[p]As a starting point, I found these two attached general check lists.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I would add:[/p][p]Check your personal list of factory added options[/p][p]Are tires on a recall list?[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]What would you add or delete? If there is interest to this, there are clearly very skilled contributors here to take the lead on this, so please step up if you want to. [/p][p]
[/p]
I am about ready to place an order for a Camplite 21-BHS. I would be very interested to see what present Campliters say needs to be on this checklist.
I just glanced through the list and it looks pretty thorough. A bit TOO thorough actually... It would take quite a long time to go through all of this. But if you have the time and patience, it would help a lot with catching all issues before you leave the dealer.
My take as well. Are you bored enough to come up with a more practical list for our products? One other use for this check list could be to share it with LL folks as I am sure if we all actually get involved, it could be the basis for them to know what they are missing that we find later. That way, they can do it right the first time...
I think it might be useful to come up with a list of issues that are more likely with LL vs other manufacturers. Here's the first thing that was on my list:
Check the fit and function of every door and window. That means all cabinets, storage compartments, main door, screen door.
Because of the tight tolerances and relatively custom nature of the doors, there's a greater chance they might not line up perfectly and it's not easy (sometimes impossible) to adjust. If there's some caulking missing or something is loose it's very easy to fix, but a stuck door could possibly need to be replaced entirely. They probably won't have spares at the dealer, but make sure it's noted so they can order it for you.
Another thing that I missed at the PDI that I fixed myself was the hinge/support for the counter extension. It didn't fold all the way down at the dealer and I didn't think anything of it, but on further inspection at home one of the brackets was crooked. It was pretty easy to fix, but should have been caught at the dealer.
[quote source="/post/2114/thread" timestamp="1406052416" author="@tinkeringtechie"]I think it might be useful to come up with a list of issues that are more likely with LL vs other manufacturers. Here's the first thing that was on my list:
Check the fit and function of every door and window. That means all cabinets, storage compartments, main door, screen door.
Because of the tight tolerances and relatively custom nature of the doors, there's a greater chance they might not line up perfectly and it's not easy (sometimes impossible) to adjust. If there's some caulking missing or something is loose it's very easy to fix, but a stuck door could possibly need to be replaced entirely. They probably won't have spares at the dealer, but make sure it's noted so they can order it for you.
Another thing that I missed at the PDI that I fixed myself was the hinge/support for the counter extension. It didn't fold all the way down at the dealer and I didn't think anything of it, but on further inspection at home one of the brackets was crooked. It was pretty easy to fix, but should have been caught at the dealer.[/quote][p]Ok, I went through and tried to catalogue the issues on the campers from what was posted in the forums. I know nothing about those with tents so please fee free to add those to the list plus items I missed. Remember, this is for a pre-purchase inspection, not for repairs after you have used it. [/p][p]
[/p][p]1. Check door for seal issues, check non-moving plastic piece for bowing/fit issues.
2. Check opening of door to be sure that it does not tear awning when it is opened and that awning retraction bar does not go over a window.
3. Check windows to see that they are level, seals are ok and spray with hose to check for water tightness.
4. Check wood trim around slide out inside the trailer.
5. Check outside seals in slide out and spray water on leading edge to check for leakage
6. Check tv booster switch to see if it is properly wired and check tv for tilting and picture
7. Check shower to see if it leaks off the edges to the floor
8. Fill tanks, check water heater with propane, electric, both and test
9. Check all plumbing fixtures to be sure they are tight.
10. Check sofa bed support, open and close it several time and sit on it to be sure all is well.
11. Check refrigerator on shore power and electric. Have them start it the day before.
12. Check stove light
13. Check black water restraint strap.
14. Check tires for recall and blemishes
15. Check all windows and cabinet latches for operation.
16. Check all seams for caulking issues, whether the black weather stripping is missing, and use a hose to test on roof and sides.
17. Check countertop laminate
18. Ask if there is a way to use sacrificial zinc on the trailer
19. Check trailer light wiring.
20. Check vent cover for holes and caulking.
21. Check deadbolt lock for sticking.
[/p]
Ahh, I see I missed 1 of Tinkers items:
22. Check hinge support on counter extension.
Excellent list. I have been making my own list, but I am not as far along with it as funpilot. I have 3 things on my list so far that I don't see here.
