I have declined an extended warranty after some Campliters told me that any problems would show up on delivery. After correcting those problems, Camplites are so well built that there won't be anything wrong after that.
I am wondering what percentage of Camplites has warranty problems as they exit the factory.
[font size="3"]I generally opt out of extended warranties. They are basically insurance policies stacked in favor of the issuing company. But like any other self insurance you have to be prepared for the occasional out of pocket expense. Over the long haul you'll be money ahead.
I have had only four warranty issues. Two, a loose wire on an AC socket, and window latches that did not engage, I fixed because I could and they were cheap. Another was a gray water venting problem that I thought could involve removing the gray tank. I took it to Camping World and they fixed it under warranty coverage from LL. The problem turned out to be a sewer vent under the kitchen sink. They replaced it and all is fine. The most recent problem was the failure of the microwave oven. LL emailed the forms and The Collins Company replaced the microwave with no questions asked. No shipping the old one back for evaluation. I just mailed the power cord and the serial number tag back at their expense. I reinstalled the oven myself and it seems to be fine. Time will tell.
[/font]
I agree with Charlie. The only time I buy warranties (insurance) these days is for my smartphone. Never had to use it, but I've had enough close calls that I feel it's worth it for the first year at least.
I can give a little insight to the extended warranty. You are right that the factory will cover just about everything for the first year. However, even though the construction of the camplite is about indestructible, the components are not. Fridge, AC, Water heater, etc. These items do break and it is no fault of Livin Lite. It is covered for the first year, but after the first year, you're on your own. This is where the warranty can be helpful. The fridge is about $1800, AC unit about $950, Water heater, $700, etc. These would have to be paid out of pocket. The warranty company usually cost about the same as one of these repairs.
Most people finance the cost of warranty into the purchase. It usually adds $15 a month or so to the loan. The odds are definitely in favor of the warranty company. That's why they're in business. However, they do pay out for repairs. Just like insurance companies on your house, car, etc.
It's not for everyone, but it is a valuable tool to many people.
I never buy extended warranties. Have not for my entire adult life.
The logic, as espoused by Consumer Reports, is that for the most part components fail for two primary reasons:
1) Manufacturing defects (also known as infant mortality)
2) Wear
The first tend to occur within the manufacturers's warranty period.
The second tend to occur outside of the scope of most extended warranties, and policies may even have exclusions for common wear items - like brake pads or even seals.
So, extended warranties generally cover you for the time period you're least likely to need it.
Certainly there are myriad "extended warranty success stories" where the purchaser came out way ahead. But statistically those must be in the minority, or the extended warranty companies could not stay in business.
I figure over my life I have probably saved $10k or even more (probably much more all told) by never buying extended warranties. So if and when my horror story occurs, I'm still ahead money in the bank.
I guess the one time it makes sense is if one could not afford a major repair, but could afford the extended warranty premium. That's what insurance is for - to protect against losses not easily handled without it. I don't think that's most of us here.
I personally would rather take the money I would have spent on a warranty and put it away. In essence I'd rather self insure vs giving the risk to someone else. Especially when you consider that the risk is rather low that a pay out will be needed. I feel like an extended warranty is really just a mental comfort, and its easy to rationalize an extra $10 or $20 per payment when you are already dropping a good amount of money on an RV.
My last experience with an extended warranty did not end well. I had purchased a new lawn tractor from Lowes. It was a decent model and from a trusted brand but I went ahead and added the extended warranty (aka service plan) into the finance cost. After the first year it started to lose power and eventually failed to start. I was rather happy at that point that I had the coverage since I didn't count on having to get service done on the tractor in only one year. I called the company and they arranged for someone to pick it up and diagnose the problem. They knew what they were doing because they expressly said user negligence and fuel related issues were not covered. I figured since I had been using the tractor throughout the winter it couldn't be fuel and I expressly said I wanted to be contacted prior to any work done so I didn't worry about that exclusion. To make a long story short, I don't hear from the repair shop for three weeks, then when pressed I'm told its ready and I owe almost two hundred dollars because they claimed it was bad gas. The repair shop help my property hostage after doing unauthorized repairs and the warranty company washed their hands of it saying it was fuel related. It was a mess and everyone involved kept passing the blame to someone else. In short even if a extended warranty provides some piece of mind, it often ends up being more of a headache than its worth.
