Archive - Aluminium Camper Forum

Karen and I have never in two years camped more than one night without access to power.

We are planning a trip to Lakeland for the Sun 'n' Fun event, and going from there to a winery for a night also with no power available.

We are still on our original 12v battery, which may be showing its age.

A few questions:

1) If we were buying a replacement battery as a preventive measure, would it make sense to just buy the new one, charge it up and carry it in the trailer so as to swap it out if and when the original battery runs out of juice?
If so, what's a decent replacement battery that might be had at Walmart, Advanced, O'Reilly's or somewhere similar?

2) How long does it typically take for a TV to fully charge a depleted battery? Does it ever make sense to just start the TV and let it charge for a while? Would a couple hours from Lakeland to the east coast do it?

3) Just got a Harbor Freight mailer. They're offering a "45 Watt Solar Panel 10 Piece Kit", marked down to about $140:

[a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-10-pc-kit-68751.html"]http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-10-pc-kit-68751.html[/a]


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_24009.jpg"]

Any thoughts on this? It includes the disclaimer: "Requires 12 volt storage battery and 300 watt power inverter (sold separately)." What's up with that? There is a manual online I may download and check out.

4) As a final option, we have a Honda 2kw generator we could carry as a last resort. Not crazy about carrying a fueled generator in the trailer, though.

Just looking to start a discussion on the best way to go.

Thanks in advance! Hope this prompts a discussion that might be informative to others as well.

This has been discussed in other threads, but let me summarize what I know or think I know:

1. Normal boondocking requires about 15 amp hours of power each day, unless you use the fridge on 12V (use propane) or run the propane furnace. Maybe 30 amp hours if you run a fan all night.

2. A typical battery installed by your dealer is a Group 27 and has a capacity of 70 amp hours.

3. You don't want to discharge your battery more than 50% for best life, so the battery above has a real world capacity of 35 amp hours. That is enough for 2 days of normal use.

4. The TV connector charges at about 10-15 amps while driving, less while idling. You can increase this by directly connecting your TV's battery to the trailer with jumper cables and let the engine idle. Maybe 30 amps. Charlie has measured it and I am sure that he will chime in.

5. If you hook up your Honda to the shore power connection it will charge at about 40 amps (I think that is the rating of the converter on most LLs) and drop to 25, 15, and 10 amps as the battery charges. It will probably take an hour and a half or so to bring a Group 27 battery up from 50% to 90%. It will take much longer to get to 100% so you really want to stop at 90%.

6. If you have sun (and where we have camped, we never do) solar panels are a good solution. Here are several stand alone panels for a bit over $100 for 100 watts and a solar panel kit for $191: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_6?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=100+watt+solar+panel&sprefix=100+wa%2Caps%2C301. If you want to just set it up and forget about it, get a kit or a panel and controller. If you monitor it you can just hook the panel directly to the battery and disconnect when full.

7. A 100 watt solar panel will provide enough power to charge 25 amp hours on a sunny day. So one 100 watt panel will keep you going nearly forever with a cloudy day every third day.

8. The inverter mentioned in the ad is if you want to convert 12V DC to 120V AC. Most of us don't need AC.

9. The cheapest solution of all to your DC needs is to replace your single battery with a pair of 6V golf cart batteries wired in series. That will give you 220 amp hours of rated capacity or 110 real amp hours, enough to keep you going for a full week without moving.

10. If you buy golf cart batteries, you know it is a true deep cycle battery that will last through hundreds, maybe a thousand charge/discharge cycles. With any other type of battery it is iffy and they may not last. Two indicators (but not definitive) of a deep cycle battery: an amp hour rating stamped on the side and fllling caps. AGMs don't have filling caps and are inherently deep cycle (as well as suitable for starting) but cost three times as much, but they are entirely suitable for RV use.

I prefer 6V golf cart batteries, not the least of which is they work well. Another is that you can check their charge with a simple hydrometer. You do have to check and add water a couple of times each year.

You can use one or more of the foregoing to cover your power needs- nothing for a day or two, recharge with the TV if you are moving, use the Honda when all else fails, etc.

David

The above is nice summary. For some additional specific brands for both charging systems and batteries, here are things I like. 

This outfit has both portable and fixed mount systems for boats and RVs. They tend to the expensive side, but I can vouch for the company and the equipment. 

http://www.solar-electric.com/solar-panels-mounts-kits-accessories/prsy/rvandsmbasoc.html

I like and use Duracell AGM marine batteries. They make a variety of sizes, including those common in RVs as well as golf cart size. I have 2 group size 31 in my camper and 4 group size 31 at my cabin and have plenty of power both places. I get them at Sams Club for excellent prices. 

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/topic/duracell-agm-batteries?rtype=item&rid=prod3590232&action=item_overlap&iid=prod3590232&xid=topic_pdp

What David said.  Also, in my opinion the 45 watt setup you looked at isn't enough watts to be really provide the power you need in the time you have.  It will provide power, just not enough.

Eddie,

Now is your chance to buy two golf cart batts. Follow David's advice. For a chemical guy, he's pretty good. Merlin likes the AGMs, but they're $$$.

My only nit with David is I've never seen a dealer put in a Gp27. Most use Gp24s, but probably dealer dependent.

The above makes my head hurt, though I am sure at least one of them knows what he's talking about.

My recommendation: skip the winery. Get yourself a bottle of Crown Royal Black. More fun in a bottle of hooch than a 6er of wine, and you can stay at a campsite with power, water, and sewer (that's called a Trifecta, by the way). If you also score cable TV, it's The Grand Slam.

Winery events full of snobs, anyway. Like a dog show.

[p]I have a 150Watt Portable Solar Foldup Panel Kit (2-Panels), came with everything I need to recharge my RV Battery.
I haven't used it yet but hope to in mid-April as I will be dry camping. I paid $550 for the Entire Kit w/shipping, their Portable kit has changed a bit, now it is a 100Watt kit.[/p][p]Mine did include a 800W inverter.[/p][p]http://bhasolar.com/?page_id=96

I have a 4600Watt Solar System on my Home and being so pleased with it and knowing the benefits with Solar I went ahead and got this 150 watt RV kit.[/p]

Good Luck on your decision Fast Eddie! One more thing to think about:

 Using two golf cart batteries may increase your tongue weight somewhat, I know we have had this conversation in the past. I  have the two golf cart batteries, two propane tanks, power jack, and metal tray for the cargo area (slide out) and my tongue weight is right at 700 lbs. I think you mentioned yours was near 700 lbs. one time in the past.

What I am doing now is loading more stuff in the back of the trailer (even clothes when driving) to keep the weight down. I only keep lite weight stuff in the pass through and put heavy electrical cords, hoses in the storage compartment in the slide out in the middle of the trailer.

Again good luck!

