[font size="3"]I'm seeing this coupler deformation on a 21RBS. Apparently the tongue weight of 2 gas bottles and 2 batteries plus the action of the WDH and the dynamic loading of travel and roadway dips is too much for the coupler as installed.
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This is the second time I've dealt with this problem. The first time I assumed the WDH was over compensating and putting too much torque on the ball/coupler. I ordered a new coupler from LL and it arrived with no bolt holes drilled. Apparently the coupler is designed only to be welded to a steel frame, not bolted as from LL. I drilled the new holes, reinstalled with the original bolts, and lightened the WDH load to a minimum for the required effect. Same problem returned after a few trips.
I'm thinking the fix might be to straighten the coupler and add a bolt to each side, drilling through the steel coupler and through the outer wall of each side A frame member in the approximate area indicated by the red circle. The inner walls of each frame member are inaccessible due to welded plates. Short 1/2" SS hex bolts with flat washers and locking nuts might work. Maybe two 3/8" bolts stacked vertically on each side?
[attachment id="903" thumbnail="1"]
The bolts and aluminum frame walls would be in almost perfect shear load and close to the vertical center of the frame members, and there is not much bending stress on the frame at this point, so degradation of frame strength should not be an issue. I also don't think not being able to go completely through the frame member is a problem, again due to the primary shear load. Other solutions might be pieces of thick steel flat stock spanning the two bolts on each side and extending forward of the front bolt: in effect a much larger washer. Don't like this one as much.
Techie, Dave, Doug, LL, others: Jump in here with you comments and ideas. I don't think this is a potential failure mechanism, but it does put unusual wear on the ball/coupler combo and just looks wrong. What say? [/font]
A couple of things come to mind. Is it possible to get a heavier duty coupler to bolt on there? On my 16TBS, the coupler covers the entire frame of the trailer top to bottom. Perhaps the 21 foot trailer has a deeper frame, but in any event, that coupler looks pretty small and I wonder if it's too light for the stresses? I like the single 1/2 inch SS bolt in the side as the best solution for the coupler you have. And use a heavy grade bolt. You might consider replacing the existing bolts too, give the deformation there's been a lot of stress on them too.
[p]As you point out, that coupler was never designed to be used that way. Simply bolting through the top, puts all the stress where the bend is, duh!
Put two bolts in horizontally on each side, one where your circle is and another about three inches back where the angle is. That will essentially do what welding does on a steel frame and distribute the stress down to the frame.
LL makes some compromises to use steel components with their aluminum frame, and this is one that they blew. I will have to look at my 16TBS to see if the coupler is similar and maybe do the same. It hasn't bent.....yet.[/p][p]
[/p][p]And don't straighten it. Get LL to send you one more new one. It is their problem.
David[/p]
[quote timestamp="1414178369" author="@sandroad" source="/post/4400/thread"]On my 16TBS, the coupler covers the entire frame of the trailer top to bottom. Perhaps the 21 foot trailer has a deeper frame, but in any event, that coupler looks pretty small and I wonder if it's too light for the stresses?
[/quote][font size="3"]Merlin,
That's an interesting observation. My frame is 4" top to bottom and the coupler is only 3" What are yours and what year is your 16?
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Wow, all I can say is "scary". My engineering background makes me think bad application, of course hind sight is always perfect. You could try a heavier duty coupler, maybe move up to a 2 5/16 ball? The other fix that comes to mind, as Merlin suggested, is purchase or design an encapsulated hitch. Regardless of what you decide, I personally would not replace it with the same brand. I've got the 21RBS and I'm going to be watching mine like a hawk. [a href="http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD43805W0317.html"]http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD43805W0317.html[/a]
I am going to keep an eye on my coupler after reading this post. I have a 21-BHS, and I have 2 gas containers and 2 6 - volt AGM batteries, which weigh even more than lead acid batteries. In any event, the coupler supplied with our trailers should be up to the task, given how much tongue weight is needed if we were to load these things to the max of 5,000 lbs. A minimum of 600 lbs if loaded to the max.
The frame on the 16TBS is 3 inches deep, so it must be the same 3 inch coupler is used on the 16 and the 21. It looks like LL should be using a heavier coupler on the heavier trailer?
Charliem, is yours a 2015 Camplite? I noticed that LL raised the tongue weight from what was listed for the 2014 year. There is an explanation there about the design, axle location and loading that wasn't on LL website for the 2014 models.
Merlin, GVWR for 16 foot models and 21 foot models is the same - 5,000 lbs.
[quote source="/post/4398/thread" timestamp="1414177175" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]
I'm thinking the fix might be to straighten the coupler and add a bolt to each side, drilling through the steel coupler and through the outer wall of each side A frame member in the approximate area indicated by the red circle. The inner walls of each frame member are inaccessible due to welded plates. Short 1/2" SS hex bolts with flat washers and locking nuts might work. Maybe two 3/8" bolts stacked vertically on each side?
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[/quote]One of the first things I noticed about the coupler on my 2013 16db was the "made in china" stamp. I'm not sure if that is the industry standard these days, but when it comes to automotive anything I don't trust "made in china" anything...don't get me started on chinese tires. I think the simplist solution is upgrade to a "made in USA" coupler with a higher wieght rating and/or your side bolt idea. In lou of drilling into the aluminum I wonder if you can get a local fab shop box out the coupler so it surrounds the A frame, then bolt from the top, sides and/or bottom.
[quote timestamp="1414182343" author="@leslie" source="/post/4406/thread"]Charliem, is yours a 2015 Camplite? I noticed that LL raised the tongue weight from what was listed for the 2014 year. There is an explanation there about the design, axle location and loading that wasn't on LL website for the 2014 models.[/quote][font size="3"]Thanks for the tip on the LL website. I never did believe the 250# number and I don't think anyone else did either. I think LL is just catching their publication up to reality. My 2014 model's TW is 525# fully loaded including 2 bikes on the rear and empty tanks. [/font]
[quote source="/post/4411/thread" timestamp="1414198462" author="@tlbones"]One of the first things I noticed about the coupler on my 2013 16db was the "made in china" stamp. I'm not sure if that is the industry standard these days, but when it comes to automotive anything I don't trust "made in china" anything...don't get me started on chinese tires. I think the simplist solution is upgrade to a "made in USA" coupler with a higher wieght rating and/or your side bolt idea. In lou of drilling into the aluminum I wonder if you can get a local fab shop box out the coupler so it surrounds the A frame, then bolt from the top, sides and/or bottom.
