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Help! First time TT buyer, considering Camplite 21BHS

Started by tbrady, December 04, 2016, 02:08:11 PM

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buffresmgnt

We have a 100 watt Renogy portable suitcase system which cost considerably less than the Zamp portable system which makes a jump from 80 watts to 120 watts.  The Renogy does everything that the Zamp does at a lower cost.   

hogtyd

Quote from: @easwen" source="/post/26264/thread" timestamp="1480981340Picture of the roof of my 2016 16 BHB.  This is what the factory install of the roof looks like.

Need I say more about the quality?



The aluminum roof seam where it meets the upper front edge on my 2012 looks similar...I have to admit it caught me off guard the first time I climbed up to put the winter cover on, but it has never leaked and still looks the same after 5 years.

Graham

charliem

Quote from: @dana" source="/post/26266/thread" timestamp="1480983302David, DJ -

Be very careful on the Zamp solar ports if you are using anything other than a Zamp solar panel system.  If you are using any other brand of solar panel than Zamp, the positive / negative wires will need to be reversed, i.e. The black negative wire will need to be connected to the positive pole of the battery and the red "hot" wire will need to be connected to the negative terminal on the battery, or you will need to purchase a connector that reverses polarity in the cabling.
That is the main reason that the Zamp sticker is applied to the trailer or battery box - if you try to hook up any other brand of solar system to the port you will smoke the plug and maybe damage the controller.

Steve
[font size="3"]First question: What advantage does Zamp gain by using a reversed polarity configuration of a standard connector?

Second question: Why do otherwise respectable RV manufacturers supply a non standard connector? 

Makes no sense to me.
[/font]
Any 20 minute job can be stretched
to a week with proper planning

Charlie
NW Florida

charliem

Quote from: @graham" source="/post/26268/thread" timestamp="1480983836[quote timestamp="1480981340" source="/post/26264/thread" author="@easwen"]Picture of the roof of my 2016 16 BHB.  This is what the factory install of the roof looks like.

Need I say more about the quality?

The aluminum roof seam where it meets the upper front edge on my 2012 looks similar...I have to admit it caught me off guard the first time I climbed up to put the winter cover on, but it has never leaked and still looks the same after 5 years.

Graham[/quote][font size="3"]That is supposedly one reason Thor went to a TPO roof. I'll ask @david to discourse on the difficulty of putting compound bends in flat aluminum sheets. [/font]
Any 20 minute job can be stretched
to a week with proper planning

Charlie
NW Florida

buffresmgnt

Charliem

Those are good questions that will need to be directed to Zamp.  

IMO the only reason that I can think of is that this is their way of boosting sales of their systems, and 

I Have to believe that Zamp went out and captured that particular segment of the portable solar panel / RV market before other panel manufacturers even thought about it.

Makes no sense to me either. 

david

[quote timestamp="1480983302" author="@dana" source="/post/26266/thread"]David, DJ -

Be very careful on the Zamp solar ports if you are using anything other than a Zamp solar panel system.  If you are using any other brand of solar panel than Zamp, the positive / negative wires will need to be reversed, i.e. The black negative wire will need to be connected to the positive pole of the battery and the red "hot" wire will need to be connected to the negative terminal on the battery, or you will need to purchase a connector that reverses polarity in the cabling.
That is the main reason that the Zamp sticker is applied to the trailer or battery box - if you try to hook up any other brand of solar system to the port you will smoke the plug and maybe damage the controller.

Steve[/quote]Well, those two pole connectors do not have any specific polarity marked on them. So there is no standard positive or negative terminal. The convention that Battery Tender uses is that the battery charger output positive is on the female socket looking at the charger, which makes sense to protect that terminal until you think about it and see that the battery side has much greater consequences in a fault and it is male.

But that is just Battery tender's convention, and maybe Zamp's is different. There is no right or wrong since the connector is not polarized plus or minus.

If I wanted to change Zamp's convention, then all I would have to do is to wire the red lead from the connector to negative and their black to positive inside the trailer if I used their outside wall connector. No biggie, and I sure wouldn't make a Yutube video about it. And any electrician (even an amateur like me) would check the polarity before he hooked up anything to it.

In fact if I were using the Zamp wall connector I would wire the positive to the female terminal looking at the connector from outside. That way the battery's output would be protected against a fault to ground. That is probably why Zamp's convention is different from Battery Tender's.

I admit that the lack of polarity confused me at first when I wired up my battery tender. You just have to check it with a meter to keep it straight.

David








David M

16TBS towed with a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder


tbrady

So, as I have read through a lot more postings regarding the CampLites my overall impression is going down.  Granted when compared to other RVs on the market the lack of wood is a huge plus obviously but it basically ends there.   These trailers seem to be built just as poorly built as all the others just from the number of posts showing shoddy workmanship on the frame etc.  If the core of this trailer is not very well built (which is its biggest selling point to me) then what exactly am I buying?

