Is the 28 BHS for me?

[funpilot]

Will be travelling mostly flat to hilly.  GVWR is 6800.  Empty weight is about 5500 + 400 for people and dog + 695 tongue weight (275 dry hitch + 140 for batteries + 80 for propane +100 for options + 100 misc) = 6595.  That is probably too close ? 

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/1487/thread" timestamp="1402573236" author="@funpilot"]



Will be travelling mostly flat to hilly. GVWR is 6800. Empty weight is about 5500 + 400 for people and dog + 695 tongue weight (275 dry hitch + 140 for batteries + 80 for propane +100 for options + 100 misc) = 6595.  That is probably too close ? 

[/quote]
While that is getting close, you are still within your limits and I'm sure there is some safety factor in there as well.  However, you would just need to be prepared for some acceleration issues, etc.  I tow my 21BHS with a Ram 1500 with the 4.7L V8, and 3.92 rear.  While there is certainly an impact on acceleration and gas mileage, it is certainly doable and handles the hills well.  No matter how close you are to your limits, you just need to keep your limitations in mind so you don't find yourself in a situation where you require performance you don't have available.  Plus, I don't know what year your Avalanche is, but eventually you'll be replacing your tow vehicle, and could opt for a Silverado, Ram or F150.  So if you can keep your limits in mind, and feel you can live with them, your situation can always change.  You could always possibly arrrange for a test tow of at least a 21BHS and see how your Avalanche handles that.  If it handles it easily, you'll have more confidence.  If it has problems, you'll know the 28BHS will make it worse.

As far as the length of the camper goes, there are a few things.  I find the 21BHS the perfect size for me.  One of the biggest things I like is the fact that the camper is 7' wide, so it is not much wider than my truck.  The 28BHS is also 7' wide.  That really makes it easy.  The 28BHS is 5' 4" longer, so while that may make it a bit more difficult to maneuver, it is still well within the limits of many travel trailers.  As was stated previously, your mileage will be more affected by wind drag, which will be about the same for any of the camplites.

Hope this helps.

Doug

[funpilot]

I am going to call LL and ask if the bunks can be removed and if the awning can just be left in the trailer and not installed.  That might remove about 200 pounds.  Not sure where the batteries go but have been presuming up front on the hitch.  Also, was told that the standard package has changed and the weights on the website have not been updated.   Will call them in an hour or so when they wake up.

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]It's all one gigantic compromise. All ratings have to be met. GVWR, GAWR, Payload, GCWR, tongue weight, tow rating, acceleration, braking, wife requirements, dog requirements, bank requirements, etc. One giant equation with 10**14 variables. All that said I do like the way Funpilot is going through the process. He may not ever find the solution, but he will know why. Better than the average bear.

Djsamuels summed it up best " there is a point where your tow vehicle and a camper large enough to meet your needs become mutually exclusive..." Add to that the wife requirements plus dog and bank and you have the unsolvable. [/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]So so true. [/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]Thanks Doug.
[/font][/font]

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/1489/thread" timestamp="1402578882" author="@funpilot"]I am going to call LL and ask if the bunks can be removed and if the awning can just be left in the trailer and not installed.[/quote]What would you put in place of the bunks? They're behind the axles, so they will actually reduce your tongue weight. The awning spans almost the entire length, so it shouldn't affect tongue weight either way.

[pinstriper]

And if 200# is the make or break, you are too close to limits.

I know this feels like we're giving you a root canal, but we're trying to be helpful.

[djsamuel]

I really think a different tow vehicle should be considered if possible. If the size of the camper is really important, perhaps the best thing to do is change the tow vehicle. With the 28BHS, you certainly don't need something huge, just something a bit stronger than an Avalanche.

Up to this point, you've only been looking at varying one side of the equation, the camper side.  Try considering the tow vehicle side by looking at what's available in the used truck department and comparing to what you can get for your Avalanche.  Certainly up to you, but just trying to give a different perspective.

