Greetings all,
I am considering buying a 2016 Camplite 21BHS from Sunny Island RV in Rockford, IL. I am buying it new and it will be my first RV purchase. We are long time tent campers and looking to move to the RV life. We have two, young children and a dog, so it just seems like the perfect size for us.
I have read about Thor buying LivinLite and changes in quality, etc. I would appreciate any information that you all may have regarding this as well as opinions about:
1. Your experience with the 21BHS.
2. buying/service experience with Sunny Island RV. It seems that many members have bought from them.
I am slightly suspect about a 2016 model still being available on their lot and wonder why it has not sold, but perhaps it will lead to a good deal.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and opinions!!
Dan
I cannot help you with #1 &2. We bought from Harolds in PA and had it built for us. If you do order one built from the factory here is a couple of options I recommend:
- Decal Delete
- 4x4 rear bumper for a attaching a bike rack.
- Off Road Package (Keeps you from scraping)
- Fantasitic Fans
- Back Flush Kit built in (Might be standard now)
- Hot Water tank By Pass (Might be standard now)
[quote source="/post/25712/thread" author="@charleschapman" timestamp="1478360296"]I cannot help you with #1 &2. We bought from Harolds in PA and had it built for us. If you do order one built from the factory here is a couple of options I recommend:
- Decal Delete
- 4x4 rear bumper for a attaching a bike rack.
- Off Road Package (Keeps you from scraping)
- Fantasitic Fans
- Back Flush Kit built in (Might be standard now)
- Hot Water tank By Pass (Might be standard now) [/quote]Thank you, good advice and things to ask when I go look at this TT.
Dan,
I bought my 16TBS from Sunny Island in Feb 2016. I was very happy with the experience. Their service manager (Steve) is awesome - you will deal with him when you pick up the unit. I had him do the coupler mod (install side bolts for the coupler - you can read about that in another thread) when we picked up the unit and he even fixed a faulty air coil installation on my tow vehicle that I had installed elsewhere. On the way home, the lid on the propane cover blew off in a storm. Steve mailed out a replacement - no questions asked.
[quote source="/post/25716/thread" author="@dan" timestamp="1478361727"]Dan,
I bought my 16TBS from Sunny Island in Feb 2016. I was very happy with the experience. Their service manager (Steve) is awesome - you will deal with him when you pick up the unit. I had him do the coupler mod (install side bolts for the coupler - you can read about that in another thread) when we picked up the unit and he even fixed a faulty air coil installation on my tow vehicle that I had installed elsewhere. On the way home, the lid on the propane cover blew off in a storm. Steve mailed out a replacement - no questions asked.[/quote]Thanks for the feedback! Is your TV a 4Runner with the V6 or V8?
It's a V-6. More than adequate for a 16TBS - plenty of power to accelerate up hill to pass trucks in the slow lane.
We love our 21 BHS. It's a great trailer and tows very nicely. I don't think that Thor has messed with the 21 footers very much, so you should be OK (other than perhaps yours will have a rubber roof rather than aluminum). I wouldn't worry about it being a 2016, as they probably just started making the next model year recently. I don't have experience with that dealership, but I know they sell a lot of CampLites, so it probably hasn't been sitting there very long. As previously mentioned by someone else, if you should decide to order one from the factory (through the dealer), then come back to this board and ask for suggestions before doing so, although there aren't too many things you can add on to a 21BHS anymore (most of it comes standard now), and I agree with the suggestions of the off-road package, fantastic fans, and the 4x4 bumper on the back.
Our 21BHS is a 2013. We've towed it from Florida, out to Arizona and Utah and up through Georgia to Tennessee. It has been excellent and is a very solid camper. While you may have problems at the beginning, think of them as teething issues, and remember you have a solid foundation. The only thing I would suggest is to read the thread about a few campers that seemed to come through with insufficient welds in the frames. There are some pictures in that thread and be sure to check them out prior to purchasing the camper.
[a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/post/25091/thread"]Here are the pictures[/a]
Sounds like the dealer is a good one, so that will be a help as well.
Good luck!
I can't say enough good things about Sunny Island RV. They have taken care of me from day one even though I'm almost a 1000 miles away.
They have done exactly what they said they would do for me each and every time. They are very honest people going over and above to take care of the customer.
Found my old want to have notes when we were shopping for our 16 TBS. Put this list together with the other fine folks on this site.