[/quote][font size="3"]I agree on the China thing, but I don't think that's the problem here. It's simply misapplied and misinstalled. The coupler was designed to be welded all around to a steel A frame. I don't think you can weld two dissimilar metals due to differing melting temperatures. I've not found any coupler with higher ratings that did not also require
welding. You just can't hold these kinds of loads by bolting from the
top. I'm going to try the added bolt fix first. I've thought of the welded box idea, but that's a bit harder to do.
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[quote source="/post/4413/thread" timestamp="1414199823" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/4411/thread" timestamp="1414198462" author="@tlbones"]One of the first things I noticed about the coupler on my 2013 16db was the "made in china" stamp. I'm not sure if that is the industry standard these days, but when it comes to automotive anything I don't trust "made in china" anything...don't get me started on chinese tires. I think the simplist solution is upgrade to a "made in USA" coupler with a higher wieght rating and/or your side bolt idea. In lou of drilling into the aluminum I wonder if you can get a local fab shop box out the coupler so it surrounds the A frame, then bolt from the top, sides and/or bottom.
[/quote][font size="3"]I agree on the China thing, but I don't think that's the problem here. It's simply misapplied and misinstalled. The coupler was designed to be welded all around to a steel A frame. I don't think you can weld two dissimilar metals due to differing melting temperatures. I've not found any coupler with higher ratings that did not also require
welding. You just can't hold these kinds of loads by bolting from the
top. I'm going to try the added bolt fix first. I've thought of the welded box idea, but that's a bit harder to do.
[/font][/quote]I understand it's more work to box out the frame than bolt. I don't think you need to fully box it the entire lengh....I think more of a strap around the leading edge of the a frame concept perhaps bolted on with the side bolts you propose instead of welding? Maybe if you can find a U clamp large enough to strap around the coupler/A frame? Best of luck and I am troubled by your discovery. I see you posted in the factory section. I really hope they respond with some help. This shouldn't be your problem to solve alone.
[quote source="/post/4415/thread" timestamp="1414200896" author="@tlbones"]Maybe if you can find a U clamp large enough to strap around the coupler/A frame?
[/quote][font size="3"]Funny you should say that. The U-bolt was my first thought and it might work. I just don't know where to find that large galvanized U-bolt.
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[font face="comic sans ms" size="3"]Here is a 15K bolt on coupler for a 2 5/16 ball. [a href="http://www.etrailer.com/p-BD44150WH301.html"]http://www.etrailer.com/p-BD44150WH301.html[/a] [/font]
[quote source="/post/4419/thread" timestamp="1414215559" author="@james"][font face="comic sans ms" size="3"]Here is a 15K bolt on coupler for a 2 5/16 ball. [a href="http://www.etrailer.com/p-BD44150WH301.html"]http://www.etrailer.com/p-BD44150WH301.html[/a] [/font][/quote][font size="3"]James,
I had looked at this one before, but for several reasons, it would be hard to mount on the CL. Among other things, the CL has plates welded such that access to the side holes is blocked. And if it would work I think the result would be similar to what I would get by adding the two side bolts to mine. Thanks for the input....Keep thinking about it.
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I inspected mine and with nearly 10K in miles no bends. However, I feel the bolts are not tight enough. Anybody have a feel for the torque specs?
[quote source="/post/4423/thread" timestamp="1414253910" author="@shovelhead"]I inspected mine and with nearly 10K in miles no bends. However, I fell the bolts are tight enough. Anybody have a feel for the torque specs?[/quote][font size="3"]How many gas bottles and batteries do you have on the tongue and do you use a WDH??[/font]
[quote source="/post/4424/thread" timestamp="1414254473" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/4423/thread" timestamp="1414253910" author="@shovelhead"]I inspected mine and with nearly 10K in miles no bends. However, I feel the bolts are not tight enough. Anybody have a feel for the torque specs?[/quote][font size="3"]How many gas bottles and batteries do you have on the tongue and do you use a WDH??[/font]
[/quote]The standard battery and 2 bottles. I have the Andersen WDH but have not towed with it yet.
[p][font face="comic sans ms" size="3"]Charliem,[/font][/p][p][font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"]
[/font][/p][p][font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"]This, I.M.O., is the least invasive fix for your conundrum. I'd go with 1/4 or 3/8 plate. This piece could be flame cut in just a few minutes, or a band saw which would take longer. I would still go with a different coupler; the current coupler obviously has a bad track record. I'd also call L.L. and find out the results of the live test that they (should have) performed on your particular trailer? [/font][/p][p][attachment id="426" thumbnail="1"][/p]
[font size="3"]James,
Thanks for the reply and ideas. I had also thought of a similar approach using narrow strips of sheet steel or even short pieces of 1" or 1.25" square steel tubing. However, this still band-aids the underlying misapplication. I'm leaning toward adding the two 1/2" bolts on the sides, but I appreciate, and am open to, all thoughts. That's what's great about forums like this.
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[quote source="/post/4428/thread" timestamp="1414329806" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]James,
Thanks for the reply and ideas. I had also thought of a similar approach using narrow strips of sheet steel or even short pieces of 1" or 1.25" square steel tubing. However, this still band-aids the underlying misapplication. I'm leaning toward adding the two 1/2" bolts on the sides, but I appreciate, and am open to, all thoughts. That's what's great about forums like this.