[quote source="/post/20067/thread" timestamp="1459410951" author="@swbc150"][p]I have a 150Watt Portable Solar Foldup Panel Kit (2-Panels), came with everything I need to recharge my RV Battery.
I haven't used it yet but hope to in mid-April as I will be dry camping. I paid $550 for the Entire Kit w/shipping, their Portable kit has changed a bit, now it is a 100Watt kit.[/p][p]Mine did include a 800W inverter.[/p][p]http://bhasolar.com/?page_id=96

I have a 4600Watt Solar System on my Home and being so pleased with it and knowing the benefits with Solar I went ahead and got this 150 watt RV kit.[/p][/quote]Thanks for including the link. Looks like another high quality portable solution.


As an aside, is the 4.6KW system on your home on the grid or off the grid? 

Thanks to all  the considered replies - I'm going to bookmark this thread.

As far as the 2x6v batteries, Monte is right about the weight issue. My Ford Flex calls for 450 lb max tongue weight. Though LivinLite advertised 440 lb tongue weight for the 21BHS, my real world, lightly loaded number was 625 lbs.

Though I've had the receiver reinforced and have towed successfully for  about 9,000 miles, I'm hesitant to add any weight at all to the tongue. It looks to me at first glance that the second 6v battery could add about 60 lbs.

Just curious - has anyone gone to the trouble to move their battery(s) aft to mitigate the hit to the tongue weight?

Anyway, I think we're going to address this in stages to budget out the expense.

For right now, I'd like to replace the existing battery. It's at least a couple years old, and has been fully depleted on a handful of occasions. So, I'm open to specific recommendations on brands and models to replace it. I'm willing to spend extra for AGM, and might even consider lithium iron if not nosebleedingly expensive.

And then, in the near future, look into solar. I'd like to hear about swbc's experience with his system - $500 is doable for us.

Thanks all, and I hope others are benefitting from this as well.

You can relocate your batteries to the aft bumper. You will need to build a mounting for the battery box, maybe out of aluminum angle, bent and bolted or pop riveted at the corners and then bolted to the bumper. You will need to run a heavy cable- 10 gauge minimum from the converter back to the batteries. The batteries will be charged from the converter or the TV which feeds to the converter.

Notice that I said batterIES. If you do it, then do it for a pair of GC batteries. You will probably take at least 100 lbs off of the tongue weight with 70 lbs removed from the tongue and 150 lbs added to the bumper.

You can buy a $500 package, but please consider the $191 one that I referenced above. Same thing but no inverter (converts battery power to household 120V AC).

David

Quote from: @david" timestamp="1459444490" source="/post/20078/threadYou can relocate your batteries to the aft bumper. You will need to build a mounting for the battery box, maybe out of aluminum angle, bent and bolted or pop riveted at the corners and then bolted to the bumper. You will need to run a heavy cable- 10 gauge minimum from the converter back to the batteries. The batteries will be charged from the converter or the TV which feeds to the converter.

Notice that I said batterIES. If you do it, then do it for a pair of GC batteries. You will probably take at least 100 lbs off of the tongue weight with 70 lbs removed from the tongue and 150 lbs added to the bumper.

You can buy a $500 package, but please consider the $191 one that I referenced above. Same thing but no inverter (converts battery power to household 120V AC).

David

Thanks.

Is it a given the rear bumper can hold that 150 lbs? I've seen concerns about even bicycles being placed back there. 

Am I correct the converter is under the fridge somewhere? If so the cable run should be no more than the long run to the front-mounted battery.

I will take a look at the solar unit you recommended - I think I missed it the first time around. I agree the inverter is superfluous, plus I already have a small one if 110v is ever essential. And now that I think of it, the Flex has 110v outlet in the back seat as well.

edited to add: your link goes to a lot of different search results. Are you talking about http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-Complete-Off-Grid-Controller-Connectors/dp/B00JML23X0/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1459445071&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=100+watt+solar+panel&psc=1

[font size="3"]Interesting idea, batteries on the rear. The factory bumper should be fine. The batteries, though heavier, will not impose the torque load that cantilevered bicycles do. You'll have to make the rack and really tie them down because they'll get more whiplash back there than on the tongue. David's correct on wire size though I'd go with #8 or even #6 copper. Easily obtained at home improvement stores. Geometry being what it is you gain almost a pound for every pound you take off the tongue and you gain another 1/2 pound for every pound you hang on the bumper. Put 2 golfers on the back, wire it with heavy wire, and you're ready to go off the grid. Add solar someday and we won't hear from you for months.  8-)   

Camp on!
[/font]

fasteddieb,
that looks like a decent kit for the money.

I Dry Camp 99% of the time, the only time I use shore power is during my Snowbirding in Arizona.

I didn't have to order my BHA Solar kit with the inverter, I did so just to be prepared. I went with the BHA kit because I already knew of the Solar benefits and being able to understand what I was reading in their spec sheet compared to other portable solar kits on the market, which did cost less.
This is a Portable Kit meaning I can place my Solar Panels on the ground so they stay in the Sunlight, while my Bearcat can stay in the shade.

Merlin,
My 4.6KW system ( 2 1/2 yrs old) is presently tied to the Grid, so at night I pull power off of the grid but against my Net Power Companies Meter. To be off of the Grid would of added way more expense to the setup as for the needed batteries.

My electric Bill is $0 for the last 2 1/2 yrs and with 3,211 kWh of cumulative energy credits built up on the Power Company Net Meter, I don't see that changing other than adding more energy credits.

fasteddieb:

Yes, that is the one. On the same page are some stand alone 100 watt solar panels for a bit over $100 that you could just hook to your batteries. You would have to monitor the state of charge and disconnect them when near 100%. But the controller in the kit makes it a set and forget solution.

David

Here are some specific ideas for you.

If you go with two 6 volt golf cart batteries, one possibility is below, including a box and main battery power on-off switch. Just add wiring, connectors, and someway to secure the battery box.


Circuit breaker with on-off battery switch

http://www.solar-electric.com/mrcb-40-amp-dc-circuit-breaker.html

AGM batteries at $180 each (need 2)

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-agm-golf-car-battery-group-size-gc2agm/prod3870119.ip?navAction=

Flooded batteries at $85 each (need 2)

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-golf-car-battery-group-size-gc2/prod3590228.ip?sprodId=prod3590228&selectedTab=allProducts&_requestid=948577

Battery box for two 6 volt GC2 batteries

http://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Roto-Molded-Marine-Battery-23-63/dp/B000MTI1G4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1459469839&sr=8-8&keywords=moeller+battery+box


 

If you go with a simple replacement of the 12 volt you have now, I don't know the size. I use Group size 31, but that might require a larger battery box than what's on your 21BHS? Duracell also makes Group size 34 in a deep cycle.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-agm-deep-cycle-marine-and-rv-battery-group-size-31dtmagm/prod3590232.ip?navAction=

And, there's really nothing wrong with the inexpensive Interstate deep cycle RV/marine batteries that are commonly available. A fresh one of those would be fine as a replacement until you decide to invest in more boon-docking power with a solar set up.

