I wanted to get some opinions about which model would be the best to purchase. It's just my wife and I, no kids or pets. The Tow Vehicle is not an issue. The advantage of the 16DB is that it nice and compact. I would go with the sofa instead of the dinette, just in case we have another couple with us. On the other hand the 21 is only a few more feet but it does seem that the extra room would be nice to have. I just don't want to buy the smaller unit and then a year later wish that I bought the larger unit. That may be unavoidable. Does anyone have any thoughts???
I went through the same decision process about a year ago. I did have a TV constraint, a towing weight limit of 5,000 lbs and I wanted to stay well below that. The 16TBS with a sofa slide was our choice and it works well for us. You can also get it with a convertible king to twin bed arrangement.
Our style of camping is sitting around the campfire outdoors in the evening. If you camp in developed RV parks you might want the extra room of the 21 as you will probably spend more time inside. For us it isn't needed.
David
[quote timestamp="1422611290" source="/post/6286/thread" author="@imageben"]I wanted to get some opinions about which model would be the best to purchase. It's just my wife and I, no kids or pets. The Tow Vehicle is not an issue. The advantage of the 16DB is that it nice and compact. I would go with the sofa instead of the dinette, just in case we have another couple with us. On the other hand the 21 is only a few more feet but it does seem that the extra room would be nice to have. I just don't want to buy the smaller unit and then a year later wish that I bought the larger unit. That may be unavoidable. Does anyone have any thoughts???[/quote][font size="3"]To set the stage: We are a retired couple on our second trailer after reentering the camping scene. Kids are gone, no more drive to work, now we can travel, etc. Our first camper was a 18 foot Forest River RPOD with bunk beds. We went with the bunk bed option because we didn't want to climb over each other getting in and out of bed. We were somewhat limited by our TV so weight, size, and cost were considerations. Since we were just graduating back to an RV from the Hampton Inn routine we wanted to start small. We loved the RPOD, but after a year, there were some limitations.
The bunks were a pain, the fridge was too small, and the tiny wet bath was a major drawback. Time to move up a bit. The 16 foot CLs solve the bath problem and the 16TBS would have solved the bed problem, but it was not available when we were looking. The fridge in the 16s was slightly bigger, but still small.
Enter our present 21RBS. The walk around queen allows access from either side and is much easier to make up. The larger seven cu. ft. fridge with separate freezer is great and not having to choose between bed and dinette table works great for when one of us gets up early or turns in early. The bath is dry and significantly larger than in the 16s. The extra room provided by the slide allows a larger table which then converts to another bed if required. These are the features you'll appreciate on longer trips or rainy days and the added 4.5 foot length is hardly noticeable. 'Nuff said. I recommend the 21RBS.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't even consider the 16TBS as an option. Do you keep the king bed set up all the time? Do you lose much space over the 16DB or is it about the same. Thank you so much for everyones replys.
We have the twin bed 16TBS which is always set up as a bed. If you look at the floor plan for the 16TBS on LL's site you will see a little note that says that the twin bed is easily converted to a king. They give you a filler piece that fills the gap between the twins to make it a king.
We haven't done that and don't have the filler, but if we did we would keep it set up all of the time. It is out of the way and isn't like a dinette that you need to use during the day.
The one downside to the 16TBS vs the 16DBS is that the slide out is narrower on the 16TBS to make room for the length of the twins or king, so in our case the slide out sofa is shorter.
David
David
We have the twin bed 16TBS which is always set up as a bed. If you look at the floor plan for the 16TBS on LL's site you will see a little note that says that the twin bed is easily converted to a king. They give you a filler piece that fills the gap between the twins to make it a king.
We haven't done that and don't have the filler, but if we did we would keep it set up all of the time. It is out of the way and isn't like a dinette that you need to use during the day.
The one downside to the 16TBS vs the 16DBS is that the slide out is narrower on the 16TBS to make room for the length of the twins or king, so in our case the slide out sofa is shorter. So it is really a one person sofa or at best a love seat ;-).
David
Thanks for the info on the 21RBS. I have the feeling that we would be happy with that model. I also think that even if we start with the 16 at some point we will end up with the 21. I might be crazy for thinking that I wanted to start with the same model that I wanted end up with. I'm thinking I a used Mercedes GL450 for the tow vehicle. I'm a little concerned about towing anything. I've done it before so I know that I can. I wonder would 4 or 5 feet really make that much of a difference. A month or two after towing the trailer I'm sure that I will be very comfortable.