Livin Lite CAMPLITE 16TBS Trailer want to have items:
XL Living Package (Includes 13.5K BTU Low Profile Penguin A/C, Hi?Power Vortex Vents, SINGLE 20Lb LP Tanks w/Cover, Tank Monitor System, 12' Awning, Upgraded Leatherette Seating & Cushions, Wood Plank Vinyl Flooring)
Outside Shower connection might be standard
Deep Sink?
Solid Surface Countertop upgrade
Decal Delete
Hot water heater that is both Electric/Gas
Dual batteries consideration: two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series (GC2). - This adds tognue weight
Outside Stove LP Connections under canopy
Rear Deck
or
2" reciever hitch for bike rack (beefed up rear bumper. LL will beef up the standard bumper by adding a second 2"x4" tube to which you can attach any standard 2" receiver bike rack)
9.2 BTU Polar Cub Low profile AC (Runs on 2KW Generator)
Black Tank Flush Kit
64" Sofa/Bed with Dinette Trays IPO Dinette in Slide
Scissor Jacks
Convection Microwave
FanTastic Vent Fans with warranty & Covers?
Additional 12V outlets by the beds and somewhere near the dinette/Sofa are really useful for phones, pads, computers, etc.
Rear view camera or 12V TV power supply run for one.
Off Road Package?
No TV (Cheaper at Wally World) Will take the mount and Digial Antenna
[quote source="/post/25732/thread" author="@charleschapman" timestamp="1478445170"]Found my old want to have notes when we were shopping for our 16 TBS. Put this list together with the other fine folks on this site.
Livin Lite CAMPLITE 16TBS Trailer want to have items:
XL Living Package (Includes 13.5K BTU Low Profile Penguin A/C, Hi?Power Vortex Vents, SINGLE 20Lb LP Tanks w/Cover, Tank Monitor System, 12' Awning, Upgraded Leatherette Seating & Cushions, Wood Plank Vinyl Flooring)
Outside Shower connection might be standard
Deep Sink?
Solid Surface Countertop upgrade
Decal Delete
Hot water heater that is both Electric/Gas
Dual batteries consideration: two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series (GC2). - This adds tognue weight
Outside Stove LP Connections under canopy
Rear Deck
or
2" reciever hitch for bike rack (beefed up rear bumper. LL will beef up the standard bumper by adding a second 2"x4" tube to which you can attach any standard 2" receiver bike rack)
9.2 BTU Polar Cub Low profile AC (Runs on 2KW Generator)
Black Tank Flush Kit
64" Sofa/Bed with Dinette Trays IPO Dinette in Slide
Scissor Jacks
Convection Microwave
FanTastic Vent Fans with warranty & Covers?
Additional 12V outlets by the beds and somewhere near the dinette/Sofa are really useful for phones, pads, computers, etc.
Rear view camera or 12V TV power supply run for one.
Off Road Package?
No TV (Cheaper at Wally World) Will take the mount and Digial Antenna [/quote]Great list. I would only note that the 9.2 Polar Cub A/C in our 16TBS is more than obnoxiously loud, it is unacceptable inside and outside as it comes from the factory. The 64 inch sofa-bed is just ok as a sofa and does not work at all for a bed. And although it's not consensus, many on this site think the latest way LL is attaching an extra 2X4 to the rear bumper is not a safe way to enable using a clamp-on 2" receiver. I don't know how much LL is willing to customize anymore, so a good dealer becomes all the more important for help with mods.
Many thanks for all the replies. I appreciate and if I go with a 21bhs I will sure be back with more questions. I appreciate all of the info.
Quote from: @charleschapman" source="/post/25712/thread" timestamp="1478360296I cannot help you with #1 &2. We bought from Harolds in PA and had it built for us. If you do order one built from the factory here is a couple of options I recommend:
- Decal Delete
- 4x4 rear bumper for a attaching a bike rack.
- Off Road Package (Keeps you from scraping)
- Fantasitic Fans
- Back Flush Kit built in (Might be standard now)
- Hot Water tank By Pass (Might be standard now)
Regarding having a custom build, is this ordered through a LL dealer? I asked a question about having a custom build through the LL website and haven't heard back from them. What was your order-to-delivery time? Thanks
Yes ordered from a LL Dealer, Harolds in Bath PA but they are no longer a LL dealer.
I do not think does LL Factory sales direct.
We ordered in October, built in January and we took delivery in February.
