[p]Thought I would put my thought process down somewhere in writing to reinforce my recent decision to purchase a 16DB to pair with our 2014 Ford Escape Ti with factory tow package 3500# Tow cap. I know that next year I'll be wishing for a larger TV. So this is sort of a time capsule sanity check?[/p][p]
[/p][p]We have had an old 1988 Aljo Aly 24' TT setup in a seasonal campground for many years. Too heavy for our daily driver to pull throughout the years. We had fun there and in it but were always missing out on road trips to elsewhere because of the weight and age of it. Too old for a lot of campgrounds to even allow in so we found. We usually upgrade our new vehicle every few years but don't do the same with our trailer. We want a trailer to last forever.[/p][p]
[/p][p]But we want to travel with it now. Trips like 1000 - 2000 miles. Boondocking is our ultimate goal but never have done it. We know how to pack light and do without. We are ultralight backpackers. I can see never ever exceeding 3500# with the 16DB. Not even close really. Will even consider shedding the side mount A/C and microwave in it if it really made a difference.[/p][p]
[/p][p]So the TV is a little light for the intended purpose? Go slow and enjoy the journey.[/p][p]Upgrade to a larger TV next time (2 more years). Not a huge upgrade so it'll still be a good daily driver.[/p][p]Enjoy having gotten the 16DB that'll be pretty much good as new in 20 years with a little TLC. This when we may all be driving fuel cell or thorium reactor vehicles....heh heh heh.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Does this sound sane?[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]
[p]I think that you can keep the trailer weight below 3,500 lbs if you are careful. But I doubt if you will be happy with the performance. What engine do you have? I would want at least a 3 liter V6 to tow that trailer.[/p][p]
[/p][p]We tow our 16TBS which is 300 lbs heavier with a 3.5 liter V6. It is ok but by no means excessive.
David[/p]
Hi David.
It's 240hp at 5000rpm and makes 270ft/lb torque at 3000 rpm. It is the 2.0 litre Eco Boost 4cyl intercooled turbo. Thing is real strong for a 4cyl. I question it's longevity in this TV role though.
I do suspect I'll prefer something longer, heavier and with a couple more cylinders in the near future. My TT towing experience is limited to towing a 1965 17' lead weight single axle TT with a 19eighty something Olds Cutlass some twenty years ago. Locally. Now THAT was an adventure.... Would never be so stupid again now with some maturity. But have to say it did work in a "what a stupid idea" sort of way.
Do you see a problem with the HP and Torque specs for say 55mph 6-8% grade stuff? Thanks!
[quote timestamp="1424784772" source="/post/7122/thread" author="@whoofit"][p][span style="font-size:10pt;"]But we want to travel with it now. Trips like 1000 - 2000 miles. Boondocking is our ultimate goal but never have done it. We know how to pack light and do without. We are ultralight backpackers. I can see never ever exceeding 3500# with the 16DB. Not even close really. Will even consider shedding the side mount A/C and microwave in it if it really made a difference.[/span][/p][/quote]
I think you'd be surprised how quickly it all adds up. It's 2,750 dry (assuming that's accurate), but dry doesn't even include battery or propane. Add 150lb or so for that. Since you mention that you want to boondock, then you'll need to bring your own water at 8lbs/gallon. If you fill up, you're looking at 300lbs of water. So that's 3,200 without any food or camping gear. That's already too close to the limit in my opinion. Wouldn't you like to have the A/C and microwave?
So yes, it could possibly be done, but not without compromising. And even then it won't tow well. Personally I'd go for either the 11-13ft models or upgrade your tow vehicle. That way you'll be able to enjoy yourself while towing and not have to worry about how much stuff you can bring.
[p]Hi Tinker.
Yes I do agree with all of this especially the compromise.
The totally prudent, unlimitedly funded, thing to do is as you said, a new tow vehicle or a smaller trailer. The vehicle is new and under warranty for some tens of thousands of miles yet. A trade-in now would hurt too much financially to bear (had to scrape up the cash for the trailer).
So we were left with the choice of getting a smaller TT for towing comfort zone reasons. I might be weird on a TT forum saying this but we wanted as much trailer as possible, never expecting to get another trailer, ever. And we wanted to be sure of enough space for any surprise grandkids in the future with the 16' vs the 13' or less. Enter the reason for the Camp Lite with it's "all metal and composite construction" for a premium price.
The daily driver we buy new religiously every few years anyway. The 16DB was a 2013 New Old Stock item and we saved some $10k doing it now.
So something tells me maybe I made the wrong choice for now but that can be corrected when we buy a new vehicle in a couple years. In the meantime struggle maybe a bit with our existing TV.
Is this a bad way of doing things? Again, I do want pure utter criticism....I can take it. And Thanks![/p][p]
[/p][p]PS Do you mean that Livin Lite's specs could be off? An error in their favor? I do understand that dry weight is very different than wet and the hitch mounted gear comes into play. I do appreciate the explanation. But is Livin' Lite fudging the numbers in any way?[/p][p]
[/p][p]And as far as the AC and micro goes. Not for boondocking. It would mean bringing the Eu2000i with LP conversion at another ~40lbs.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]
You could also consider buying a used tow vehicle. We purchased a 2009 Ram 1500 for our trailer and use it for camping and when we need the utility of the pickup. Works great for us; and we can have the daily drivers separate (and better suited for daily commutes).
[p]Thanks DJ.
Looks like a smart thing to do. Do you like it for these long distance road trips well enough? Was hoping to get by a couple years still under warranty. Then go with a highlander or something.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Should I suspect the Camp Lite weights to be significantly off?[/p]
Those little EcoBoosts are great motors. If you've already made the TT purchase, worst case scenario is you just stay out of the really steep grades and forgo boondocking until you upgrade your TV. That still leaves you with more camping and adventures than you could do in a lifetime...
Hi Surfsup.
I did only put a deposit on the trailer as of today. That is my commitment that I can break with the loss of the $1k. Other than the money I'd feel aweful about backing out for two reasons. Those being my honor and it is a screamin' deal. The $1k would be a lesson learned I guess.
I just don't want to be "that guy" on the highway that makes the men feel the need to protect the women and children from..... I drive very defensively and respectfully.
I'm definitely gonna heed your advice and keep my head leveled with my expectations of this combo.
[quote source="/post/7132/thread" timestamp="1424792118" author="@whoofit"][p][span style="font-size:10pt;"]Should I suspect the Camp Lite weights to be significantly off?[/span]
[/p][/quote]Depends on your definition of significantly. The dry weight is probably correct +/- 50lbs since these are essentially hand built and there are always variances. BUT... what is considered in the dry weight is where they take their liberties. Was the fire extinguisher on there when they weighed it... how about the dining table? The water heater was definitely empty (that's 50lbs of water right there). There are other "maybes": Mattresses, carpet mats, etc...
So it could end up being +150lbs if none of that stuff was in the dry weight, and it's not like you're going to leave the fire extinguisher at home to save weight. Nor are you going to drain the hot water heater all the time.
I think you'll be fine with the Escape in the short-term. You're already considering weight conservation and aware of the weight limits of your tow vehicle, which is more then 90% of TT owners seem to be familiar with, and as surfsup mentions, the 2.0L EcoBoost with the tow package is a nice combo. It looks like the tow package even includes a built-in trailer controller?