[/font][/quote]Charlie,
I checked the coupler on my 21BHS and there is no bending at all. I hit some really rough roads at 65 mph on our trip to Arizona and back, and the trailer was bounced pretty good a few times. So I know we stressed that coupler pretty good. With your WDH hitch adjusted as you normally do, did you ever weigh everything to determine the forces being applied at the hitch point? I don't tighten up my Andersen hitch very much, so I may not be placing as much force at that point. I would go with your idea of the two bolts in the side, to anchor the front end of the coupler. I would use galvanized or even better, stainless steel bolts to minimize galvanic corrosion.
Doug
[font size="3"]Doug,
Thanks for the reply and I'm glad you're not having problems. The first time I had this problem I had the WDH set pretty high. After I replaced the original coupler I set the WDH much lower, but still had the bending. I've not weighed to see the real numbers, but I really like the way it tows and can definitely tell the difference with and without WDH. I need to fix the coupler problem. From previous experience I don't think the WDH is too aggressive.
I don't think rough roads are the problem, but deep and short dips such as parking lot and gas station entrances are. Any place that elevates the trailer relative to the rear of the TV puts a lot of force on the coupler via the WDH. As you have said, weight distribution is not Anderson's strong point so you may not see the problem. An advantage to the full sized truck.
After I straighten the present coupler I'm definitely leaning toward the two added 1/2" bolts. I'm thinking I may have to add a few large washers between the coupler and frame to avoid deforming the coupler too much. I agree on stainless. Everything I add to the trailer is SS.
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[quote source="/post/4431/thread" timestamp="1414348402" author="exploring/carolina"][div][/div]Here's a photo link for the aluminum VRV XTR cargo trailer coupler. Looks like their installation has horizontal bolts in their coupling:
https://www.facebook.com/279747078718449/photos/pb.279747078718449.-2207520000.1414347506./838990712794080/?type=3&theater
Bill[/quote][font size="3"]Bill,
You're absolutely right. Now that you point it out I also see it on VRV 8.5x20, VRV 8.5x 24, Axxess 8.5x30, and several Polaris models. If the VRV is yours, can you tell me if the side bolts go through both walls of the frame tubing or just one and are there any added backing plates or nut plates for the bolts? I guess I'm on the phone to LL come Monday.
Thanks for the info and thanks for dropping by. How 'bout joining us?
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[quote source="/post/4432/thread" timestamp="1414351759" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/4431/thread" timestamp="1414348402" author="exploring/carolina"][div][/div][div][/div][div][/div]Here's a photo link for the aluminum VRV XTR cargo trailer coupler. Looks like their installation has horizontal bolts in their coupling:
https://www.facebook.com/279747078718449/photos/pb.279747078718449.-2207520000.1414347506./838990712794080/?type=3&theater
Bill[/quote][font size="3"]Bill,
You're absolutely right. Now that you point it out I also see it on VRV 8.5x20, VRV 8.5x 24, Axxess 8.5x30, and several Polaris models. If the VRV is yours, can you tell me if the side bolts go through both walls of the frame tubing or just one and are there any added backing plates or nut plates for the bolts? I guess I'm on the phone to LL come Monday.
Thanks for the info and thanks for dropping by. How 'bout joining us?
[/font][/quote]Charlie,
It's not my VRV. I have a CampLite 11.
Looks like an easy issue to correct during manufacturing or after manufacture. LivinLite could easily supply kits to correct affected models.
Almost sold our CampLite earlier this year to buy a larger TT, but decided to keep it a little longer. Rejoined!
[font size="3"]Great, Bill.
Glad to have you back. The side bolt is my preferred solution now, but I'm wondering if the VRV coupler is any beefier. It does look slightly different, and putting the side holes and bolts would be an easy job, even in the field. Thanks.
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Just checked mine and it's not exactly flat, but not nearly as bad as yours. I'm interested to hear a response from CL on this one.
[font size="3"]Here's my fix for the bent coupler on my 21RBS.
[attachment id="904" thumbnail="1"]
Don N. at LL was kind enough to send me the heavier coupler they use on their larger trailers. Although I believe the OEM coupler could have been straightened and made to serve with the addition of the side bolts, I elected to go with the heavier coupler and be sure. The new coupler weighs 9.875# vs. 7.25# for the original, requires a 2+5/16" ball, and must be positioned to accommodate the jack hole, but it can be drilled and mounted adequately. The coupler is first aligned with the jack hole, clamped, and marked in four places from below with a ½" drill. Then the coupler can be removed and drilled to fit.
[attachment id="905" thumbnail="1"]
With the coupler reinstalled the side holes can be drilled through the coupler and outside surfaces of the two frame members. I considered stainless bolts, but went with ½" dia. 13 TPI Grade 8 high strength bolts so I could torque them to 80 ft-lbs. Six ½" x 0.1' thick washers were added to each side to make a tight stack when torqued. The side bolts were drilled 2.25" up from the bottom of the frame and 1" in from the front edge of the frame. I used 2" long bolts with flat and lock washers. The resulting bolts position as shown.
[attachment id="906" thumbnail="1"]
The new coupler is 0.20" thick vs. 0.16" for the OEM and requires the larger ball. Theoretically the new coupler is 56% stronger in bending strength than the OEM [(0.20/0.16)**2] so it might work without the side bolts and the OEM might work with only the added side bolts, but I wanted to opt for overkill. The couplers are designed to be welded. If steel cannot be welded to aluminum the side bolts are required. Top bolts alone are marginal.
I emphasize that this is a solution, not the solution. The best solution would be for LL to recognize that some customers will require a WDH on this sized trailer and install an adequate coupler at the factory. They apparently have done so on their larger toy haulers. Even without the WDH contribution a coupler/ball combo rated at 5000# is marginal for a trailer rated at 5000# GVWR with 7000# axles. Two inch balls rated above 5000# are available, but the 2+5/16" is just nice. I haven't towed with this yet so the proof is still in the future, but it looks and feels good. Stay tuned.
Thanks to Don at LL for his help and cooperation. I will forward this info to him for their consideration.
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Excellent, it should have been this way from the get-go.
