Thoughtful response from Livin Lite on Yahoo forum

[funpilot]

[p][a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/145fb02cd769fb12"][/a]https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/livinlite/conversations/topics/5583[/p][p]
[/p][p]I like this response very much.   Not often do you get this much candor and passion from a manufacturer in a public forum any more.  I am now 95% of the way to get a LL.  Off to see one tomorrow!!![/p]

[tinkeringtechie]

Viewing that link requires a yahoo account and membership to the yahoo mailing list (which means they already got the email). Here's the cut and paste version of Scott's response:

I would love to reply.  First of all - please stop with all the "..THOR is changing LL" talk.  It just isn't true.  My team and myself continue to lead this company and make all of our own decisions.  What has THOR done? Stand back, cheer us on, and provide all the capital and internal systems support we could ever need as we continue to grow.  I'm sorry, but it just gets a bit frustrating to read on here how people are making assumptions and just stating things that aren't true.
We are LIVIN LITE and yes, we are expanding our product line up to include 5th wheels, and they are built a little bit differently than our other products, but each and every decision we made had a reason.   So - let's get this out of the way right now - the CAMPLITE travel trailer is NOT going to any steel frames, nor a rubber roof.   Regarding the 5th wheel frame being steel - about a year and a half ago, we were going to build an aluminum framed 5th wheel, but it was going to be very small, like maybe a 22' to 24' model.   But, the overwhelming response we were receiving was for larger, more practical models, in the 30' range.   We just didn't feel comfortable building a frame that large out of strictly aluminum, especially in the gooseneck area, where there is so much flex in a fifth wheel.  So - we found a frame that had been designed a few years back, but was rejected by the other RV manufacturer's, because it's lightweight characteristics were really designed to handle less weight that the traditional RV manufacturer's could build.   So - this unique, ultra lightweight 5th wheel frame design sat in the weeds until we discovered it and revived it.  Along comes LIVIN LITE, who, with our all-aluminum and composite structure and cabinetry could build a 5th wheel in the 5,800-6,400 lb. weight class.   So - we get the rigidity and the strength that we need to assure that our 5th wheels are built on a strong foundation, but we forgo the extra weight typically associated with traditionally-built 5th wheel frames!
Regarding the roof, as I explained in an earlier post, the aluminum just doesn't work when you have two different laminated surfaces coming together at different angles.  It rises up and buckles and would be impossible to trim on either side.   So what did we do?  We simply went with a tried and true rubber roof that is used on 98% of all RVs.   I guess I'm just not understanding the "Oh my, LIVIN LITE has sold out" posts that I am seeing on here. Really?  We just built the industry's FIRST EVER TRUE HALF TON TOWABLE 5th wheel - yes, using a custom designed ultra lightweight steel frame, and with a rubber roof - but with a complete aluminum cage construction "box" with aluminum constructed cabinetry and walls - all WITHOUT even a splinter of wood (yes it is azdel in the floor and roof, I misspoke in the other post).   We are feeling pretty good about this new CAMPLITE 5th wheel and so are our owners who are enjoying the MORE THAN ONE TON WEIGHT SAVINGS versus the competition!  Oh, and did I mention that our exteriors are metallic colors that can easily match the half-ton trucks towing them?   We still feel pretty special around here, even if some are claiming otherwise.  
ST

[djsamuel]

I just read that response and thought it was excellent. I posted today that the difference in the fifth wheel is due to design requirements and cost goals, not cost cutting from Thor. I hope people believe that now.

[vrvinmo]

Very interesting. Maybe the website should be updated as it slams steel....

"Introducing the New VRV 5th Wheel Toy Hauler - all the features and flexibility of our ultra-lightweight VRV toyhauler in a 5th Wheel.
 A unique combination of a cargo trailer and camper! Featuring QUICKSILVER's famous ALL-ALUMINUM construction, the NEW QUICKSILVER VRV 5th wheel Ultra-lightweight toyhauler just like our VRV's are built to stand the test of time. Unlike other 5th wheels, which are built using steel and plywood (which rusts and rots) - the QUICKSILVER VRV offers the ultimate in lightweight versatility, with more than enough room for your motorcycle, full size ATV (with roll cage); golf cart; scooters; and more - all in an insulated and finished, all aluminum coach!"

Personally, I love the idea of an all aluminum 5th wheel in the 22' to 24' range.
Anyway, if they are going to start building RV's or even an RV with steel frames, time to change the website maybe?

[david]

I stumbled across this thread as a new member. Ten years ago we bought one of the lightest 24 or 25' (can't remember which) 5th wheel trailers built; an Okanagan built in BC Canada. It certainly had a steel frame and the construction was pretty conventional but it was light, maybe 4,500 lbs dry.

I would think that LL could build a 24'er using the light weight steel frame described above, maybe a rubber roof, but I don't see why aluminum wouldn't work on the smaller 5th wheel and LL's normal aluminum framed interior with Azdel panels.

The weight would come out near 4,000 lbs dry and a loaded weight of maybe 4,500. This would let mini pickups with a V6 pull it fairly well. The Ranger/Frontier/Tacoma have tow ratings from 5-6,500 lbs so that would be a good fit.

Full size pickups have gotten crazy with tow ratings over 8,000 lbs for V8s. So a mostly aluminum 24'er wouldn't be quite so interesting to those pickup owners. Maybe a 6,000 lb 30' would be interesting to these guys.

So there may be a market for a small, lightweight 24' fifth wheel, but as noted above, probably a small one.

David