Graham
Quotemy recent decision to purchase a 16DB to pair with our 2014 Ford Escape Ti with factory tow package 3500# Tow cap
Not sane.
QuoteIt is the 2.0 litre Eco Boost 4cyl intercooled turbo.
Not sane. It isn't about HP.
QuoteThe daily driver we buy new religiously every few years anyway.
Not generally the best plan, financially. Not that you asked about this, but I just find it odd that you are throwing away lots of money here while also then complaining about losing money on upgrading the TV.
QuoteDo you see a problem with the HP and Torque specs for say 55mph 6-8% grade stuff? Thanks!
I don't think you appreciate what it takes to tow on a 6-8% grade and maintain 55mph. I think part of your compromise will be towing up those grades closer to 40-45 mph. Plus, you'll have to come down that same grade on a vehicle that weighs too much for a tow vehicle that weighs too little, has a short wheelbase, and whose brakes aren't rated for what you're trying to stop (even with trailer brakes). The tail will be wagging the dog.
Quote
Is this a bad way of doing things? Again, I do want pure utter criticism....I can take it. And Thanks!
I won't sugar coat it. Yes, it is a bad plan. You don't have enough tow vehicle to SAFELY tow your trailer. Forget about comfort. And some of us are on the same roads as you.
QuotePS Do you mean that Livin Lite's specs could be off? An error in their favor?
The specs for dry are without options. Including the "XL Package" or whatever else was "stock". So they are understated by several hundred pounds, even before, as TT said, propane, the propane can, the battery, water, whatever you have in the dump tanks, etc.
For reference, our 14DBS, which we tow with (nearly) empty water tanks and dump before we leave the campground (which you can't do if you're boondocking) scales at 3700# consistently. Spec dry weight is 2650.
You can't pack light enough to make this safe and still boondock.
You might find it less financially painful to trade your new tow vehicle on an older, more capable tow vehicle. But you won't have a brand new, fully warranted tow vehicle anymore.
Or, if you already bought the TT, just store it for the next year or two until you have the tow vehicle. Which, if you think about it, might what it really took to make things work for you: buy a 2 year old ONS and let it sit until your tow vehicle catches up. And pocket the $10k difference.
But to be SURE...find the nearest scales, load it the way you plan to go - I mean with clothes and food and flashlights and beachballs and fishing rods and everything, tanks the way you will, etc. and go find out empirically. Then you'll know how far under/over you really are.
Thanks all for helping. I really do appreciate the great input. No one has called me crazy. No one has warned me of impending doom. I know it's hard to get a sense of feel for anonymous internet personalities and prudent, conservative advice must be given to help ensure no loss of life or limb. You guys really pulled it off with class and I very much appreciate it.
Hope to see some of you all on the road at some point. I got a 30 day temp tag with the trailer and will need to save further to get the permanent ones mounted-up. Until then I need to snow chisel out a home for it in the backyard.
Going for it. Wish me luck!
Steve and April.
Congrats on your TT down payment/purchase and Hope to see you on the road, soon!
Hi Graham.
The brake controller is additional. What the towing package gives you is the hitch, sensors and anti sway programmed into the vehicle. It's supposedly a way of sensing sway and automatically applying the brakes at each wheel independently to help reduce it. Sounds like a gas guzzling solution to a point but I'm not sure. Sway bars may be needed.
The Prodigy is already mounted though.
[quote source="/post/7146/thread" timestamp="1424795578" author="@whoofit"]Hi Graham.
The brake controller is additional. What the towing package gives you is the hitch, sensors and anti sway programmed into the vehicle. It's supposedly a way of sensing sway and automatically applying the brakes at each wheel independently to help reduce it. Sounds like a gas guzzling solution to a point but I'm not sure. Sway bars may be needed.
The Prodigy is already mounted though.[/quote]Gotcha...I saw the reference to the anti-sway feature and made an assumption it included the brake controller as well. Sounds like a worth-while feature to have regardless, as long as it only intervenes when needed.
-Graham
[p]Hi Pinstriper.
This is very bad news to say the least. Just when I thought I was fairly good to go this pops up. I wonder if the dealership is gonna be able to weigh this trailer for me when I arrive tomorrow. Like you said it may be trouble even just pulling it home dry and new.
Just when I thought there was no doom.
The ~10k savings is on the one time purchase of the "forever" trailer. Maybe forever just got a couple useful years shorter?
We'll see how she pulls tomorrow.
Don't think I'm not sweating a bit now from your advice. If we ever share the road it will not be my fault, of this you can be certain.[/p][p]
[/p][p]PS I meant to say If there is an accident or something above. Geez that last statement of mine sounded a tad bit rude...heh
[/p]
[quote source="/post/7144/thread" timestamp="1424795470" author="@exploringcarolina"]Congrats on your TT down payment/purchase and Hope to see you on the road, soon!
[/quote][p]Thanks Exploringcarolina![/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/7146/thread" timestamp="1424795578" author="@whoofit"] What the towing package gives you is the hitch, sensors and anti sway programmed into the vehicle. It's supposedly a way of sensing sway and automatically applying the brakes at each wheel independently to help reduce it. Sounds like a gas guzzling solution to a point but I'm not sure. Sway bars may be needed.[/quote]That programming only kicks in when things get really bad (like about lose control). It does not adjust continuously. For a small tow vehicle you should absolutely have a passive sway control system that's always there. I'm not sure if the escape supports weight distributing hitches, but you'll at least want a friction-based sway bar.
I've been eyeing them too Tinker. I think the sway bars are gonna be the best way all-around. I'll need to talk to Ford about this. I am surprised they didn't try to sell me some when they installed the controller. I might just be incompatibility. THAT's why I ask where there is true knowledge in a place like this.
This programming kicks in in normal slippery conditions. Up here with all the snow we've had I've seen it a few times this winter.
I have towed already with this TV. I run a small business that generates some construction debris. I usually pull the 8x12 utility trailer with my E250 but have made a couple runs to the scrap yard with the Escape. 900lbs of trailer and up to 2200lbs of waste in the load. All hilly terrain but mostly 40mph or so. I am pretty impressed with what I've seen.
But that is a far cry from 1000 miles at 55mph and all the additional frontal area of the 16DB....
Quote from: @whoofit" timestamp="1424788972" source="/post/7126/threadHi David.
It's 240hp at 5000rpm and makes 270ft/lb torque at 3000 rpm. It is the 2.0 litre Eco Boost 4cyl intercooled turbo. Thing is real strong for a 4cyl. I question it's longevity in this TV role though. Do you see a problem with the HP and Torque specs for say 55mph 6-8% grade stuff? Thanks!
