Boondocking in a 21RBS

[jeeps]

[font size="3"](Disclaimer - I do not "talk the talk" of RVers very well (meaning all the technical stuff) and am afraid of sounding stupid!  Please be patient with me.  I am the classic "dummy" in all those how-to book titles.) 
 

In the few months we have owned our 21RBS, we have yet to boondock (go "off the grid") in it.... and I'm a little nervous.  

Question:  For those of you who have ...... how long were you able to do it before the B&G tanks filled up, the water tanks emptied, propane was used up, or batteries died?  IOW, how long can we expect to last out there before having to find a dump station, refill everything, etc.?  
 
We have not upgraded with additional batteries, solar panels, etc. 

There are two of us camping in it and from our backpacking experience, we know how to conserve.  

We are about to install our Seelevel monitor.  Yay!

 
Just trying to get an idea before we try it.

Thanks!!

Oh, and .... I looked for this topic but didn't see it in this forum.  If it's here somewhere, please direct me.  Thanks again. 


[/font]

[david]

Assuming that it is just the two of you and you know how to conserve (take quick showers for example) then this is our experience with our 16TBS.

Fresh water- This is the one we use the most of with daily showers, toilet flushing and kitchen clean up. We have never filled it more than about half full before stopping to camp and it lasts about 3 days. If you start with a full tank and with your 21 which has more capacity, you should be able to last a week.

Black water- This fills at a fraction of the rate that the fresh water tank depletes. You will probably have to fill your water tanks 2-3 times before you have to empty this tank.

Grey water- This fill rate equals fresh water useage less black water fill. Your grey water tank is a couple of gallons more than your fresh water capacity so should be able to go more than a week before dumping.

Batteries- Our single Group 27 battery lasts at least 3 days without charging. If you triple your battery capacity by upgrading to two golf cart batteries in series, you should easily last a week with no charging. If you need to go more days then read the threads on this subject. Solar, towing, and a Honda generator are several ways to recharge.

Propane- A full 20# propane tank lasts at least a month with moderate cooking on board (grilling outside about half the meals) and a bit of heat in the evenings before bed and in the morning on cold nights.

So in summary your single battery will drop to less than 50% (not recommended to discharge below that level) after 3 days and will be the limiting factor; everything else will last at least a week. Upgrade to two golf cart batteries and then everything is good for at least a week.

David

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Brenda,

Your question is asked by most new RVrs and the answer is: it depends. Not what you wanted to hear, I know, but maybe I can give you some starting points. First, don't get spooked by the  "tech stuff".  Like any other activity, hobby, or profession, a language with special terms builds up. Hang with us and you'll soon be talkin' the talk like an old timer. Second, there are no dumb questions. Just dumb answers and we try to keep those to a minimum. Every question you will ask has been asked a thousand times before by others starting out . Don't be embarrassed;. we've all been there.

You've correctly identified the 5 consumable systems, so I'll touch on each one. Requirements on each depends on how many campers, what season, your  personal  habits and desires, time you spend in the camper, and if you are really off the grid.

Fresh water: This is usually the first thing  to run low  if you're really off the grid. The size of the FW tank is approximately equal to each of the other tanks so if you do not carry extra water or fill up from other sources this will be the first limit. Fortunately the fix is easy. Carry extra water in 5 gallon jugs. Many non-hookup CGs have water available at a central location so you can refill the jugs and pour them into the FW tank. FW is used for dish and hand washing, toilet flushing  and showering so it goes pretty fast.

Gray water:   This is usually the second limit. If you've solved the FW supply all that water has to go somewhere. The biggest producer of gray water is the shower, followed by the kitchen sink. For every minute you run the shower you pump two gallons of FW into the gray tank. You'll learn all the tricks for "navy" showers and how frequently you need  to shower.  Dishwashing is the next big grey water producer, but this can be mitigated by capturing the dishwater in plastic tubs and emptying them into the toilet.  Some campers use disposable plates and silverware to minimize dishwashing.  There are large plastic totes available to extend the life of the gray tank.

Black water: Surprisingly the onboard back tank can last a couple of weeks with two people. Even with dumping dishwashing water into it, you will run out of other things before you fill the black tank. Unfortunately the black tank is the hardest to empty in the wild. You just have to find a dump station periodically.
 
Propane: Usage is entirely dependent on how you use the furnace. Propane usage by the fridge is almost insignificant and the stove is the only other user. Unless you plan to simmer a pot roast for hours, even the stove usage is small. Some people have reported a single 20# bottle lasting weeks. If you are camping in cold weather and like it toasty inside the furnace will eat your propane. The easiest solution for propane is to add a second 20# with an automatic switchover regulator.  