David, thanks for the reply. So the sofa is small. If it were at least the size of a loveseat that would be ok. I like the idea of keeping the Kingsized bed set up that way all the time. If we had another set of close friends or family that came with us the smaller couple might be able to sleep on the sofabed.
I concur about the RPOD bathrooms. It is what drove us away from that choice. Plus the dual axles of the CL's.
I strongly urge whatever you do, get the slideout. It is a dramatic difference in floorspace and open feel.
The mini-dinette in the 14 and 16 slideouts is like sitting at Taco Bell. It's couples-only, no guests. Also, when converted to a bed, it is for the under-10 crowd. So, really, a 14 or 16 is for a couple with no kids. Which is perfect for us.
The difference between the 14 and the 16's is that there is a 16TBS. So if you have any disagreements about who gets stuck inboard or outboard, the twins resolve that. That's what you get for the extra 10". That floorplan wasn't available when we bought. It was between the 14DBS and 16DBS, which didn't change the bed or the size of the slideout, so we went with the 14DBS. Today, 16TBS, no doubt. But the dinette being the same...it is still just for a couple, unless the child is young, and the child will mean you outgrow the trailer.
So if you have adolescents or teens, you gotta go 21.
That said, be aware that 4' of additional length may make the difference between fitting the campsite and not, at older campgrounds. And of course towing and moving a longer and heavier trailer. But there, really, you should be comparing what its like to do that with a 21 Camplite versus other brands made of steel and wood.
[quote timestamp="1422632458" source="/post/6297/thread" author="@imageben"]Thanks for the info on the 21RBS. I have the feeling that we would be happy with that model. I also think that even if we start with the 16 at some point we will end up with the 21. [font color="e61959"][font size="3"]Yes, you would.[/font][/font]
I might be crazy for thinking that I wanted to start with the same model that I wanted end up with. [font color="e61959"][font size="3"]It's good to start small if you're not sure, but that's why folks upgrade. We did.[/font][/font]
I'm thinking I a used Mercedes GL450 for the tow vehicle. I'm a little concerned about towing anything. I've done it before so I know that I can. I wonder would 4 or 5 feet really make that much of a difference. A month or two after towing the trailer I'm sure that I will be very comfortable. [font color="e61959" size="3"]MB looks adequate with the small V8. [font color="e61959"]I [font color="e61959"]tow the 21 with a 4.0L V6, but added a supercharger because a V8 was not available in the mid sized truck. So far it's very adequate. [/font][/font] [/font][font color="e61959"]
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I'm also trying to decide between the 16TBS and the 21 RBS. I kind of liked the twin bed setup and the shorter length of the 16 but like everyone else I wondered if I would end up wishing I had the extra room at some point. I called Camplite to discuss it and they said it wouldn't be a problem to put the twin bed/ king bed unit in the 21' trailer and that sounds like a great solution to me. You would gain extra storage; the 16TBS only has storage under one bed since the water heater is under the other but on the 21' you would have two large storage bins. And the idea of a 7' wide bed vs a 5' wide bed sounds like a winner to me! The big problem might be finding sheets to fit and trying to keep them on the mattress.
You would lose the two outlets from the "night stands" but they said the outlets could be move where ever you wanted them, except they can't put them on an exterior wall.
We're quite new to this.
The advice when we started looking about a year ago was to find the size that we thought would be quite comfortable, then go with the next size up.
That put us in a 21BHS.
Remember that CampLite measures the actual length of the body, not the entire trailer. That makes a 21' CampLite roughly equivalent to a 23' or 24' other brand.
We got the BHS because Karen has hopes and dreams of camping with her two kids and their kids. Hence the desire to sleep 6.
If it had been up to me, the RBS would probably have been the choice, but the differences are kinda minor. And gotta keep the little lady happy!
Good discussion, but one-sided. When we were deciding between the 14DBS, 16TBS and 21RBS, it came down to balancing living with the trailer when camped and living with the trailer when towing. We ended up with the 16TBS, which provides enough room for the 2 of us and the dogs and a enough maneuverability for good towing. Every single time I've backed the trailer into our driveway or into a campsite, I've been very happy to have the 16TBS and not the 21RBS. And every time we think of something else to take along we've been very happy to have the 16 TBS and not the 14DBS. And, I really like the bed set up in the TBS. So, consider your primary intended use. If you plan to tow long distances with short stays in campgrounds, it may mean a different setup than if you plan to "sit-stay" with little towing.