-Sean
I created a thread on another approach to a warranty that created similar concerns as in this thread:
http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/267/warranty
Essentially, the argument was that the preventative services that needed to be performed to keep the warranty alive were too expensive as they had to be done by a licensed service center. In my case, I have access to one that does not rip me off so I will be doing it.
[quote source="/post/2226/thread" timestamp="1406900404" author="@admin"]My last experience with an extended warranty did not end well.
-Sean[/quote][font size="3"]This is not related to warranty, but to bad gas. I have a Honda generator built around 1995. It got to the point where every year I had to take it to the shop because it wouldn't start. Every year it was the same answer: bad gas, even though I put fresh stabilizer in the gas each year. Eventually I had to pay for a completely new carburetor because it was clogged. After reading and talking to others I believe the culprit was and is Ethanol gas. I now keep a small amount of Ethanol free gas on hand and will stock up as hurricane season approaches. Even though the books say it's OK, I really believe small engines can not handle Ethanol. This is consistent with many locals with small engine equipment and boats.
I now return control of this thread to normally scheduled programming.
[/font]
[quote source="/post/2227/thread" timestamp="1406901674" author="@funpilot"]Essentially, the argument was that the preventative services that needed to be performed to keep the warranty alive were too expensive as they had to be done by a licensed service center.[/quote]Pretty sure that's illegal. I can come up with the name of the act that precludes it when I get home.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
Gotta love Google: [a href=""]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act[/a]
[quote source="/post/2229/thread" timestamp="1406911515" author="@fasteddieb"][quote source="/post/2227/thread" timestamp="1406901674" author="@funpilot"]Essentially, the argument was that the preventative services that needed to be performed to keep the warranty alive were too expensive as they had to be done by a licensed service center.[/quote]Pretty sure that's illegal. I can come up with the name of the act that precludes it when I get home.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
Gotta love Google: [a href=""]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act[/a] [/quote][p]I really hope you are right. Here is a link to the FAQs that state the requirement:[/p][p]
[/p][p][a href="http://www.rvwarrantyforever.com/Default.aspx?PageID=75"]http://www.rvwarrantyforever.com/Default.aspx?PageID=75[/a][/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/2230/thread" timestamp="1406912040" author="@funpilot"][quote source="/post/2229/thread" timestamp="1406911515" author="@fasteddieb"]Pretty sure that's illegal. I can come up with the name of the act that precludes it when I get home.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
Gotta love Google: [a href=""]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act[/a] [/quote][p]I really hope you are right. Here is a link to the FAQs that state the requirement:[/p][p]
[/p][p][a href="http://www.rvwarrantyforever.com/Default.aspx?PageID=75"]http://www.rvwarrantyforever.com/Default.aspx?PageID=75[/a][/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote]I wonder what it would take for my garage to become a "professional repair facility".
I actually asked that and they said the business must be licensed and have proof they are in the RV repair business. Does not have to be a dealer.
[quote source="/post/2232/thread" timestamp="1406912555" author="@funpilot"]I actually asked that and they said the business must be licensed and have proof they are in the RV repair business. Does not have to be a dealer. [/quote]So any business license would do?
[quote source="/post/2228/thread" timestamp="1406908560" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/2226/thread" timestamp="1406900404" author="@admin"]My last experience with an extended warranty did not end well.
-Sean[/quote][font size="3"]This is not related to warranty, but to bad gas. I have a Honda generator built around 1995. It got to the point where every year I had to take it to the shop because it wouldn't start. Every year it was the same answer: bad gas, even though I put fresh stabilizer in the gas each year. Eventually I had to pay for a completely new carburetor because it was clogged. After reading and talking to others I believe the culprit was and is Ethanol gas. I now keep a small amount of Ethanol free gas on hand and will stock up as hurricane season approaches. Even though the books say it's OK, I really believe small engines can not handle Ethanol. This is consistent with many locals with small engine equipment and boats.
I now return control of this thread to normally scheduled programming.