Battery: Here's where it gets trickier. I'll assume you have a recent 21RBS that came with all interior light LEDs. If not, start there. The second biggest battery hog is the blower in the furnace. That ties into the furnace usage: in cold weather the furnace will eat your battery. I once ran a calculation and determined the furnace by itself would exhaust a single 20# bottle and a single Gr 24 battery at about the same time. If you're really going to spend time off the grid you should immediately replace the OEM supplied singe 12 volt battery with two GC2 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series. I'd do this even if your present single battery is still new. The increased capacity is tremendous. The current drawn by the LED lights is really minimal, the pump usage is infrequent so really doesn't add much, radio and cell phone charging almost don't count, so that leaves only one thing: The Fridge! Dometic did a really dumb thing when they built the 7 cu ft fridge used in the 21RBS.  The fridge has a continuously powered frame heater to minimize external condensation around the door seals. This prevents water and ice  in high humidity locales.  Earlier models had a switch to turn this on or off, but they deleted it for this model. This is easily fixed, but takes some technical knowledge. Follow the early threads by Charliem and TinkeringTechie to get the drift. That heater is equivalent to running a 6 watt light bulb 24/7 (12 amp-hours per day) and adds very little. I have added an on/off switch to my 21RBS and turn it off whenever battery life is an issue.
When you're off the grid there are several ways to recharge the batteries. The easiest and cheapest is a good set of jumper cables to your tow vehicle. Running the TV an hour or so every few days takes care of it. Generators and solar are a whole other discussion. You can search this forum and many other small RV forums if you want to get into it.

An experiment: Having said all this the best way to get an idea of  your boon docking capabilities is to set up at a CG with all or some hookups, but don't hookup. Start with a full FW tank and the other two empty. Don't hook up the shore power cord. This lets you simulate off grid camping and get an idea of your usage, but you can easily and quickly refill, empty, replace or recharge any of the 5 systems when you see them expiring. If you want the A/C or micro during this test run you can use them, but you have to set the water heater and fridge to gas and turn off the circuit breaker feeding the onboard converter. You're miles ahead with the SeeLevel gauge, but it should be "calibrated". By this I mean making a table or curve of the observed SeeLevel readouts as you dump 1 or 5 gallon containers of water into the waste tanks. Due to the way the SeeLevel sensors must be placed on the tank walls the readings will not be accurate near full or empty. We have discussed this in several threads on the forum.

Whew! Are you still with me? I hope so. This is what you get when I'm chained to my recliner recovering from a knee replacement .
[/font]
[font size="3"]Note to david: While I was off writing this book you jumped in with a quick answer. Funny how that works. I think we're in close agreement. Thank you.[/font][font size="3"]


[/font]

[david]

Charlie:

Yes we are in agreement, but I forgot about the refrigerator frame heater amp draw because my 16TBS doesn't have one. If you don't disable it, that alone will almost double your daily amp hour useage.

David

[jeeps]

[font size="3"]Thank you David and Charlie!  I am passing this all on to my non-forum-lurking husband who actually understands what you're saying.  This is SO helpful!![/font]

[font size="3"]BTW, my backpacking experience taught me how to shower in 1/2 gallon of water.  [/font] [font size="4"] 8-)[/font]

[pinstriper]

Practice boon-docking at a full campsite is a brilliant idea.

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/7492/thread" timestamp="1425607732" author="@brenda"]
[font size="3"]BTW, my backpacking experience taught me how to shower in 1/2 gallon of water.  [/font] [font size="4"] 8-)[/font]

[/quote][font size="3"]One half gallon shower? You'll do well, Brenda. You won't quite achieve 1/2 gal unless you take really cold showers because some water is wasted just getting the hot water across from the HW heater.

And Pinstriper: Thanks. It does let you develop techniques without being too far from the comforts of home .[/font]

[charliem]

[font size="3"]David, [/font]

[quote timestamp="1425590233" source="/post/7481/thread" author="@david"]Fresh water- This is the one we use the most of with daily showers, toilet flushing and kitchen clean up. We have never filled it more than about half full before stopping to camp and it lasts about 3 days. If you start with a full tank and with your 21 which has more capacity, you should be able to last a week.

[font color="e61963" size="3"]The LL website actually claims the 16TBS carries 8 more gallons FW than the 21RBS, but they may have goofed or they're including the 6 gallons permanently lost in the WH. Many mfgrs do just that to up their claimed FW capacity. I've measured 28 gallons usable until the pump sucks air, leaving a gallon or two in the tank below he pump intake.[/font]


Batteries- Our single Group 27 battery lasts at least 3 days without charging. If you triple your battery capacity by upgrading to two golf cart batteries in series, you should easily last a week with no charging. If you need to go more days then read the threads on this subject. Solar, towing, and a Honda generator are several ways to recharge.

[font size="3" color="e61963"]Did you talk your dealer into a Gp 27 battery? Most shops are just providing a low grade Gp 24. I told my dealer salesman I didn't want his battery; that I would install my ow[font color="e61963"]n. Apparently the word never reached the shop floor so now I have a brand new Gp 24 sitting unused in the garage.[/font]
[/font]

[/quote]

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/7495/thread" timestamp="1425611612" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/7492/thread" timestamp="1425607732" author="@brenda"][font size="3"]BTW, my backpacking experience taught me how to shower in 1/2 gallon of water.  [/font] [font size="4"] 8-)[/font]

[/quote][font size="3"]One half gallon shower? You'll do well, Brenda. You won't quite achieve 1/2 gal unless you take really cold showers because some water is wasted just getting the hot water across from the HW heater.

And Pinstriper: Thanks. It does let you develop techniques without being too far from the comforts of home .[/font]
[/quote]No seriously, it is flat out genius. It almost sounds like one of my own ideas. In fact, I'm pretty sure I had it along the way. But I'm generous enough to share the credit.