floor plan for 4?

[16dbenny]

[quote source="/post/14573/thread" timestamp="1440529232" author="@pinstriper"]1. TANSTATMTV

2. Your kids will go through the progression of wanting to be inside with you, then outside in their own tent, then outside in their own tent with a tag along friend, then staying home for a beer blast while the parents are away. If you can get to Stage II it means you can get away with a smaller trailer.

3. The best floorplan I found is the RPOD 179, with honorable mentions to the 177 and 178. However....it's an RPOD. Wood/fiberglass/rubber etc. The cabinets are particle board, and it just won't last like a Camplite. They come with extra single-axel bouncy goodness, whereas your CL 14 and up are dual axels and tow much smoother.

4. Oh yeah. Dry bath. If you like crapping in an airliner, you'll love your RV's wetbath. Otherwise...not so much.

5. In summation, 21BHS if you can't ditch the kids, 16DBS if you can.

[/quote][ul type="disc"][li]I'll keep your TANSTATMTV advice in mind.  After all, I want camping to be an enjoyable, not stressful, experience.[/li][li]I'm definitely going to enjoy the dry bath.  I can't stand airplane lavatories.[/li][li]I checked out the RPOD 179.  Its layout does look pretty good.  For a time, I considered the Riverside RV Retro 181 trailer.  It has a bunkhouse layout in a retro aluminum frame trailer (see video below).[/li][li]I won't be able to ditch the kids for a while.  Oh well, I'll just have to get a 21BHS.[/li][/ul]

[video src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbuHuC_VM4k"][/video]

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/14587/thread" timestamp="1440565179" author="@16dbenny"]djsamuel, Ammobob, charliem, and Merlin,

We live near San Francisco, so steep hills are unavoidable.  I wonder how a Tacoma would fare pulling a loaded 21BHS into the high Sierra passes?  The Tundra and Sequoia certainly have the muscle (at least on paper), but they're not exactly inexpensive.  I have friends who love their Jeeps, but even they admit that reliability is an issue.



[/quote]Given the fact you will always encounter steep grades, I would stay with something like a Sequoia/Tundra (or Ram 1500 /F150/Silverado 1500 to give a plug ).  When we drove to Arizona and Utah we hit some fairly steep grades at times as well as high crosswinds and rain.  I was glad I wasn't towing with anything less than a Ram 1500.  It was a very easy drive but you don't want to get a tow vehicle that would be straining in some of the conditions around you.  

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Let me speak to the Tacoma. I tow a 21RBS with a 2013 Tacoma 4.0L V6. We drive the Colorado high passes (10,000+) each year so that's my test standard. Last year year we towed an RPOD (2500#) with a Honda Pilot (4500# rated) and it did fine. Some places in second gear, but it did fine. When we upgraded to the 21RBS (3500#) i wanted more TV, but not as big as a full sized pickup. My thinking was the Tacoma (6500# rated) would give me 1000# more margin than the Pilot. We haven't given it the Rocky Mountain test yet, but if you can wait a few weeks we can give you a full report. To hedge my bet, and because of the loss of engine performance expected at altitude, I opted to install the TRD supercharger on the Tacoma. That's the closest I could get to a small V8 in a smaller truck. So far this combination has performed perfectly through the Smokey Mountains, Georgia, the East coast, and Canada. I've never even taxed the engine or called on the supercharger, but the Rockies are the test so stay tuned.
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[djsamuel]

Charlie,

Forgot you had the supercharger on the Tacoma.  I am anxious to hear how you make out in the Rockies.  How has your mileage been? I'm curious how the supercharger may affect that under towing conditions.  I have a friend with an Ecoboost V-6 F-150 and that is a great engine, but he takes quite a hit when towing.  That's with a turbocharger so I am wondering if a supercharger is any different.   He generally gets around 8.5 - 9 towing a lighter trailer then my 21BHS, but he is young and who knows how fast he tries to accelerate .  My truck has a normally aspirated 4.7L V8. On the trip out to Utah and Arizona, I averaged about 11.5 with an average speed of about 60.

[redtop885]

We are a family of 4 and have a 13RDB and a Highlander. (And we often take 2 small dogs with us!)  Is it a little tight sometimes? Yes.  But, we love it.  We spend most of our time outdoors anyway.  I have foam toppers for both the dinette and tip-out and find that helps a lot with comfort.  Lots of people hate the wet-bath, but we don't mind it at all!  I think we are lucky to have the option in our little camper.  I'm sure we will outgrow it in time, but by that time, our kids will be older and so involved with school and sports that getting away for camping trips will be harder any way. As it is, we can only get away occasional weekends and over the summer.  I expect we will sell eventually and invest in a Livin' Lite again in retirement.  So, the 13RDB has been a great choice for our family - weight, wet-bath, tip-out and price tag were key factors for us.