This has been a great discussion so far. I think that I also would love the 16 foot trailer at the campsite, but maybe wish I had something smaller when we just wanted to take a quick getaway for a couple of days. I'm sure that with practice and preparation I could be just as ready with one or the other. Trying to decide between 4.5 feet??
When I finally get to try them both it may be even more clear in person. At the factory they should have every model right?
If it had been solely my decision, I would have been very happy with the 16. My wife also liked the 16 but didn't want to chance any possible regrets - and considering our TV, it wasn't much of a stretch to move up to the 21. Brought it home today!
[quote source="/post/6308/thread" timestamp="1422663253" author="@sandroad"]Good discussion, but one-sided. When we were deciding between the 14DBS, 16TBS and 21RBS, it came down to balancing living with the trailer when camped and living with the trailer when towing. We ended up with the 16TBS, which provides enough room for the 2 of us and the dogs and a enough maneuverability for good towing. Every single time I've backed the trailer into our driveway or into a campsite, I've been very happy to have the 16TBS and not the 21RBS. And every time we think of something else to take along we've been very happy to have the 16 TBS and not the 14DBS. And, I really like the bed set up in the TBS. So, consider your primary intended use. If you plan to tow long distances with short stays in campgrounds, it may mean a different setup than if you plan to "sit-stay" with little towing. [/quote][p]Meh, the difference between the 14DBS and the 16DBS was sooooooo minimal, we were happy enough with the 14DBS. We have been rained into the inside for an entire weekend, and the two of us, with 2 50# dogs...was perfect. We LIKE to stay in bed with a book and cuddle with the sleeping dogs.[/p][p]
[/p][p]As I said, a small child would be manageable in the 14DBS. It would be equally manageable with the 16DBS. No difference or advantage.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The 16 that has an advantage is the 16TBS. So, yeah. If you go with a DBS, go with the 14. Otherwise, take the 16TBS.[/p][p]
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[quote source="/post/6312/thread" timestamp="1422670981" author="@surfsup"]If it had been solely my decision, I would have been very happy with the 16. My wife also liked the 16 but didn't want to chance any possible regrets - and considering our TV, it wasn't much of a stretch to move up to the 21. Brought it home today![/quote]Congrats !
[quote source="/post/6310/thread" timestamp="1422668707" author="@imageben"]This has been a great discussion so far. I think that I also would love the 16 foot trailer at the campsite, but maybe wish I had something smaller when we just wanted to take a quick getaway for a couple of days. I'm sure that with practice and preparation I could be just as ready with one or the other. Trying to decide between 4.5 feet??
When I finally get to try them both it may be even more clear in person. At the factory they should have every model right? [/quote]FYI, the factory does not have them all available to look at in a finished state. They are not a direct-sale dealer/factory and don't keep any "stock". When we visited, they had a couple of sold, finished trailers awaiting transport that we could go in (our first time in a 16TBS), but that's all they had. Everything else was in progress and impossible to get a feel for what they would look like finished. If it matters to you whether you make the trip to the factory, call ahead to see if they one or more you might be able to get into.
Thanks for the heads up about the factory. There is a dealer in VA that has the 16DBS and the 21RBS. I'll head there first.
We have the 2014 16TBS and love it. We don't have the option of having the king bed in ours and are glad. In my opinion, it would be a bit of an overkill for the size of the trailer. Also, most people upgrade to another mattress from the original mattresses that come with the units.We love our 16TBS and thought that for more room we may add an add a room onto the awning to give us more room as we are thinking of work-camping in the next year or two. We have the sofa bed in our slide. That being said, my first option would have been the 21RBS if we had a TV to handle it. The bigger frig,separate freezer, pantry, and bigger bathroom with a sink and cabinets sold me. As stated above, you can get the king bed or twins in the 21 foot which would give you an awesome amount of extra space.
I see that you are in Virginia. I don't know how far you are from D&H RV in North Carolina, but look them up on the web. They are very informative as they carry quite a few LivinLites and are quite pleasant to talk to and can give you a few tips.
