Andersen WDH on a CL21BHS how to install

[cl21bhs]

The actual tongue weight of the 21 bhs with dual propane tanks, battery and a total camper weight (with gear and stuff) of 4,200 lbs is 575 lbs. This is based on my camper that I just had on the truck scale.

 I purchased and installed the Andersen wd hitch, it does not transfer enough weight ( I know you guys told me so) and I had sway in the TV that I did not have before using the Andersen wd hitch, really not sure what is happening. I am probably going to try another wd hitch.

[vrvinmo]

[quote source="/post/2517/thread" timestamp="1407899282" author="@cl21bhs"]The actual tongue weight of the 21 bhs with dual propane tanks, battery and a total camper weight (with gear and stuff) of 4,200 lbs is 575 lbs. This is based on my camper that I just had on the truck scale.

 I purchased and installed the Andersen wd hitch, it does not transfer enough weight ( I know you guys told me so) and I had sway in the TV that I did not have before using the Andersen wd hitch, really not sure what is happening. I am probably going to try another wd hitch.[/quote][p]That doesn't make sense to me.  Did you weigh before and after? What are the GAWF and GAWR before and after weight transfer?   [/p][p]
[/p][p]How many threads do you have showing after you tighten the nuts?  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Can you post some pics of the install?
[/p]

[djsamuel]

I'm wondering if, given the relatively small size of the tow vehicle, if the friction in the Andersen hitch meant to control sway, is actually causing the tail to wag the dog.  In other words, rather than dampening sway, the friction is causing the trailer's movement to greatly affect the tow vehicle.  This would be further increased due to the fact it is a front wheel drive vehicle and there may be a situation where the front drive and steering wheels are not getting enough weight.

I really like the Andersen, and would hope you could get this dialed in.  I noticed with mine, if I tighten too much, even with my Ram 1500, it tends to feel too stiff going over bumps.  Perhaps being too tight can also increase the tail wagging the dog.

[david]

[p]I researched WDHs when I thought I was going to buy a 21 but ended up with a 16 which doesn't need it. This is what Reese (Cequent Products) had to say:

Weight distribution systems are selected by trailer weight (actual gross weight and tongue weight).  If the trailer is rated for 5,000#, the frame should be able to handle a weight distribution system rated for that weight. 66558 appears to be the correct item.  It will work with 3" – 5" tall and up to 2" wide frames. Instructions attached.

Thank you for contacting the Technical Group.
Cequent Performance Products

It clamps on to the trailer frame and has some latitude as to how far back it attaches so as to miss LPG tanks. It has integral sway control with friction pads that act on the trunnion bars. Here is a link to etrailer's web site: https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Reese/RP66558.html

If you look at the Anderson hitch it is never going to provide much weight distribution. The lever arm acting on the TV is very short- the force would have to be huge to do much good.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The real test of a WDH (other than weighing the front and rear ends on a truck scale) is to measure how far the front and rear suspension compresses when the WDH's bars are levered into place. The two should compress approximately the same.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Here is a good article that describes how to adjust your WDH: [a href="http://www.diskdoctor.us/camper/uploaded/How%20to%20Adjust%20the%20Weight%20Distributing%20Hitch.pdf"]http://www.diskdoctor.us/camper/uploaded/How%20to%20Adjust%20the%20Weight%20Distributing%20Hitch.pdf[/a].[/p][p]
David
[/p]

[gerry]

very interesting discussion......I was thinking Andersen wd hitch....now I'm rethinking it.......considering the
Reese SC Weight Distribution System w Sway Control - Trunnion - 10,000 lbs GTW, 800 lbs TW
Reese Weight Distribution Code:   RP66153

[gerry]

I have been having the following conversation with Andersen.........

 On 2014-10-19 10:16, Jeff  wrote:
 Gentlemen, I just bought a new 8.5 x 22 Livin Lite Axxess toy hauler.
 My tow vehicle is a new Ram 1500 with a diesel engine and ai
 suspension. The tongue weight of the trailer is 650 lbs and it weighs
 4200 lbs, empty. I will be putting one or two motorcycles in it,
 weighing around 750 to 850 lbs, each.......along with the usual gear,
 probably another several hundred lbs! I am interested in your wd
 hitch. Is it the right one for my all aluminum trailer? If so, what,
 if any, deviation from your standard set up should I need?
 Thanks...