[font size="3"]For those who might want to straighten and remount their OEM coupler I offer my soon to be patented Coupler Straightening Device (CSD). It carries absolutely no national certifications and is not endorsed by OSHA. It is, however, recommended by the EPA and other environmental groups interested in recycling. It works for me, but YMMV :P ;).
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Looks great. Thanks for the pictures. Can't beat the support from Don.
Don has always been good to work with.
Like you say, it's a solution that will work. Looks good!!!!
[font size="3"]I just returned from a 500 mile tow with the new upgraded coupler. No indication of bending. No deformation of the forward flat washers which was one of the early indicators of bending before. The WDH is not cranked way up, but it was set to take out all the porpoising and bounce. It did bring the front TV fenders back about halfway from unloaded. The ride was very comfortable and felt secure. [/font][font size="3"]The larger 2-5/16" ball and different locking mechanism are a lot easier to couple and uncouple. I like it!
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OK I am trying to post the pictures of the heavier hitch (supplied by Sunny Island RV s LL did not install it) I have tried to post two pictures of the hitch with the side bolts installed but not sure it is happening; two pictures one of each side showing one side bolt high on the hitch and one low.
[attachment id="689"][attachment id="690"]
[quote source="/post/8950/thread" timestamp="1428369277" author="@monted"]OK I am trying to post the pictures of the heavier hitch (supplied by Sunny Island RV s LL did not install it) I have tried to post two pictures of the hitch with the side bolts installed but not sure it is happening; two pictures one of each side showing one side bolt high on the hitch and one low.
[/quote][font size="3"]It's hard to tell from the pix, but it looks like they got the general idea. Measured at the point the side bolts are inserted, how much space is between the black coupler metal and the aluminum frame? Is it a tight flush fit or is there space between the two surfaces? If space, is the space completely filled with flat washers or other material? What diameter are the side bolts?
BTW, your attached pictures are apparently HTML and open with Internet Explorer.
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1st.. in an odd way, glad to see the coupler bent.. and not the frame.
2nd, I wonder if the stock coupler couldn't have a piece of angle, or "U" channel added/welded so it gripped or boxed the frame at the bottom. Then the extra bolt, or maybe two, added.
[quote source="/post/9345/thread" timestamp="1429030129" author="@furpod"]1st.. in an odd way, glad to see the coupler bent.. and not the frame.
2nd, I wonder if the stock coupler couldn't have a piece of angle, or "U" channel added/welded so it gripped or boxed the frame at the bottom. Then the extra bolt, or maybe two, added.[/quote][font size="3"]Of course, you're right. Much better to replace the coupler than to straighten the frame. I don't really think the frame is in danger of bending, especially if you don't go drilling holes in sensitive spots. You probably could figure some added bracketry, but you need to get it up front as far as possible. I've always thought the OEM coupler would be fine if properly installed. It can't be welded to the aluminum, but the two added side bolts seem to be adequate. The best solution would be for LL to properly position the coupler and tongue jack so there is minimal dead space between them and add the two bolts.
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[attachment id="766" thumbnail="1"]
I finally got underneath the tongue to take a picture of the side bolts as applied by the dealer SI RV and not LL.
[attachment id="768" thumbnail="1"]
LL puts this type of request back on the dealer according to SIRV service manager. He said they(dealers) do it all, batteries, insulation, extra plugs etc.
This picture is not very clear but it appears they put the bolts (again one high and one low) through the rectangle aluminum frame and bolt from the back of the tongue (opposite end of the ball socket) This appears to be the only way to reach the end of the bolt. The bolt size appears to be the same as other bolts used for the top. Hope this helps.
[font size="3"]MonteD,
It's hard to tell from your second picture. Are there nuts on the two added bolts or are they tapped and threaded into the frame member? Do the bolts go all the way through both sides of a frame member or do they thread into the second side wall? It's hard to see how there could be access to nuts if they go all the way through. Mine has a solid aluminum plate welded across the bottom of the two frame members through which the tongue jack shaft goes. This prevents access to any nuts on the inside of the front Vee.
How much open space is between the inside surface of the coupler and the adjacent outer surface of the frame member? Is the space filled with washers or just air?
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Was able to get the side bolts in this past weekend too, and finish setting up the EZ2 round bar. Now the trailer is nice and stable behind us.
Thanks everyone for all the work we put together coming up with A solution to this.
[p]Did this Mod to my BC16FK today.[/p][p]
[/p][p][attachment id="821" thumbnail="1"][/p]
[font size="3"]Looks like you did it right. Good job.
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while extra bolts may seem like a fix, i still think it is a band aid solution. the LL campers were designed to be lightweight and just not designed to use a wdh hitch. LL has always warned against the use of wd hitches on there campers, and while everyone points to the aluminum frame as the reason, maybe the fact that they are limited to bolt on couplers adds to their equation. they are using a coupler spec'ed to meet the requirements of a certain amount of tongue weight (i would guess 10-15% plus some buffer). saying LL is responsible for the coupler bending when the owner takes steps to compensate for the spec'ed tongue weight (such as a wdh hitch), even when it is suggested against, is a bit irrational.
[quote source="/post/10667/thread" timestamp="1431398743" author="@thudd3r"] they are using a coupler spec'ed to meet the requirements of a certain amount of tongue weight (i would guess 10-15% plus some buffer). saying LL is responsible for the coupler bending when the owner takes steps to compensate for the spec'ed tongue weight (such as a wdh hitch), even when it is suggested against, is a bit irrational.[/quote][font size="3"]Disagree. The coupler was designed to be welded to a frame. It is manufactured with no holes in it. Clearly designed for welding to a steel frame. LL drills the four holes. This is a misapplication of the coupler. Other couplers designed to bolt on come with side holes drilled.
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[quote source="/post/10670/thread" timestamp="1431401057" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/10667/thread" timestamp="1431398743" author="@thudd3r"] they are using a coupler spec'ed to meet the requirements of a certain amount of tongue weight (i would guess 10-15% plus some buffer). saying LL is responsible for the coupler bending when the owner takes steps to compensate for the spec'ed tongue weight (such as a wdh hitch), even when it is suggested against, is a bit irrational.[/quote][font size="3"]Disagree. The coupler was designed to be welded to a frame. It is manufactured with no holes in it. Clearly designed for welding to a steel frame. LL drills the four holes. This is a misapplication of the coupler. Other couplers designed to bolt on come with side holes drilled.