I would use a 40 amp breaker, not 80. Ten gauge wire is only good for 60 amps and the breaker needs to be sized to protect the wire. But as Charlie recommends in a previous post, 6 or 8 gauge is better. That circuit will never see more than 40 amps so size the breaker to pass the load and protect the wire- 40 amps.

And if you install a solar panel you will need to fuse the wire near the battery. Or you could use at least 12 gauge wire to your solar controller and make the connection downstream of the 40 amp breaker and it will protect the wire.

David

[font size="3"]I recommend larger wire, not for the current carrying capacity, but for the voltage drop. Even at 30 Amps twenty cable feet (round trip) of #10 will drop 0.6 volts. #6 wire will reduce that by 60%. At 12V, especially during charging, every tenth of a volt counts.
[/font]

[p]fasteddieb,
Do you happen to go to NASCAR events like Talladega? (the next one is May 1st, and I'll be there).  I am only asking because I see you live in GA.  You would be surprised to see all the Boon docking going on at a race like that.  For me, I have learned a lot by just walking around thousands of campers seeing what all of the redneck engineers have created to get them through the 3-5 days of camping in the track parking lot.

I have found the battery really doesn't hold out for what I do, but my little Honda Generator makes everything perfect. I LOVE my Honda generator and would recommend that anyone who does not have one should get one.

I have my camper also set up as a "bug out" shelter for my wife if the power should go out in the house for an extended period. All she has to do is pull the cord on the Honda, and turn on the propane and she can live just fine in the camper for several days in our yard if needed.  Keep in mind that I work for Norwegian Cruise Lines, so I am on ships working for 8 months a year, so she is home alone.
[/p][p]
[/p][p]Boon docking should be something that everyone is prepared to do and has practiced a few times to get the bugs worked out.  Having lived through several hurricanes and Ice storms, and had my house without power for several days, having my camper as a ready to go shelter at any moment is one of my biggest justifications for making the payment every month.  It like an insurance policy that makes me feel good to know it's there.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Just like the Coast Guard Motto, Semper Paratus, Always Ready
[/p]

Last season I purchased a Zamp portable 80 watt solar kit.  It replaced all the amps I used each day for my pickup camper.  Unit folds and fits in a nice zippered case with handle.  It folds down to less the 24" square.  I used two 24 group AGM's so I didn't have to vent.  I ran a few lights, an Engle 12 volt fridge and a CPAP unit each nite.  The Zamp is expensive, but the unit is totally  sealed and has strong tempered glass.  Also comes with  a 10 amp waterproof solar charger controller.  I'm going to use the same 48" box that Merlin used to store the two 24's I kept and add a waterproof sidewall port.
I hope it will keep me off the grid, if not I'll purchase another 40 watt.  Happy camping and check out all the wineries in BC sometime

I just saw this on Amazon. http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00LXG4AXS?psc=1  Just add wire and a charge controller and you're all set for only $240.00. Or choose the same panel with complete package for only $20 more.  I have a Renogy 70w panel and I will say it is an excellent panel. I use a Morningstar controller (this one: http://smile.amazon.com/Morningstar-SS-10L-12V-Sunsaver-10-Amp-Lvd/dp/B002MQSTQ2/ref=sr_1_13?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1459545218&sr=1-13&keywords=morningstar+charge+controller) because it gets very good ratings.  A bit more expensive but with the panel you're still at $300 rather then the $450 to $500 kits.

If you go this route don't buy Solar Panel cables with MC4 connectors, just buy some 10 gauge wire (you could even use the wire from a heavy extension cord) and fasten you own MC4 connectors on the end.  I say this because solar panel wires are very rigid and a big PITA to coil up or lay flat on the ground.

[quote timestamp="1459509077" author="@david" source="/post/20098/thread"]I would use a 40 amp breaker, not 80. Ten gauge wire is only good for 60 amps and the breaker needs to be sized to protect the wire. But as Charlie recommends in a previous post, 6 or 8 gauge is better. That circuit will never see more than 40 amps so size the breaker to pass the load and protect the wire- 40 amps.

And if you install a solar panel you will need to fuse the wire near the battery. Or you could use at least 12 gauge wire to your solar controller and make the connection downstream of the 40 amp breaker and it will protect the wire.

David[/quote]Agree on the breaker. I changed the link. 

These are all great suggestions - thanks!

Rough game plan right now...

1) For this trip, just install a new 12v deep cycle battery. Maybe carry the old one as a spare, and as aft ballast to reduce tongue weight a hair.

I went battery shopping yesterday, to O'Reilly's, Advanced and Walmart.

O'Reilly's:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1512/26102266272_a6592e08f0_c.jpg)



Advanced:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1531/26194712015_465898e597_c.jpg)



(note that manufacture date!)

WalMart:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1539/26168795316_94f2e804db_z.jpg)



I'm leaning towards the Walmart. Interestingly, both Walmart and one other had "Premium" batteries for about $20 more, but they showed either the same capacity, or in the Walmart case, actually less. Odd.

2) Next step will likely be a portable solar setup. I'll likely choose one of the recommended ones in this thread, with a controller but no inverter. May even do that before this trip if I can get it delivered in time.

3) Long term think about the 6v batteries on the rear bumper. With the mounting and wiring, that's a bigger job than I want to tackle right now.

A thought on #3 - might it make sense to leave the 12v in place on the tongue as a secondary battery, with maybe a DPDT switch to switch from one to the other? Or with the solar is that just unneeded weight and complexity?

Those batteries all have filler caps which is good, but I don't see an amp hour rating anywhere, which makes me wonder if they are true deep cycle batteries. The other ratings I see are for starting applications, which is a pretty good indication that they are not deep cycle. When you build a battery to maximize its starting ratings with lots of thin plates you inherently do not have a deep cycle battery.

Also the ones I can see are Group 24. Can your battery box take a Group 27 which will give you more capacity. BTW, deep cycle batteries are normally rated as the total amp hours that they can supply over a 20 hour period until fully discharged.

True deep cycle batteries have heavier plates because the discharging/charging cycle will slough off some of the lead permanently as lead sulfate. A starting battery will look like swiss cheese after a hundred or so discharge/charge cycles. Golf cart batteries also have more clearance from the plates to the bottom of the case to allow for sulfate build up, as well as more headroom over the plates for electrolyte. Once enough sulfate builds up, it shorts the plates and the battery is toast.

The only widely available battery that I have seen that has filler caps and an amp hour rating is made by Interstate. Most auto parts stores can order them for you. But I don't know for sure if it is built with deep cycle features, although the one that came with my trailer is going strong after two years.

You can keep the tongue and bumper batteries hooked up in parallel and they will work fine together as long as they are the same type- both flooded cell (with filler caps like the ones pictured) or AGMs. No need to switch them in or out.