[p]As others have said, it isn't the available hp and torque, it is displacement. That engine has a turbocharger to be able to produce its 240 hp. That is very close to the numbers for the 3.5 liter engine in our Pathfinder. In normal driving use, you will get something like 30 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. That is somewhere close to 28 horse power required at a steady speed (modern gasoline engines produce 12 hp for every gph of gas burn rate). Every now and then you hit the pedal to the metal and produce 240 hp but only for a few seconds. With that useage/load profile the little engine will last a long while.[/p][p]
[/p][p]But when towing you will get about 13-14 mpg like most of us. That kicks it up to 53 hp at a steady 60 mph. That is putting a more serious load on the engine, and it is full time.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I think that the engine will be fine, but don't expect to tow 50,000 miles and get more than 100,000 miles out of the engine. But a few thousand miles until you move up to a bigger TV should work out ok.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Do consider sway control and maybe a light WD hitch. Your TV has a shorter wheel base than mine and that creates instability.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I am no where as pessimistic as Pinstriper. But you are on the edge of insanity. Stay away from the dark side.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p]
Quote from: @whoofit" source="/post/7132/thread" timestamp="1424792118[p]Thanks DJ.
Looks like a smart thing to do. Do you like it for these long distance road trips well enough? Was hoping to get by a couple years still under warranty. Then go with a highlander or something.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Should I suspect the Camp Lite weights to be significantly off?[/p]
For us, the Ram is terrific. We've towed from Florida to Arizona and Utah and the towing is very secure and stable. To top it off, the comfort level of the Ram is outstanding, and we are not tired at all after a full day of driving. It is a crew cab and there is plenty of room in the cab for 6 adults if necessary, although we haven't gone past four.
I have a 110 mile round trip to and from work, so since I don't want to pile the miles onto my tow vehicle, I have my daily driver; my old PT Cruiser with over 326,000 miles that keeps on chugging along. Although I would LOVE to drive the Ram every day (it is that nice)I really don't want to put over 100 miles a day on it. Plus it is a lot of vehicle for just me to travel to work. In addition, the utility of having a pickup truck is well worth it; although I do live in a rural area. Sometimes though; an adequate tow vehicle and daily driver can be mutually exclusive.
I would definitely NOT downsize your trailer. If you do; you'll be wishing for a larger trailer when it comes time to replace the tow vehicle. I would either limit the distance of towing your trailer with your current tow vehicle as you become aware if your rig's limitations; or do as we did and invest a bit in a used larger tow vehicle that can also be used for other uses.
Hope this helps.
Doug
[quote timestamp="1424796321" source="/post/7152/thread" author="@whoofit"][p]Hi Pinstriper.
This is very bad news to say the least. Just when I thought I was fairly good to go this pops up. I wonder if the dealership is gonna be able to weigh this trailer for me when I arrive tomorrow. Like you said it may be trouble even just pulling it home dry and new.
Just when I thought there was no doom.
The ~10k savings is on the one time purchase of the "forever" trailer. Maybe forever just got a couple useful years shorter?
We'll see how she pulls tomorrow.
Don't think I'm not sweating a bit now from your advice. If we ever share the road it will not be my fault, of this you can be certain.[/p][p]
[/p][p]PS I meant to say If there is an accident or something above. Geez that last statement of mine sounded a tad bit rude...heh
[/p][/quote][p]You were talking about internet personas, and mine, here, is to be the guy that says "you don't have enough tow vehicle". [/p][p]
[/p][p]You will have car dealers and TT dealers urging you to say "go for it", because they want to make the sale. So I try to be the voice of balance. [/p][p]
[/p][p]And as David noted, I may be on the pessimistic side, because I believe in overkilling the margin. Case in point, we're already thinking of upgrading from the '13 4Runner to a Sequoia, and will certainly do so before taking our towing outside the region and into cross-country trips. Many would call that unnecessary, and that's exactly the point. We want to err on the side of too much capability, not too little.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I think you will be fine to pull it home and to the scales. But you were talking about a 1,000 mile trip, and 6-8% grades.[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/7156/thread" timestamp="1424797935" author="@david"][quote source="/post/7126/thread" timestamp="1424788972" author="@whoofit"][/quote][p]
[/p][p]I am no where as pessimistic as Pinstriper. But you are on the edge of insanity. Stay away from the dark side.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p][/quote][p]David,[/p][p]
[/p][p]Truer words have never been spoken. I am just now recovering from a combination of shame, guilt and hilarious laughter after reading this. This is exactly where I place myself for even buying the dang trailer at all! It's also where I envisioned being with this combos roadworthiness. The confirmation is well received.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Thank you for your explanation. It was well conceived and formed. I only hope that future readers will benefit from this thread as much as I have. 13-14mpg would be good enough. The only downside is the Escape needs Premium fuel to achieve these specs, minus 9hp from Regular, but it's all good. Trade-in time is now scheduled to be within the next 50K.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
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[/p][p]
[/p]
Pinstriper,
I can definitely understand your persona. I'd venture a guess that more than a couple accidents could have been avoided by following your thought process. I'm not sure how to quantify that statement other than to give, as an example, a Semi pulling fifth wheel TT is safer than a 1Ton would be for various reasons.
Your point is well taken. You leave more room for the unforeseen. I'm cutting it too close to give a big thumbs-up to. I deeply appreciate your concern for our safety. I promise to NEVER sacrifice the safety of others. Though I might tick some off by driving slower than they'd like. Thank you!
And good luck with the upgrade! Looking forward to reading of this.
Hi, I do have the same vehicule than you but my travel trailer is the 13QBB. Maybe if you don't plan to buy a new TV this year you could rent a truck for the weekends that you go out for a camping trip? I don't know how much it cost but you could consider it for as temporary, I don't know maybe uhaul I think they rent ford f150 or similar truck and probably another rental company also do it? I just don't know what kind of trip and how often so not sure of the cost. The Escape is a nice towing vehicule but the 13QBB would be my maximum as I brings stuff with me like bike, BBQ, camping gear, sometime water, food, two propane tank, etc.. so for me I am sure I would exceed the weight limit with the 16DB. Also regarding the Escape and Led lights on trailer, you will have a problem and you will need to buy an adapter, if you don't it will still operate but you will get a slight blink and the escape is not going to detect that you have a trailer so the sway control etc. will not be enabled. You can see my post on this forum about this issue (give me a minute I will find it for you)
EDIT: so here is my thread about the led lights on trailer and escape and it also assume that you added a brake controller and changed your 4way plug for a 7way one as the adapter is for a 7way one. If your trailer as regular lights and not led you won't need the adaptor
http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/490/ford-escape-light-problem-solution
Forgot to address the 1,000 mile trip and 6-8% grades issue.
From a pure hp/torque standpoint you will be fine. Your engine has same output as my Pathfinder does and we have done 1,000 mile trips and 6-8% grades with no problem. On an 8% grade we run at about 45 mph and the CVT transmission shifts down and kicks the engine up to about 3,500 rpm. That lets the engine pull without lugging.
Your engine will have to work that much harder on those grades and all of that hp/torque has to come from an engine that is much smaller than mine (3.5 liters), so it will wear faster. Also you don't want to overheat the engine while on a long uphill grade. So you might want to look into an exhaust gas temperature gauge which will give a good indication when you are overloading the engine. The turbo diesel boating guys use them all of the time to stay within sanity. Search the net and see if others have done that and how.
David
DJ,
I'll have to keep the Ram on my shortlist. I have been in a few locally and people around here seem to like them too. A lot in fact. My brother will buy no other brand for plowing and other strenuous tasks he does regularly. It's good to hear they are comfortable for long hauls. Like I mentioned above I own an E250 for work. There is no way in Hades I'd be in that thing for 200 miles comfortable....lol.