I plan to run my fingers around windows, doors, and seams to see if things are installed and caulked properly.
I plan to lie down on my back on the ground to look underneath the camper for loose wires, or for anything else that might look out of place.
Inside my camper, raise all of the privacy shades and check to see if any daylight comes in from around doors, windows, etc.
[quote source="/post/2781/thread" timestamp="1408475858" author="@leslie"]Excellent list. I have been making my own list, but I am not as far along with it as funpilot. I have 3 things on my list so far that I don't see here.
I plan to run my fingers around windows, doors, and seams to see if things are installed and caulked properly.
I plan to lie down on my back on the ground to look underneath the camper for loose wires, or for anything else that might look out of place.
Inside my camper, raise all of the privacy shades and check to see if any daylight comes in from around doors, windows, etc.[/quote]I have updated the check list based on recent feedback and have it as a word document link.
Quote from: @funpilot" source="/post/2932/thread" timestamp="1408983357[quote source="/post/2781/thread" timestamp="1408475858" author="@leslie"]Excellent list. I have been making my own list, but I am not as far along with it as funpilot. I have 3 things on my list so far that I don't see here.
I plan to run my fingers around windows, doors, and seams to see if things are installed and caulked properly.
I plan to lie down on my back on the ground to look underneath the camper for loose wires, or for anything else that might look out of place.
Inside my camper, raise all of the privacy shades and check to see if any daylight comes in from around doors, windows, etc.
I have updated the check list based on recent feedback and have it as a word document link.
[/quote]
If you want to keep this updated as needed I think this is sticky worthy. Thoughts?
[quote source="/post/2933/thread" timestamp="1408990219" author="@admin"]
[quote source="/post/2932/thread" timestamp="1408983357" author="@funpilot"]
I have updated the check list based on recent feedback and have it as a word document link.
[/quote]
If you want to keep this updated as needed I think this is sticky worthy. Thoughts?
[/quote]
Sounds like a good idea.
Edit: Done. If need be, we can remove it, but this is a pretty critical point with a camper, so I agree it is good to keep at the top.
Will be adding "Check cable picture quality on TV" in next update based on recent posts.
[quote source="/post/2110/thread" timestamp="1406048725" author="@tinkeringtechie"]I just glanced through the list and it looks pretty thorough. A bit TOO thorough actually... It would take quite a long time to go through all of this. But if you have the time and patience, it would help a lot with catching all issues before you leave the dealer.[/quote][p]I agree about this being too thorough for a PDI. You aren't getting a tech for 4 hours.[/p][p]
[/p][p]But it is an excellent list of things to be checked right away, before or during your first shakedown cruise, even if that only takes place in your driveway.[/p][p]
[/p][p]For those that are real far away from their dealer, I would say book a campground real nearby or just find a big box store parking lot near the dealer for your shakedown. This way you can return it right away to the dealer for repair.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Be advised, repairs requiring parts will likely take several weeks before LL gets the part sent, then you have freight time before your dealer even has the opportunity to make the fix. Not everything that is found needs to be fixed before you can use the rig, so if you are like us and picked up during camping season, decide for each one whether you need it fixed right away or whether you can take and use the unit while waiting for parts to show up.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]
I bring one burden to this particular thread and that is that I am also an attorney. So, my purchasing paranoia may be higher than normal.
Pin, I think Tink was referring to the initial extensive list I first posted that I downloaded from another website. Believe it or not, the Word document is MUCH shorter and it is suppose to be a list of stuff posters here have actually experienced as problems (thus need to be checked), but that does not mean I have not created too long a one anyway.
In my case though, if I have not checked out what is reasonable to do before signing off, I will not accept delivery until I am able to do so. I have sent this list to the dealer to see their response so will let you know how they feel. For example, I would be quite comfortable with them saying "they will do these items and that I have to do the other ones" so long as there is a way to test it at the dealership. So, if they cannot give me the ability to plug into shore power to check items associated with that, I go home as I will not accept it with not being able to do that. (I know that will not be the case, but only easy example I could think of.)
