Hello, we are new owners of a 2012 13RDB (no tip-out) and I'm trying to figure out how to access the water pump and water heater so that we can winterize. I can't find anything in the owner's manual and I've looked high and low in the trailer and can't figure it out. The water pump is under one dinette seat and the water heater is under our jackknife sofa.
Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!
Mojo's Mom.
So you are saying your dinette seat doesn't raise? Is there not an access panel to get to the rear of the water heater? Can you post pictures of both the jackknife couch area and the dinette seat....maybe something will become apparent to others.
Right, the dinette seat over the inverter, furnace and presumably the water pump, doesn't raise It appears that a single large phillips head screw is holding it shut and that sucker will not budge! My husband couldn't get it to budge either. Seems to have been locktite'd with the good stuff or something.
As far as the water heater under the sofa - it is incredibly difficult to get to the panel under there so I wasn't sure if that was the right spot to go at it. Going to have to be a contortionist to get in there!
At least now I know what type of bit all these screws take. Never heard of a double square before now.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll grab some pictures tomorrow to post.
My 2011 13rdb has the seat that raises up to access the water pump. That compartment also houses the furnace and power center. I recently removed the water line from the tank and put a siphon hose on the pump and ran it into a gallon jug of rv antifreeze, ran the pump and filled all the lines--it took a little over 1 1/2 gallons. (NOTE: FIRST, be sure to bypass water heater using valves under the camper) For the water heater, use the outside access panel, pull the relief valve and then remove the anode tube--if you have a propane heater. If it's electric, I don't know anything about it. Why would Livin'Lite change things that work??
Here are some pictures of my water heater set up. I did figure out how to get to the back of the hot water heater. I'm wondering though if removing the long front panel will it give the best access instead of the interior panel I removed for the pictures. Thoughts? I don't see any bypass system installed. And a dumb question - could the bypass be installed under the camper instead of inside? Much easier to get to.
I will make another post for the water pump access since I can't add another picture.
Here is the picture of the dinette seat lid with the wonky phillips head screw. I'm wondering if that was done as an after thought by someone for some reason. It seems very out of place.
Edit: I used a vise grip to remove the stupid screw and got access to the water pump. I was expecting a hose not pipe though.
As you said, no hot water tank bypass. I don't believe they would have put it underneath either so it looks like you'll need to add one if you want one. On my 2103 13 QBB with Dinette I have a similar weird access to the pump. There are two screws that were drilled through the dinette seat aluminum frame and into the frame underneath. Those screws were so badly installed that they may as well have been posts attached to the seat that dropped into a hole. In fact at this point the screws do not provide any bite at all and I use them merely to keep the seat from sliding off the frame. It's not a problem as all of the force on the seat is downwards anyway. As far as winterizing, if you loosen the band clamp that holds the hose to the water pump strainer you'll be able to unscrew the strainer assembly from the pump. Then you can do as Hank mentioned above and connect a hose to the pump to pull anti-freeze into your water system. You'd want to isolate the water heater first though (either a permanent bypass or a temporary one). I don't recommend filling the entire water heater with anti-freeze.
Mitch
Mojo I'm glad you figured out access to both. I personally would put the bypass for the HWH under the trailer as you suggested. I see no reason why that wouldn't work and it would keep you from having to mess with the sofa. I'd just make it up myself with 3 valves and Ts from Home depot or lowes. yYu could add low point drains as well if you were worried about any water in the lines from the tank since your bypass loop would be longer than normal.
As far as your water pump it looks pretty cramped in there on the filter side. I'd try to work one of these in with some extra hose if need be:
http://www.amazon.com/Camco-36543-Pump-Converter-Winterizing/dp/B0006JJ588/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1414547687&sr=1-1&keywords=rv+winterizing+kit
The good news is you only have to access these once spring and fall. Let us know what you decide.
I would think adding another one or two breeches in the hull for rodents to exploit would be reason enough to not try putting the bypass under the trailer. That, and it means you have to spend a good deal of time on a crawler putting it in and of course operating the valve during winterization and....ehm,.....unwinterization, or whatever it's called. "springization" doesn't sound quite right. "summarization" isn't much better.
I'll go with "summarize". The point stands, though.
[quote source="/post/4534/thread" timestamp="1414548381" author="@pinstriper"]
I would think adding another one or two breeches in the hull for rodents to exploit would be reason enough to not try putting the bypass under the trailer. That, and it means you have to spend a good deal of time on a crawler putting it in and of course operating the valve during winterization and....ehm,.....unwinterization, or whatever it's called. "springization" doesn't sound quite right. "summarization" isn't much better.
I'll go with "summarize". The point stands, though.