Your point about the TT size is exactly where I made the decision to buy up instead of down. With the massive cargo hauling capacity of these Camp Lites a world of opportunities open up there. They can practically haul their own weight in cargo. So for future proofing the bigger trailer seemed best for us.
My wife is a nurse and works all weather conditions through the night which is why I was able to talk her into the "huge" Escape...lol Maybe a season or two of only taking bare essentials in the trailer will convince her for me we need a much larger vehicle!
Thanks man!
Wow, Paul
Thanks for the heads-up! I don't even know if they are LED or not. Was only concern about the interior lighting for this before now. Truth be told I bought this trailer sight unseen from a dealer and have never set foot inside a Camp Lite. Bought it based on info here and elsewhere with a recommendation from a distant friend.
If worse comes to worse I suppose I could rent a truck. I have a 3/4 ton van I could use locally for point to point towing but not for road trips. It is less than ideal. It sounds like you take a lot of gear and have a great time with it. I'd say that is the most important part of all of this.
Thanks for the important info and personal experience with your combination!
David,
Is this gauge commonly found in automotive use? Haven't heard of those using this before. It sounds like a great addition. If I can manage to keep it relatively normal all the time that would be brilliant. I'll have to check this one out closely. I do see the Escape being abused by this endeavor. But like you said a few thousand miles should be OK as long as the driver pays attention.
[quote source="/post/7169/thread" timestamp="1424807637" author="@whoofit"]Wow, Paul
Thanks for the heads-up! I don't even know if they are LED or not. Was only concern about the interior lighting for this before now. Truth be told I bought this trailer sight unseen from a dealer and have never set foot inside a Camp Lite. Bought it based on info here and elsewhere with a recommendation from a distant friend.
If worse comes to worse I suppose I could rent a truck. I have a 3/4 ton van I could use locally for point to point towing but not for road trips. It is less than ideal. It sounds like you take a lot of gear and have a great time with it. I'd say that is the most important part of all of this.
Thanks for the important info and personal experience with your combination![/quote]
Yes I found out about the led lights problem (the lights of the brakes and flashers are led) after I had left the RV dealer, I had a dash message saying there was a problem with the lights and I noticed while I was stopped for gas that they were blinking slightly but it was operating, also when you backup the sensers was beeping to say that there was something behind me, and this does deactive now with the adaptor (when I put reverse it says on my message center something about trailer so the sensor doesn't beep to tell you are going to hit something). The brakes and everything was working without the adaptor I did over 1000km trip without it (yeah the dealer is far away from me lol) but I got the adapter after and it solved the problem. There is other solution I found on other forum some are putting some resistors on the trailer wiring instead of using the adaptor but I prefer the adaptor it's easiest. This is a common problem with Escape you can find it if you google.
Installed resistors supplied with LED kit to make LED turn signal flash properly on one installation. On the last LED turn signal installation purchased a plug & play NAPA electronic flasher, worked great with LED turn signals.
Superbright LEDs also has plug & play electronic flashers & resistors for LED turn signals.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/search/led-products/flashers/
Here's the NAPA electronic flasher used on my 35 year old motorcycle LED turn signal installation:
[a href="http://s657.photobucket.com/user/vstromklr/media/2013/Honda%20CX500D%20Street%20Tracker%20Project/IMG_5366_zps2eeb9a7e.jpg.html"]
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/vstromklr/2013/Honda%20CX500D%20Street%20Tracker%20Project/IMG_5366_zps2eeb9a7e.jpg)
Quote from: @david" timestamp="1424797935" source="/post/7156/threadQuote from: @whoofit" timestamp="1424788972" source="/post/7126/threadHi David.
It's 240hp at 5000rpm and makes 270ft/lb torque at 3000 rpm. It is the 2.0 litre Eco Boost 4cyl intercooled turbo. Thing is real strong for a 4cyl. I question it's longevity in this TV role though. Do you see a problem with the HP and Torque specs for say 55mph 6-8% grade stuff? Thanks!
[p]As others have said, it isn't the available hp and torque, it is displacement. That engine has a turbocharger to be able to produce its 240 hp. That is very close to the numbers for the 3.5 liter engine in our Pathfinder. In normal driving use, you will get something like 30 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. That is somewhere close to 28 horse power required at a steady speed (modern gasoline engines produce 12 hp for every gph of gas burn rate). Every now and then you hit the pedal to the metal and produce 240 hp but only for a few seconds. With that useage/load profile the little engine will last a long while.[/p][p]
[/p][p]But when towing you will get about 13-14 mpg like most of us. That kicks it up to 53 hp at a steady 60 mph. That is putting a more serious load on the engine, and it is full time.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I think that the engine will be fine, but don't expect to tow 50,000 miles and get more than 100,000 miles out of the engine. But a few thousand miles until you move up to a bigger TV should work out ok.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Do consider sway control and maybe a light WD hitch. Your TV has a shorter wheel base than mine and that creates instability.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I am no where as pessimistic as Pinstriper. But you are on the edge of insanity. Stay away from the dark side.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p]
Woo: I agree with David's statements.
I own a 16DB (tow with a V6 Nissan Frontier) and I have a 2013 escape ecoboost at work I drive sometimes. I don't think you would be a danger to society towing with the escape, but I think you will quickly be ready for an upgrade. I'd go get your smokin' deal and give it a try, but I have my doubts you'll own the escape much longer after towing the 16DB up any kind of hills
I like both the harnesss and the flasher fixes. Got to see if they make a flasher to fit the Escape. Neither of these will be at hand in the morning for our trip to the Canadian border to get the trailer. I'm wondering, if there are replacement bulbs I could fit tomorrow. Conventional bulbs to replace the led ones that are on the trailer?
This would get us through. I cringe enough never having seen the trailer, never having towed the trailer and now dealing with Fords fubar that is going to drive me crazy, and possibly be dangerous, for a 5.5 hr drive home with it.
Anyone know if standard bulbs will fit and what the types may be?
tlbones, I actually want one already! Will have to make do with what we have for the time being. Now with brake and turns not working correctly I feel like I'm getting to the edge of danger to society if I drive it that way.
It's 2014 and led lighting is new to Ford....sheesh!
If I had my choice I'd get something else. Not too much bigger though.
Quote from: @whoofit" timestamp="1424823592" source="/post/7181/threadI'm wondering, if there are replacement bulbs I could fit tomorrow. Conventional bulbs to replace the led ones that are on the trailer?
Anyone know if standard bulbs will fit and what the types may be?
If they're like mine then it's not a matter of bulbs because the whole fixture is a custom LED assembly. Maybe the marker lights use bulbs, but the brake lights (the ones the Escape is "looking" for) are custom LED housings.
[quote timestamp="1424804460" source="/post/7161/thread" author="@whoofit"]Your point is well taken. You leave more room for the unforeseen. I'm cutting it too close to give a big thumbs-up to. I deeply appreciate your concern for our safety. I promise to NEVER sacrifice the safety of others. Though I might tick some off by driving slower than they'd like. Thank you!
[/quote]Yep, that's what I was trying to get across.
That's what I feared. A custom lamp assembly. Sounds like this ship may be delayed.
