Thinking ahead for our upgrade from QS to CL - opinions pls:

[elwood]

So we're making plans to move up to a hard sided CL from our lovely QS 8.0, in spite of the fact that the 8.0 gives us a bright, airy 16' experience.  It's an big leap to move up to a TT, having to figure out outdoor parking options, more system maintenance, and so on.  My largest reservations in general about TT are the dark, closed in feelings due to the window restrictions.  (By the way, one of the photos on the LL gallery shows a very large window at the dinette, but no models seem to ship with such a large window).  Also jumping to two axles means giving up my BAL leveler for leveling blocks, so I might prefer single axle simplicity.

We are considering all options from 13 to 16 feet, but prefer the queen beds over the front convertible queen dinette.  We also seem to prefer the two person dinette over the sofa.  With no children we are looking for utility without having to break down the tables into bunks every evening.

I have some nagging questions that I can seem to resolve via the LL web site:

1) are the 14DBS and 16DBS slides the same length, or can we get a four person dinette in the 16DBS slide on request?
2) Can an adult sleep on the two person dinette (13 and 14 ft) when converted to a bunk?
3) Anyone not get the slide and regret it?
4) How comfortable is the sofa over time?  Sitting at the dealer doesn't give me much interest.
5) Do the slides interfere with any flooring installed in the main walk area, such as carpets or foam tiles?
6) Am I the only one who prefers the natural aluminum trim to the black aluminum on the cabinets?
7) Here in phoenix area one of the dealer's CL models had de-laminating formica on all of the counters.  He said it was a known problem going back to a bad batch of glue, but it has me turned off on the counters altogether.  Anyone experiment with some thin solid surface options?
Windows - can we custom order larger windows?  A window in the bath over the head, for example?
9) How annoying is the awning post located over the bedroom window?  I imagine not always leaving the awning open on windy days, or am I over-thinking?

Not model specific but I would want to install a number of solar panels on the roof - not sure how LL roofs could secure the brackets and get the heavy gauge wires down to the batteries (under the bed, I suppose), and maintain weather proofing.  Thoughts?

Thanks
Brad

[mitch]

[quote source="/post/1049/thread" timestamp="1400437703" author="@elwood"]So we're making plans to move up to a hard sided CL from our lovely QS 8.0, in spite of the fact that the 8.0 gives us a bright, airy 16' experience.  It's an big leap to move up to a TT, having to figure out outdoor parking options, more system maintenance, and so on.  My largest reservations in general about TT are the dark, closed in feelings due to the window restrictions.  (By the way, one of the photos on the LL gallery shows a very large window at the dinette, but no models seem to ship with such a large window).  Also jumping to two axles means giving up my BAL leveler for leveling blocks, so I might prefer single axle simplicity.

We are considering all options from 13 to 16 feet, but prefer the queen beds over the front convertible queen dinette.  We also seem to prefer the two person dinette over the sofa.  With no children we are looking for utility without having to break down the tables into bunks every evening.

I have some nagging questions that I can seem to resolve via the LL web site:

1) are the 14DBS and 16DBS slides the same length, or can we get a four person dinette in the 16DBS slide on request?
2) Can an adult sleep on the two person dinette (13 and 14 ft) when converted to a bunk?
3) Anyone not get the slide and regret it?
4) How comfortable is the sofa over time?  Sitting at the dealer doesn't give me much interest.
5) Do the slides interfere with any flooring installed in the main walk area, such as carpets or foam tiles?
6) Am I the only one who prefers the natural aluminum trim to the black aluminum on the cabinets?
7) Here in phoenix area one of the dealer's CL models had de-laminating formica on all of the counters.  He said it was a known problem going back to a bad batch of glue, but it has me turned off on the counters altogether.  Anyone experiment with some thin solid surface options?
Windows - can we custom order larger windows?  A window in the bath over the head, for example?
9) How annoying is the awning post located over the bedroom window?  I imagine not always leaving the awning open on windy days, or am I over-thinking?

Not model specific but I would want to install a number of solar panels on the roof - not sure how LL roofs could secure the brackets and get the heavy gauge wires down to the batteries (under the bed, I suppose), and maintain weather proofing.  Thoughts?

