7x20HJ vs 8.5x24FBA vs 1500 Ecodiesel

[pat74]

[p]I got a 2016 RAM Ecodiesel 1500.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Payload     : 1330lbs
Towing        : 7610
    GVWR: 6800
Front    GAWR: 3900
Rear    GAWR: 3900[/p][p]
[/p][p]I'm trying to choose between these two trailer:[/p][p]7x20HJ
Unloaded Vehicle Weight : 3,960lbs
Dry Hitch Weight: 514lbs

8.5x24FBA
Unloaded Vehicle Weight : 5,644lbs
Dry Hitch Weight: 735lbs[/p][p]
[/p][p]I will get the Andersen Weight Distribution regardless of the trailer I get.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The 24 is so much better and have so much more room but it is heavier on hitch weight.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The LL dealer is saying I will have no problem with the 24, but I'm not sure it is 100% accurate.[/p][p]
[/p][p]We are a family of 4, total weight is about 540 lbs to 575 lbs.[/p][p]
[/p][p]We will be travelling every weekend with 3 dirt bikes in the toy hauler, dirt bike fit both trailers (20 or 24 feet), every weekend we will do about 5 to 10 hours commuting to the camp spot. It a mix of Highway and back roads with sometimes lots of elevation.[/p][p]
[/p][p]There is no hookup were we go, we have to fill up the water and comeback with grey water.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The dealer is saying that the difference in weight of 1684lbs between the 2 trailers will make a very small difference and it will be barely noticeable. [/p][p]
[/p][p]During summer 2016 we did 20000 miles traveling every weekend to those spot and we just did primitive camping with tent. We will do the same in summer 2017. [/p][p]
[/p][p]We also might plan some trip to the south, this winter with the trailer.[/p][p]
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[/p][p]What do you think would be the best trailer for us?[/p][p]Do you think the EcoDiesel will be fine with any of those trailer?[/p][p]I'm pretty sure the best fuel economy will be with the 20 feet but will it be significantly lower?[/p][p]
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[/p][p]Thank you very much for your help.[/p][p]
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[david]

Check the GCWR of your tow vehicle. I will bet with passengers, fuel, gear, water, bikes, etc. you will be significantly over this limit for the 24 and maybe pushing it for the 20.

But I would be willing to push that limit for a diesel half ton but not go over it. Stick with the 20 would be my advice.

David

[pat74]

The RAM 2016 Ecodisel GCWR 13750lbs
Will go to a scale tonight to know the exact GVW of the vehicle with nothing in it, except me, and a full tank of gas.

Do you recommend that based on the 20 Dry Hitch Weight, or it's Unloaded Vehicle Weight, or both?

[david]

I think you will be fine towing the 20, mostly due to its lower empty weight. The empty weight of about 4,000 lbs will grow to at least 6,000 with bikes, gear and fluids and the hitch weight may or may not go up as the bikes are mostly aft of the axles. You will need at least 600 lbs of tongue weight to avoid sway with the 6,000 lb trailer weight.

You might not need a WDH with that rig. But let's check the rear axle loading. Your truck will weigh about 6,500 lbs with gas, gear and people (well maybe less, this is an aluminum F150), so figure 6,000 lbs. Before hooking up you probably will have 45% of the weight on the rear, so that is 2,700 and the tongue weight of 600 brings it to 3,300 which is well under your axle rating.

If you want a WDH, get one that clamps to the frame and has a built in sway bar like the Reese. I would look to transfer about 200+# of your tongue weight forward, so that the front and rear axles are loaded equally. The Anderson won't do this.

So I think you will be fine. As you can see from the above, safe towing means meeting ALL of the criteria, not just the tow limit. But if you do the math with the 24, you will probably bust one or more of the rating criteria.

David

[diversteve]

Check this link if you have not already.
There are several models and rear differential gear ratios for the Ram.
This guide also has good information that will help you decide.
Any dealer is going to say you will be fine.
Trust but verify.
Camp on.

http://webcontent.goodsam.com/trailerlife.com/digital_editions/TrailerLifeTowGuide2016.pdf

[swbc150]