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/1484/thread" timestamp="1402565651" author="@funpilot"][quote source="/post/1482/thread" timestamp="1402543804" author="@pinstriper"]What's in the truck goes against payload and GCWR, not tow rating.
[/quote][p]That is what I always thought as well until I came across the calculator that shows otherwise.  Seems for every pound you add to the truck, it takes  6 pounds off what the trailer can weigh.    Go play with this and tell me what you see.  [a href="http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml"]http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml[/a][/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][p]GCWR = GVWR of the tow vehicle + GVWR of the trailer.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Tow rating is a different calculation, and has to do with frame strength, TV axle strength, braking ability, wheelbase, powertrain (engine + tranny), cooling ability for the engine and tranny (and brakes). Tow rating IS related to the above in that the GVW of the trailer has to be under the tow rating, and payload in the truck does eat into what you have left for towing ability. And yes, you can tow more than you can haul. I'll take a peek at the calculater later (hey, poetry!) but I was talking about a different set of limits/considerations. You have to watch it from both angles, yes.[/p][p]
[/p]

[funpilot]

I do not have the funds to do both a new camper and a new TV.  I am doing this so carefully because if I settle, I will not use the trailer like I want to.  So, if it is not to be, so be it.  I was fine until we added the dog...

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/1497/thread" timestamp="1402584366" author="@funpilot"]I was fine until we added the dog...[/quote]I've got it: sell the dog to pay for the bigger tow vehicle... wait then you won't need the bigger tow vehicle  ;-| hmmm... put dog to work to pay for new tow vehicle, it's their fault anyways  

Seriously though, we were in the same situation a year ago: outgrew our trailer and the old tow vehicle couldn't tow anything bigger. Ended up having to upgrade both.

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/1497/thread" timestamp="1402584366" author="@funpilot"]

I do not have the funds to do both a new camper and a new TV. I am doing this so carefully because if I settle, I will not use the trailer like I want to. So, if it is not to be, so be it. I was fine until we added the dog...
[/quote]
Don't know how much you'd have to settle as long as you are knowledgeable of the tradeoffs.  I did a bit of searching, and found a post from someone with a 29' Keystone TT.  They have a 2004 Avalanche, 5.3L V-8 but with the 3.73 rear.  They said they've towed 5000 miles, and the only time they wished they had more truck was when they went out to the Rocky Mountains and hit some steep grades around Yellowstone and Salt Lake City.  They were able to get through that in 2nd gear.  Your biggest issue is the rear end ratio.  There are posts that mention the same issue with that ratio.  Someone asked about towing a 7000 pound trailer with a 2005 Avalanche with a 3.42 ratio.  Consensus is that if packing is done lightly, and the Rockies are avoided or routes planned carefully, it should work if you take it easy.  The other mandatory suggestion was to make sure there is a transmission cooler installed.

You can certainly tow it many places, but you would need to be careful what grades you drive and make sure you have the truck maintained.  Replacing the tow vehicle could take place at a later time, and in the mean time pick your camping destinations accordingly. 

Also, remember that the dry weight of the 28BHS is only 750 pounds higher than the 21BHS, but the higher GVWR for the camper is due to the much higher load capacity (2750 pounds vs 1500).  I can't imagine loading a trailer up with 2750 pounds of stuff, so that 7000 pound limit will probably never be reached.  With careful packing, you may find the weight can be kept at an acceptable level.

Not trying to talk you into something you are not comfortable with, but just trying to look at the issue in a different way.

Doug

[funpilot]

OK, just got back from the CAT scales after emptying all the junk and removing the spare tire.  By the way, I got almost 2 mpg better after removing that tire.  I presume that is because of it being under the truck and creating drag.   Now the interesting stuff.  I put in weight to exactly emulate my wife and dog in the vehicle and my TV weight dropped almost 300 pounds.  OMG, what a difference that made in the calculator I have been using.  Now it tells me I can tow:

7100 max tow weight with 6035 being within the safety zone
852 max tongue weight with 724 being within the safety zone
My front axle weighs 3120 (max 3400)
My rear axle weighs 2180 (max 4000)

That is with the safety margin set at 15% and tongue weight percentage over ride set at 12%

I put in the max weight as 5800 into the calculator for the 28BHS so that should more than cover real world loading if the dry weight is 4250.  Thoughts

[djsamuel]

I think 1550 pounds for options, gas, water and gear is reasonable.  That matches the total capacity of the 21BHS above the dry weight.

[funpilot]

Did you guys know that the 28BHS has a new option?  You can convert the bunk bed area to the pop-out tent like the toy haulers have and then you get a door on the back that lets you load bicycles into the space where the bunks used to be; or you can get fold up bunk beds and get the same door (maybe, as when I asked someone at LL about that he said he had never heard of that even though their price sheet shows it...)  Also, the XL Living package is now part of the standard build (mandatory).  I am curious about one thing though...they use the same 13.5 A/C for the much bigger trailer and the same 30 amp service.  That sound like under engineering to me.  Again, your thoughts?  (I just checked and they use the same a/c on their largest toy hauler...)

 

[funpilot]

 Now to finalize pricing.  Anyone want to bet that something comes up to stop me again???