course never even heard of the Ignite. He is going to make some calls for us and see what they can do.
Since we have a trade, we are pretty much forced to work with a dealer, don't think we can get as much if we sell it ourselves. In addition to it taking more time with an already long wait for delivery.
We looked around on the lot for sometime and nothing compares. We found 1 other and it was used one that we even remotely liked. We did get to look at 2 of the Camp Lites and while very nice just not big enough to fit 4 dogs and crates.
Tincan,
Which options did you decide to go with? There seems to be many and it's hard to choose from.
[quote timestamp="1430441225" source="/post/10184/thread" author="@sandroad"]Don't hesitate to ask specific questions here. I assume you've found the mods threads; there's lots of good ideas on there for things you may want to consider both before and after purchase. My wife and I took many trips to dealers and RV shows before we made up our minds on which CL to get. After just one RV show, however, it was obvious we were going to get a LL product. If I had to do it over, I would work directly with LL to get just what we wanted. I'm spending a lot of time on mods this spring that could have been done at the factory if we had known how flexible LL is on construction. And our dealer was ignorant and no help at all. Sounds like your dogs will have it made in the shade with their own A/C :)[/quote]The dealer was no help at all because they have a strong incentive to make you give up and take something off their lot.
Normally true, but in our case we special ordered through the dealer (they didn't even have a CL on the lot). They were still no help and not interested in helping. Just handed us the standard list of available options and said what do you want. We had no idea LL would do custom work like a double rear bumper, etc. Lesson learned for me is to find a good dealer through reviews/ratings first, then work on purchase with them and LL for factory mods.
I think you are more than safe ordering a LL trailer sight unseen. No LL dealers in Nevada so not like we had a choice. We purchased a 2013 16DBS in September 2013 through HW Motorhomes and drove 2000 miles to pick it up. We had it customized and enjoyed it for 2 years. No issues with the entire process including LL making the changes we wanted. Sold it for what we bought it for in March and ordered a custom 21BHS through SIRV. Will be picking up that camper in June ( it's done so our choice to delay the pick-up as we will be camping in Yellowstone on our way back from dealer). Both purchases were done sight unseen with the first successful and full expectations of the 2nd being the same. With all the issue identified on this forum we know what we will inspect at the dealer and make sure it is right before we take off.
[quote source="/post/10239/thread" timestamp="1430533426" author="@sandroad"]Normally true, but in our case we special ordered through the dealer (they didn't even have a CL on the lot). They were still no help and not interested in helping. Just handed us the standard list of available options and said what do you want. We had no idea LL would do custom work like a double rear bumper, etc. Lesson learned for me is to find a good dealer through reviews/ratings first, then work on purchase with them and LL for factory mods. [/quote][p]The point isn't whether they had any other CL's to show you. Their only interest is in moving what's on the lot. A less expensive unit from another manufacturer that is already on their lot is better FOR THEM to move, than helping with your special order. The less they help, the more trouble you have, the more frustrated you might get with the whole special order or insistence on a brand they don't have in stock and hey, let me show you this really nice rig that would meet all your needs, and it's right over there, no waiting or uncertainty. This is the way it always goes with these special orders, you know ? Let's go take a look. We can make you a great deal on this one, too.[/p][p]
[/p]
I agree with what pinstriper has written although I think he meant to say "the more they help" and not less. They are in sales -- they want to move their inventory with the least amount of work possible. Understandably, rv salespeople don't want a customer to leave without signing a purchase contract. Career salespeople will size the potential purchaser very quickly -- determining how much potential for a sale there is and deciding how much effort they should put into trying to make the sale. If you go in talking "custom" they know a purchase agreement isn't likely to be signed today. As pinstriper noted, there is the real possibility that during the process of coordinating a custom order the buyer will waste the salesperson's time and not proceed to a purchase. While they waste time with that customer the commission-driven salesperson misses the opportunity to sell to others who actually brought their checkbook.
My theory is that the majority of RV sales are a kind of impulse purchase. Potential buyers get the idea in their head that they want an rv. They may have an idea about the size or general type that might suit them. In my theory they do little research beyond that. They head over to the local rv sales centre and tell the salesperson "I'm just looking". The salesperson digs to size them up and in that process learns they are interested in, say, a trailer about 21-feet long. They are shown units about that size and bigger. Impulse takes over and it is for practical purposes a done deal. The conversation goes like this:
Pumpkin:[span] [/span][span] [/span]"Look Honey, this one has a exterior pull-out tv and a exterior fridge for our BudLites!"
Honeybunch:[span] [/span]"But Pumpkin, this one has the same plus a big interior tv that lift up out of a counter at the flick of a switch and solid surface countertops!"
Salesperson:[span] [/span]"With our financing you really can afford all these great features - the monthly cost difference of this luxury unit relative to a basic no-frills unit will be negligible".