[16dbenny]

[quote source="/post/14596/thread" timestamp="1440599073" author="@stonecampers"]We are a family of 4 and have a 13RDB and a Highlander. (And we often take 2 small dogs with us!)  Is it a little tight sometimes? Yes.  But, we love it.  We spend most of our time outdoors anyway.  I have foam toppers for both the dinette and tip-out and find that helps a lot with comfort.  Lots of people hate the wet-bath, but we don't mind it at all!  I think we are lucky to have the option in our little camper.  I'm sure we will outgrow it in time, but by that time, our kids will be older and so involved with school and sports that getting away for camping trips will be harder any way. As it is, we can only get away occasional weekends and over the summer.  I expect we will sell eventually and invest in a Livin' Lite again in retirement.  So, the 13RDB has been a great choice for our family - weight, wet-bath, tip-out and price tag were key factors for us.[/quote]Hello StoneCampers,

Way cool! And I was all set to buy an 81BHS (the 2-bedroom/2-dry bath model) with a V12 Sequoia.  I don't think my wife will agree to a 13, but she might be OK with a 16. It's great to hear that your family is enjoying the 13RDB and Highlander combo.  And with two dogs, no less!

Thank you,
Benny

[16dbenny]

[quote source="/post/14592/thread" timestamp="1440589709" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Let me speak to the Tacoma. I tow a 21RBS with a 2013 Tacoma 4.0L V6. We drive the Colorado high passes (10,000+) each year so that's my test standard. Last year year we towed an RPOD (2500#) with a Honda Pilot (4500# rated) and it did fine. Some places in second gear, but it did fine. When we upgraded to the 21RBS (3500#) i wanted more TV, but not as big as a full sized pickup. My thinking was the Tacoma (6500# rated) would give me 1000# more margin than the Pilot. We haven't given it the Rocky Mountain test yet, but if you can wait a few weeks we can give you a full report. To hedge my bet, and because of the loss of engine performance expected at altitude, I opted to install the TRD supercharger on the Tacoma. That's the closest I could get to a small V8 in a smaller truck. So far this combination has performed perfectly through the Smokey Mountains, Georgia, the East coast, and Canada. I've never even taxed the engine or called on the supercharger, but the Rockies are the test so stay tuned.
[/font][/quote]I didn't even know there was a supercharged Tacoma.  A Tacoma would certainly make for a more economical day-to-day vehicle.  It's quite a bit less expensive than a Sequoia.  I am eager to hear how things go in the Colorado Rockies.  That's going to be an awesome trip!

[ammobob]

Benny, I know there are not a lot of these models out West (if any) and pictures on line are great but if you are ever in the Reno, NV area you are more than welcome to swing by and check out our 21BHS. We will be camping in Graeagle, CA over the Labor Day weekend 4-7 September also. 

[mitch]

[quote source="/post/14592/thread" timestamp="1440589709" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Let me speak to the Tacoma. I tow a 21RBS with a 2013 Tacoma 4.0L V6. We drive the Colorado high passes (10,000+) each year so that's my test standard. Last year year we towed an RPOD (2500#) with a Honda Pilot (4500# rated) and it did fine. Some places in second gear, but it did fine. When we upgraded to the 21RBS (3500#) i wanted more TV, but not as big as a full sized pickup. My thinking was the Tacoma (6500# rated) would give me 1000# more margin than the Pilot. We haven't given it the Rocky Mountain test yet, but if you can wait a few weeks we can give you a full report. To hedge my bet, and because of the loss of engine performance expected at altitude, I opted to install the TRD supercharger on the Tacoma. That's the closest I could get to a small V8 in a smaller truck. So far this combination has performed perfectly through the Smokey Mountains, Georgia, the East coast, and Canada. I've never even taxed the engine or called on the supercharger, but the Rockies are the test so stay tuned.
[/font][/quote]Out of curiosity, what do you consider taxing the engine?  Transmission temps or gear switching or RPM's?  I ask because when I tow my 13QBB through parts of West VA with my Tacoma 4.0L V6 I definitely feel like I'm taxing the engine.  Maybe I'm just to sensitive though. 

[sandyu]

I tend to agree with Stonecampers. It sounds to me you are far from retirement and don't have a ton of time for camping. If you were retired or near retirement I  would do the 21 footer. Being a bit crowed camping is not such a bad thing just a couple times out of the year.

[geo92128]

If you are constantly in steep hills as described above, go with the larger vehicle, v8 minimum.  Pulling a 21 BHS with all your gear will be near 5000 lbs and a V6 in continuous hills or mountains will be marginal but not give you any service factor for heat, altitude etc. I am not sure about the 2016 Tacoma but again the Tacoma will be fine in normal conditions but a lot of hills all the time?? Go bigger engine.

[daplumbr]

Note that my comments on the Highlander were for the first gen hybrid model. The 2nd or 3rd gen regular V6 AWD versions should make a fine TV for the 13 LL and an overall great family vehicle. 