[quote source="/post/7183/thread" timestamp="1424823977" author="@whoofit"]tlbones, I actually want one already! Will have to make do with what we have for the time being. Now with brake and turns not working correctly I feel like I'm getting to the edge of danger to society if I drive it that way.
It's 2014 and led lighting is new to Ford....sheesh!
If I had my choice I'd get something else. Not too much bigger though.[/quote]Just fix the brakes and forget the turn signals. I've come to the conclusion they must be optional in PA judging by their lack of use. This is probably true in your state also.
Quick check online and did not find an after market signal relay. Here's more info on your relay:
http://www.partsgeek.com/m463tf5-ford-escape-turn-signal-flasher.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=MP&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Bing&gb=pp&utm_term=&ad=3082680927
I'm confident there's an aftermarket electronic relay available, but would have to search a little. Not all electronic relays will solve the flashing issue. NAPA worked for me and Super Bright LEDs know how to resolve this issue. Had a couple that did not work.
Towed my 2010 CampLite 11 home with a 1987 Toyota Pickup & did not have issues with the trailer lights. After what Paul said, checked a Ford Escape forum, there have been other issues with LED trailer lights working properly, too.
[quote source="/post/7181/thread" timestamp="1424823592" author="@whoofit"]I like both the harnesss and the flasher fixes. Got to see if they make a flasher to fit the Escape. Neither of these will be at hand in the morning for our trip to the Canadian border to get the trailer. I'm wondering, if there are replacement bulbs I could fit tomorrow. Conventional bulbs to replace the led ones that are on the trailer?
This would get us through. I cringe enough never having seen the trailer, never having towed the trailer and now dealing with Fords fubar that is going to drive me crazy, and possibly be dangerous, for a 5.5 hr drive home with it.
Anyone know if standard bulbs will fit and what the types may be?[/quote]
Are you buying the trailer in Canada? Which province? I bought mine in Canada also (well I am from Canada) but the dealer was 12 hour drive from my home the dealer was in Québec
tlbones, I got a good laugh out of that one last night. Needed it too after the 15 hour ordeal. Had typed up a lengthy post to this thread but forgot to login and lost it all.
exploringcarolina, thanks for the research. I too am not sure a flasher fix is the best option. I've decided on the harness. But the pull home last night went well without it. We had the problems but we determined they weren't show stoppers. Everything still worked but was a bit odd.
Paul, we bought the trailer in St Albans, VT USA. Right on the Canadaian border. It was around 260 miles or so from our home. We hit delay after delay, one of them being the NH visit of VP Biden.... sheesh can't plan for everything I guess. I got really ticked about that one. That's the second time me and him crossed paths and was delayed by his visiting. First one was in St Thomas, US Virgin Islands where he frequents and has family in.
So, we made the trip and the purchase.
The Bad:
It costed a lot of ducats.
Flasher and brake light issue/annoyance.
Guy that mounted the brake controller (not this dealer) did not provide 12V charging to the TT battery.
Not LED lighting where I wanted it most, in the trailer.
No tank gauges.
Not in love with the overall layout. We knew this before hand and will eventually work to change it to suit our needs better. Got a good welder friend.
The Good:
It is in brand new shape. No damage, fading, missing parts. Just as advertised and as we imagined. We tested and inspected every little thing there. Indoors in their shop. The dealer was awesome. TC's RV in St Albans, VT.... woot woot! They actually remounted our brake controller and test drove the trailer with us before we set sail. They did not sell us the controller either. Spent a good hour showing us around the unit.
This combo towed and stopped like a dream. I mean, if any of you all know I-89 you get the picture. Very hilly with posted warnings of steep grades and high wind conditions. This little Escape was able to handle the trip at 65 mph easy on cruise control. Never dropping below 63 or above 67 and never exceeding 3500 rpm on the tach unless I wanted to pass or go slower. Even up the hills. Although it was only 25F the temp gauge read as normal as no trailer at all.
The handling I would term superb in every way. Zero sway (no sway bars). Zero sag, no WDH ( maybe an inch?). Our existing ball setup was right on the money too. Large coach buses and Tractor Trailers passed us with no blowing us off the road feeling.
I know that I am still missing something and there are far better options out there. But for now I am really pleased. I know it is still unloaded weight but I can't see why we wouldn't be able to travel well wit this combo. Maybe slower. Maybe need to add sway control but we are set for some good times ahead. A big thumbs-up!
The Ugly;
Looks like I'll be stopping for gas a lot. 11 mpg with a 14 gal tank. Must resist the snack counter at all these stations....lol
This is my experience so far with only 300 miles under my belt. That is like an infant spouting out "Damn, Life Is Good!". But it is good... Thnaks for all the advice, tips and help!
[quote source="/post/7214/thread" timestamp="1424954403" author="@whoofit"]tlbones, I got a good laugh out of that one last night. Needed it too after the 15 hour ordeal. Had typed up a lengthy post to this thread but forgot to login and lost it all.
exploringcarolina, thanks for the research. I too am not sure a flasher fix is the best option. I've decided on the harness. But the pull home last night went well without it. We had the problems but we determined they weren't show stoppers. Everything still worked but was a bit odd.
Paul, we bought the trailer in St Albans, VT USA. Right on the Canadaian border. It was around 260 miles or so from our home. We hit delay after delay, one of them being the NH visit of VP Biden.... sheesh can't plan for everything I guess. I got really ticked about that one. That's the second time me and him crossed paths and was delayed by his visiting. First one was in St Thomas, US Virgin Islands where he frequents and has family in.
So, we made the trip and the purchase.
The Bad:
It costed a lot of ducats.
Flasher and brake light issue/annoyance.
Guy that mounted the brake controller (not this dealer) did not provide 12V charging to the TT battery.
Not LED lighting where I wanted it most, in the trailer.
No tank gauges.
Not in love with the overall layout. We knew this before hand and will eventually work to change it to suit our needs better. Got a good welder friend.
The Good:
It is in brand new shape. No damage, fading, missing parts. Just as advertised and as we imagined. We tested and inspected every little thing there. Indoors in their shop. The dealer was awesome. TC's RV in St Albans, VT.... woot woot! They actually remounted our brake controller and test drove the trailer with us before we set sail. They did not sell us the controller either. Spent a good hour showing us around the unit.
This combo towed and stopped like a dream. I mean, if any of you all know I-89 you get the picture. Very hilly with posted warnings of steep grades and high wind conditions. This little Escape was able to handle the trip at 65 mph easy on cruise control. Never dropping below 63 or above 67 and never exceeding 3500 rpm on the tach unless I wanted to pass or go slower. Even up the hills. Although it was only 25F the temp gauge read as normal as no trailer at all.
The handling I would term superb in every way. Zero sway (no sway bars). Zero sag, no WDH ( maybe an inch?). Our existing ball setup was right on the money too. Large coach buses and Tractor Trailers passed us with no blowing us off the road feeling.
I know that I am still missing something and there are far better options out there. But for now I am really pleased. I know it is still unloaded weight but I can't see why we wouldn't be able to travel well wit this combo. Maybe slower. Maybe need to add sway control but we are set for some good times ahead. A big thumbs-up!