[/font][/quote]i agree that it may not be the best choice of parts, but as long as it is used as intended by LL and doesnt fail, i dont see how they can be held responsible when it is used in a manner other than intended and fails.
without a wd hitch, the ball can act as a pivot up and down as well as side to side. this motion will reduce the stress on the coupler. if the coupler is really that weak, i would expect that we would hear of failures from other that are not using a wd hitch. i dont know the physics behind it, but i dont believe LL will ever take responsibility if the product is not being used as intended. they will sell replacement couplers all day long, but you are going to be very lucky to have them replace one under warranty
I agree with Charlie. Two bolts should make that coupler handle the bending load just fine and comes close to doing what welding would do on a steel frame.
The use of a WDH is indicated by tow vehicle capabilities vs tongue weight. When the TV rear end sags more than about 1-1/2" when hitched up, then you need a WDH no matter what LL may say.
Whether a mild WDH would affect the aluminum frame is subject to some debate. If we had purchased a 21RBS instead of the lighter 16TBS that we did, I would have had aluminum plates welded to the front frame members to take the additional stresses of a WDH. But I don't think anyone has gone that far and so far they seem to be working fine.
David
The LL QS VRV's come with those side bolts.
I was surprised my Bearcat Toyhauler didn't already have the side bolts as my unloaded toy hitch weight is 625 lbs, way over the 500 lb limit for my F150 with no WDH.
If LL claims half-ton towable then w/o a WDH and no toys loaded then you are pushing the safety limits of your TV and your Life.
I went with the WDH.
Our Bearcat came with the side bolts already. There is no way I'd tow our BC7X20 without a WDH, way too much tongue weight. There is no way LL can say this thing is half ton towable and then not allow a WDH. There isn't any half ton truck that allows a tongue weight over 500 lbs without one...
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/Picking%20up%20Camper%20at%20SIRV/th_image.jpg1_zpsuqnzazzt.jpg)[/URL
Added the side bolts while camping in Yellowstone. Have not weighed yet and had concerns about tongue weight so did the mod a soon as I could. (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/bvabob1/media/Picking%20up%20Camper%20at%20SIRV/image.jpg1_zpsuqnzazzt.jpg.html)
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/Our%20New%20Camper/th_image.jpg1_zpswulsgtzb.jpg) (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/bvabob1/media/Our%20New%20Camper/image.jpg1_zpswulsgtzb.jpg.html)
Made a correction base on an observation by Charlie. My original coupler bolts were in the wrong position. Miss-interpreted the front of the frame to the back of the coupler (still have not for figured out how I did that unless Jimmie B was working on me) and put 2 bolts in the wrong position. Added 2 more bolts in the correct position and have decided that keeping all 4 bolts will not hurt anything. The coupler is flush with the frame so no additional washers were needed between the coupler and frame. All 4 bolts torqued to 90 lbs. thanks CharlieM for the info on error and correction.
Nothing wrong with 4 bolts instead of 2.
I'm happy to see you added the additional front side bolts.
Quote from: @swbc150" timestamp="1436911034" source="/post/13227/threadNothing wrong with 4 bolts instead of 2.
I'm happy to see you added the additional front side bolts.
I suppose.
Still, I would personally want to minimize the size and number of holes drilled in the frame.
[p]Mine was a completely different fix. After receiving the new 2-5/16th coupler from LL and finding the serious damage under the 2" Coupler, mine is now with a Steel Channel coupler mount, with reinforce welded Aluminum plate, Flat steel plate and steel channel.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Don was Great to work with at LL.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p][a href="http://s774.photobucket.com/user/SWBF750/media/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Coupler%20Mount%20primed_zpswkxtm9e4.jpg.html"]
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Coupler%20Mount%20primed_zpswkxtm9e4.jpg"][/a][/p]
[font size="3"]THAT is a coupler mod! Did you have frame damage? Bending or failure of the frame tubes? Did LL help with this mod or did you do it with a local welding shop?
[/font]
[p]charliem, 1st let me say "Thank You" to you for the side bolt Mod, if I hadn't done that I may not have this Bearcat toyhauler right now as I may have lost the trailer due to a complete failed coupler.
My problem was a incorrect install of the top 4-bolt Coupler, not sure if it was install at the LL Factory or a Dealer install.
The 4 top mounting holes were not drilled straight through the Aluminum Frame causing the grade 8 bolts not being able to stay tight resulting in rounding out the mounting holes both on the top and bottom of the aluminum frame. Additional someone drilled two more holes on the rear lower aluminum frame in trying to align the bolts but they were still not a straight drill mount. I found this after I decided to install the heavier built 2-5/16th coupler, I then reached out to LL with Don N for a warranty claim.
Don sent out the parts to fix the problem and instructed me to find a Certified Aluminum Welder. I then contacted 5 Local Welders, 2-refused to even look at the problem, they said the job was too small and didn't want it. The other 3 all came to the same conclusion, they refused to repair it after closer inspection of my problem with the supplied parts that LL sent. I went back to the 1st Welder I contacted and they took the repair to the next level.
What was the main concerns the three Welders had?
1.- They all felt this section of the frame had been over-stressed and compromised with possibility of complete failure in the very near future resulting in a towing disaster.
2.- They all refused to try the repair with the supplied parts from LL, they felt it would still be a problem down the road and this section of the frame was too weak for the suggested LL repair.
Here are some more Pic's of the problem and the fix.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The reason I am pointing this out is all of us with the bolted on Couplers need to check these 4 bolts to be sure they are tight just like checking your Trailer lug nuts before you tow. If the 4 bolts are loose, then a closer look needs to be checked and see why they are not staying tight.[/p][p]I'll post the pic's over the next few postings.
Living Lite has been great to deal with and For Standing Behind their Products.