David

David,

If you look closely the Walmart battery says 101 Amp/Hours.

I just looked up the Group 27 dimensions and I'm going to run down to see if one will fit the current box, bigger being better!

Fasteddieb:

Yes, it does give an amp hour spec, but not the industry standard 20 hour rating. I blew up your pic and saw that it says 101 amp hours @ 1 amp. So that is a 100 hour rating which is much more than it would be at the standard 20 hours.

I guess having a deceptive amp hour rating is better than no amp hour rating, but coming from a supplier named EverStart, I still have my doubts.

BTW, I just checked my trailer's Interstate battery and I was wrong on two counts: It is a Group 24, not 27 and it does not have an amp hour rating.

So give it a try, mine has worked ok. And FWIW most of these batteries are all made in the same factory anyway.

David

No way a Group 27 will fit - too long for the existing box. My stock battery is a Group 24 Interstate as well.

Probably will go with the Walmart for the price and convenience. I have a spare battery box that I think is the right size, and I may mount it to the rear bumper to carry the current battery to have as a spare.

[font size="3"]Fasteddieb et al,

See my separate post today re "Connecting 12 Volt Batteries in Parallel". I thought it worth a separate thread since it's a challenge that takes understanding, planning and extra work. [/font]

And look at the date codes!!!! Those Autocraft batteries have been sitting on the shelf for over a year. Bad idea. 

(//)https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WWzxq0aCfLE/hqdefault.jpg

[font size="3"]FYI, there is a thing called a GC12. It's a 12 volt true deep cycle battery for golf carts. It's available at Batteries Plus Bulbs for $199. Weighs ~90# and 150AH. Similar in price and capability to the Trojan T-1275. More expensive than a pair of ubiquitous GC2s, but might work where weight/size are concerns.
[/font]

[quote timestamp="1459732004" author="@charliem" source="/post/20166/thread"][font size="3"]FYI, there is a thing called a GC12. It's a 12 volt true deep cycle battery for golf carts. It's available at Batteries Plus Bulbs for $199. Weighs ~90# and 150AH. Similar in price and capability to the Trojan T-1275. More expensive than a pair of ubiquitous GC2s, but might work where weight/size are concerns.
[/font][/quote]Check out the Trojan t-605 they have 210 ah and cost up here in Mi $85 plus core the t-105 is 225ah for about $125 plus core. The t-125 was around $150 and 240 ah plus core you need two ran in series for the 12volt you'll need.

I just completed installation of a 180W 34V solar panel on the roof. Spans four rafters and is 4-Way tilt adjustable. It supplies near 15A when the load is there on a sunny day. 6A when overcast. This is our boondock power source. Utah bound on the 23rd.

Why 34 volt?

Allows me to run smaller gauge wire from the panel to the controller, then, mount the charge controller closer to the GC2's. Less lossy.

[quote timestamp="1459863613" source="/post/20212/thread" author="@whoofit"]I just completed installation of a 180W 34V solar panel on the roof. Spans four rafters and is 4-Way tilt adjustable. It supplies near 15A when the load is there on a sunny day. 6A when overcast. This is our boondock power source. Utah bound on the 23rd.

[/quote]I'd like to do this too. What brand/model of panel? Did you make the tilt mount, or is it built-in? I have a Morningstar MPPT 15A controller that would be perfect for that panel. 

I found a great deal on a few branded NESL. Too good to pass up. Not where I bought them but they are new and the specs are found here: http://www.posharp.com/dj-180d-solar-panel-from-changzhou-nesl-solartech-co-ltd_p6392093d.aspx I figure risk it as I have several replacements now and the bracketing I mounted to the roof is versatile enough for most any sized panel if need be.

The tilt mech is all aluminum extrusion and stainless components. Basically eight SS hinges and an AL frame. I am using the Rogue MPPT-3024 that has much excess capacity.

[quote source="/post/20216/thread" timestamp="1459864712" author="@whoofit"]Allows me to run smaller gauge wire from the panel to the controller, then, mount the charge controller closer to the GC2's. Less lossy.[/quote]Makes sense, thanks

[quote timestamp="1459866698" author="@mitch" source="/post/20223/thread"][quote source="/post/20216/thread" author="@whoofit" timestamp="1459864712"]Allows me to run smaller gauge wire from the panel to the controller, then, mount the charge controller closer to the GC2's. Less lossy.[/quote]Makes sense, thanks[/quote]I strongly suggest folks go this route though most do not. MPPT charge controllers are very efficient these days. Well worth a look.

Work in progress...


[img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1454/25651268154_09bdb5f35d_z.jpg"]

Mission accomplished:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1592/26279326155_c4733180b3_z.jpg"]

Maybe $10 in hardware - mainly u-bolts, aluminum angle stock and fender washers. Lucky I had the aluminum stock and battery box already. Room for another battery box later if I decide on the 2x6v solution.

Probably just a temporary sub-$100 fix, but at least we'll have some backup power for this trip.

If I were looking for flat aluminum stock like that, where would I be looking? 

Brilliant method of attaching the battery box hold-down straps, by the way..........

[quote timestamp="1459990295" source="/post/20297/thread" author="@sandroad"]If I were looking for flat aluminum stock like that, where would I be looking? 

Brilliant method of attaching the battery box hold-down straps, by the way..........[/quote]Metal shop? I had two pieces left over from a project years ago, which was convenient.

Thanks. I was going to go with eye bolts, but the unused plates from the u-bolts with nuts as spacers made a convenient slot for the straps.

As an aside, I got those straps for free from a BMW motorcycle shop. I don't know if they still use them, but they used to come as part of the shipping crate, and shops would end up with boxes full of them. Handy for all sorts of things and much more secure, and less dangerous, than bungees.

An update about our brief FL trip...

First night was camping at the Horse Creek Winery on our way to Lakeland for Sun 'n' Fun. No problem. On departure from there the next day the new Walmart battery was showing 12.2v.

After the drive to Lakeland, about 5 hours, the new Walmart battery was pretty much fully charged by our Flex and @ 12.87v . Arrived in the afternoon. By the following afternoon, it was down to 11.84v, and I swapped it with the backup battery. We had used the furnace for about 30 minutes and the television for about 20 minutes, and not much else beyond the refrigerator and water pump.

Leaving Lakeland on Sunday morning, that original Interstate battery was down to 12.2v, with slightly less furnace use, and I again swapped batteries again so the newer Walmart battery could charge as we drove.

Did another battery swap after the Walmart dropped just below 12v while camped at Ft. Pierce. This is how I checked voltage, BTW:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1671/26349978691_f0b7ed746e_z.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1688/26349787411_ae362169cd_z.jpg"]

Put the Walmart battery back in. Arriving at the Walmart in Lake City, FL it was up to 12.78v, but overnight using not much at all beyond the refrigerator, it had dropped to 12.03v.