Here's how the conversation is going with my wife, granted we have only owned a pop-up before and sold it because it was quickly falling apart.

"So hon, every trailer on the market is built like crap, even the Airstreams.  It's so bad a lot of people think the entire RV industry needs to be brought in for a congressional hearing on it.  Livin Lite at least mitigates some of this by using aluminum for everything so it can't rot.  Well, I think it does, some people have found a lot of steel in their roof using magnets but I haven't figured that one out yet.  So... if we want a camper for a our family that has any chance of lasting over 10 years it's probably a Livin Lite one.  However, we're gonna have to spend around 30k and need to expect to have a lot of trouble with it initially.  Don't be surprised if it has to stay at the dealer for some amount of time to work out all the bugs.  Oh, some of the owners have had frame issues too with the welds so we need to check that also."

Does anyone know if there are any other all aluminium trailers on the market?  I haven't found any others like Livin Lite.


I'm curious, are Class A motorhomes built any better?

And again, thanks for all the information.  This is extremely helpful.

hogtyd

[quote timestamp="1481042087" author="@tbrady" source="/post/26286/thread"]
I'm curious, are Class A motorhomes built any better?

And again, thanks for all the information.  This is extremely helpful.[/quote]
Generally, no, a Class A is going to be no better then other RVs in terms of build quality...unless you step up to the $250k++ threshold and go with one of the premium brands. Even then, under the shiny veneer, most of those will resemble a hastily constructed wood-framed trailer on wheels. A Class B RV based on the new Ford Transit or the MB Sprinter is probably one of the better options in terms of quality, since it's all the RV components are built around of a relatively high quality mass-produced steel van body, but they're about $100k and offer about the same amount of living space (or maybe less) then a Camplite 11FK provides. 

So I think it helps to put some of the issues regarding Livin Lite that you noted into the proper context...the frame weld issues appears to be relatively isolated incident, including input from the LL factory on one of those threads that provides some more insight. The new TPO roof and wood-faced cabinets have their pro's and con's, but in my opinion it doesn't significantly change the projected longevity of the trailer. There's no fiberglass to delaminate or bubble, no wood floor or walls to get soft, buckle or grow mold, etc. Compared to the other brands, I think it's still the best choice for something that has a good chance of lasting more then a few years before needing major repairs or being tossed in the trash. My early 2012 13QBB is 5 years old and aside from a scratch or two that I can take credit for, it looks and functions as if it was still new...

Graham

charliem

[quote timestamp="1481042087" source="/post/26286/thread" author="@tbrady"]So, as I have read through a lot more postings regarding the CampLites my overall impression is going down.  Granted when compared to other RVs on the market the lack of wood is a huge plus obviously but it basically ends there.   These trailers seem to be built just as poorly built as all the others just from the number of posts showing shoddy workmanship on the frame etc.  If the core of this trailer is not very well built (which is its biggest selling point to me) then what exactly am I buying?

Does anyone know if there are any other all aluminium trailers on the market?  I haven't found any others like Livin Lite.
[/quote][font size="3"]If you're disappointed with LL quality compared to other RVs your conclusion is premature. CLs are built as well or better than most other mid market units, including Airstream. The only other camper I would consider is a Lance and it is heavier and even more expensive. If you're disappointed with the quality of RVs in general you are perfectly justified in your view. The entire RV industry suffers from an assembly quality problem. Most are located in the Elkhart Indiana area and pull from the same labor pool and suppliers and they sell to the same group of customers. For the extra cost of LL you are getting design, longevity and transparency. What I mean by transparency is there is very little you cannot easily see. No wires or pipes forever encased in walls or floor. The ceiling necessarily has a few wires but the rest are easily inspectable, modifiable  and repairable. That said you may not want these things. If you only plan to keep a trailer for a few years and move on or move up you may not value longevity. If you want fancy cabinets and everything concealed you may want something else. However, most of us really appreciate the LL products and would definitely buy again. Keep in mind the this forum has only 1300+ members. Other products with forums find they attract only about 10% of their owners. You will naturally hear about problems to a higher degree than complete satisfaction. The old squeaky wheel, vocal minority syndrome. If you dig through other brand's forums you will find the same horror stories and the same questions about quality. It's the nature of the beast.

As for other aluminum trailer manufacturers I know only one, Aluminum Trailer Company (ATC), but they do not make camping trailers.
[/font]
Any 20 minute job can be stretched
to a week with proper planning

Charlie
NW Florida

kycamper

You tell 'em, charliem. If you don't discuss problems on these forums, how are they going to be solved. I had a few issues when I bought mine, but between the factory, my dealer AND THIS FORUM, I was able to remedy all of my issues and learn a great deal from you and our other members. I value this forum. It is one of the best I have participated in, and I have been in or am in at least five !! These are wonderful trailers. I have been in mine, with my wife, everyday since Oct 3rd, and I enjoy it every day!!  I hope however buys this trailer joins this forum. It is invaluable.!! I check it a few times everyday.

tbrady


Well... after all the hemming and hawing I've decided the 21BHS is the best option for us.  The input from you guys has been tremendously helpful.  I have a couple of other questions that I didn't see answered anywhere else.