Livin-lite warranty paid the Bill in Full, a Big Thanks Goes to Don Neufelder for his outstanding support with this repair.[/p][p]
[/p][p][a href="http://s774.photobucket.com/user/SWBF750/media/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Black%20line%20marks%20cut%20off_zps40hsqy5a.jpg.html"]
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Black%20line%20marks%20cut%20off_zps40hsqy5a.jpg"][/a][/p][p]The Black line shows where the cut-off is, this section to the front was cut-off.[/p][p]
[/p][p][a href="http://s774.photobucket.com/user/SWBF750/media/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Multi%20Holes%20Drilled_zpsiddku9vf.jpg.html"]
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Multi%20Holes%20Drilled_zpsiddku9vf.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Not%20Drill%20Straight%20Lside_zpsjs6bfbrz.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/New%20welded%20Aluminum%20Plate_zpskomt9hi7.jpg"][/a][/p][p]
[/p][p]Thick Steel Plate Bolted to the New Welded in Aluminum Plate with 4 Grade 8 Bolts.[/p][p][a href="http://s774.photobucket.com/user/SWBF750/media/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Steel%20Plate%20location_zps3jelc8my.jpg.html"]
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Steel%20Plate%20location_zps3jelc8my.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Steel%20Channel%20Mounted_zpsehm8zd0y.jpg)
[p]Side view of the steel channel, next step weld on the 2-5/16th Coupler.
[a href="http://s774.photobucket.com/user/SWBF750/media/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Steel%20Channel%20side%20view_zpsc5d01je9.jpg.html"]
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/SWBF750/2015%20Livin-Lite%20Bearcat%20BC16FK%20ToyHauler/Steel%20Channel%20side%20view_zpsc5d01je9.jpg)
Wow!!! You had a failure of the main frame tubing (see the cracks in the first picture) which resulted in cutting off the front of the A and welding a heavy aluminum plate to it and then bolting a steel coupling mounting. Wow!!
There were huge forces in play that resulted in that aluminum tubing failing. It makes Charlie's coupler bending problem look trivial by comparison'
LL definitely needs to work on their coupler mounting procedure.
christianm, are you paying attention. This is a &*%$ disaster.
David
david, those aren't cracks in the 1st pic, that is a painted line showing where the cut-off was going to be. There were two cracks starting but none shown in these pic's. One was at a weld on the inside A and the other was starting on the inside the right aluminum tubing right at the upper drilled 1/2" hole.
I believe the two side added coupler drilled mounts saved my Bearcat Trailer from breaking loose by not loosening up the 4 top bolts too much but still allot of extra force was applied on all 6 bolts during towing do to the poor 4 drilled mounting holes for the coupler mount.
I hope those little wiggly black lines in the first photo are marks for cutting, not cracks. But still, seeing the original coupler mounting hole problem is awful. I sure hope mine isn't like that. I check the bolts occasionally, but I do use a WDH and now I wonder if I should worry about the stress on a potentially weak joint. The fix in the photos is a massive new joint. Is there a concern about galvanic corrosion where bare steel meets bare aluminum?
The welder said no to the concerns of Metal to Aluminum surfaces, they have been doing these types of repairs for years with other aluminum frames failures.
Observations and 2 questions......
The first photo shows a front coupler bolt that doesn't appear to be able to be torqued correctly because of a mis-installed washer. Someone cut the washer to clear a mis-aligned power tongue jack base, but didn't get enough removed. I'll remove that bolt and do it right. Question 1 is whether anyone knows the correct torque and correct grade hardware?
The 2nd two photos show the rear of the coupler that has a significant bend in it. Question 2, Is that bend normal, or has the rear been bent? If anyone with this style of coupler could take a look at theirs, I'd appreciate it.
[attachment id="1006" thumbnail="1"]
[attachment id="1007" thumbnail="1"]
[attachment id="1008" thumbnail="1"]
[quote source="/post/16988/thread" timestamp="1449429470" author="@sandroad"]Observations and 2 questions......
The first photo shows a front coupler bolt that doesn't appear to be able to be torqued correctly because of a mis-installed washer. Someone cut the washer to clear a mis-aligned power tongue jack base, but didn't get enough removed. I'll remove that bolt and do it right. Question 1 is whether anyone knows the correct torque and correct grade hardware?
The 2nd two photos show the rear of the coupler that has a significant bend in it. Question 2, Is that bend normal, or has the rear been bent? If anyone with this style of coupler could take a look at theirs, I'd appreciate it.
[/quote][font size="3"]IF you have the same bolts as my 21RBS they are Grade 8 high strength bolts. The heads should be marked with 6 radial lines. See the reference. The recommended torque for 1/2" grade 8 course threaded bolts is 80 lb-ft.
My OEM coupler had a slight crown at the rear. If the bolts tighten flat and the jack flange is flat it's probably not a problem.
For reference on bolts:
[a href="https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx"]https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx[/a]
[/font]
Thanks! Just what I needed. I'll get out the torque wrench.
This is a pretty impressive coupler attachment. I had a similar thought to make a steel triangular "sleeve" that had the coupler welded to it and would slide over a good portion of the tongue. This takes it to another level though. Makes me think LL should have done something like this originally. Definitely beats four bolts.
Hi all,
Before I do the side bolt addition on my coupler, perhaps I'm having the same problem as the original post. I've read through all pages of this thread... Mine looks a little bent to me. Should I call Livin' Lite and get a new 2&5/16" coupler first?
At first I thought it was an optical illusion, but I'd like to see photos by others who have the 2&5/16" coupler.
I have a 2015 28BHS and tow with a Duramax Silverado 3/4 ton. I had a weight distributing hitch for about 3 trips but removed it based on this thread, [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/149/weight-distribution-sway-tongue"]the WDH thread[/a], and the fact that I have airbags in the rear of the truck that I can adjust from the cab. We just did a trip of 240 miles without the WDH and it was no problem. The airbags worked great.
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/4027238_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/7605183_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/2356644_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/192391_orig.jpg)
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/5293966_orig.jpg)
Here are some photos from the dealer... I can't tell for sure...