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/14606/thread" timestamp="1440608734" author="@mitch"]Out of curiosity, what do you consider taxing the engine?  Transmission temps or gear switching or RPM's?  I ask because when I tow my 13QBB through parts of West VA with my Tacoma 4.0L V6 I definitely feel like I'm taxing the engine.  Maybe I'm just to sensitive though. [/quote][font size="3"]I judge that by RPM and acceleration or lack thereof, and gear shifting. Normally when I tow at 60MPH in fourth gear I'm turning 2500 RPM. If I want to accelerate or climb a moderate hill the Taco downshifts one or maybe two gears so one indication is how long it stays in a lower gear. I consider it taxing if I see 4000 RPM, or real strain when trying to maintain highway speed. Mostly by feel. If it can maintain speed without going into scream mode it's not straining. Transmission temperature, of course, goes up, but that's not related to engine performance.  As I said the real test is coming in Colorado this fall. Gas mileage while towing runs 10-10.8 depending. This is as displayed on the SacnGauge. I have not actually done the manual calculation. The gas mileage is what it is. I have no real data on daily driving without towing since the Taco's only task other than towing is a trip to the hardware store every week or so to keep the oil moving. On the RPOD forum we found the towing MPG was largely constant from TV to TV and engine to engine. It's mainly a function of the trailer frontal area; only secondarily affected by trailer weight. Physics says it takes XX horsepower to pull the parachute at a given speed and gas flow is directly related to horsepower. I think MPG differences are more noticeable at light loads such as daily driving unloaded.

I'll add that a V8 would have been my first choice, but no one puts a V8 in a small truck any more. My wife didn't want to drive the full sized truck around after we decoupled the trailer and the newer trucks are very difficult to reach into the bed without a step stool. In that respect the older trucks were better. So, to mitigate the lack of a V8, I went with the supercharger. Time will tell.
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[mitch]

[quote source="/post/14614/thread" timestamp="1440636951" author="@charliem"][quote timestamp="1440608734" author="@mitch" source="/post/14606/thread"]Out of curiosity, what do you consider taxing the engine?  Transmission temps or gear switching or RPM's?  I ask because when I tow my 13QBB through parts of West VA with my Tacoma 4.0L V6 I definitely feel like I'm taxing the engine.  Maybe I'm just to sensitive though. [/quote][font size="3"]I judge that by RPM and acceleration or lack thereof, and gear shifting. Normally when I tow at 60MPH in fourth gear I'm turning 2500 RPM. If I want to accelerate or climb a moderate hill the Taco downshifts one or maybe two gears so one indication is how long it stays in a lower gear. I consider it taxing if I see 4000 RPM, or real strain when trying to maintain highway speed. Mostly by feel. If it can maintain speed without going into scream mode it's not straining. Transmission temperature, of course, goes up, but that's not related to engine performance.  As I said the real test is coming in Colorado this fall. Gas mileage while towing runs 10-10.8 depending. This is as displayed on the SacnGauge. I have not actually done the manual calculation. The gas mileage is what it is. I have no real data on daily driving without towing since the Taco's only task other than towing is a trip to the hardware store every week or so to keep the oil moving. On the RPOD forum we found the towing MPG was largely constant from TV to TV and engine to engine. It's mainly a function of the trailer frontal area; only secondarily affected by trailer weight. Physics says it takes XX horsepower to pull the parachute at a given speed and gas flow is directly related to horsepower. I think MPG differences are more noticeable at light loads such as daily driving unloaded.[/font]
[/quote]Makes sense, I also tow around 60 mph and my experience mirrors yours. I always feel like I'm pushing the vehicle hard when I drop that gear or two to climb a hill.  Maybe it's not as bad as I make it out to be.  I use Torque Pro on a Samsung Galaxy Tab to monitor my systems.  I think the highest my Trans temp has ever run up on those steep hills is 240 Fahrenheit. 

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/14616/thread" timestamp="1440637969" author="@mitch"]Makes sense, I also tow around 60 mph and my experience mirrors yours. I always feel like I'm pushing the vehicle hard when I drop that gear or two to climb a hill.  Maybe it's not as bad as I make it out to be.  I use Torque Pro on a Samsung Galaxy Tab to monitor my systems.  I think the highest my Trans temp has ever run up on those steep hills is 240 Fahrenheit. [/quote][font size="3"]I'll add that a V8 would have been my first choice, but no one puts a V8 in a small truck any more. My wife didn't want to drive the full sized truck around after we decoupled the trailer and the newer trucks are very difficult to reach into the bed without a step stool. In that respect the older trucks were better. So, to mitigate the lack of a V8, I went with the supercharger. Time will tell.

As you may know the Taco reports two transmission temperatures. One is apparently right after the torque converter and responds very quickly. The other is closer to the oil reservoir and responds slower. I monitor the first to see what's happening in semi-real time. The second is more representative of the real oil temperature, but I don't watch it. The ScanGauge can monitor both with the proper codes, 


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