 Jeff,
 
 Thank you for contacting us in regards to our Weight Distribution
 Hitch and getting all of the information to me that you have.
 
 We have not had anyone report back to us with towing with the new 1/2
 ton diesel you have so I do not have hard data for you but we are
 familiar with many other 1/2 tons towing with our hitch.
 
 Our hitch will control the sway and bounce better than any other hitch
 on the market for you but to distribute all of the tongue weight does
 not happen when you the tongue weight goes over 700 pounds. We will
 transfer approx 50-60% of the tongue weight which will give you full
 control of the trailer and vehicle but will still have the rear end
 sagging similar to 300 pounds on the rear of the pickup.
 
 As far as installation our traditional install will work perfect for
 you and I am attaching a few guides which can assist you.
 
 If you decide to go with our hitch we would need to know which size
 drop you need, tow ball size needed and how tall the brackets need to
 be where they attach to the trailer frame.
 
 Keep me posted if I can assist.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dave.

 Dave,  thanks for getting back to me.  Frankly, your hitch appeals to
 me because of its simplicity!  With regards to the truck, it has
 factory air suspension which automatically adjusts to the payload.
When I brought the trailer home, I did not use a wd hitch and the
 truck-trailer rode very level!  I am, however, concerned about the
 function of the hitch.  It is my understanding that with loading the
 trailer, the tongue weight might actually go down!  I have read where
 some folks load up the grey and/or black water tanks to give it a more
 comfortable ride.  In one forum, one guy had a set up similar to mine
 and did not feel comfortable with your hitch.....so that is why I am
 questioning you........and also because the more I read, the more I am
getting confused!!  Thanks,  Jeff

Dave wrote.......
With the automatic leveling system on your suspension I do not see how our hitch wouldn't perform perfect for your situation. The person that did not feel comfortable with our hitch was it due to the trailer swaying or felt like the front of the tow vehicle has a light front end which can adversely affect braking and steering?

With the tension nuts against the red urethane springs each setup and changing tongue weights will have you loosen or tighten the tension nut for the best control of the vehicle. When tanks start filling with water depending where they are located on the trailer will depend if you need to loosen or tighten the tension nut more. If the tongue weight is increased the pressure against the red urethane spring needs to increase.

note:  of course, this is a salesman speaking, but don't you think he should tell me if the hitch is not appropriate for my set up?  as I look at threads, different hitches, read the instructions....I am getting more and more confused......honestly, I do like the Andersen hitch because of it's simplicity......sounds like DJSamuel has a set up like mine....similar vehicle, similar rig.......and enjoys his Andersen........I do believe having the air suspension will help the hitch to adjust better and the hitch will help the sir suspension to adjust less!  as I already stated, I drove without a wd hitch and did fine...felt more bounce than I would have liked, but at times felt none......so almost anything that stops that would make the ride much better!  
 

[djsamuel]

I really think you'd find the Andersen to be a great fit for you. I'm up to about 6000 miles towing with ours, in all kinds of terrain, grades, weather and high crosswinds. It withstood the very rough roads of Louisiana with no issues. It is easy to set up and once you get it dialed in and know how many turns to tighten the nuts, the hitch is very predictable and consistent.

[gerry]

DJ, you just read my mind....I was going to ask you how you really like your Andersen hitch!!!  like I said, I like the simplicity of it.....and frankly, the truck and trailer rode very well without it!  just too much bounce!!  and the trailer was empty....no water or bikes or other stuff......I am seriously considering it!!  thanks!!

[gerry]

I ordered the Andersen hitch today.......hopefully it will come in in a few days and I can put it on and go for a ride!!  

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/4377/thread" timestamp="1414024115" author="@epiphysis18"]I ordered the Andersen hitch today.......hopefully it will come in in a few days and I can put it on and go for a ride!!  [/quote]
I tighten the nuts on my Andersen Hitch three turns each side (after hand tightening them).  It may be a good starting point for you and then experiment from there.    

[vrvinmo]

[quote source="/post/4377/thread" timestamp="1414024115" author="@epiphysis18"]I ordered the Andersen hitch today.......hopefully it will come in in a few days and I can put it on and go for a ride!!  [/quote]Very interested to hear how you like the Andersen. Keep in mind that the 650# of TW for you trailer is prior to installing the  battery, propane, etc.  I bet if you weigh it, the TW is probably closer to 750# to 800#.  I hope the Andersen transfers enough weight for your needs.