[/font][/quote][p]I dunno a lot about this, but I'm pretty sure I saw TWO kinds of stabilizer the last time I was in HD: one for ethanol gas and one for straight.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I run all my 2-strokes on premixed fuel, comes in a 2-quart can at HD. Has the right stabilizer and the correct oil mix ratio. Spendy, but I go through so little of it that I don't care. I've taken cans that have sat in my garage for 2 years and works fine. I've let it sit in the chainsaw over the winter, starts right up.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The only 4 strokes I have other than the cars are a riding lawn mower and a generator. I run the generator dry after use, and I keep 5 gallons of gas station gas on hand for the lawn mower, that I can throw in the generator in an emergency. If I haven't used it in 60-90 days, I top off the lawn mower and cars, then replace. So I always have fresh for that.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I don't trust myself to mix the correct ratios of stabilizer and risk letting it sit in an engine. I mean, its easy to mix, but I'd rather just use my scheme of always fresh and avoid the problem altogether.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/2233/thread" timestamp="1406912668" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/2232/thread" timestamp="1406912555" author="@funpilot"]I actually asked that and they said the business must be licensed and have proof they are in the RV repair business. Does not have to be a dealer. [/quote]So any business license would do?[/quote]I would just call them and ask. Remember, it has to come from a dealer that paid for this coverage. I do know it applies to both new and used RVs/trailers, just that it had to come from a participating dealer. You do not have to go back to them to get the service.
[quote source="/post/2235/thread" timestamp="1406916290" author="@funpilot"]I would just call them and ask. Remember, it has to come from a dealer that paid for this coverage. I do know it applies to both new and used RVs/trailers, just that it had to come from a participating dealer. You do not have to go back to them to get the service.
[/quote]Mine came with it, but I had no intention of sending in the paperwork each year since I do all my own work. If I could somehow qualify as a licensed facility I would do it.
[quote source="/post/2234/thread" timestamp="1406915987" author="@pinstriper"][p]I run all my 2-strokes on premixed fuel, comes in a 2-quart can at HD. Has the right stabilizer and the correct oil mix ratio. Spendy, but I go through so little of it that I don't care. I've taken cans that have sat in my garage for 2 years and works fine. I've let it sit in the chainsaw over the winter, starts right up.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The only 4 strokes I have other than the cars are a riding lawn mower and a generator. I run the generator dry after use, and I keep 5 gallons of gas station gas on hand for the lawn mower, that I can throw in the generator in an emergency. If I haven't used it in 60-90 days, I top off the lawn mower and cars, then replace. So I always have fresh for that.[/p][/quote][font size="3"]Fresh gas and running dry can certainly help, but I think there is still a basic problem with the ethanol. Ethanol attacks the rubber parts of the fuel system and stabilizer does nothing for that. Maybe the newer engines have compensated for this like cars have. Remember my genny is 20 years old. However, I was always cussing the small gas engines my other toys so now my chainsaw is battery powered and the tiller is electric. The only small gas engines I have are the genny and a brush eater.
[/font]
I don't buy extended warranties. Needed parts after we purchased the camper during the first year. Called Don at LL service and he shipped what I needed. Told him I would install the parts, saved them the dealer bill and was easy for me to install.
As far as gas goes, ride my motorcycles every 1 to 2 weeks getting them up to normal operating temps and don't have fuel issues. Putting a carburetor back together today after cleaning, installing new gaskets, vacuum lines, and float valves for my wife's bike. Turning her bike into a Cafe racer, thought it would be a good idea to refresh the carb, too. The Yamaha 2400 iSHC gen set has a fuel valve and the last time I run it before storage, turn the gas off and let it run out of fuel. No issues with the Yamaha gen set, yet.
Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act
The site is acting weird for me, and not letting me post links.
Easy to Google the above.
In general, to my understanding, if a manufacturer mandates factory parts be used to maintain a warranty, they must provide them for free.
Similarly, they cannot mandate dealer service and charge for it.
"Magnuson-Moss prohibits companies from including tie-in sales provisions in its warranties. In other words, the company cannot state that owners of product X must use only product X accessories or have the product serviced at specific locations. However, companies can void a warranty if the consumer has it serviced or repaired inappropriately or incorrectly. Moreover, if the company can prove to the FTC that its products must be serviced or maintained through tie-in services, the FTC may waive this requirement. - See more at: http://consumerprotection.uslegal.com/warranties/magnuson-moss-warranty-act/#sthash.CiQHdYB5.dpuf"
[quote source="/post/2239/thread" timestamp="1406925179" author="@fasteddieb"]
Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act
The site is acting weird for me, and not letting me post links.
Easy to Google the above.