Again, never ran out of power, so that's the good news. I am a little surprised at how quickly the voltage does drop with basically just the refrigerator and intermittent water pump use. We would even start the car when extending and retracting the slideout to save battery.

I'll leave it there for now, but will have a question tomorrow and will update you on our tentative plans going forward.

A couple quick things.....

The type of fridge we have uses a LOT of DC power. Use propane instead, if you aren't doing that already. That all by itself will GREATLY reduce the battery discharge. 

The state of charge of the battery scale is only for a battery disconnected and at rest. When they are connected and in use, the voltage reading will be related to the electrical draw more than the state of charge. 

Merlin is absolutely correct, resting voltage needs to be just that, and to have any accuracy the battery needs to be resting for several hours with no charge and no load.

I too am surprised by how quickly your batteries seem to drop. Get a hydrometer at any autoparts store. That is the only real way to check state of charge.

And if you are using DC for the fridge, switch to propane as Merlin notes. The fridge will use a huge amount of DC.

David

Thank you guys.

1) The Dometic refrigerator in our 21BHS is just dual-use - 120v or propane. I mentioned it running only because I assume some dc  current is used even when running on propane, which it was.

2) I had given passing thought to the battery voltage indicating lower with even a small load on it. After sitting for a while disconnected, the voltage on my spare did seem to increase.

3) I will purchase a decent hydrometer and attempt to monitor that way.

4) One other data point - for some reason our water pump seems to "spit" a lot, as if air gets into the system when not hooked to shore water. I assume it draws a fair bit of current, since the trailer LEDs dim a bit when it's activated. I'll start another thread on troubleshooting that.

5) I vaguely recall a "heater" in the refrigerator that draws current constantly and can be disconnected for boondocking.The only heater my Dometic manual refers to is 120v. Am I misremembering the details on this?

Finally, "ignorance is bliss" may have been our motto previously. If not constantly checking the voltage, my guess is things still keep running down to fairly low voltages. I know that's not supposed to be ideal for battery longevity, but in real life I've had car batteries run down to zilch repeatedly when sitting for an extended time or if a light was left on, and they still seem to bounce back and give decent life. Maybe my motto should be...


(https://markgredler.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/what-me-worry-715605.jpg)

[font size="3"]Eddie,

Your method of connecting VM and measuring is OK, but the battery must be at rest. Your measurement of 12.85 volts indicates it had just been charging. Not a good SOC reading. A fully charged battery at rest should read 12.7V.

Minimal load and no charging for 60 minutes seems to work. The minimal load of the propane detector is almost unavoidable, but the fridge does have a 6 watt heater running continuously. That's 12 Ah per day lost. Dometic used to provide a switch but it "confused" the masses and cost 50 cents. Gone. You need to disable it if you plan on dry camping.

The water pump may pulse and/or sputter, but its total usage is minimal over a day unless you're washing the Flex. The biggest usage is the furnace, assuming the lights are LEDs and the TV is 12V.

Unless your Flex has been specifically modified it will not properly recharge, even in 5 hours. It's probably delivering 10 Amps or less, depending, and not constant at that. Most new cars drop back to 13.6V at the alternator when driving and that's not enough to recharge the CL battery. I carry a set of 20 foot #4AWG copper jumper cables for recharging. The work well, but are still limited by the 13.6V limit.

So in the end I think your highs were too high and your lows were too low. Looking forward to your next update.

Camp on!
[/font]

[quote source="/post/20544/thread" timestamp="1460637566" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Your measurement of 12.85 volts indicates it had just been charging. Not a good SOC reading. A fully charged battery at rest should read 12.7V.



So in the end I think your highs were too high and your lows were too low.
[/font][/quote]
Was just going to add the skin effect from charging. He was not starting with a fully charged battery. This coupled with testing the low end under load paints the right picture. Been there before myself.

Thanks, Charlie.

Can you point me to a post on where to wire the 6w heater switch?

[quote source="/post/20546/thread" timestamp="1460638797" author="@fasteddieb"]Thanks, Charlie.

Can you point me to a post on where to wire the 6w heater switch?[/quote][font size="3"]Some details here: [/font][a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/144/fridge-frame-heater-switch"]http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/144/fridge-frame-heater-switch[/a]

[font size="3"]Pay particular attention to the blue wire in TT's picture. DO NOT cut the lug off. The blue wire is spiral wound resistance wire and cannot be easily terminated with a lug. Been there and won't do that again!  :(   Remove the lug from the ground stud, connect it to a SPST toggle switch, and connect the other terminal of the switch to ground. Mount the switch. [/font]

Bought a hydrometer from O'Reilly's today - will play with it later.

Here's how my refrigerator is wired:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1713/25827511934_1a49ceab39_z.jpg)My color vision is a bit off - I'm looking at the light bluish wire on the post on the right, correct?

[quote timestamp="1460669318" author="@fasteddieb" source="/post/20559/thread"]
Here's how my [font size="3" color="e6193a"]air conditioner[/font] is wired:


My color vision is a bit off - I'm looking at the light bluish wire on the post on the right, correct?[/quote][font size="3"]I assume you meant refrigerator, not AC? Yes the light blue wire should be the heater. You can verify this by disconnecting CL from shore power, turning on the fridge, and measuring the current from the battery. Disconnecting the light blue wire should reduce the battery load by approx. 0.5 Amps. If it checks out, mount a SPST toggle switch nearby and run the blue wire through it to the ground stud. The heater does make some difference in condensation, particularly near the bottom of the freezer door, in soggy Florida. So you can run it when you have commercial power available. [/font]

[quote timestamp="1460679264" source="/post/20566/thread" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/20559/thread" author="@fasteddieb" timestamp="1460669318"]Here's how my [font color="e6193a" size="3"]air conditioner[/font] is wired:


My color vision is a bit off - I'm looking at the light bluish wire on the post on the right, correct?[/quote][font size="3"]I assume you meant refrigerator, not AC?[/font]
[/quote]Yes. Brain fart and fixed.

I'll play with that soon - thanks!

I disconnected our frame heater with the intention of adding a relay to turn it on when shore power is present, but never got around to finishing it because it literally made no difference. We just turned off the fridge after 10 months of continuous use and never once had condensation or door sticking. We're up in the northwest though, so maybe our climate just doesn't need it.

[quote timestamp="1460729320" author="@tinkeringtechie" source="/post/20575/thread"]I disconnected our frame heater with the intention of adding a relay to turn it on when shore power is present, but never got around to finishing it because it literally made no difference. We just turned off the fridge after 10 months of continuous use and never once had condensation or door sticking. We're up in the northwest though, so maybe our climate just doesn't need it.[/quote][font size="3"]I've never had frost or ice buildup, but I THINK I've noted some condensation around the bottom of the freezer door. Admittedly not rigorously explored. I'll PM you some Florida wet to check yours out  8-) .[/font]

After arriving home, I brought my original Interstate battery up to the house to charge, using an old Sears charger. It has a setting for "Deep Cycle", which I used. After two days, the "Full Charge" light never came on. It seemed like the voltage was maxing out at about 12.46v. Put it in Campy while plugged into 30A shore  power and it came up to 13.26v, still hooked up to the trailer:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1476/26492535995_bb805b4ef0_z.jpg"]

Has me questioning if it might be time for a new charger for the house.