The Ugly;
Looks like I'll be stopping for gas a lot. 11 mpg with a 14 gal tank. Must resist the snack counter at all these stations....lol
This is my experience so far with only 300 miles under my belt. That is like an infant spouting out "Damn, Life Is Good!". But it is good... Thnaks for all the advice, tips and help!
[/quote]
Sounds like the Escape worked well for you. If you worry about gas mileage with a larger tow vehicle in the future, don't. Even with the Ram 1500 with a V8, I averaged about 11.5 MPG on the trip out to Arizona/Utah. The Ram has a 26 gallon tank; I can't imagine 11MPG with a 14 gallon tank!
Great news though. Enjoy!
[quote timestamp="1424954403" author="@whoofit" source="/post/7214/thread"]tlbones, I got a good laugh out of that one last night. Needed it too after the 15 hour ordeal. Had typed up a lengthy post to this thread but forgot to login and lost it all.
exploringcarolina, thanks for the research. I too am not sure a flasher fix is the best option. I've decided on the harness. But the pull home last night went well without it. We had the problems but we determined they weren't show stoppers. Everything still worked but was a bit odd.
Paul, we bought the trailer in St Albans, VT USA. Right on the Canadaian border. It was around 260 miles or so from our home. We hit delay after delay, one of them being the NH visit of VP Biden.... sheesh can't plan for everything I guess. I got really ticked about that one. That's the second time me and him crossed paths and was delayed by his visiting. First one was in St Thomas, US Virgin Islands where he frequents and has family in.
So, we made the trip and the purchase.
The Bad:
It costed a lot of ducats.
Flasher and brake light issue/annoyance.
Guy that mounted the brake controller (not this dealer) did not provide 12V charging to the TT battery.
Not LED lighting where I wanted it most, in the trailer.
No tank gauges.
Not in love with the overall layout. We knew this before hand and will eventually work to change it to suit our needs better. Got a good welder friend.
The Good:
It is in brand new shape. No damage, fading, missing parts. Just as advertised and as we imagined. We tested and inspected every little thing there. Indoors in their shop. The dealer was awesome. TC's RV in St Albans, VT.... woot woot! They actually remounted our brake controller and test drove the trailer with us before we set sail. They did not sell us the controller either. Spent a good hour showing us around the unit.
This combo towed and stopped like a dream. I mean, if any of you all know I-89 you get the picture. Very hilly with posted warnings of steep grades and high wind conditions. This little Escape was able to handle the trip at 65 mph easy on cruise control. Never dropping below 63 or above 67 and never exceeding 3500 rpm on the tach unless I wanted to pass or go slower. Even up the hills. Although it was only 25F the temp gauge read as normal as no trailer at all.
The handling I would term superb in every way. Zero sway (no sway bars). Zero sag, no WDH ( maybe an inch?). Our existing ball setup was right on the money too. Large coach buses and Tractor Trailers passed us with no blowing us off the road feeling.
I know that I am still missing something and there are far better options out there. But for now I am really pleased. I know it is still unloaded weight but I can't see why we wouldn't be able to travel well wit this combo. Maybe slower. Maybe need to add sway control but we are set for some good times ahead. A big thumbs-up!
The Ugly;
Looks like I'll be stopping for gas a lot. 11 mpg with a 14 gal tank. Must resist the snack counter at all these stations....lol
This is my experience so far with only 300 miles under my belt. That is like an infant spouting out "Damn, Life Is Good!". But it is good... Thnaks for all the advice, tips and help![/quote]I agree with the gas station stop! I did a couple of long trip and had to stop quite frequently! But the Escape perform really well for me, and I am happy to learn that it's going well for you with the 16DB, I almost got the 14DBS instead but I was scared about the weight, maybe I should have got it afterall :) but I still like my 13QBB a lot!
As you note, slowing down definitely improves mpg. But turning off the cruise control also helps, particularly on a road with undulating hills. Let your TV speed drop about 5 mph going up a hill and then pick it back up on the downside.
I did an informal experiment driving a couple of hours with and without cruise control, but staying at the same average speed and the same terrain. I picked up about 1 MPG without.
David
[quote source="/post/7214/thread" timestamp="1424954403" author="@whoofit"]Must resist the snack counter at all these stations....lol
[/quote][p]
[/p][p]You will DEFINATELY need a bigger tow vehicle if you don't avoid the snacks at the Quickie-Mart ![/p][p]
[/p][p]I'd love to know what she weighs at the scales. I'm glad its working for you so far.[/p][p]
[/p]
Does the escape have a "tow/haul" mode for the transmission? If not, you'll probably want to avoid cruise control to save your transmission. Without it, the computer is way too optimistic about what the transmission is capable of to try and save gas. Instead it ends up shifting too much and staying in a high gear can overheat the transmission. You'll want to stay one gear down from the top. So if it's a 5-speed, then stay in 4th on the flats. It would seem like it might hurt your MPG, but when you're towing it doesn't really have an impact... you'll be hemorrhaging gas no matter what :-)
Also... make sure that you know what the torque converter feels like when it locks (and note the RPM change). You'll want that torque converter locked when you're at cruising speed. If it's not, you'll blow up your transmission in no time because it generates a lot of heat when it's not locked. That's another reason to avoid cruise control. It might use your overdrive gear with the torque converter unlocked and that's pretty much the worst thing for the transmission.
[quote source="/post/7230/thread" author="@tinkeringtechie" timestamp="1424969359"]Does the escape have a "tow/haul" mode for the transmission? If not, you'll probably want to avoid cruise control to save your transmission. Without it, the computer is way too optimistic about what the transmission is capable of to try and save gas. Instead it ends up shifting too much and staying in a high gear can overheat the transmission. You'll want to stay one gear down from the top. So if it's a 5-speed, then stay in 4th on the flats. It would seem like it might hurt your MPG, but when you're towing it doesn't really have an impact... you'll be hemorrhaging gas no matter what :-)[/quote]
There is no tow/haul mode but there is a sport mode and I use it while towing since it deactivate the O/D and I believe it says in the owner manuel (or I saw that somewhere else) to use the Sport mode while towing with the Escape. Also on the sport mode you can choose what gear to use manually or leave it automatic. I never tried the manual mode
[quote source="/post/7231/thread" timestamp="1424969603" author="@paul"]There is no tow/haul mode but there is a sport mode and I use it while towing since it deactivate the O/D and I believe it says in the owner manuel (or I saw that somewhere else) to use the Sport mode while towing with the Escape. Also on the sport mode you can choose what gear to use manually or leave it automatic[/quote]
This is exactly what I did when we towed with a Subaru Outback. I put it in sport mode and made all the gear selections myself. It worked alright, but I still had to be really light on the gas to make sure the torque converter stayed locked.
Yup djsamuel there is no mistaking it. There is no benefit to having a tiny tow vehicle from a fuel savings standpoint. Proof positive yesterday. There needs to be a time of healing for the coffers. Then I will approach this from a towing specific standpoint. And thanks, I too am relieved that we can at least be able to change the scenery enough to enjoy our new purchase. The past several years have been like watching TV stuck on Nick At Night, unless we went backpacking hammocking or tenting along the way, which quickly becomes Man vs Wild enough time given.
This is our new mini basecamp for such trips.