In general, to my understanding, if a manufacturer mandates factory parts be used to maintain a warranty, they must provide them for free.
Similarly, they cannot mandate dealer service and charge for it.
"Magnuson-Moss prohibits companies from including tie-in sales provisions in its warranties. In other words, the company cannot state that owners of product X must use only product X accessories or have the product serviced at specific locations. However, companies can void a warranty if the consumer has it serviced or repaired inappropriately or incorrectly. Moreover, if the company can prove to the FTC that its products must be serviced or maintained through tie-in services, the FTC may waive this requirement. - See more at: http://consumerprotection.uslegal.com/warranties/magnuson-moss-warranty-act/#sthash.CiQHdYB5.dpuf"[/quote]This is very interesting, but I think what they're doing is still legal because of that last line:
QuoteMoreover, if the company can prove to the FTC that its products must be serviced or maintained through tie-in services, the FTC may waive this requirement.
It sounds like if they've shown that RV's have to be maintained at RV shop then they can still do it...
[quote source="/post/2240/thread" timestamp="1406926875" author="@tinkeringtechie"]It sounds like if they've shown that RV's have to be maintained at RV shop then they can still do it...
[/quote]It could be they jumped through all the legal hoops, but color me skeptical.
[quote source="/post/2237/thread" timestamp="1406916892" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/2234/thread" timestamp="1406915987" author="@pinstriper"][p]I run all my 2-strokes on premixed fuel, comes in a 2-quart can at HD. Has the right stabilizer and the correct oil mix ratio. Spendy, but I go through so little of it that I don't care. I've taken cans that have sat in my garage for 2 years and works fine. I've let it sit in the chainsaw over the winter, starts right up.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The only 4 strokes I have other than the cars are a riding lawn mower and a generator. I run the generator dry after use, and I keep 5 gallons of gas station gas on hand for the lawn mower, that I can throw in the generator in an emergency. If I haven't used it in 60-90 days, I top off the lawn mower and cars, then replace. So I always have fresh for that.[/p][/quote][font size="3"]Fresh gas and running dry can certainly help, but I think there is still a basic problem with the ethanol. Ethanol attacks the rubber parts of the fuel system and stabilizer does nothing for that. Maybe the newer engines have compensated for this like cars have. Remember my genny is 20 years old. However, I was always cussing the small gas engines my other toys so now my chainsaw is battery powered and the tiller is electric. The only small gas engines I have are the genny and a brush eater.
[/font][/quote][p]Funny you should mention battery powered chainsaws.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I have long been in love with the Ryobi One+ tools. I've remodeled three bathrooms and a finished basement with them, and they don't owe me a thing.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I probably have every 18v tool made, except for maybe two.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The 18v chainsaw works, for maybe a dozen cuts. Great if you lose one limb in your driveway, wanna deal with it fast, not worry about wrestling the gas saw into running, and also running it dry when you're done. Or to replace a single fence post. Very handy. But that's it. The battery doesn't last.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I recently popped for one of their new 40v tools (they also have a 24v line, but I say if you're gonna dream, dream in color, I says)[/p][p]
[/p][p]This is an awesome saw ! I took down a moderate sized fruit tree, and disassembled it into firewood. About an hour of solid cutting. Used two batteries to do it. That's a great battery powered chainsaw experience. The trunk was about 15" diameter. Yielded about 1/3 cord.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The only 40v tools are a leaf blower, hedge clipper, string trimmer, and the chainsaw. Oh, I think they make a push lawnmower, too. I have the chainsaw, the string trimmer, and three batteries. So far.[/p][p]
[/p]
[p]The lawyer in me says that the operative phrase is "or have the product serviced at specific locations." They are not limiting it to locations rather than setting a standard for the required services. Also, the tie-in sales language usually means that the company has a financial gain through the tie-in, which is clearly not the case here. So, IMHO, we lose here. [/p][p]
[/p][p]As to battery powered items, we have a 40 volt hedge trimmer....AWESOME.[/p]
[quote source="/post/2241/thread" timestamp="1406941686" author="@fasteddieb"]It could be they jumped through all the legal hoops, but color me skeptical.[/quote][font size="3"]You look good in skeptical. Sort of a blue/green hue. :-S[/font]
[quote source="/post/2250/thread" timestamp="1406982447" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/2241/thread" timestamp="1406941686" author="@fasteddieb"]It could be they jumped through all the legal hoops, but color me skeptical.[/quote][font size="3"]You look good in skeptical. Sort of a blue/green hue. :-S[/font]
[/quote]You got it. Dora said it was my aura!