Having just moved up from a tent, our 21RBS feels luxuriously big to me, even though we are usually the smallest RV in the campground. For short trips, I think we would have been fine in a 16 footer, but for longer trips, especially if weather prevents expanding our living space to the outside, it would be cramped. I love the bed, the larger fridge, and the extra storage in the bathroom is handy. We just returned from our third trip, and we couldn't be happier.
Thanks. I will check out the dealer in Apex as well. I'm near Winston Salem, but I do travel to the Raleigh area regularly.
Quote from: @david" source="/post/6295/thread" timestamp="1422632101
The one downside to the 16TBS vs the 16DBS is that the slide out is narrower on the 16TBS to make room for the length of the twins or king, so in our case the slide out sofa is shorter.
David
[font size="3"]David,
Are you sure the slide in the TBS is shorter? Scaling the LL web site drawings they look the same. I looks like the TBS beds fill the space up to the slide and maybe even the slide is slightly further aft. The beds are only 76" long. Maybe the web site drawings are not accurate.
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Charlie:
You may be right. When we were shopping, we compared a 21RBS with a 16TBS. The 16TBS definitely had a shorter sofa and I assumed that was because of the longer fore and aft beds in the 16TBS. Since I haven't looked at a 16DBS in person, maybe they are the same.
David
[font size="3"]Yes. It looks like the slide in the 21 is slightly longer. Thanks.
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[quote source="/post/6310/thread" timestamp="1422668707" author="@imageben"]This has been a great discussion so far. I think that I also would love the 16 foot trailer at the campsite, but maybe wish I had something smaller when we just wanted to take a quick getaway for a couple of days. I'm sure that with practice and preparation I could be just as ready with one or the other. Trying to decide between 4.5 feet??
When I finally get to try them both it may be even more clear in person. At the factory they should have every model right? [/quote]Not sure if this will help or not...
I've been camping pretty regularly for 50 years now, having started in tents and tent campers when I was in grade school, moving to backpack/canoeing/tenting as a teen, and only the last 3 years in a hard-side trailer. For me, this decision would be influenced by how you view a camping trip and the camping experience.
In my case, camping has always been an outdoor experience, with the tent only used as a place to sleep. Weather didn't change that. On a rainy day, we kids wore rain gear and spend the day outside playing in the rain. Rest assured that in the days before 'leave no trace', us kids would have build runoff channels, dikes, dams and holding ponds the first hour of the rainstorm. My wife, having never camped prior to meeting me, doesn't see sitting around a campfire on a cold, wet drizzly day as a memory to be cherished. She'd rather spent that day curled up on the dinette bench with a blanket and a book. I'd rather cook outside on a gasoline stove, she'd rather cook in the trailer, and so on.
My advice then, is that the more likely to are to tuck up inside when the weather is bad, and the more likely you are to spend the evening in the trailer instead of by the fire, and the more likely you are to use the galley instead of the picnic table, the more you should favor the larger trailer.
Michael:
You are absolutely right. We use our camper only to cook meals and sleep. All other time is outdoors. Being outdoors is why we camp. Also being retired we can pick our midweek days to mostly avoid rain. That is why the smaller 16TBS works for us.
David
Quote from: @david" source="/post/6366/thread" timestamp="1422794552Charlie:
You may be right. When we were shopping, we compared a 21RBS with a 16TBS. The 16TBS definitely had a shorter sofa and I assumed that was because of the longer fore and aft beds in the 16TBS. Since I haven't looked at a 16DBS in person, maybe they are the same.
David
The slide in the 16TBS is the same width as the slide in the 14DBS. It is less wide than the slide in the 16DBS and the 21RBS, which both have the same slide.
[quote source="/post/9386/thread" timestamp="1429127833" author="Jad"][div][/div][div][/div][div][/div]We are loooking for a tow behind camper and are considering Camplite. We have camped for years in a Class A but now have decised to scale down. We like the twin bed idea in the 16' for better sleeping arrangement in a small space. We are also considering the 21' unit and have a question about the sofa and the slide out. Does anyone know the exact length of the sleeper sofa? I would like something that I could sleep on from time to time being 5'11". The factory rep said twins could be put in the 21' but I am sure that could be a timely and costly upgrade. Thanks for your help. John[/quote][font size="3"]Hi Jad,
We own a 21RBS. We have the dinette option on the slide. When made into a bed the clear length of the bed is 73". My son is slightly taller than 6 ft. and sleeps there easily. I would guess the sofa would be similar, but one of our members will jump in with the exact sofa dimensions.
