I've got a brand new 21BHS. 3 Window latches on one window won't close. See picture. Any suggestions?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sdar615km3uyvjs/Screenshot%202016-01-14%2014.52.12.png?dl=0
I've compared to my other windows and I can't seem to tell what's wrong other than the part screwed to the window frame needs to be moved out. No matter how hard I pull in on it it won't close. Any harder and I'd break the "glass".
Thanks.
Brian
[font size="3"]bgewin,
The problem is the fixed part of the latch is mispositioned. I had the same problem on several windows. The engagement should look like this:
[attachment id="1102" thumbnail="1"]
There is also a position that locks the window slightly open for ventilation:
[attachment id="1103" thumbnail="1"]
The fixed piece of the latch needs to be raised by about 1/4". If you look closely you'll see a spacer I made of 1/4" wood and painted black. The latch should not engage per your picture. It should engage per my first two pictures, but should not engage in the place your picture shows. This pictures shows that.
[attachment id="1104" thumbnail="1"]
I advised the factory of this, but that was long ago in a place far way. DO NOT force the latch. It should engage smoothly and securely. Let us know how it works for you.
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Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/17759/thread" timestamp="1452811645[font size="3"]bgewin,
The problem is the fixed part of the latch is mispositioned. I had the same problem on several windows. The engagement should look like this:
There is also a position that locks the window slightly open for ventilation:
The fixed piece of the latch needs to be raised by about 1/4". If you look closely you'll see a spacer I made of 1/4" wood and painted black. The latch should not engage per your picture. It should engage per my first two pictures, but should not engage in the place your picture shows. This pictures shows that.
I advised the factory of this, but that was long ago in a place far way. DO NOT force the latch. It should engage smoothly and securely.
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Thank you very much. I appreciate the thorough response.
[font size="3"]You're very welcome, Brian. It's a free service of this forum. ;)
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Ha! I never knew about the ventilation position! Thanks
[quote source="/post/17764/thread" timestamp="1452818384" author="@mitch"]Ha! I never knew about the ventilation position! Thanks[/quote][font size="3"]Complements of the management 8-) [/font]
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/17765/thread" timestamp="1452818486Quote from: @mitch" timestamp="1452818384" source="/post/17764/threadHa! I never knew about the ventilation position! Thanks
[font size="3"]Complements of the management 8-) [/font]
And compliments to you. I need to do your mod on one of my latches and now I know about the ventilation position!
[quote source="/post/17764/thread" timestamp="1452818384" author="@mitch"]Ha! I never knew about the ventilation position! Thanks[/quote]Same for me lol!
Dang, now I need a good weather day to go unzip the door cover and check mine too. Didn't even look at all of them this past camping season.
[quote source="/post/17764/thread" timestamp="1452818384" author="@mitch"]Ha! I never knew about the ventilation position! Thanks[/quote]I didn't either. Nice feature. I also noticed the locks on the windows in the bunks. Another nice feature so the kids are less likely to roll out onto the ground.
It is a sad thing that I learn more about my camper from this board than I do from my dealer.
[quote source="/post/17758/thread" timestamp="1452808414" author="@bgewin"]I've got a brand new 21BHS. 3 Window latches on one window won't close. See picture. Any suggestions?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sdar615km3uyvjs/Screenshot%202016-01-14%2014.52.12.png?dl=0
I've compared to my other windows and I can't seem to tell what's wrong other than the part screwed to the window frame needs to be moved out. No matter how hard I pull in on it it won't close. Any harder and I'd break the "glass".
Thanks.
Brian[/quote]Same problem here, one one window, one latch was installed correctly the other was like yours, an easy fix, but why was it allowed to leave the factory in this condition. My trailer had more then a couple of QC issues, nothing major, but still, they were issues that should have been noticed before departing the factory, or the dealership for that matter.
When I looked at my windows after reading this thread I noticed that all of the bottom latches don't really align but that the side latches are good. It seems then that the window openings are cut slightly to large. Charlie fixed it by raising his bottom latch with a small wood shim I believe. I'll take the technerd approach and 3-D print some plastic shims to accomplish what he did. I'm sure it will take much longer and be more complex than the wood shim approach but hey, that's what technerds do.
Hey, you could sell them as a quick fix. 8^)
[quote source="/post/17997/thread" timestamp="1453740438" author="@pjcd"]Hey, you could sell them as a quick fix. 8^)[/quote]
If you did I would probably buy 3. I'm asking the factory for a fix mostly out of principle. I can't imagine why they would allow such an obvious problem to leave the factory. I'll let everyone know if/when/what I hear back from them.
Once I test them out I'll let you guys know!