The dealer has already suggested that I use the nearby KOA for the stuff one can only find when you actually use it. For me there is a difference between fixing a simple thing and accepting a poor quality product. I would not accept some of the issues members here have posted on if I spot them in the inspection phase. I can only hope that with all the direct contact I have had with LL, they already know how fussy I can be and have smartly made sure things should be fine. Rest assured, I will let everyone know if that is not the case.
As for how long repairs can take, I do agree with your experience. It is precisely for that reason, I do not want to close the deal until all known upfront issues that need to be fixed are as the only leverage I have is that I have not yet paid for it. The longer they take, the longer they do not get paid.
I might add to check for the spare tire. Our first Camplite had none. Two years later we upgraded to a 16 RDB with larger wheels (15 inch) and after closer inspection the spare was 14 inches. The dealer had the correct tire delivered to our home from Livin Lite.
We recently completed the maiden voyage with our new 14DB: a two-night stay at a full-hookup campground at the beach. We were able to test just about every aspect of the trailer, so you might want to consider checking for the issues we discovered. Here's what I would suggest:
1. Check that the outside cargo doors open and close easily, and inspect seals to make sure they are not torn.
2. Check interior lighting and switches. Tap gently on light fixtures and main wall switch while looking for any flickering or dimming of the lights.
3. Connect to shore power and check that all electrical appliances using it are powered, including main battery charging.
4. Ask the dealer to check the adjustment of all the brakes and confirm brake wiring - or have dealer affirm that this has already been done.
5. Check that the toilet seals so that the bowl holds water - if no water is supplied to the unit use a cup of water to test.
6. Carefully inspect any after-market work performed by the dealer to confirm it was done per manufacturer's directions.
OK, going to pick my trailer up in a couple weeks. Checking this thread out, it is a bit much, the list is too large. I think some of these may be a bit over the top. So, what is actually necessary?
- Fit and function of all moving parts, doors, sofa, fans, bed, slide etc.
- Undercarriage inspection
- Functionality of lights, inside and out
- all documentation
- check burners, microwave, AC, refrigerator, on/off, and water heater(if water is available). I am not waiting for hot water with multi function system I can check for electric with multimeter and see the burner ignites, again if there is water.
- check tires, obviously you can't foresee a recall, but 5 minutes on a smart phone and you know if the tires have been recalled. More importantly you need to look at the manufacture date code on the tire.
- check for existing leaks
If there are problems, I have to find a way to resolve them or not purchase. I can't realistically drive to and from Iowa, from Kentucky, multiple times; it is 7.5 hours one way. Minor things will be handled by me(i.e. lose plumbing connections), major things will be worked out one way or another.
Maybe I am looking at this all wrong, maybe it should be a fine tooth comb inspection, maybe it should take hours. Who actually spends the time to get financing, insurance and in this case out of state registration completed just to cancel the purchase at the last second because there is no water to test the hot water heater?
Thanks
[font size="3"]Tincan,
That's a tough one. You have to balance common sense with due diligence. Rumor tells me you're an ME, so I have confidence in your innate ability :P Consider these:
[ol type="decimal"][li][font size="3"]Did you order a new build from the factory or has the unit been sitting on a dealer's lot? If sitting, any water leak
problems may have developed secondary consequences. Thank goodness for aluminum.
[/font][/li][li]Most items can be seen by normal visual inspection. Watch for water damage on inside walls. As for under the trailer inspection, unless something is falling off you probably won't catch it.[/li][li]Tires are always an issue. Take the time to understand where/how tires are date coded. Then check the date codes. I'd be concerned if they were a year or more old.[/li][li]To the extent possible check the functionality of major appliances. Try for a water hookup and some water in FW tank. Be sure to mostly empty the FW tank before leaving. KY has plenty of water; no need to haul the weight. Test faucets, pump, all lights, microwave, stove top, furnace, A/C. [font size="3"]Most of these should be demonstrated by the dealer on walk through. [/font]Your check of the fridge will be limited to lights on the control panel and the interior light. Actual cooling will be TBD.