As far as the new Walmart battery, after charging on the trailer for a couple days with 30A power, but with shore power disconnected, it showed 13.09v, though I have another voltmeter that shows about .1  v less:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1535/25887645914_454384cc04_z.jpg"]

Finally, checked the voltage with shore power attached:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1473/26426411471_bda1129b25_z.jpg"]

Finally, checked it disconnected from Campy:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1580/26426396071_2cb4b7effe_z.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1594/26426396811_80d53db6cc_z.jpg"]

Do these voltages make sense? charliem thought they were high. Hard to see how the charger in Campy would fail in that manner - and I don't think the output voltage is adjustable - is it?* And I recall that one symptom of overcharging is the boiling out of electrolyte, yet I've never had to add any.

And any recommendations on an all-around battery charger to replace my old Sears unit?

*From the manual:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1508/26400720822_8ab654ae47_z.jpg)

Back on point, I think our first step towards more efficient boondocking will be a portable 100w solar solution. We try to space out "extravagances", so that will probably be a May expense.

After that I my consider going with two 6v golf cart batteries on the rear bumper. Seems like voltage loss running up to the existing wiring could be reduced by just using a large enough gauge, or even several wires in a "bundle". One wire would be enough if I run a substantial ground strap right at the battery.

Now, can anyone explain why two 6v golf cart batteries in series would be more efficient than just a large marine deep cycle battery of the same amp/hours? It would certainly simplify the installation.

[font size="3"]fasteddieb said: "Do these voltages make sense? charliem thought they were high."

My comment was to your reading of 12.85v. A fully charged battery at rest should not read much above 12.7, assuming the voltmeter is accurate. Reference your forth picture: how long has that Wally World battery been off the charger? 13.1v is really high for a battery at rest.

I would agree the old homestead is due for a new charger. The present one should be relegated to wheel chock duty.

Two 6v golfers are better than two 12v marine batteries for two reasons: First, the marine batteries are not true deep cycle. They are a hybrid starting/lighting battery optimized for neither. Secondly, parallel connected batteries have current sharing issues that get worse with physical separation. Series connection assures every cell gets and gives the same current. FLA batteries are really current sensitive animals, not so much voltage sensitive. Even when looking past two 6v golfers the preferred solution would be two larger 6v batteries or even six 2v cells in series. That's what the Telcos use for their standby systems, but they're big, heavy, and expensive.
[/font]

What Charlie said. I don't think any 12V battery is a true deep cycle battery with heavy plates and more room above and below the plates for electrolyte and sulfate buildup. See
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_battery. Everywhere you see "boat", read it as "RV".

David

Quote from: @david" source="/post/20646/thread" timestamp="1461007621What Charlie said. I don't think any 12V battery is a true deep cycle battery with heavy plates and more room above and below the plates for electrolyte and sulfate buildup. See
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_battery. Everywhere you see "boat", read it as "RV".

David

[font size="3"]Excellent, but wordy, article. I hope more RVers will read, understand, and heed it. Thanks for the reference.[/font]

Quick data points...

Current draw with light blue wire attached to ground lug: 1.22A

Current draw with light blue wire disconnected from ground lug: about .84A but hunts around a bit.

I suppose every little bit helps.

Found an appropriate switch and will probably work on wire and terminals and mounting the switch later today.

[quote timestamp="1461085785" source="/post/20676/thread" author="@fasteddieb"]Quick data points...

Current draw with light blue wire attached to ground lug: 1.22A

Current draw with light blue wire disconnected from ground lug: about .84A but hunts around a bit.

I suppose every little bit helps.

Found an appropriate switch and will probably work on wire and terminals and mounting the switch later today.[/quote][font size="3"]Yes, every little bit helps when dry camping. What instrument were you using to measure the two currents? Clamp on, if so what range, or in circuit DMM?[/font]

In-line between the negative battery terminal and the two ring terminals that normally attach to it.

I used this $6 Multimeter that Harbor Freight periodically offers for free. It has a 10A range.

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html

[quote timestamp="1461088165" source="/post/20679/thread" author="@fasteddieb"]In-line between the negative battery terminal and the two ring terminals that normally attach to it.

I used this $6 Multimeter that Harbor Freight periodically offers for free. It has a 10A range.

[a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html"]http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html[/a][/quote][font size="3"]OK. Just wondered since the delta should be very close to 0.5 Amps. I'm not sure about the accuracy of the HF meter. Most such meters are inaccurate at the low end of a high current range. Also I see the HF meter is traceable to the National Bureau of Standards. In fact, they just threw it in the Dumpster last week (old joke) ;) .

I also wonder what the second ring terminal on the battery negative is. Mine only has one to the negative. The positive now has two since I added a power tongue jack. I assume you had shore power disconnected. If not the readings could be anything.[/font]

Both my terminals have two wires and ring terminals going to them  - I've never traced them to see where they go. I did check and there's zero effective resistance between the negative terminal and the frame when hooked up.

I did shave shore power turned off throughout.

Did this this afternoon:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1633/25927621174_c3494445c8_z.jpg)I was going to drill a hole in that aluminum pane for the toggle switch, but may just wedge it in below the panel and secure it with RTV or equivalent. On the fairly rare occasion we boondock for more than one night, easy enough to remove the external cover and switch the heater wire off.

[quote source="/post/20081/thread" author="@charliem" timestamp="1459450318"][font size="3"]Interesting idea, batteries on the rear. The factory bumper should be fine. The batteries, though heavier, will not impose the torque load that cantilevered bicycles do. You'll have to make the rack and really tie them down because they'll get more whiplash back there than on the tongue. David's correct on wire size though I'd go with #8 or even #6 copper. Easily obtained at home improvement stores. Geometry being what it is you gain almost a pound for every pound you take off the tongue and you gain another 1/2 pound for every pound you hang on the bumper. Put 2 golfers on the back, wire it with heavy wire, and you're ready to go off the grid. Add solar someday and we won't hear from you for months.  8-)     

Camp on!
[/font][/quote]
My current (wild) plan is to ultimately end up with 2 golfers on the back.

But for now, I can wire my existing 12v spare on the rear bumper as a "proof of concept".

Rough plan is a 2GA cable or braided cable from the negative terminal to the frame. Then run a 2GA copper cable from the positive terminal, under the trailer to the front. Install a marine battery switch there to select between batteries in use. Not as efficient as running it to the converter, but I don't expect much drop from the 2GA wire.

I assume some sort of heavy duty fuse or breaker at the battery is a good idea. If so, what would be suggested for that application?