Paul, there must be a better way to go! (as I bang my head on the dash)...lol Think of all those miles searching for a gas station. I recall a friend of my Dad rigging an aluminum keg to his old pickup truck when his gas tank rotted through. Let me tell ya' after yesterday the wheels are turning in my head. None of them are sound ideas of course. Or are they? Time for another Sanity Check post on that one...kidding of course.
I dunno, Paul. Sounds like you did the right thing to me. Do you think you could pack more fun into a 14 or 16 vs a 13? I doubt it. that family of yours wouldn't have any more fun at all. I am convinced of that. Would only offer the you need not fear the 16 within reasonable loads.
David, I'll give this a shot for sure. A 10% gain would be welcomed. I do have a lot to learn and like to experiment. I was considering bring my Suunto Ambit2 watch for data logging purposes. Track the terrain so I could understand a little better what we travelled. But truth be told I didn't want to have to jettison it from the vehicle as the old sinking sailors did with ballast. Alright, that was a stretch. I forgot it at home....
Pinstriper, those 69 cent 69oz fountain drinks at Irving are well spaced. About right for a pit stop every 140 miles or so. Fill er up in more ways than one! I bet they had this tow combo in mind....lol. I am seeking a scale in my area. The scrap yard I deal with won't do it. Every time they weigh it generates a ticket and each ticket is a $100 minimum dump fee. Still working on this. Any ideas?
Garbage transfer stations or landfills have scales as do some truck stops near interstates.
Something to keep in mind, a lot of the newer vehicles state in their owners manuals not to let your fuel level drop below a gallon or two remaining in the tank as it could destroy fuel system components.
Good to know about the tranny. I did feel it lugging a bit at times when I felt it should be revving faster but it still maintained speed so I didn't worry. I don't want to break anything. I'll start using Sport mode now. Have never even tried it before. Thought you needed to shift it manually. This is good news. Looks like we may try to get a night or two in it this weekend weather permitting. I'll be sure to run it like you guys say to.
[quote source="/post/7249/thread" timestamp="1424992500" author="@james"] Something to keep in mind, a lot of the newer vehicles state in their owners manuals not to let your fuel level drop below a gallon or two remaining in the tank as it could destroy fuel system components. [/quote]If that's the case, they should consider 1-2 gallons "empty" and advertise the tank capacity accordingly. Otherwise they'd just be asking for people to damage their fuel system.
[quote timestamp="1424994170" author="@whoofit" source="/post/7250/thread"]Good to know about the tranny. I did feel it lugging a bit at times when I felt it should be revving faster but it still maintained speed so I didn't worry. I don't want to break anything. I'll start using Sport mode now. Have never even tried it before. Thought you needed to shift it manually. This is good news. Looks like we may try to get a night or two in it this weekend weather permitting. I'll be sure to run it like you guys say to.[/quote]Sounds like you're doing fine. Another thing you might want to consider is getting a OBDII monitor to keep an eye on your transmission temps (if it has a sensor there). There are cheapo bluetooth adapters that you can monitor with a smartphone. The dedicated monitors are also relatively inexpensive.
Thanks Mitch I'm gonna check into those. The transfer station one is like what I bring my scrap to. They generate a cost per measure and would be happy to charge me $200. One for the truck and one for the trailer. Need to find a public scale I think. The dealer I bought the trailer from offered to weigh the tongue but we forgot to do it. When the snow started flying we were a bit hurried to get out of there.
[quote source="/post/7248/thread" timestamp="1424991150" author="@mitch"]Garbage transfer stations or landfills have scales as do some truck stops near interstates.[/quote]We used our local county landfill to weigh the CampLite/TV rig, TT axle, and TV with occupants to to find rig, tongue, TV, and camper weight. No charge and the folks running the scales wanted to learn more about CampLite TTs.
James, I wonder why? I mean I wonder if it has to do with air being drawn or head pressure maybe? I need to look into that. Thanks!
Tinker that would be ideal. I'll call ford and see if the sensor is there. This and the exhaust gas temp sensing David was speaking of would bring peace of mind especially in the warmer months and climates. Fitting the exhaust sensor could be a challenge though. It seems almost required to be safe with such a small TV.
It's too easy to think just because there is a warranty on the TV that it's no biggie. Until you break down.
[quote timestamp="1424996567" source="/post/7256/thread" author="@whoofit"]Tinker that would be ideal. I'll call ford and see if the sensor is there. This and the exhaust gas temp sensing David was speaking of would bring peace of mind especially in the warmer months and climates. Fitting the exhaust sensor could be a challenge though. It seems almost required to be safe with such a small TV.
It's too easy to think just because there is a warranty on the TV that it's no biggie. Until you break down.[/quote]When we towed with our Outback we actually added a auxiliary transmission cooler (like a tiny radiator) to help keep the tranny cool. You might need to do the same if you find that the temps are getting too high. We did it preemptively, so it may not have even been necessary, but I always say "better safe than sorry".
Murphy's law would make sure that it will be fine during the warranty period and break the week after it expires.
[quote source="/post/7247/thread" author="@whoofit" timestamp="1424989060"]Pinstriper, those 69 cent 69oz fountain drinks at Irving are well spaced. About right for a pit stop every 140 miles or so. Fill er up in more ways than one! I bet they had this tow combo in mind....lol. I am seeking a scale in my area. The scrap yard I deal with won't do it. Every time they weigh it generates a ticket and each ticket is a $100 minimum dump fee. Still working on this. Any ideas?
[/quote]Our state DOT, or someone like that, has scales scattered on the interstates and some state highways in the agriculture zones. When they aren't there, they leave the scale turned on. Free weigh.
[p]Whoofit,[/p][p]
[/p][p]With reference to my "one or two gallons in the tank" post, I should have included " Over an extended period of time, if you consistently run you fuel tank at very low levels you could experience premature fuel pump failure primarily due to excessive heat" My bad, I didn't mean to unnecessarily cause you any concern, as I should have elaborated more on the subject matter. Here are a few links that relate to the subject. [a href="http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/05/running-on-empty-low-gas-in-the-tank-can-be-costly/index.htm"]http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/05/running-on-empty-low-gas-in-the-tank-can-be-costly/index.htm[/a] [a href="http://www.boston.com/yourtown/somerville/articles/2011/03/27/letting_tank_get_low_risks_more_than_just_running_out_of_gas/"]http://www.boston.com/yourtown/somerville/articles/2011/03/27/letting_tank_get_low_risks_more_than_just_running_out_of_gas/[/a] [a href="http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/195"]http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/195[/a] [a href="http://carterfuelsystems.com/fuelpumps/consumers.php"]http://carterfuelsystems.com/fuelpumps/consumers.php[/a] [/p]
Tinker, the Escape does have a cooler OEM. Don't know how sufficient it is but it is there. I understand it is a challenge to mount an auxiliary one or a larger one on that TV. Front shrouds removed, intercooler and the like. I look under the hood and can hardly see an engine at all. This and also the computer system might not like it as it is balanced in some way with what was OEM. These trannys in the new stuff are pretty amazing things so I've read. They do a lot more than the shifting like the older ones do.
I'm sure they break just as easy or easier even. There is no magical physics, mechanical engineering or thermodynamics going on. Having said that I see no part number for a temp sensor for that tranny. An external may need to be retrofitted.