Pumpkin: [span] [/span][span] [/span]"Sweetheart, you'll be Queen in this 27-foot palace-on-wheels and I'll be King. Let's do it!"[span] [/span][span] [/span]
RV manufacturers & the rv dealers know 'luxury' features result in quick efficient impulse purchases. The industry has become focused on that kind of market.
When LivinLite started they saw an opportunity of stepping out from that trend. They felt there was a market for smaller, lighter, more functional rv designs that could be what they called "multi-generational". Designs that would not fall apart or decay and that could eventually be passed onto your kids to enjoy with the grandkids. LivinLite was correct - there is a niche market for their kind of RV designs. To sell them properly took dealers who understand & appreciate what LivinLite products offer the consumer. Unfortunately there are some dealers who just don't get it. They might have some inventory but they really don't seem to know how to sell it. On the other hand there are LivinLite dealers that really do get it. The dealer who participates in these forums comes to mind. It is clear they really love the product & understand the kinds of customers who they appeal to. If I were interested in buying another Camplite I'd seek out one of those dealers even if they were far away. I'd call them up and discuss my goals -- discuss custom features and options. I'd order through them (sight unseen) and then either pick up my new unit at the factory, have it shipped to me, or pick it up at the dealer and make a cool adventure of the road trip home. When my son & I picked up our Camplite at the factory it was 2384 kilometers ( 1,481 miles) trip to get it back home. That was really fun & I'd happily do it again if I bought another trailer -- but I won't need to because the one I have will last more than my lifetime. :)
No, I really meant what I said. It was a sequence. Lt me be pedantic for a moment.
The less they help, the more trouble you are likely to have with your special order. The more trouble you have, the more frustrated you get with the special order. They capitalize on that trouble, plus work on your FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about a large purchase and in particular about not being able to see it first. A special order does take a leap of faith.
And the last thing they want is for your special order to show up, right or wrong, and have you want to back out of the deal. Now, instead of moving current inventory and reclaiming their working capital, they've added to it. They don't have any money tied up in the special order, but they still have to move the unit. Even a consignment is a drag on them cycling through their inventory.
So when you are getting frustrated they swoop in playing the hero and bring you back to what they already have on hand, make you a "special deal".
And let's face it. You can buy 2 to 2.5 conventional trailers for the cost of these. It won't last several decades, but it's a valid choice to spend $10k on a new trailer every 10 years than plunk down $25k and hope it lasts for 30. And more people can come up with 10 grand, particularly for their first RV.
But we're happy with the choice, and frequently remind ourselves that we spent a lot less than on an Airstream !
Pinstriper said: "The less they help, the more trouble you are likely to have with your special order"
Okay I can see your point. I think we are essentially saying similar things. I wasn't trying to imply they would help. The salesperson likely wants to discourage custom orders anyway they can. It is not in their interest to facilitate a custom order because the more they help, the more they have to to lose. They'd generally far prefer to just steer you to inventory - take it or leave it - and the same easy relationship they have with most of their customers. From their perspective, the risks in the custom order just isn't worth the time. They also must suffer frustration when the picky buyer wanting custom features isn't willing to follow through.
Yes, we agree on the message, just not the phrasing. I was clarifying for...eh....posterity. Not because I'm...never mind.
Totally agree with you on the impulse buy. It happened to us on our second purchase and we are really trying to avoid it this time around.
We are looking for something that is going to hold up to the wear and tear from the dogs. Not that they do anything on purpose they are just big and sometimes knock stuff over or jump on it. One of the main reasons we started looking at LL last year is because we knew it had to hold up over time.
We have had quite a few issues with our current one, built cheaply comes it mind was and it was far from it in the price category.
Ordering something from the factory is brand new to us. We not sure what we really need vs. something that is just nice to have.
The dealer we are working with so far seems to be pretty helpful. They actually called us back and gave us an update. There just doesn't seem to be any info on the Ignite on the LL website. There is one PDF that mentions it but you have to dig to find it.
Well let me describe our experience with buying a LL last year through D&H RV who BTW is excellent.
I first focused on a 21RBS. It had a walk around queen bed and we could get it with a sofa rather than a dinette (did I say I hate dinettes). But the dealer didn't have one on the lot so we started specing out a factory order. Dave at LL was quite accommodating and even told us not to order the spray insulation (does anyone like this stuff?).
So we got a quote from Dave and it all looked good so we scheduled a visit- we are 200 miles away. When we got there we looked at a similar 21 but without the sofa. But Dave suggested we look at a 16TBS as we had had a lot of conversation about our TV being marginal. He had one but at that time LL only offered it with a dinette. But Dave said no problem, he could swap the sofa for a dinette from another trailer and we would have what we wanted.