[p]Go with the smaller trailer, if you go with the larger trailer you will be upgrading your TV real soon and being your 1500 Ram is a 16 you may take a big dollar loss on it. Don't expect great mpg while towing, weight, wind resistance and speed are the killers for mpg. Your Payload on the Ram 1500 is also a must for you to watch carefully, one of the reasons I upgraded to a HD Pickup to tow my Bearcat Toyhauler.
As you stated you will need a WDH, either trailer is over the max allowed for tongue weight for any 1/2 ton pickup, get a Equal-i-zer sway control hitch instead of the Anderson.
Your Dry weights on the Trailers are just that, No water, No Propane, No Battery installed, No Food in the Frig, No clothing/extra bedding, No options that are on the Trailer, like a awning, roof a/c and so on.
I've towed for many years with both 1/2 tons and HD Trucks but a HD truck will shine for towing needs. For one they are designed and built for work and towing, the HD trucks have beefier frames, larger brakes, High Payloads, Extra cooling capacity for the transmissions and engines, stronger transmissions and the better axle gearing.
A heavier HD truck handles the Trailer with ease but a 1/2 ton is lighter and some trailers can push a 1/2 ton around, it can be a un-nerving feeling. Stay out of the Mountain States and you will be fine for towing maybe with the two trailers you are looking at but tow where I tow (Mountains and the higher elevations) and you just may be upgrading your tow vehicle sooner than you were planning on.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Dry camping with four you will be needing extra large coolers/ice, gas cans and maybe a generator. The Generator and gas cans should ride in the pickup bed, this will add on to the payload.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Install the Roof vent covers on the trailer, this way you can tow with the vents fully opened, no rain can enter, no bugs can enter but air can get out, a must for when your gas toys that are in the trailer when towing.[/p][p]


Be sure to check your trailer tires before you leave on each trip, if they call for 65psi then be sure they are at 65psi, even if towing the trailer empty.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Tongue Weight is part of your Payload weight, be sure to add that in.[/p]

[brandonboss]

I agree on the 7 x 20. Stuff adds up in weight so fast its ridiculous. 2k pounds sounds like a lot until you start adding everything you need. It goes fast.

[diversteve]

With the 735 DRY hitch weight on the 24 and you and passengers 575 you have busted the 1300 pay load!
Remember you need to have at least 10% of your loaded trailer weight on the tongue.  
To be safe always use the GVWR of the trailer when considering the tow vehicle. 
You still have to add food ice water bikes etc. The only way to know is to load it for a trip and find a truck scale.
Please don't push the max load of your TV, there is no extra capacity built in, max is max and affects your ability to STOP!
The old adage "let the buyer beware" applies to RV purchases!
The dealer is always going to say "you will be fine, you won't even know it's back there". ( I know this from experience)
Good luck with your decision, you may need a new TV. 

[pat74]

[p]Thanks guys, this is much helpful.

I ask the dealer to weight the trailer the tongue weight of the Livinlite 8.5 x 24, the tongue weight came out at 500lbs, 235lbs less then the advertised 735 lbs.
https://www.livinlite.com/products/quicksilver-toy-haulers/specifications.html

I don't understand how it could be so much less then the advertised weight.

I also looked at an ATC unit which was 8.5 x 20, the ATC reported a tongue weight of 812lbs, this is very confusing a smaller trailer (4011lbs) was heavier on the tongue then a 8.25 x 24 which is 5600lbs trailer.

I believe the ATC 8.5 x 20 would be the best option, it's a light trailer 4000lbs, my TV can tow 7600lbs so I have plenty of room.

Now the problem is with the tongue weight on the ATC, it will blow my payload. But if I add Airbags and WDH it should work better right?[/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, something I notice is that with 1/2 ton truck, they have very little payload, A V8 Hemi, only  has 1500 lbs payload, so even if you can tow 10000lbs with it, the payload will never allow you that much towing. So it is obvious that lots of people are blowing up there payload.

Thanks



[/p]

[swbc150]

Sorry, but adding the air-bags and the WDH the payload stays the same. The air-bags and the WDH just help to level your TV, plus the WDH shifts the towing weight between both axles. With the WDH you can have a heavier tongue weight but it still is considered payload weight. A half-ton max tongue weight without a WDH is 500 lbs, the WDH allows the heavier tongue weight. Your TV hitch should have ratings stamped on it for your max tongue weights with a non-WDH and a WDH.

When you weighed the LL 8.5x24 was that with the fresh water tank full, both propane bottles full and the rv battery?

Mine came out as well being lower that what LL claimed for the BC16FK for the tongue weight, fully loaded and ready to tow I'm right at 600 lbs of Tongue weight.


My F150 had the same Payload limitations, it was at 1770 lbs, now my Super Duty F350 is at 3562 lbs.