Idle hands, and all that!

Yes, a fuse near the battery is a good idea even though I don't think there is one on the front battery. The general rule is the fuse is sized to protect the wire, which in your case #2 is good for 200 amps which is more than you will ever see except for a fault. But your wiring scheme has it going forward to the front battery which is only wired with 10 gauge to the converter and the power distribution panel, so use a 30 amp fuse.

I appreciate that you want to wire to the forward battery so you can then use a spdt switch up there to select which battery is supplying the trailer. I would prefer wiring the new battery directly to the converter/DC panel and switch each battery separately.

Finally I assume that the existing DC system uses the frame as a ground, but where does it tie in. At the converter, at the forward battery, or ?

Electricity is complex isn't it? Charlie will probably have better ideas.

David

[font size="3"]Boy, we're getting deep into it here. It's time for Eddie, Charlie and David to get out on the road!

Eddie, your plan sounds OK. #2 is probably overkill; #4 would suffice. I think the OEM battery and converter are wired with #6 or #8, but too hard to tell. Either way the 30A fuse will work fine, but a 40A would be OK too. I might prefer the 40 in case you charge sometime with jumpers to the TV. Normal use a on board charging will be fine with 30A. An A,B (either) battery switch will be fine, just remember to switch it to the unused battery when charging. With the chassis as return and #4 or #2 connecting them you could even use an A,B,A+B (either or both) with very little loss of life (the battery's). That would also increase your usable capacity slightly, thanks to Mr. Peukert.

The chassis is grounded to the 12V system. I think the connection is to a bus behind the converter, but not sure.

BTW your fridge heater switch brings new meaning to the term Floating Switch  ;)  .
[/font]

Thanks for the rapid responses...

1) I thought of 2GA because of prior voiced concerns about voltage drop over a 20+ foot run. If 4GA is sufficient, it's likely to be cheaper and easier to route. Certainly all the stock wires are rather on the thin side, anyway.

2) This battery switch gets good reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Selector-Battery/dp/B000K2MCR2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461186669&sr=8-1&keywords=marine+battery+selector+switch

So, placing it on "1+2" while driving would charge both batteries safely? Even if they had different ratings or states of charge?  I had thought to choose one or the other depending on state of charge.

3) Switch is not floating any more!


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1681/26547713335_26e8ce2145_k.jpg)

Quote from: @fasteddieb" source="/post/20720/thread" timestamp="1461187089
1) I thought of 2GA because of prior voiced concerns about voltage drop over a 20+ foot run. If 4GA is sufficient, it's likely to be cheaper and easier to route. Certainly all the stock wires are rather on the thin side, anyway.

2) This battery switch gets good reviews:

[a href="http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Selector-Battery/dp/B000K2MCR2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461186669&sr=8-1&keywords=marine+battery+selector+switch"]http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Selector-Battery/dp/B000K2MCR2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461186669&sr=8-1&keywords=marine+battery+selector+switch[/a]

So, placing it on "1+2" while driving would charge both batteries safely? Even if they had different ratings or states of charge?  I had thought to choose one or the other depending on state of charge.

3) Switch is not floating any more!

[font size="3"]1) 20Ft jumper cables equals 40Ft of cable. Two way loss. 4AWG is fine for you with the frame return. Charging while driving is primarily limited by the OEM wiring in TV and TT. I carry 20Ft 4AWG copper cables.

2) The Blue Sea switch is excellent. Leave it in 1+2 when charging or using the batteries. Only reason to use one or the other separately is for diagnostics or failure. The charge/discharge should be very near equal. Separate them and charge separately at home every now and then to assure complete charge. You'll probably do more damage by trying to keep track of which separate battery to use and recharge.

3) Fridge switch looks good if it stays.[/font]

Quote from: @david" source="/post/20717/thread" timestamp="1461183850Yes, a fuse near the battery is a good idea even though I don't think there is one on the front battery. The general rule is the fuse is sized to protect the wire, which in your case #2 is good for 200 amps which is more than you will ever see except for a fault. But your wiring scheme has it going forward to the front battery which is only wired with 10 gauge to the converter and the power distribution panel, so use a 30 amp fuse.

I appreciate that you want to wire to the forward battery so you can then use a spdt switch up there to select which battery is supplying the trailer. I would prefer wiring the new battery directly to the converter/DC panel and switch each battery separately.

Finally I assume that the existing DC system uses the frame as a ground, but where does it tie in. At the converter, at the forward battery, or ?

Electricity is complex isn't it? Charlie will probably have better ideas.

David

It is not simply a frame return.

Negative battery lead proceeds to frame directly, at that node to another 10AWG and that runs to converter area where it ties into the ground block, again connected to the floor. So there is more than just the frame and floor as the return. There is a return 10AWG conductor as well as the 10AWG positive lead.

When I rewired to 6AWG I did both wires. Was concerned if I had a ground loop going on or not. In the end I kept the original 10AWG and added 6AWG giving me 5AWG or better because of the frame return.

I received the battery select switch and its pretty impressive. Claimed to be waterproof and spray proof.

Physically mounted it just now:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1454/26559410051_f22518e79b_c.jpg)



Will work on the wiring over the next week, once I get the wire and the fuse block I ordered. While I'm at it I may fuse the front battery as well.

Once its all hooked up, if the switch is on "1+2", both batteries will in effect be in parallel. In that state, they would both equalize, correct? And they would charge together, whether it was from shore power or the car or a charger - solar or otherwise - hooked to one or the other, correct?

I ask, because I had really intended to "manage" the batteries, always with one or the other selected, but charliem questioned the necessity.

[font size="3"]Eddie,

They will not charge/discharge exactly equally, but they'll be close enough. If you trace the wiring to and from each battery to the converter you'll see there are some differences. The front battery has a run of #6 in the both positive and negative back to the converter. The rear battery shares that positive run but adds the longer run of #4 you ran back. However the rear battery has essentially no wire to the negative since, I think, you wired directly to the frame. I think you can assume the converter is connected directly to the frame in the center of the trailer. So the difference is the resistance of the long #4 positive vs the shorter #6 in the negative of the front battery. I think we're splitting hairs. Go with it. If you really want to be perfect, and you have time and beers available, you can physically switch the battery pairs from time to time.  :(    I wouldn't. I think you'll do more harm by trying to use and switch them manually.

Camp on!
[/font]

Progress report...

Yesterday I picked up 30' of 4GA copper power cable and some terminals. Ran the wire under the trailer to the back.

Today got the rear battery hooked up, with a 30A "maxi" fuse:


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1561/26670675786_5634266d6d_z.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1457/26670672826_d7e312a891_z.jpg)So, I've just about doubled my total battery capacity, and actually reduced tongue weight a hair. Of course, picked up a little total weight. but I can live with that.

Quote from: @fasteddieb" source="/post/20868/thread" timestamp="1461864722
Works as advertised! All I'll need to do is finish wiring the front when the second fuse block arrives from Amazon.