[gerry]

[quote source="/post/4381/thread" timestamp="1414032174" author="@vrvinmo"][quote source="/post/4377/thread" timestamp="1414024115" author="@epiphysis18"]I ordered the Andersen hitch today.......hopefully it will come in in a few days and I can put it on and go for a ride!!  [/quote]Very interested to hear how you like the Andersen. Keep in mind that the 650# of TW for you trailer is prior to installing the  battery, propane, etc.  I bet if you weigh it, the TW is probably closer to 750# to 800#.  I hope the Andersen transfers enough weight for your needs.
[/quote]it's rated for 1400 lbs tongue weight.  and depending on where I put my bike, the tongue weight may vary also.........

[mjhall]

When I purchased our 21BHS our tow vehicle  a 2000 Ford Explorer Sport 4x4 the dealer recommended installing Road master active suspension system. I had already replaced the original leaf springs from a single leaf to a multiple spring pack. That alone helped with the rear sag in the SUV. The Roadmaster Active suspension took the S bend out of the leaf springs and raised the rear of the SUV a couple of inches (unloaded / no trailer hooked up). http://www.activesuspension.com/ Once the trailer was hooked up the overall stance of the truck and tailer was much better than with out the Roadmaster suspenaion. Granted with the short wheel base of the two door Explorer is not the ideal tow vehicle for 21ft as I could feel the trailer moving around when semi's passed. The roadmaster active suspension does work but it does stiffen up the rear suspension when your not towing a trailer.



Pete



 

[david]

[p]I am quite surprised that the Anderson WDH has become the go to hitch for members of this forum. I see  members with 500 to 700 lb tongue weight using the Andersen, assuming that it is transferring significant tongue weight forward.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I must admit that it looks clean and simple. And I do like its cone of friction material that probably handles sway control nicely. But as a WDH, no.

Just take a look at the photos of the hitch from the side. The attachment point of the two chains at the hitch is 4-6" below the ball pivot point. The force on those chains (adjusted by the big nut on the trailer frame bracket) is what generates some weight distribution. But a 6" lever arm just isn't going to transfer much force to the front wheels are 15 feet forward. It would take thousands, probably ten thousand pounds of force on that chain to transfer the 400 lbs of weight forward that the Andersen salesman said could be done (see Jeff's post above). The chain won't take that load and for sure the frame attachment point won't.

If you have a 600-700 lbs tongue weight, you need a trunion bar type WDH unless you are towing with a 3/4 ton pickup or better. If you put 600 lbs (what you will have left after the meager Andersen weight transfer) on the rear end of any 1/2 ton pickup or full size SUV, you will probably exceed its rear axle load limit. Also for driving stability and balance you need more of that hitch weight transferred forward. Otherwise the front end will be light and the TV could understeer right off of the road in a sharp turn.

A trunion bar type WDH has a much longer lever arm which operates on the hitch- usually 24-32" from the ball to the frame attachment point as opposed to the 4-6" of the Andersen below the ball pivot point. This lets the same force be transferred to the front end as the Andersen, but with less than 1/4 of the tension at the attachment point. And compare how the Andersen chains attach to the hitch assembly below the cone versus how the trunion bars attach. The trunion bars are much beefier to enable it to transfer more torque forward than the Andersen. It is simple physics.

So to prove or disprove my contention, could someone with an Andersen WDH and 500+ lbs or more of tongue weight, measure their front wheel fender height before, after hooking up the trailer and then after tightening the big nuts on the Andersen. I will bet that the front fender goes up almost inch after hooking up and won't go down significantly after tightening the big nuts.

David[/p]

[charliem]

[font size="3"]David,

I agree with your analysis of the Anderson. Doug Samuel (djsamuel) has long noted that the Anderson is good for sway, but not so good for WD. Sounds good from the marketing dept.; not so good in the engineering/physics dept. Another knock on the Anderson is that it puts extreme force on the coupler/ball interface in a manner for which it was not designed.  The chain force pulls the rear of the ball pocket against the rear side of the ball. Ideally the static load on the ball is vertical, not horizontal. While the spring bar WDH does increase the load on the ball and coupler, it is generally all vertical. No reports yet on the long term effects of this sideways loading on ball or ball locking mechanism wear.
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