The change to twin beds is easy. I think someone on this forum has actually had this done. If I recall they also had the overhead cabinets rearranged like the 16DBS for additional storage. It should not be expensive. There is no structure involved and Livinlite is extremely receptive to these types of mods. The twin beds would also offer a sitting area for daytime use. The extra room including the bath and the larger dinette made the 21 an easy choice for us. I would also warn that there have been some issues with the sofas in the 16s. Scan this form for details.
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My husband and I spent more than a year making our decision to have a 21-BHS customized for us. We looked at models from several different manufacturers and then talked about how we will use the camper. Then we would go to another RV show and talk some more.
Livin Lite was very accommodating to us when we presented a lengthy list of changes to the 21-BHS. One item that we are very happy with, is that we switched out the bed in the front for the U-dinette that can convert to a queen-size bed. We do not mind taking the bed apart so we can have the table set up. Putting the table outside gives us a large, comfortable u-shaped sofa where several people can visit.
Bottom line is consideration for how you will use your camper. I thought it was fun to go through the planning ptocess.
I can confirm the 73 inches that CharlieM mentioned. I have the 21RBS with couch and it is 73". We are going on a weekend trip and I just happened to have it in my driveway tonight.
Jad, my wife and I went back and forth between the 16 and 21 a few months back and are so glad we bought the 21. More space is really nice, along with the full bath with sink. I have been towing with a Tacoma and am well pleased. I hope this helps.
We've had our 21RBS for close to a year now and enjoy it very much. Having the vanity and dry shower is a big advantage over the 16' model. Our travels range from a few days at the lake, to a week or more at a music festival, to a multi state road trip spread over several weeks. Just livin' the dream.
Hey go with your gut and what you can afford or all that you think you will need. When we purchased a new pickup to tow our TT the dealer owner told us he had an RV. His advice was for us to stay out of other people's trailers, RV etc as this always costs him money when his wife saw something better or something they did not have. This is so very true! You can always trade up if you decide you need more room and use it enough to warrant the expense. We have only had our unit a few weeks and one thing I noticed when camping is there is just about every size of camper from tents to giant RV's at the campsite! Stay in your comfort zone!
These trailers are stupid simple to mod. I know first hand cuz I'm both stupid and simple.
Don't like the Queen? Build twins. Don't like the sofa? Build a dinette. Don't have a sink? Add one. Relocate the Tele to the bedroom? Add organization? These trailers are like a blank canvas ready for your interpretation of superior.
We are much more than satisfied with our 16DB now. It shall forever be a work in progress.... We will never sell it, nor will it ever deteriorate, so it matters not what others like. What do YOU like is the point.
We would have gone with a 21' Camplite the first time around had it been available then but it wasn't. In 2012 the 16DB was the largest LL made. Anyway, my husband and I camp with our 10-year-old granddaughter. We were compelled to upgrade from a 16DB to the 21BHS for 2 reasons: 1) him having to crawl over me (or vice versa) to get out of bed, and 2) having to move my granddaughter from the sofa to our bed in the morning just to have space to make coffee. Although it wasn't a primary reason for upgrading, our dogs had to sleep in the truck at night because there isn't enough floor space for them in the 16DB if you have any expectation of getting to the bathroom at night.
When we finally pick up our new trailer next month, our granddaughter (and possibly our dogs) will have dedicated bunk beds, we will be able to exit the bed from either side and there will be plenty of room to make, sit and drink coffee in the morning.
Good luck to you!
We have a 2014 16TBS with the sofabed. We love our set up in our unit, but if I were to do it all over again, I would go with the 21RBS with the twin beds. The 21RBS has the bigger bathroom with a sink and storage in the bathroom which the 16TBS does not. The 21RBS also has the pantry, which I would die for! If ordering a unit, LivinLite will work with you on how you want the unit set up. We had our daughter and granddaughter overnite with us two weeks ago sleeping on the sofabed. It was a very very tight situation. Basically, the 16TBS is just for two people. If you had the dinette in a 21RBS, you could make that into a bed for extra guests and still have room to get around for the use of the bathroom at night. I really don't think that the few extra feet is going to make that much of a difference in towing and backing. You would get used to it. For the sheets fitting the beds...we got ours from Mattress Insiders when we ordered memory foam mattresses to replace the very thin and uncomfortable mattresses that cam with the unit. They specialize in RV mattresses and bedding and can customize to fit.