[quote source="/post/2242/thread" timestamp="1406946685" author="@pinstriper"][p]Funny you should mention battery powered chainsaws.[/p][p]
[/p][/quote]Yep, I'm a believer in small battery tools. Lithium Ion batteries make it possible. My saw is the Stihl 12" bar with 36 Volt 4.5AH battery. I love it. Can do one handed from a ladder. I gave up my 20" Stihl gas and never looked back. I just upgraded to the 20V DeWalt drill and their 20V impact driver. The driver goes on every camping trip for the stabilizers.
[quote source="/post/2253/thread" timestamp="1406983168" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/2242/thread" timestamp="1406946685" author="@pinstriper"][p]Funny you should mention battery powered chainsaws.[/p][p]
[/p][/quote]Yep, I'm a believer in small battery tools. Lithium Ion batteries make it possible. My saw is the Stihl 12" bar with 36 Volt 4.5AH battery. I love it. Can do one handed from a ladder. I gave up my 20" Stihl gas and never looked back. I just upgraded to the 20V DeWalt drill and their 20V impact driver. The driver goes on every camping trip for the stabilizers.
[/quote]I gave up on my electric chainsaw because it was slow and not very powerful (maybe it was a crappy one). What I replaced it with is magic though: cordless Milwaukee sawzall. I can put a 9" pruning blade in there and cut through wood like butter. The blade kerf is so thin that it doesn't have to remove nearly as much material as a chainsaw. The best part is no sharpening. The blades pop out with the flip of a switch and only cost a couple bucks each. When I'm done pruning I can put a hacksaw blade in there a cut some metal pipe... try that with a chainsaw.
[quote source="/post/2258/thread" timestamp="1406986068" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/2253/thread" timestamp="1406983168" author="@charliem"]Yep, I'm a believer in small battery tools. Lithium Ion batteries make it possible. My saw is the Stihl 12" bar with 36 Volt 4.5AH battery. I love it. Can do one handed from a ladder. I gave up my 20" Stihl gas and never looked back. I just upgraded to the 20V DeWalt drill and their 20V impact driver. The driver goes on every camping trip for the stabilizers.
[/quote]I gave up on my electric chainsaw because it was slow and not very powerful (maybe it was a crappy one). What I replaced it with is magic though: cordless Milwaukee sawzall. I can put a 9" pruning blade in there and cut through wood like butter. The blade kerf is so thin that it doesn't have to remove nearly as much material as a chainsaw. The best part is no sharpening. The blades pop out with the flip of a switch and only cost a couple bucks each. When I'm done pruning I can put a hacksaw blade in there a cut some metal pipe... try that with a chainsaw. [/quote]I use my One+ sawzall that way, too. Battery lasted way long. But can be quite slow on large stuff. I also have the pruning saw - a sawzall on an extendible pole.
[quote source="/post/2258/thread" timestamp="1406986068" author="@tinkeringtechie"] When I'm done pruning I can put a hacksaw blade in there a cut some metal pipe... try that with a chainsaw. [/quote][font size="3"]Tried that. Doesn't work. [/font]:D :D
I purchased an extended warranty on my 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee - bumper-to-bumper for as long as I own it, excepting tires, brakes, and oil changes. This is the first extended warranty I have purchased in over 20 years. In the 90's hubby and I bought a new Sears Craftsman riding mower. Sounds like quality, right? That first summer, the mower spent more time with its pieces spread across the lawn as the Sears technicians tried to keep it going, than it did cutting the grass. The second summer, the one year warranty was up, and Sears offered us an extended warranty for one year that cost half of what we paid for the new mower. The warranty only covered parts, and we would have to pay for labor. We turned it down.
It didn't run any better the second year. We asked the store manager to help us, as it was a defective unit. He said it was between us and Sears. I eventually gave it to a neighbor who was an auto mechanic. He couldn't get it running, so he took it to work and hooked it up to a diagnostic computer. It turns out the pistons were the wrong size for the engine. That thing was never going to run.
Since then, I have avoided extended warranties until it came to the new Jeep. As this will be the tow vehicle, and it has a factory-installed tow package, I made an exception.