We liked the 16TBS with a dealer swapped sofa (the factory is now offering them I think) so we bought it. It has worked out fine for us.
The point is that we and the dealer were going down a path of factory order, we saw another trailer that served our needs better (lighter) and the dealer worked to give us what we wanted.
Now D&H RV sells a lot of LLs. Their inventory doesn't stick around long. So as far as I could see it didn't matter to them whether it was a factory order or off of their lot. They were going to sell the one in inventory soon anyway.
So although I suspect that some dealers particularly those without much inventory who don't sell a lot of LLs may act as discussed above. If you can find exactly what you want at one of those dealers then ok, you may end up getting a bargain because they want to move it.
But the moral of this long story is try find a dealer that sells a lot of LLs. You will probably be happier.
David
Quote from: @david" timestamp="1430689831" source="/post/10309/threadDave at LL was quite accommodating and even told us not to order the spray insulation (does anyone like this stuff?).
[font size="3"]TinkeringTechie and I are the only ones I know of that ordered the spray. Both are disappointed. I didn't expect significant insulation, but I was hoping for air seal. Didn't happen. Interesting that LL now recommends against it, though they still list it as optional. Now, if I had my Chevy 427 mounted between the axles it might help, but............[/font]
[p]Some of the dealers I've heard described in this thread should be avoided at all costs. I will not give one nickel to those that approach me or mine in that fashion. You need to put them in their place from the get-go or run fast and far from them.
I usually start out by speaking of an imaginary dealer that tried to pull some crap Kung-Fu on us.[/p][p]
[/p][p]With regard to Camp Lite pricing I've been told by a tamed dealer that they, Livin Lite, expects the dealers to work at a slimmer margin than other brands. This stuck with me but I do not have the credentials with Livin Lite to verify this. For this reason alone the dealer sold me the last Livin Lite product they will ever sell as they will no longer carry the brand and favor Jayco now because of it.[/p]
I came across this pricing issue with a closer Livin Lite Dealer but still 400 miles away. His prices were way higher than what I ended up paying but I had to drive 1450 miles 1-way for that way lower price.
The closer Dealer said he could order the BC I wanted, I priced it out with the dealer but his price I felt was way over inflated. I told him I could get the exact 2015 BC at a different out-of-state Dealer at a way lower price than this ordered unit, his response was " Then buy it from them " - so I did.
The dealer we are working with, does sell LL just not the Toy Haulers. They had 3 CL's on the lot and a bunch of the pop ups, but neither are going to work for us.
So they already have contacts with LL and know the general product.
It would be worth it to me to hire a towing company if I couldn't make the trip to the distant dealer myself. This just to be sure I got what I want from who deserved the business. Doesn't sound like these two dealers are deserve your business to begin with. Buying local isn't all it's cracked-up to be sometimes.
It's far too long between the times where I get to be the customer to be subjected to this stuff. There are no active LL dealers left in New England anymore though there are some listed on the LL site. Only one guy in NH that will order them after a hefty deposit is made on a one by one basis.
I think you will be satisfied with the LL product unseen if you can stomach the logistics in your area. We bought ours after never having laid eyes on anything LL. Only $1k to hold it for a day till we could make the 300mi journey to view it. That would have been non-refundable. The smart dealer would do the same. 50% down cash that you would lose if you backed out or something.
[quote source="/post/10171/thread" timestamp="1430416706" author="@tag9147"]Hi Everyone,
My husband and I are working on possibly getting one of the shiny new Ignite Toy Haulers. We have a local dealer right around the corner from us that stocks the 5th Wheels and QuickSilvers. The plan is to order through them as the next closet dealer is more than an hour away.
Has anyone ordered sight-unseen, especially with such a new model? We have been talking to LL directly and the wait time is around 12 weeks.
Very unsure on what options to get as some don't even come with a microwave. Hoping for the patio rails and second AC as this will be used for dogs in the toy hauler section along with factory gen-prep. For some reason hubby wants the oven combo, as if we would be cooking in it in July, but it seems to be cheaper than the convection/microwave combo.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We are not new to campers/trailers in general we have had a another brand for some time, but have never towed.
Thanks to the members who posted the pictures from the Tampa show of the Ignite. We had pretty much already settled on a LL and this one has stole our hearts.