(http://www.nishnavalleycycle.com/dropbox/13489/ss_369-IMG_6692.JPG)
(http://www.nishnavalleycycle.com/dropbox/13489/ss_369-IMG_6685.JPG)
(http://www.nishnavalleycycle.com/dropbox/13489/ss_369-IMG_6686.JPG)
[quote source="/post/17875/thread" timestamp="1453160395" author="@purdytj"]Hi all,
Before I do the side bolt addition on my coupler, perhaps I'm having the same problem as the original post. I've read through all pages of this thread... Mine looks a little bent to me. Should I call Livin' Lite and get a new 2&5/16" coupler first?
At first I thought it was an optical illusion, but I'd like to see photos by others who have the 2&5/16" coupler.
I have a 2015 28BHS and tow with a Duramax Silverado 3/4 ton. I had a weight distributing hitch for about 3 trips but removed it based on this thread, [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/149/weight-distribution-sway-tongue"]the WDH thread[/a], and the fact that I have airbags in the rear of the truck that I can adjust from the cab. We just did a trip of 240 miles without the WDH and it was no problem. The airbags worked great.
(http://purdygreatlife.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/7/10770719/4027238_orig.jpg)It doesn't look nearly as bad as charliem's picture in his first post, but it does look like it's starting to bend a little in this first picture.
[font size="3"]I agree the coupler looks bent. Another place to look is the washers around the front bolts. As the coupler bends up the washers will also bend up ahead of the bolt head. I think I see bent washers in you pictures.
With a 3/4 ton truck you may get away without the WDH though you may still want some sway control. If I were doing it I would replace the coupler and add the side bolts.
I really like the 2-5/16 coupler and ball. You can get a 2-5/16 coupler from Don at LL, but TinkeringTechie found one that looks better and looks easier to install. The LL coupler will work, I used it, but the required drilling is tricky. TinkeringTechie used a Bulldog 2-5/16 coupler that required much less drilling.
[a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/post/13281/thread"]http://livinlite-owners.com/post/13281/thread[/a]
[a href="http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD44150WH301.html"]http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD44150WH301.html[/a]
Read his postings and consider it. The bulldog is probably more expensive than buying from LL, but it would be worth it for strength and ease of installation. If you need more detail just send a private message to Tinkeringtechie.
[/font]
[quote source="/post/17883/thread" timestamp="1453169868" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]I agree the coupler looks bent. Another place to look is the washers around the front bolts. As the coupler bends up the washers will also bend up ahead of the bolt head. I think I see bent washers in you pictures.
With a 3/4 ton truck you may get away without the WDH though you may still want some sway control. If I were doing it I would replace the coupler and add the side bolts.
I really like the 2-5/16 coupler and ball. You can get a 2-5/16 coupler from Don at LL, but TinkeringTechie found one that looks better and looks easier to install. The LL coupler will work, I used it, but the required drilling is tricky. TinkeringTechie used a Bulldog 2-5/16 coupler that required much less drilling.
[a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/post/13281/thread"]http://livinlite-owners.com/post/13281/thread[/a]
[a href="http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD44150WH301.html"]http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Coupler/Bulldog/BD44150WH301.html[/a]
Read his postings and consider it. The bulldog is probably more expensive than buying from LL, but it would be worth it for strength and ease of installation. If you need more detail just send a private message to Tinkeringtechie.
[/font][/quote]
Thanks for this info. I do think that Bulldog coupler looks more stout.
Shouldn't Livin' Lite cover this under warranty? I've only had the camper since Labor Day.
[quote source="/post/17885/thread" timestamp="1453172291" author="@purdytj"]Thanks for this info. I do think that Bulldog coupler looks more stout.
Shouldn't Livin' Lite cover this under warranty? I've only had the camper since Labor Day.
[/quote][font size="3"]I agree they should cover it and the installation, but I don't know if they will. They MAY make the argument that you used a WDH against their recommendation. It doesn't hurt to try. In my limited contract law exposure this qualifies as a latent defect. It is known and has been well reported on this forum and directly to LL. They even put a beefier coupler and side bolts on their toy haulers. That said, sometimes it's easier to give in and fix it yourself. Better for your blood pressure and mental health. I'd love to see/hear LL's response if you push them. I think the old LL would have come through, but I don't know about Thor. They're on a different course.
Keep us in the loop, please. [/font]
[quote source="/post/17886/thread" timestamp="1453173162" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/17885/thread" timestamp="1453172291" author="@purdytj"]Thanks for this info. I do think that Bulldog coupler looks more stout.
Shouldn't Livin' Lite cover this under warranty? I've only had the camper since Labor Day.
[/quote][font size="3"]I agree they should cover it and the installation, but I don't know if they will. They MAY make the argument that you used a WDH against their recommendation. It doesn't hurt to try. In my limited contract law exposure this qualifies as a latent defect. It is know and has been well reported on this forum and directly to LL. They even put a beefier coupler and side bolts on their toy haulers. That said, sometimes it's easier to give in and fix it yourself. Better for your blood pressure and mental health. I'd love to see/hear LL's response if you push them. I think the old LL would have come through, but I don't know about Thor. They're on a different course.
Keep us in the loop, please. [/font]
[/quote]
They MAY make the argument that you used a WDH against their recommendation
I wish the dealer would have indicated as much! They probably didn't even know since [a href="http://nishnavalleycycle.com/search-results.html?make=livin%20lite"]they are a motorcycle dealership[/a] that is into a few campers on the side.
I will keep you in the loop. I do like the Bulldog's significantly stronger carrying capacity compared to the stock unit.
[font size="3"]Just to be clear, I have never seen LL recommend NOT using WDH. They have always said they do not recommend a WDH, but I've never seen them specifically recommend NOT using it. [/font][font size="3"]There's a difference. [/font][font size="3"]One says "We don't think WDH is necessary"; the other says "We recommend you DO NOT use WDH because it may/will damage the trailer". More full time employment for lawyers. I and others have repeatedly asked for LL's official position on WDH, but none has ever been put forth.