[quote timestamp="1481253175" author="@pegwillen" source="/post/26320/thread"]Regarding having a custom build, is this ordered through a LL dealer? I asked a question about having a custom build through the LL website and haven't heard back from them. What was your order-to-delivery time? Thanks[/quote][font size="3"]It is our understanding that the factory is no longer accepting any requests for customization. Many requested items have become standard like the dual mode water heater and back flusher. The FanTastic fans may still be an option or one may be standard now. Unfortunately they have not [/font][font size="3"]adequately addressed the bent coupler problem and have not [/font][font size="3"]addressed the rear bumper at all. The coupler can be fixed with the simple addition of two bolts, but the enhanced rear bumper requires a qualified welding shop. If you don't plan to carry loads like bicycles on the rear bumper the factory installation is fine. If you do need bike carriage on the rear you should search for and read threads on this forum.
[/font]
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/26322/thread" timestamp="1481257629[quote timestamp="1481253175" source="/post/26320/thread" author="@pegwillen"]Regarding having a custom build, is this ordered through a LL dealer? I asked a question about having a custom build through the LL website and haven't heard back from them. What was your order-to-delivery time? Thanks
[font size="3"]It is our understanding that the factory is no longer accepting any requests for customization. Many requested items have become standard like the dual mode water heater and back flusher. The FanTastic fans may still be an option or one may be standard now. Unfortunately they have not [/font][font size="3"]adequately addressed the bent coupler problem and have not [/font][font size="3"]addressed the rear bumper at all. The coupler can be fixed with the simple addition of two bolts, but the enhanced rear bumper requires a qualified welding shop. If you don't plan to carry loads like bicycles on the rear bumper the factory installation is fine. If you do need bike carriage on the rear you should search for and read threads on this forum.
peqwillen,
We no longer offer custom builds. The coupler issue has been taken care. All A frame camplite travel trailers, (currently includes all but the 11fk as it does not use that particular coupler), are being built with the additional 2 bolts through the side. (changed aprox. 6 weeks ago). If you looking at a new unit on a dealer's lot that does not have the bolts added, ask them to add them and we will take care of it.
As far as the bumper. It was never designed to be used to support a hitch, which is how most of the bike racks attach. This issue is on on-going discussion in the development meetings but currently to install a hitch type bike rack a second 2x4x.125 tube would need to be properly added to the existing bumper. This may change... but if and until it does.... keep in mind this CURRENTLY IS NOT OFFICIALLY FACTORY SUPPORTED!
[/font][/quote]
[quote timestamp="1481292115" source="/post/26325/thread" author="@djmiller"][quote timestamp="1481257629" author="@charliem" source="/post/26322/thread"][font size="3"]It is our understanding that the factory is no longer accepting any requests for customization. Many requested items have become standard like the dual mode water heater and back flusher. The FanTastic fans may still be an option or one may be standard now. Unfortunately they have not [/font][font size="3"]adequately addressed the bent coupler problem and have not [/font][font size="3"]addressed the rear bumper at all. The coupler can be fixed with the simple addition of two bolts, but the enhanced rear bumper requires a qualified welding shop. If you don't plan to carry loads like bicycles on the rear bumper the factory installation is fine. If you do need bike carriage on the rear you should search for and read threads on this forum.
peqwillen,
We no longer offer custom builds. The coupler issue has been taken care. All A frame camplite travel trailers, (currently includes all but the 11fk as it does not use that particular coupler), are being built with the additional 2 bolts through the side. (changed aprox. 6 weeks ago). If you looking at a new unit on a dealer's lot that does not have the bolts added, ask them to add them and we will take care of it.
As far as the bumper. It was never designed to be used to support a hitch, which is how most of the bike racks attach. This issue is on on-going discussion in the development meetings but currently to install a hitch type bike rack a second 2x4x.125 tube would need to be properly added to the existing bumper. This may change... but if and until it does.... keep in mind this CURRENTLY IS NOT OFFICIALLY FACTORY SUPPORTED!
For the benefit of those who have the older configuration (without the side bolts), can you post exactly how LivinLite is making the change? I'd just like to know the size of the bolts, the material, and if any further insulation between the bolts and material is needed. My 2013 21BHS has been fine, but if the company sees fit to make this change, I'd like to do the same to mine. Or, if LivinLite is offering the parts, please let me know. :)
[/font][/quote][/quote]
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/26331/thread" timestamp="1481324133[quote source="/post/26325/thread" author="@djmiller" timestamp="1481292115"]
[/quote]
Ditto on the side bolt information.