[/li][li]Water heater will be mostly TBD, but you've got that covered.[/li][li]Look for any obvious counter top/back splash delamination. Some have had trouble. Your call as to when/how/where to fix.
[/li][li]When you get home check for gray water vent problems.
Scan our posts for details. Impractical on a dealer's lot, but
definitely before you spend many nights out.[/li][li]If you plan a WDH consider adding the side bolts to the ball coupler. Details on this forum.
[/li][li][font size="3"]How close is your nearest Camping World? With the
scarcity of CL dealers, LL has been very receptive to having warranty
work done by CWs. Also maybe other Thor dealers in your area. The
important point is a well equipped shop.[/font][/li][/ol]
[/font]
As helpful as the checklists can be, finding every issue during a PDI is unrealistic. I scoured this forum, took notes, and when we picked up up the unit our dealer actually did spend over four hours with us demonstrating and testing each component (talk about a dealer going above and beyond - thanks D&H RV Center!). Yet only one of the six defects found thus far was identified at that PDI. The others were found after towing the camper home, and still more when we took it on the first overnight trip to a full-hookup RV park. Not everyone is so lucky as to have a good LL dealer located 10-minutes from their front door, but for those who have the option of saving hundreds on the sales price, or purchasing from a reputable dealer located closer to home, I think they are likely to be happier with the latter choice.
Charles in NC has an excellent point. Whether or not people use a dealer close to them, I think it is a good idea to camp out somewhere close to the dealer to try out all the systems and start to get comfortable with the new camper. That way, if you find something that needs work, or if you just forget how to do something, you can get right back to the dealer.
ME (Mechanical Engineer) as charged. I am pretty handy with wood and metal, I almost have a full wood shop in my garage and I work with stainless tool fabrication at work. I have spent some time working plastics as well, and as a cabinet maker/installer.
Trailer is an early 2015 production model; which means made in 2014, no painted exterior trim and the XL package from then was different than now.
- Tires are a concern, and obviously leaks.
- Extra bolt will have to wait, this I can easily do at home, dealer might I can ask, but I would not be surprised to have them say no.
Closest dealer is 2.5 hours and closest CW about 2 hours.
CharlieM, your point about common sense and due diligence is true. I will be dragging a friend along, someone with a fair amount of knowledge. He will be a big help. If I do my part, and am satisfied, then anything else can be dealt with as it is found.
Charlie in NC, yes closer would be better, but at this point, my closest dealer will not have a camper until September, too late to camp much this year. kudos to your dealer for such a thorough inspection and demonstration.
Thanks for your help all.
Tire date code and decoding is simple for those of you who want to know:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11
This link from tire rack clearly explains the date code system in place from 2000 on.
Happy tire inspection all!
[quote source="/post/2107/thread" timestamp="1406034712" author="@funpilot"][p]As a starting point, I found these two attached general check lists.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I would add:[/p][p]Check your personal list of factory added options[/p][p]Are tires on a recall list?[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]What would you add or delete? If there is interest to this, there are clearly very skilled contributors here to take the lead on this, so please step up if you want to. [/p][p]
[/p][/quote]
[quote timestamp="1429213473" author="@charlesscharlau" source="/post/9441/thread"]We recently completed the maiden voyage with our new 14DB: a two-night stay at a full-hookup campground at the beach. We were able to test just about every aspect of the trailer, so you might want to consider checking for the issues we discovered. Here's what I would suggest:
1. Check that the outside cargo doors open and close easily, and inspect seals to make sure they are not torn.
2. Check interior lighting and switches. Tap gently on light fixtures and main wall switch while looking for any flickering or dimming of the lights.
3. Connect to shore power and check that all electrical appliances using it are powered, including main battery charging.
4. Ask the dealer to check the adjustment of all the brakes and confirm brake wiring - or have dealer affirm that this has already been done.
5. Check that the toilet seals so that the bowl holds water - if no water is supplied to the unit use a cup of water to test.
6. Carefully inspect any after-market work performed by the dealer to confirm it was done per manufacturer's directions.[/quote]
Sorry I do not think I am doing this site correctly. Can anyone tell me if there is a facebook group for livin lite we are interested in either the the 11fk or the next up with bunk beds.