[/quote]
Why would he have to breech the bottom? The hot and cold lines are right next to each other in the one picture leading from the HWH. All he has to do is bypass right there nearest where the hoses lead back inside the trailer but still external to the trailer.
tbones is right. No need for another breech in the bottom. First put a valve on each line going into and out of water heater (under trailer), then before those valves, put a T in each line and connect them together with a 3rd valve in the middle==Viola- a bypass and heater isolation. Turn off each heater valve and open the bypass valve, pump in antifreeze from water pump. Reverse all three valve settings when summerizing. Also, when removing hose from water pump be sure that it's the hose from the tank, attach siphon hose onto pump here and pump in antifreeze until good pink flow at each faucet-let some run down the drain to protect trap. I plan to get the a fore mentioned bypass kit or make on myself so that removing the tank inlet hose each to add antifreeze is easier.
It might be a good idea to put low point drain valves on the WH side of the bypass loop since some residual water would likely sit in the lines because they run downhill/vertical from the water heater. In a normal bypass situation where you have better access to the back side of the WH a very minimal amount sits in the lines because they are much shorter and sit horizontal. If it was my trailer I would bypass underneath, but YMMV.
Thanks everyone for the great thought provoking advice. Seriously considering under the trailer but cutting and clamping lines makes me nervous whereas the convenience of the kit that just screws in is tempting even with the contortions. Of course I plan to draft my DH into helping which means he will have a big say in however we decide to proceed.
Thoughts - was thinking the same about drain valve placement - on the WH side just before the bypass valves.
Can you think of any major disadvantages to placing the valves under the trailer? Exposure is the main thing that comes to mind. Road grime and debris could muck the whole thing up rather easily I would think. And it would stink to have to re-do it after a season.
[quote source="/post/4553/thread" timestamp="1414584699" author="@tlbones"][quote source="/post/4534/thread" timestamp="1414548381" author="@pinstriper"]I would think adding another one or two breeches in the hull for rodents to exploit would be reason enough to not try putting the bypass under the trailer. That, and it means you have to spend a good deal of time on a crawler putting it in and of course operating the valve during winterization and....ehm,.....unwinterization, or whatever it's called. "springization" doesn't sound quite right. "summarization" isn't much better.
I'll go with "summarize". The point stands, though.
[/quote]Why would he have to breech the bottom? The hot and cold lines are right next to each other in the one picture leading from the HWH. All he has to do is bypass right there nearest where the hoses lead back inside the trailer but still external to the trailer.[/quote][p]This is where my assertion falls to the ground.[/p][p]
[/p][p]However, it still means getting under the rig on your back and looking UP while you open a drain.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I have a crawler for stuff like this and I use it only under duress.
[/p]
[quote source="/post/4587/thread" timestamp="1414632335" author="@mojospeople"]
Thoughts - was thinking the same about drain valve placement - on the WH side just before the bypass valves.
Can you think of any major disadvantages to placing the valves under the trailer? Exposure is the main thing that comes to mind. Road grime and debris could muck the whole thing up rather easily I would think. And it would stink to have to re-do it after a season.
[/quote]Bottom line you have to choose the lesser of 2 evils. the under option getting dirty: There may be some grime (as in you'll get some dirt on your hands), but I'd be shocked if you got enough to cause any issues unless you drove through some serious muddy offroad trails.
My trailer is a 2011. I bought it used last year. It came with the propane hot water heater bypass under the trailer at the heater--these are metal ball type valves. I also have a low point drains-both hot and cold--under the outdoor shower connections. They are just about 2"long hoses, then the plastic valves. I'm assuming that these valves have all been under there for a few years and my trailer was well traveled when we got it. There are no obvious problems with the condition of the valves from road wear/grime, etc.
My 2011 13QBB and the op's 2012 has no bipass at the water heater. When did LL start putting them in? Haven't other manufacturers been doing this for years?
My 13 QBB which was built in the Feb/Mar time frame of 2013 came with one. I assume it was standard because I didn't ask for it.
Quote from: @mojospeople" timestamp="1414383637" source="/post/4446/threadHello, we are new owners of a 2012 13RDB (no tip-out) and I'm trying to figure out how to access the water pump and water heater so that we can winterize. I can't find anything in the owner's manual and I've looked high and low in the trailer and can't figure it out. The water pump is under one dinette seat and the water heater is under our jackknife sofa.
Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!
Mojo's Mom.
I have. 2013 used 13qbb. I had a similar problem. I solved it by negotiating the sale to include winterizing the camper while I watched. Alternatively I recommend emailing Camplite. The lack of a hot water bypass seems really odd. I have found them very helpful.
Regarding the the screw heads: Dewalt sells a nice little box that includes several square bits and a quick change holder.
I had had to replace my water pump, which was under the jack knife sofa. Camplite provided advice. I had to take the sofa off, and there were a lot of screws in hard to reach places. I recommend an offset drill attachment made by Milwaukee. Works on a drill or by hand. There was an access panel next to the electrical box, but the pump was to the right of it so I had to take the sofa off. When I replaced the pump I moved it to the front of the door. I will add an antifreeze bypass (Campco) later. Camplite is getting better at putting things where they can be reached, but they are not quite there yet.
This year I have decided to take a different approach. I bought a small compressor and blew the lines out. I did put antifreeze in the traps. It should work. We will see. (You will still need the bypass and you will need to remove the heater plug.
Regarding all the steps involved: There are a lot of very complete list and videos.
I hope this is of some help.