(2)Side bolts (one each side) - 1/2"-13x3" grade 8 were added to each side of the coupler. A 1/2" flat washer is used under the head of the bolt and a 1/2-13 stainless steel self locking nut is used on the inside of the A frame.
To install the bolts you will need to remove the center tongue jack and the (3) bolts holding it in place to facilitate getting a wrench on the lock nut. The two new bolts should be torqued to 80 ft.lbs. Check the torque on the existing bolts, they should also be at 80 ft lbs. Replace the center tongue jack and re-install the (3) bolts on the tongue jack torquing those to 23 ft.lbs.
If you have a 21' Camplite trailer and would like us to send you the bolts, washers, and nuts please PM me here. Include your mailing address, VIN and size of coupler. All but the first few are 2-5/16" A few early units utilized a 2" coupler.
- Dan
[quote timestamp="1481572067" author="@djmiller" source="/post/26366/thread"](2)Side bolts (one each side) - 1/2"-13x3" grade 8 were added to each side of the coupler. A 1/2" flat washer is used under the head of the bolt and a 1/2-13 stainless steel self locking nut is used on the inside of the A frame.
To install the bolts you will need to remove the center tongue jack and the (3) bolts holding it in place to facilitate getting a wrench on the lock nut. The two new bolts should be torqued to 80 ft.lbs. Check the torque on the existing bolts, they should also be at 80 ft lbs. Replace the center tongue jack and re-install the (3) bolts on the tongue jack torquing those to 23 ft.lbs.
If you have a 21' Camplite trailer and would like us to send you the bolts, washers, and nuts please PM me here. Include your mailing address, VIN and size of coupler. All but the first few are 2-5/16" A few early units utilized a 2" coupler.
- Dan[/quote]This is great! I think it might be good to post this as separate thread in either "Ask the Factory" or "Camplite Mods" because it's a bit buried here in this thread on purchasing from SIRV.
Any chance of having those parts shipped to a Camping World and having them do the install under some sort of "extended warranty"?
Ours is a "2014" 21BHS, actually built in 2013. No bending apparent after about 12,000 miles towing. Just offhand, I just checked and it has a 2" hitch. Would it be worth upgrading to a 2 5/16 at the same time?
So do you drill the holes in the side of the coupler?? I want the bolts and a schematic. This should made a little more clear. Pictures?? How to??
And let me say I'm not thrilled with drilling relatively large diameter holes in the aluminum frame. They cannot help but weaken it in that area, at least to some small extent.
I still envision a steel plate attached from above, utilizing the existing bolts and bolt holes, to resist bending.
Quote from: @gleamb" source="/post/26395/thread" timestamp="1481602382So do you drill the holes in the side of the coupler?? I want at the bolts and a schematic. This should made a little more clear. Pictures?? How to??
[font size="3"]Gleamb,
Adding the bolts has been covered on this forum. Search for posts on bent couplers and you will find details including pictures. Half inch high strength grade 8 bolts are used with washers and locking devices. I question LL's method because they apparently go completely through the frame members. While good in some respects it does invite collapsing of the frame if internal spacers or washers are not used. Factory supplied instructions may address this. Drilling ½" holes forward of the jack and coupler mounting does not materially affect the strength of the frame 2x4s, but keeping them centered vertically in the tube is good practice. In my experience changing to the higher strength 2-5/16" coupler was a great improvement and I'm glad the factory did so too.
[/font]
I have seen those posts. I have never had any trouble with this issue, BUT I am very annoyed that it isn't being handled as a " recall" issue. The idea of having Camping World do the work gets my vote. I simply don't have the proper tools to do this at this time. Looks like I'll have to borrow them or pay someone to have this done ?? I have the 2" ball, but what irks me is that I have a VERY EXPENSIVE Andersen hitch. The irony is that they first sent me a 2-5/16" ball, which I had to send back!!! I will be sending djmiller a pm to get the bolts. thanks for allowing me to " vent ".
I have sent a PM to djmiller requesting the bolts, but have not, as yet, gotten any response. Am I doing something wrong?
[quote timestamp="1482247365" source="/post/26533/thread" author="@gleamb"]I have sent a PM to djmiller requesting the bolts, but have not, as yet, gotten any response. Am I doing something wrong?[/quote]I have done the same last week, with all of the requested detail and have not had a reponse either. So it appears that he is not returning pm's.
No response for me either.
No response for me either.