Trish[/quote]Hi, Trish. You have good taste! We were impressed with the 'Ignite' and did check it out pretty well when at the Tampa RV Show this past Spring '15. We were told by on-site LL Rep that the Ignite is an Axxess with wood. (Is that a groan, I hear?) The Rep explained that folks were asking for a 'warmer' feel than aluminum provides, and so the Ignite was born. Truth is, with very minor changes, LL did succeed in warming up the interior substantially. But it's really just a facade that a handy DIY type could do and save big bucks. Major interior difference between the Axxess and the Ignite are the cabinets which remain aluminum, but with wood cabinetry overlay; a DIY project if it's that important. The floor is the same aluminum but with an area rug at the back end where the dogs would go. The same 'wood-look' roll-out flooring that many Camplite's have standard was found in the Ignite's living/kitchen/bathroom areas. Some on this forum have expressed that they would actually prefer the aluminum with throw rugs for ease of cleaning, especially for those who deal with dog dirt/dander. The Ignite had very impressive, eye-catching undercounter lighting in the kitchen. Wow, nice touch! Upon further investigation, this upgrade amounted to maybe a $50 roll of LED lights. Again, an easy DIY!
The exterior seems to be where the biggest differences lie. You mention 'shiny' which is puzzling, because while the Ignite was colorful and 'flashy', I would not consider what we saw to be 'shiny', per se. 'Shiny' or a polished mirror finish is what Axxess and Polaris toy haulers can come in (and also what we have).
http://www.livinlite.com/axxess8_5x26-overview.php[br]
We have asked and still go without an answer as to what the exterior was on this particular Ignite at the Tampa RV Show. The side walls were one-piece like the side walls found on most RVs today....fiberglass or some such composite or laminate? There were no 'panels', or seams, as with all LLs we've ever seen, whether camper or hauler. Also, the Ignite's dark windows were not set 'in' like ours, but rather, set 'on' the side wall which seems to be a treatment common in newer RVs today. The Ignite's side wall decor was white background with a lime-green, checkered-flag fade motif for motor sports enthusiasts. Since we haul dogs/crates too, we don't have a particular affinity to the checkered-flag look that dominates the east-central Florida region. One modification that the Ignite did have allowed the cargo door conversion to a patio deck. You will want to make sure to have this included. BTW, LL told us it would cost 'thousands' to retro-fit our Axx for patio deck use. In the end, we accomplished it for under $100.
We can't speak to an interior wall, other than we would never break up the spacious feel with a room divider. We have seen many serious 'haulers' who have done this to keep the fumes and odors associated with 'toys' away from the living area. That is understandable. We enjoy the space that can be used in different ways, the least of which is getting our dogs the heck out of our way and into their crates so we can enjoy the beds or furniture without them! Sometimes, I declare ....I'm gonna get rid of 'em! But then....
Would you do us a favor? If you ever learn what the Ignite's exterior is, would you share it with us? Don't know where you are, and while you may have to drive a ways, you could probably snag a '15 Axxess/Polaris/VRV for a pretty good price right now and then 'bling' it up yourself even better than the Ignite and for a whole lot less $$ and dealer/factory hassle. Hope this helps and that you enjoy the journey to finding the best RV for you...and your hairy guys. :P
also remember that after a unit sits on a lot for a little while, the dealer has to start making interest payments on it (they usually purchase under a floor plan in which the inventory is financed, very few pay wholesale to the manufacturer even if they get a wholesale price for doing so)...so they are losing money. even though they make a profit on ordering the custom unit for you, they can avoid lost money in interest payments and make a profit if they can sell you something off the lot, so it is win/win for them
this is one reason the start offering such good deals when they have had a unit on the lot for a year.
[quote timestamp="1430883221" source="/post/10401/thread" author="@thudd3r"]also remember that after a unit sits on a lot for a little while, the dealer has to start making interest payments on it (they usually purchase under a floor plan in which the inventory is financed, very few pay wholesale to the manufacturer even if they get a wholesale price for doing so)...so they are losing money. even though they make a profit on ordering the custom unit for you, they can avoid lost money in interest payments and make a profit if they can sell you something off the lot, so it is win/win for them
this is one reason the start offering such good deals when they have had a unit on the lot for a year.[/quote][p]Borrowed money always has a cost, even on the first day. That cost might be the lost opportunity of what else you could have done with it.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, some localities have an "inventory tax" where the business pays based on the value of their inventory at the end of a month/quarter/year. So anything that puts more inventory on their lot for more days would be costing them real dollars.[/p][p]
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Thanks so much for the nice post GW. We have had a really busy week and dealer hasn't gotten back to us but no time to push for any updates either. Will be in a holding pattern until next week. The thought about getting a LL off a lot has crossed our minds just not sure yet.
We are stuck using a dealer because we have to do a trade in.
We are located outside of Buffalo, New York for those who are wondering.
Sorry forgot to add, used the term shiny just to relate to brand new out of the factory type of term.
Not that the unit was actually shiny.
*UPDATE*
Haven't been around much but happy to finally have an update. We purchased an Ignite Toy hauler last week.
If anyone went to the Louisville show, and saw the Ignite that is the one we bought. It has more options and is bigger than we wanted but the price was perfect. Hoping to get a delivery date soon. The holiday shutdown has delayed it a bit.
Will update again once we get it, hoping around 2 weeks.