So, I've just about doubled my total battery capacity, and actually reduced tongue weight a hair. Of course, picked up a little total weight. but I can live with that.

[font size="3"]Looking good, Eddie. And your Flex will thank you a bit.......[/font]

Done!


(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7544/26724435722_a225146263_z.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7315/26212762524_d51028dd02_z.jpg"]

Seems to work as intended.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

I will be ordering a solar panel in about a week. Eventually may go to two 6v golf cart batteries on the rear bumper - that should be easy since I have plenty of room for another battery box.

Good looking work! If you left the 30 amp fuses in the fuse holders, it would make me happier if you carried a couple 40 amp spares with you. For heavy DC use, 30 amps might be marginal and 40 would give you a cushion. With the "superwire" you used, you could safely go even higher on the fuse rating.

[quote timestamp="1462404810" source="/post/20999/thread" author="@sandroad"]Good looking work! If you left the 30 amp fuses in the fuse holders, it would make me happier if you carried a couple 40 amp spares with you. For heavy DC use, 30 amps might be marginal and 40 would give you a cushion. With the "superwire" you used, you could safely go even higher on the fuse rating.[/quote]
Thanks!

The 30A was either suggested earlier in this thread or a wild guess.

1) Is there any way a 21BHS could possibly draw more than 30A? I recall someone posted a spreadsheet of the current draws of each item - I would not mind seeing that again.

2) To be fair, these fuses are not only protecting the huuuge 4GA wire, but also the much smaller wires running from the battery selector switch to the converter.

3) Probably not a bad idea to carry some 40 amp as well, just in case.

As an aside, both batteries now have 2-conductor trailer plugs attached, wired through their own fuse holders:


(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7182/26857039805_ca3279b4ac.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7074/26252817463_090583a7f5.jpg"]

That voltage is with the trailer hooked up to shore power and maintaining battery charge.

I went ahead and got the Renogy 100W portable panels that came with controller, supports and carrying case. Added about $60 for the case and supports, but I thought it worth it.

Everything seems robust and well designed.

Got it set up this weekend:


(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7111/27178653205_815bbfcdc6_z.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7560/27145520976_1ba775d2ce_z.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/27145516266_9fe1e10a7e.jpg"]

Charge to the batteries:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7373/27178658305_e2b028bf48.jpg"]

Status screen:


(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/27145518636_49d9e0ed97.jpg)Now, just need to go boondocking! Will report as to how effective it is in real life.

Was it this kit? http://amzn.to/1qFiIOs

Quote from: @admin" timestamp="1464030018" source="/post/21432/threadWas it this kit? http://amzn.to/1qFiIOs

That's the exact item.

I've had that pop up in my searches a few times; I liked the looks of it. How does it feel? I've had a few solar items in the past that just feel cheap, and usually last about as long as you'd expect with that same feeling.

-Sean

I'm guessing these batteries were mostly or fully charged when you took the pictures of the controller?

[quote timestamp="1464033887" author="@mitch" source="/post/21435/thread"]I'm guessing these batteries were mostly or fully charged when you took the pictures of the controller?[/quote]Yes, the trailer had been on 30A shore power, so they should have been maintained at or near full charge.

Quote from: @admin" timestamp="1464032245" source="/post/21434/threadI've had that pop up in my searches a few times; I liked the looks of it. How does it feel? I've had a few solar items in the past that just feel cheap, and usually last about as long as you'd expect with that same feeling.

-Sean

Feels very solid and well made.

Downside? Awfully heavy. The manual says 27.65 lbs but sure feels heavier to me - I'll weigh them next time I'm down at the trailer.

BTW, manual can be found here: http://www.renogy.com/wp-content/uploads/Manuals/60W-100W-12V-Monocrystalline-Portable-Solar-Suitcase-Manual.pdf

Sean, fasteddieb -

We also use the Renogy 100 watt suitcase style solar panel.  This is a stout unit, nothing cheap or plastic about it and it works well.  We use this unit to keep the battery charged on our 8.1 as we mainly camp in the national park system where shore power is not available.  We will be really putting this unit to the test in the next few weeks as we will be traveling west and doing some real boondocking in nonestablished camping areas.

Steve

Fasteddie- looks like a great setup. Can you use that for more than just charging your house battery? In other words, can you run any 110v items or appliances in your trailer (with an inverter)? If not, how large would your system have to be to run the television and microwave? And how large would it have to be to run the air conditioning? Thanks!

gbpack:

It would take a large inverter, 2,000 watts at least to run the A/C and an even bigger battery bank- 8 golf cart batteries to run the A/C over night. And the even bigger problem is how to replace the 400 amp hours it would take to recharge them for the next night- about 10 times his 100 watts of panels.

Fasteddie's system is big enough to run a television for a few hours at night or even a microwave for a few minutes to warm up a cup of coffee. A 1,000 watt inverter would handle both but not at the same time.

Again the problem will be recharging. His 100 watts of panels will charge about 30 amp hours in full sun for a day. That will cover TV watching and microwave usage as well as some margin for cloudy days.

David

We stay at a place in Colorado where I don't have electricity in my campsite but there is some nearby where I could always pull the battery and re charge it with a charger.

I got three days with the 24 size battery using the furnace in the morning, lights, water pump, television, etc. The fridge is on propane, we still had plenty of juice leftover.

The battery is a little over three years old and I decided to get a new one and carry the old battery as a spare, I narrowed it down to an Interstate brand and the EverStart from Wal Mart, I decided to go with the Wal Mart 27DC because it is only a few more dollars than the 24DC (size not volts). I figured there is a Wal Mart just about everywhere in case I had an issue with it.

If I had the space I would have gone with the two Trojan 240ah 6 volt batteries.

I also picked up a 1000 watt inverter to use with the extra battery for use with a blender for margaritas (450 watts) ,coffee percolator (500 watts), toaster (700 watts).

I looked at the solar panels also, but will wait until we do more long term boon-docking, I really like the Zamp and GoPower folding portable solar kits although a little pricey.


http://www.zampsolar.com/rv-solar-kits/portable-rv-solar/

http://gpelectric.com/products/portable-solar-kits

Quote from: @dana" source="/post/21443/thread" timestamp="1464043143Sean, fasteddieb -

We also use the Renogy 100 watt suitcase style solar panel.  This is a stout unit, nothing cheap or plastic about it and it works well.  We use this unit to keep the battery charged on our 8.1 as we mainly camp in the national park system where shore power is not available.  We will be really putting this unit to the test in the next few weeks as we will be traveling west and doing some real boondocking in nonestablished camping areas.

Steve

I have the same setup with my QS 6.0. I have no complaints, I have stayed out for 6 days in Utah mountains and even on cloudy days, I am able to run lights, charge phones and cameras, also a 12 v TV with Powered HD antenna ( I can't go cold turkey from the news).

Michael