[/font]
When I picked up my trailer at the factory in 2012 I had a Equal-I-Zer WDH (Model: 90-00-0400) I installed in their parking lot with Don N. (the warrantee guy) looking over my shoulder. Like Charliem notes, I was told it likely wouldn't be necessary. Don noted that in Livin'Lites early years they had seen some Quicksilver campers damaged by WD hitches. He noted that, as a consequence, the frame tubes on subsequent Quicksilvers were increased in size and when they came out with the Camplites they increased the frame tube size again. Don did not tell me not to use the WDH and I've not had any trouble with it.
One more unusual custom thing I had the factory install on my small but mighty Camplite 11FDB is a 'Quickbite' coupler. It is rated for 10,000 pounds so it is unlikely it would ever bend. (The frame would certainly bend first or my hitch break). I attach a couple pics of my coupler, taken at the factory.
(http://s17.postimg.org/tp2z5nmsv/IMG_1473.jpg)
(http://s18.postimg.org/ndjrg4q3t/IMG_1481.jpg)
(http://s24.postimg.org/tybt1u885/quickbite.jpg)
That is one helluva coupler!!
My experience with LL is exactly as Charlie described. The say that you won't need a WDH, but they won't say not to use one. But off the record they say that WDHs have bent the frame in the past, but only because the owner tightened the bars down too tight. In the same breath they told me that once I try a WDH I will never give it up. This was from an ex Reese guy.
So, I remain skeptical about using a WDH on a 21' or longer LL trailer. I know others use them and other than the bent coupler, have no problems. I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, so I would weld an aluminum angle doubler along the front frame to make $#%@ sure it won't bend.
David
[quote source="/post/17933/thread" timestamp="1453456598" author="@peislander"]
One more unusual custom thing I had the factory install on my small but mighty Camplite 11FDB is a 'Quickbite' coupler. It is rated for 10,000 pounds so it is unlikely it would ever bend. [font size="3"][font color="090002"]Yeah, Mon. That be a serious coupler..........for an elephant trailer........But then we are talking about the small but mighty 11.[/font] 8-) [/font]
I suspect mine is the only one Livin'Lite has ever installed. [font color="090002" size="3"]Roger that, good buddy, and probably never again.[/font] :-/
...........you align your tow vehicle with the coupler -- and the just back into it. Of course you need to vertically adjust the coupler/trailer height before backing into it. The Quickbite does not drop down onto the ball. It is very easy to use. [font size="3"]I would think the vertical alignment would be a PITA, but maybe not.
[/font]
[/quote]
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/17936/thread" timestamp="1453471052I would think the vertical alignment would be a PITA, but maybe not.
Typically I temporarily drive the hitch until it is close to the coupler. Then using one of those telescopic alignment aids I mentioned, I compare the height of the ball to the height of the coupler -- and use the manual jack wheel thing-a-ma-jig to adjust the coupler height up or down as needed. Then its just a simple matter to pull the tow vehicle forward a wee bit and then if the alignment is right - back right into the coupler. It will clap shut with a very noticeable 'clunk'. At that moment you could in theory shift into forward and floor it. Peddle to the metal! The trailer would be securely coupled but the flying gravel might damage the beautiful orbit front of the Camplite. Other campers would likely be annoyed too (and who can blame them especially after a Tacoma with a cute but tiny trailer going 80mph runs over their first-born spawn on his tricycle). Rather than that I typically turn off the ignition, get out, stow the alignment aids, connect the 7-pin connector, stow the wheel chocks, engage the safety pin into the coupler, connect the safety chains, and double check that the fridge door is latched. And after the horrific Thetford incident of a few years ago when I drove a few hundred miles with the cassette toilet's bowl valve wide open and an almost full toilet tank (Don't try it kids!) --- now I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS check the toilet before hitting the road. It is important to keep the shit from hitting the fan!!! (Good thing the wet bath walls are easy to clean :P ). I wish I hadn't relived that experience. The nightmares might return tonight...
I also check my lights and do one last review of the campsite to make sure I'm not leaving something behind. I make sure my bride & the dog are in the tow vehicle too.
My plan for next season regarding the vertical alignment is to try marking the bubble position in the spirit level I have on the coupler. I'll mark the bubble position when I un-couple the coupler so that when I want to re-couple I'll use the jack thingie to return the coupler to its previous height by raising or lowering until the bubble is where it was when I un-coupled. If that works I'll be quicker to couple my QuickBite. :)) The back-up camera on my Tacoma makes it all much easier than my previous tow vehicle that had no camera.
[quote source="/post/17937/thread" timestamp="1453508028" author="@peislander"]
My plan for next season regarding the vertical alignment is to try marking the bubble position in the spirit level I have on the coupler. I'll mark the bubble position when I un-couple the coupler so that when I want to re-couple I'll use the jack thingie to return the coupler to its previous height by raising or lowering until the bubble is where it was when I un-coupled. If that works I'll be quicker to couple my QuickBite. :)) The back-up camera on my Tacoma makes it all much easier than my previous tow vehicle that had no camera.[/quote][font size="3"]I would think a calibrated stick, i.e. a yard stick or meter stick depending, to the ground might be more accurate than the level. You'd have to measure when the truck was just at the unloaded height. And yes, the Tacoma rear view camera is awesome. [/font]
If you have a bent coupler on a 21 or 28 Camplite Travel Trailer please contact me with your VIN number.
Quote from: @djmiller" source="/post/24139/thread" timestamp="1472131777If you have a bent coupler on a 21 or 28 Camplite Travel Trailer please contact me with your VIN number.
I just sent you a private message.
T.J. Purdy
[quote timestamp="1472133012" author="@purdytj" source="/post/24140/thread"][quote source="/post/24139/thread" author="@djmiller" timestamp="1472131777"]If you have a bent coupler on a 21 or 28 Camplite Travel Trailer please contact me with your VIN number. [/quote]
I just sent you a private message.
T.J. Purdy[/quote]Same here, private message.