LED Bulbs?

[adventuregirl]

Hi all,

I have a 2013 RDB.  I'm looking for suggestions, recommendations and your experiences of LED bulbs to upgrade from the standard bulbs that came with the camper.  I prefer a warmer light and have replaced most of my home bulbs with the now available warm LED's.  Anyone know if the warmer light is available in the camper LED bulbs?  Also, I seem to recall reading last year in the old yahoo thread someone saying they were able to replace each two bulb fixture with one LED as they had plenty of light.  Any experiences or recommendations/benefits.  I don't mind putting two in, but if it's not necessary...

Thanks!

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]I'm not totally familiar with the 13RDB, but I suspect the fixtures are similar to mine and use the 194 wedge base bulbs. In my previous camper I used these in warm white and was quite satisfied. I would leave the dual bulb fixtures in place and only use one side if you like.




[a href="http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-wedge-base/194-led-bulb-18-smd-led-wedge-base-tower/397/"]http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-wedge-base/194-led-bulb-18-smd-led-wedge-base-tower/397/[/a]


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[mitch]

I put these in my 13QBB: Putco White 230921W-360-P 921 Type 360-Degree High Intensity LED Premium Replacement Bulb, purchased from Amazon but no longer available through them. They are a fair amount bluer than the incandescent that they replaced so you might not think they are warm enough. If I had to do it again I might try these, I suspect they would be warmer but I have no direct experience so take that for what it's worth (not too much).  They are significantly cheaper though. [a href="http://www.amazon.com/GRV-24-3528-Super-Bright-White/dp/B00EKN8FXC"]These[/a].

Mitch

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]A bit more on LEDs: In a previous camper I replaced incandescent 921 bulbs with LED towers, each having 18 SMD 5050 chips. They were slightly brighter and slightly whiter than the original bulbs when the bulbs were new, but an incandescent quickly deteriorates and ends up at about 50% brightness. Notice the black/silvery coating after a few weeks. When shopping, pay attention to the type of LED chip used. Of the two common types, 5050 and 3528, the 5050 is 3 times as bright. Therefore fewer 5050s are required for the same illumination. An array of 18 5050s can be more than 2 times as bright as 24 3528s depending on the layout. In my experience you can never have too much light. Especially if the fixtures are two sided so one side can be turned off. 

For techies: [a href="http://www.flexfireleds.com/pages/Comparison-between-3528-LEDs-and-5050-LEDs.html"]3528 vs 5050[/a]
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[mitch]

Interesting tidbit there, I wonder how the bulbs I have now would compare to the ones I linked to above.  Even though they are 3528 they have many more chips and all are oriented to one side.  Sorry to hijack your thread with tech stuff adventuregirl.

[adventuregirl]

Thanks for the input!  Please, continue to geek out.  
Signed, The Aerospace engineer by degree who fell into the world of tech software when there were no jobs in the very early 90's

[charliem]

[font face="arial" size="3"]Mitch,

With Adventuregirl's permission I'll add some comments. It's almost impossible to judge an LED array form published info. Without standard definitions, measurements, and test conditions there are only general rules and personal experience. That's why I spent time and wasted money before I settled on the devices I ended up with. And with more time and money I might have found an even better solution, but I was satisfied with the one I chose. So, some general thoughts:

[/font][ol type="decimal"][li][font face="arial" size="3"]Look for the type of individual LED chip used. I'm partial to the 5050s, but enough of other types will also work.
[/font][/li][li][font face="arial" size="3"]Die output is a function of size and current. Larger size and increased current mean more light output. The type numbers indicate size: e.g. "5050" means 50mm x 50mm and "3528" means 35mm x 28 mm. Therefore a 5050 provides about 2.5 times as much light as a 3528. The 5050 is actually 3 smaller chips and could be as much a 3 times as luminous. There is a difference between luminosity and brightness, but that's more engineer speak.[/font][/li][li][font face="arial" size="3"]Color temperature determines the "warmth" of the light. The cheapest and brightest LEDs have a color temp of 6500+ degrees and look blueish. Temps in the 4000-6000 range would be called cool white. Temps in the 3000 - 4000 degree range are considered warm white and approximate an incandescent bulb. My preference is to the high end of warm white.
[/font][/li][li][font face="arial" size="3"]Increased current will drive an LED chip harder and brighter and also hotter. Higher current may allow fewer chips per assembly for a given luminosity, but it will also reduce life and reliability. Heat is the enemy of electronics. Unfortunately there is no easy way to determine current from most published data. I usually look to see the number of resistors (the little black chips usually on the back of the board) per LED chip. It's not really accurate, but it's a start. Cheaper assemblies will skimp on the resistors and try to run the LEDs as hot/bright as they can. The lack of resistors also makes the assembly vulnerable to voltage variations we see in our RVs. Our battery voltage can vary from 11.5 at low charge to 14.4 during bulk recharge. Higher voltage means higher current means lower reliability. Fewer LEDs per resistor mitigate this.[/font][/li][li][font face="arial" size="3"]When comparing lumens vs an incandescent bulb remember that an incandescent degrades rapidly due to evaporation of the metal onto the glass surface. Just observe the black/silver coating inside a used bulb. End of life output of a bulb can be down to 50%. LEDs deteriorate too, but not a fast or far. 
[/font][/li][li][font face="arial" size="3"]The physical layout of the LEDs on the assembly affect their usage. A planar array pumps all light in a single direction whereas a tower attempts to be omnidirectional. I tried flat planar arrays thinking, for a ceiling light, I wanted all light going straight down. An LED, by nature, is a very narrow beam device. The planar arrays were too narrow even in the ceiling fixtures for my liking. I ended up using the tower configuration in the reflective dual socket ceiling fixtures and relegated the planar arrays to the reading lights in the bunks.  [/font][/li][li][font face="arial" size="3"]For all the above price and delivery time can be some indication of quality. It's still true you get what you pay for. Long delivery time usually indicate Chinese junk shipped directly from China. Problem is you never know what will be delivered. Read the one star reviews on Amazon. I've found that a vendor willing to stock in the USA for reasonable delivery generally has evaluated his inventory and is interested in preserving his reputation.
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[/font][/p][p][font face="arial" size="3"]I know this is a bit of a ramble, but I've spent lots of hours on this problem.  And ......I'm a techie engineer  8-|. You go, Adventuregirl!
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[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/840/thread" timestamp="1399296846" author="@charliem"][span style="background-color:transparent;font-family:arial;font-size:medium;"]Die output is a function of size and current. Larger size and increased current mean more light output. The type numbers indicate size: e.g. "5050" means 50mm x 50mm and "3528" means 35mm x 28 mm. Therefore a 5050 provides about 2.5 times as much light as a 3528. The 5050 is actually 3 smaller chips and could be as much a 3 times as luminous. There is a difference between luminosity and brightness, but that's more engineer speak.[/span][font face="arial" size="3"]

[/font][/quote]Everything you said is correct except this one.

[ul type="disc"][li]SMD part sizes are in 0.1mm, so a 5050 part is actually 5.0mm x 5.0mm.[/li][li]Package size does not give any indicator of the actual die size. You can have a great high-efficiency 3528 package LED that produced more light than a poorly made 5050 package LED. Usually 5050's will put out more light, but comparing LED's by package size is not very reliable. 5050's do usually have 3 dies, but with many LED bulbs coming straight from China with unbranded parts, who knows what the internals of the package looks like.[/li][/ul]

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]You're right, of course. 50mm would be a BIG chip! I won't write replies early in he morning anymore until coffee X2. And I realize size is unreliable. Just one more imprecise number in the imprecise science (?) of LED selection.

Camp on................................
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