Thanks
Brad



[/quote]I can give some thoughts on a few of these,
2)  Someone 5 1/2 feet could but it would be a bit narrow.
3)  We have a 13QBB no slide, came out before the slides did.  I've given it a fair amount of thought and I don't regret it.  When camping we just don't spend much time in the camper to begin with so while the extra room would be nice, the cost of it for the amount of use it would get just doesn't seem worth it.  That being said if I had a 21' camper I'd have to reconsider.
7) Have not had de-laminating issues at all.
9) We usually have the awning open and if it's windy enough to keep it closed then the other windows would provide enough ventilation I think.

Solar stuff,  You could probably mount panels on the roof cross members using Z brackets and Dicor though you may have to drill holes in the panel flanges since your bracket spacing will be based on the cross member.  Alternatively, and this is what I did, make a panel bracket that you can use on the ground and run wire direct to a box that contains a charge controller and from the box to the battery.  Lets you position the panel anywhere, my one 70W panel will easily keep my one battery charged.  

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/1049/thread" timestamp="1400437703" author="@elwood"]So we're making plans to move up to a hard sided CL from our lovely QS 8.0, in spite of the fact that the 8.0 gives us a bright, airy 16' experience.  It's an big leap to move up to a TT, having to figure out outdoor parking options, more system maintenance, and so on.  My largest reservations in general about TT are the dark, closed in feelings due to the window restrictions.  (By the way, one of the photos on the LL gallery shows a very large window at the dinette, but no models seem to ship with such a large window).  Also jumping to two axles means giving up my BAL leveler for leveling blocks, so I might prefer single axle simplicity.

We are considering all options from 13 to 16 feet, but prefer the queen beds over the front convertible queen dinette.  We also seem to prefer the two person dinette over the sofa.  With no children we are looking for utility without having to break down the tables into bunks every evening.

I have some nagging questions that I can seem to resolve via the LL web site:

1) are the 14DBS and 16DBS slides the same length, or can we get a four person dinette in the 16DBS slide on request?
2) Can an adult sleep on the two person dinette (13 and 14 ft) when converted to a bunk?
3) Anyone not get the slide and regret it?
4) How comfortable is the sofa over time?  Sitting at the dealer doesn't give me much interest.
5) Do the slides interfere with any flooring installed in the main walk area, such as carpets or foam tiles?
6) Am I the only one who prefers the natural aluminum trim to the black aluminum on the cabinets?
7) Here in phoenix area one of the dealer's CL models had de-laminating formica on all of the counters.  He said it was a known problem going back to a bad batch of glue, but it has me turned off on the counters altogether.  Anyone experiment with some thin solid surface options?
Windows - can we custom order larger windows?  A window in the bath over the head, for example?
9) How annoying is the awning post located over the bedroom window?  I imagine not always leaving the awning open on windy days, or am I over-thinking?

Not model specific but I would want to install a number of solar panels on the roof - not sure how LL roofs could secure the brackets and get the heavy gauge wires down to the batteries (under the bed, I suppose), and maintain weather proofing.  Thoughts?

Thanks
Brad



[/quote][p]Windows and light were very important to us, too.[/p][p]
[/p][p]We got the 14DBS. I might have preferred the 16DBS, now that they apparently have a larger dinette in the slideout (unconfirmed, or at least I haven't seen pictures on the LL website).[/p][p]
[/p][p]1) I think the 16DBS slide is larger, with an option for a bigger (but still small) dinette.[/p][p]2) No.[/p][p]3) n/a[/p][p]4) n/a we have the 2 person dinette. I would actually be comfortable to use if I didn't have a gut. Sitting in the dinette is like sitting in a 2-person at Taco Bell.[/p][p]5) Not at all. The whole works is about 6" off the deck (the wheel well extends through the floor, and the slide has to clear it)[/p][p]6) No, but it wan't an option in the units that came in, and it wasn't that big a deal to me.[/p][p]7) No issue so far, but only 60 days in. I imagine this is the kind of thing that would show up over a summer, particularly if parked in the AZ sun and overheating inside.[/p][p] Ours has an exhaust fan in the bathroom/shower. The cover is translucent, lets lots of light in. The window in our slide out is a huge picture window. All the 14DBS and 16DBS's I've seen have it, so not sure what you haven't been seeing. Large windows at either end of the bed, plus a small one over the sink. We're very happy with the windows and natural light.[/p][p]9) Not at all. If it was too windy for the awning, I'm not sure I'd be having lots of open windows and I wouldn't miss just the one. Honestly never noticed it until I was closing the awning on our second trip to come home.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Other comments:[/p][p]
[/p][p]Two axles is a major plus to me, rides much more smoothly. We primarily camp in state campgrounds, and the sites are all level and paved. I have so far only had to use the tongue jack to level, but I have plastic stacking jack/leveling pads just in case. [/p][p]
[/p][p]We have actually tried it out with the slide in, and it would be livable, but it is SOOOoooo nice to have the extra room when extended. Not at all closed in feeling.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Our dealer gave us a "free" solar system, 65w in a briefcase format, clip the cables to the battery. I say free because I know the cost was baked in somewhere. We haven't unpacked it, but would certainly bring it if we were ever going boondocking. I would also add a 2nd battery if I had such plans.[/p][p]
[/p]