Pinstriper, up here I've seen them locked closed. Even some are not plowed out yet even. Still searching but not aggressively yet.
James, that makes perfect sense now. I would have never thought of it. Thank you for your research!
Here's a thread about Escape tranny temps.
http://www.fordescape.org/forum/engine-technical-discussion/28362-transmission-temperature.html
Quote from: @exploringcarolina" source="/post/7265/thread" timestamp="1425047674Here's a thread about Escape tranny temps.
http://www.fordescape.org/forum/engine-technical-discussion/28362-transmission-temperature.html
without causing too much thread drift (hopefully), I use a DashDaq engine monitor in my Tacoma, it's connected via the ODB port and allows me to create a gauge for any piece of information that is monitored by the truck. Since I tow I have gauges set up for trans oil temp and engine oil temp among others. It's very interesting to see the impact of towing and the impact of hills on the transmission.
[quote source="/post/7263/thread" timestamp="1425047029" author="@whoofit"]Pinstriper, up here I've seen them locked closed. Even some are not plowed out yet even. Still searching but not aggressively yet.[/quote][p]Hey, no problem. You're in New-by-gawd Hampshah or some such place, right ? Just take whatever state highway south to I-95 south, pick up I-80 west at NYC to Salt Lake City. Then I-84 west to Portland.
[/p]
Hey Mitch is there an exhaust gas temp sensor in that truck?
Pinstriper I wish I were in NH. I'm in Taxachusetts. Moab is on our shortlist. Probly need a bigger TV for that trip. I am an avid mountain bike fanatic and would love to run the Bronson Carbon C up there.
[quote timestamp="1425064086" author="@whoofit" source="/post/7271/thread"]Hey Mitch is there an exhaust gas temp sensor in that truck?
Pinstriper I wish I were in NH. I'm in Taxachusetts. Moab is on our shortlist. Probly need a bigger TV for that trip. I am an avid mountain bike fanatic and would love to run the Bronson Carbon C up there.[/quote]I don't think so but I'll check.
[quote timestamp="1425067333" source="/post/7275/thread" author="@mitch"][quote source="/post/7271/thread" author="@whoofit" timestamp="1425064086"]Hey Mitch is there an exhaust gas temp sensor in that truck?
Pinstriper I wish I were in NH. I'm in Taxachusetts. Moab is on our shortlist. Probly need a bigger TV for that trip. I am an avid mountain bike fanatic and would love to run the Bronson Carbon C up there.[/quote]I don't think so but I'll check.[/quote]Hmm. That would require some sort of exhaust gas temp sensor sensor. Wouldn't it ?
Quote from: @pinstriper" source="/post/7276/thread" timestamp="1425067527[quote timestamp="1425067333" source="/post/7275/thread" author="@mitch"]I don't think so but I'll check.
Hmm. That would require some sort of exhaust gas temp sensor sensor. Wouldn't it ?
[/quote][p]HA![/p][p]
[/p][p]Or at least an exhaust gas sensor detector. Operated by an exhaust gas temperature detective.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Seriously though seems a pretty useful data point for towing.[/p][p]
[/p][p]At any rate I don't see one listed for the Tacoma. Is there even a slot in the software package for one? And Pinstriper, don't get me started on this one....;p;
[/p]
No exhaust gas temp sensor that I could find but there was a catalyst temp sensor that, I believe, give the temp of the catalytic converter. Not exactly the same but it's close.
Thanks, Mitch. When I was a mechanic in the 80's I remember certain rich conditions that would make CC's glow cherry red in daily use. Maybe the newer tech has changed but I believe we would need to sample before the CC to be accurate. I could be wrong. I've been wrong once before you know.
In any case it is a data point that may be useful to us in some way.
Packing up to spend the night on the NH border. 6F outside so don't think I'll be overheating any time soon. I appreciate you checking this out!
[p]Just to round out this thread I finally weighed the trailer (2013 16DB) at a local CAT scale. I weighed it with our camping contents in it then weighed the camping contents separately using a precise Feedback Sports hook scale.
The certificate of origin said it weighed 2700lbs as shipped.
The CAT scale said it weighs 2720 + 280 tongue as loaded. For a total of 3000lbs.
The contents not supplied with the trailer (all but the hookup cord and the sprayer, propane tank and battery) weighed 241 lbs.
This means the trailer as supplied by the dealer weighs 2759 lbs as shipped. This with todays version of the XL package.
Wow, this was pretty close. only 59 lbs over. Escape has been doing good but I see and agree we need something more next time.[/p][p]
[/p][p]After getting all the weights, talking with Ford and getting more specs, it appears by using the online calculator that our max limit with 10% tongue weight and zero safety margin the top end of our Total Trailer Weight can be no more that 3326 lbs. This with keeping the TV weights in our normal cruise mode.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The real danger comes from the cargo carrying capacity of the TV. We are only 75 lbs short of the the max with a 330 lb tongue weight. Wife and I are going on a diet to increase this safety margin. We may jettison the dog too. She eats too much anyways and think of the 15lbs of dog food in the trailer!...lol.[/p]
Two thousand one hundred seventy seven towing miles and counting now. Have managed 3.5 hour hauls without a single issue. No overheating at ambient temps of 92F at speeds of 65mph. Able to use cruise control in sport mode. RPMs rarely exceeding 3500. No handling issues, braking issues or reliability issues. Averaging 12.5 mpg across our typical terrain.
This with actively staying below 3350lbs and never exceeding 350lbs TW. This little 4 banger has been a joy, really. If you happen to buy a certified used Ford Escape, be sure not to purchase ours when we trade it in next year. This one will look flawless but will be well spent...
besides weight you also have to consider wind/resistance. you will be pulling a less than aerodynamic tall aluminum box through the air. with a rather small tv, expect to feel it pulling you around if things get a little breezy
[quote timestamp="1435115764" source="/post/12624/thread" author="@thudd3r"]besides weight you also have to consider wind/resistance. you will be pulling a less than aerodynamic tall aluminum box through the air. with a rather small tv, expect to feel it pulling you around if things get a little breezy[/quote][p]Rather small TV is an understatement. There is no arguing that. For a while I was weighing this trailer every load out until I got the different loads down pat. We go for 2-3 nights most every weekend since February. Now I know what the different loads are, depending on what we are doing and where we are going, from experience and only weigh the tongue every trip.[/p][p]
[/p][p]We regularly exceed the Ford Towing Guides frontal area rating for this vehicle. Most anything but a pop-up trailer would do that. I pick and choose our routes real careful. Preferring secondary highways to interstates but so far no issues on either. Only on stiff blustery crosswinds have I felt any need to correct. The TV bucks the headwinds well enough so far but we are not high in the mountain passes or in the Midwest and will forfeit those places until we get a proper TV. We also will only stay fairly local, 250 miles or so, as we do not fully trust this combination.[/p][p]
[/p][p]And I hope that anyone who reads this post/thread will not mistake the Ford Escape Ti for a proper TV with the likes of the 16DB trailer because it's not. Our max loadout is at the [strong]Zero Safety Margin[/strong] limit for this combination. We fully expect the TV to be near toasted in two short years.
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