1. gas line for stove?  I didn't see one, has anyone added one to theirs?  This was extremely convenient in our last camper.
2. External shower?  I'm pretty sure they have one but wanted to confirm.
3. beefed up bumper for carrying a bike rack - it looks like a lot of people got an addition 2x4 added to the inside of the rear bumper by the factory.  But it looks like this is no longer an option.  Fortunately one of my best friends is an experienced welder (builds aluminum boats) so is it as simple as just welding on a 2x4 tube on the inside of the existing bumper?  Is that strong enough to carry 150lbs of bikes?


Used camplites seem to be hard to come by (at least this time of year).  I have only found a couple of 21BHS that are used and for sale.  Would you guys anticipate seeing a lot more on the market by spring?

thanks again
tim

charliem

[quote source="/post/26294/thread" author="@tbrady" timestamp="1481072848"]
Well... after all the hemming and hawing I've decided the 21BHS is the best option for us.  The input from you guys has been tremendously helpful.  I have a couple of other questions that I didn't see answered anywhere else.

1. gas line for stove?  I didn't see one, has anyone added one to theirs?  This was extremely convenient in our last camper.
2. External shower?  I'm pretty sure they have one but wanted to confirm.
3. beefed up bumper for carrying a bike rack - it looks like a lot of people got an addition 2x4 added to the inside of the rear bumper by the factory.  But it looks like this is no longer an option.  Fortunately one of my best friends is an experienced welder (builds aluminum boats) so is it as simple as just welding on a 2x4 tube on the inside of the existing bumper?  Is that strong enough to carry 150lbs of bikes?


Used camplites seem to be hard to come by (at least this time of year).  I have only found a couple of 21BHS that are used and for sale.  Would you guys anticipate seeing a lot more on the market by spring?

thanks again
tim[/quote][font size="3"]Tim,

Glad you're coming around to our way of thinking  ;)   .

[ol type="decimal"][li]Gas lines for external grills were not originally offered but they're easily added. A lot of folks use Tees off the main propane bottles with a hose. Permanent hookups can be added, either high or low pressure depending on your grill.[/li][li]The 21s have an external shower.[/li][li]The beefed up bumper was never a factory option, but after I had mine done by them to my drawings others began requesting it. Your friend, if he is good at welding aluminum, can easily do it. It's just the addition of a length of 2x4 AL tubing properly welded. Search this forum for my mods and you'll find a drawing and pictures showing how. I carry 2 bikes on mine and they don't move (as seen in my rear looking camera). I can stand and jump on the bumper with no problem.[/li][/ol][p]
[/p][p]I don't know about the market. [strike]Above[/strike] below my pay grade  8-)   .
[/p]

[/font]
Any 20 minute job can be stretched
to a week with proper planning

Charlie
NW Florida

pinstriper

This is like watching a one man tennis match. Which, come to think of it, I think Bugs Bunny actually did. Or maybe that was baseball with him pitching to himself catching. Anyway, we'll see where we are tomorrow morning.

If you're down to things like propane lines for a grill or outside showers, you've already made the purchase decision.

Pay very close attention to Charlie's drawings on the bumper. It isn't "just a 2x4", it's how and where it attaches to the frame. Don't Bubba the thing up. That said, 150# of bikes is a lot of bikes, and you're now starting to talk about something that will affect tongue weight. You might consider a hitch on the front of your TV and put (some of) the bikes there.

Camplites were never widely distributed - they are more of a boutique/niche product. So there's a smaller population of used trailers to start with. Then, they don't require replacement/upgrade as often as other products, so people aren't getting out at 3 years before the thing starts falling apart. Finally, it's not that old of a product for a lot of owner turnover to happen. We have seen a few upgrade to a larger CL or a larger other RV, but again it's a pretty small sample size.
Let's eat, Grandma !
Let's eat Grandma !
Punctuation. It saves lives.

2014 14DBS
2013 4Runner | 2006 F-150 5.4 V8 (ruh ruh ruh)
2015 Hobie Outback

charliem

Quote from: @pinstriper" source="/post/26296/thread" timestamp="1481081097This is like watching a one man tennis match.........

Pay very close attention to Charlie's drawings on the bumper. It isn't "just a 2x4", it's how and where it attaches to the frame....
[font size="3"]I'll third that. The added 2x4 must be forward of the existing bumper, between the two frame members, and welded to the bumper and both frame members. You're trying to take the load off the original bumper-to frame welds.

Now, back to the Bugs Bunny Wimbledon.
[/font]
Any 20 minute job can be stretched
to a week with proper planning

Charlie
NW Florida