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]Elwood,

Most of your questions have been addressed and I concur the the extent I can since I have a 21RBS. However, I'll comment on windows and axles.

I beleive the smaller CLs also have the fan/vent in the bathroom ceiling. You can also order an additional skylight in the shower that makes a huge difference.

The large dinette window comes on all 14-21 CLs. Plenty of light/air and really nice.

Don't be afraid of dual axles. The 13' CLs are about as heavy as you should go with a single axle. Singles are causing lots of tire problems on other manufacturers' heavier and longer trailers. You might get some convenience with a single, but you gain a ton in reliability, stability, and ease of tow with duals. Plastic or wood blocks under dual wheels are a bit harder, but no real problem. And, though I've never used one, I've never liked the Bal leveler concept. Some love them; some hate them.
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[nordkapp]

If you lie the airy feeling with your Quick Silver  and want a single axle trailer, you can get a 13BHB with a tip out queen sleeping mattress instead of bunks.  If we are staying in a parking lot on the road, we will sleep in the sofa/queen sleeper, but we use the tip out when in camp-it adds lots of room.  You do loose the bunk windows.

[elwood]

I appreciate the responses!  It feels like we can't go wrong - the three lengths in consideration all seem adequate, slide vs no-slide seems workable in both cases, and no major complaints about the interior light.  Scouring craigslist, I've started seeing larger windows at the dinette in later models, so perhaps I was being a little too concerned.  

Now just to consider storage options in AZ ...

Thanks...    

[elwood]

I happened across a photo of a 16DBS that has a carefully positioned awning that lets the window open.  This the first sighting I have seen, but the awning does appear a bit shorter.

In the another thread I posted a photo of the larger dinette, but I'm not too excited over it.  I'm leaning towards the slide with a two person dinette, but still have to consider the jackknife sleeper.

Given free reign, I would prefer the sunroof in the bathroom.  Have to see the new vinyl flooring before I decide on that.

We have the extended platform on our QS and use it haul our two bikes.  I'm considering the same for the DBS.

[farmboy]

I was able to sit on the couch in a 16DB and a 16DBS; the couch in the slide was deeper and I found it  to be far more comfortable.   Not sure if I would want to sit on either one  and use the provided table.  I was thinking that if we go with the 16DBS we might pack a couple of folding chairs to use at the table; might replace that table with a smaller, round one; I think that there would be room for it between the couch and counter when the slide was extended.  The online descriptions of the couches are different;  the 16DB is described as a jackknife sofa, the one in the slide, which is said to be two inches longer, is called a sofa/bed.  I did not think to open up either couch, and I don't think that they are  still at the local dealer.   I would like to sit on the 16TBS couch, but I would not want to use the provided trays that are built into the couch; just not interested in eating while sitting on a couch.  Regarding interior color, I am leaning toward the champagne  colored aluminum cabinetry skins; personal taste; I think that they brighten up the interior and have a clean look, and they come with mill finish trim.   However, I did see one of their toy haulers with the aluminum skins and there were dents in some of the doors, which is a concern.   The Camplite  2015 Sales Order form, provided with the printed literature sent out by Livin Lite, states that the Rear Deck is "NA 13QBB, 14DB, 14DBS"; I read  that to say you can't order them on those models, but I would certainly check with the factory or local dealer.  The order form also includes as options minor and major 'deviation from Std. engineering charge';  sounds like they will customize the units.   I see that a Tank Back Flush Kit is now available;  curious to hear what folks think of it .  

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/1620/thread" timestamp="1403354991" author="@farmboy"] I see that a Tank Back Flush Kit is now available;  curious to hear what folks think of it .  [/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]When I ordered my 2014 21RBS they did not offer the backflusher, but I requested they install one. They did a beautiful job, including the vacuum breaker, back flow preventer, and hose connection built into the side wall. If their optional design is similar [/font]it's an excellent choice.
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