I just pulled one out, it appears a simple shim won't do much. The window part hits directly on the top of the frame part so shimming it will simply prevent the window part from turning. It really needs to be shimmed and offset towards the window about the width of the screw holding it in. Unfortunately that means I'd have to drill new screw holes right next to the existing ones. Any thoughts? Conceivably I could recreate the entire frame part in any configuration I want but the plastic I use gets a bit droopy when the temperatures get high. I had a part in my car once that drooped during the summer, didn't melt but it was soft.
(//)
[font size="3"]Mitch,
Are you sure it won't work? The red part has a slight hook to it and, along with the wedge part of the black piece, should pull the window in and compress the gasket. It is designed to put some compression force on the gasket. If you look at my third picture, which is unlocked and uncompressed, it looks like it might show the same hit point as yours without the shim.
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I agree with Charlie. I think the shim will work and the "ramp" will pull it in. Mine look exactly the same as Mitch's.
[p]Mitch,
As the above posters have said "it should be a tight fit" Compare it with the other windows?? If you do actually need to make a mechanical adjustment:
It appears that you need to go both up and out, says Mr. obvious. Here's one possible solution using aluminum bar stock. I'm not going into too much detail but the desired raise appears to be 3/8 to 1/2 inch. A short length of 1/4 and 1/8 x 1 in. bar stock, used in combination, should put you in the ballpark. Drill the new holes as "through holes" in the shim block, but use shorter screws that won't touch the sill plate, as you don't want a bunch of extra holes in the sill, just in case you have to redo the shim block several times, to get it spot on.
[/p][p]
[/p][p][attachment id="1118" thumbnail="1"][/p]
Here's my prototype, I'll go drill some holes in it and hopefully it'll work as you guys suggest. I'll let you know in a bit.
[img src="https://ss.prbrds.com/s/10398/5560398/t/Bc0VhYEV93vkqSlRtUrr.jpg"]
[img src="https://ss.prbrds.com/s/10398/5560398/t/bxyGVHqhuluOyvxJ6UAn.jpg"]
[img src="https://ss.prbrds.com/s/10398/5560398/t/DnQtKwrkd4AnhKAVXRnQ.jpg"]
Well what do you know, it worked as designed. If it doesn't melt in the summer heat it's a winner.
[attachment id="1122" thumbnail="1"]
[p]OOOoooo, I missed the part about the 3D printer. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Addendum: Come to think of it, I do have a 3D printer of early design, out in the barn, it's called a vertical milling machine. The only drawback is that I can't go have lunch while the part is in process. [/p]
Quote from: @mitch" source="/post/18008/thread" timestamp="1453756699Well what do you know, it worked as designed. If it doesn't melt in the summer heat it's a winner.
Very cool. Nice work. Sell those back to LivinLite.
I'll sell them to folks on this board if they really want. $2 each sound fair? plus whatever the post office charges to get them to you.
That's more than fair. I'd like to see the factory solve this problem but I also want windows that latch. I'll PM you with address, payment, etc. Thanks!!
[quote source="/post/18008/thread" timestamp="1453756699" author="@mitch"]Well what do you know, it worked as designed. If it doesn't melt in the summer heat it's a winner.
[/quote]Super job. If you are worried about the heat install a Fantastic fan with a thermostat and crack a window. We had to do that in ours to get past the Nevada heat in summer. Got tired of reattaching command strip hangers every time we used our camper.
Hey guys!!
Passed this to our head of production to see what the fix is. I copied quite a few pictures from this thread to show them :-)
Will let you know what I hear!
[quote timestamp="1453759215" author="@christianm" source="/post/18014/thread"]Hey guys!!
Passed this to our head of production to see what the fix is. I copied quite a few pictures from this thread to show them :-)
Will let you know what I hear!
[/quote][font size="3"]I notified Jack Filley by telephone at LL in June 2014. [/font]
[font size="3"]From my notes:[/font] [font size="3"]Jack also noted my comments on the mis-adjusted window latches and will pass them on to production. Apparently they completely assemble each window in the factory. I thought they would come assembled and just had to be mounted. [/font]
[quote source="/post/18007/thread" timestamp="1453755565" author="@mitch"]Here's my prototype, I'll go drill some holes in it and hopefully it'll work as you guys suggest. I'll let you know in a bit.
[img src="https://ss.prbrds.com/s/10398/5560398/t/Bc0VhYEV93vkqSlRtUrr.jpg"]
[img src="https://ss.prbrds.com/s/10398/5560398/t/bxyGVHqhuluOyvxJ6UAn.jpg"]
[img src="https://ss.prbrds.com/s/10398/5560398/t/DnQtKwrkd4AnhKAVXRnQ.jpg"]
[/quote][font size="3"]That is just too cool, even including the knurled anti-skid surface. Obviously some prior experience showing here. Good job, Mitch. [/font]
[quote source="/post/18009/thread" timestamp="1453756911" author="@james"][p]OOOoooo, I missed the part about the 3D printer. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Addendum: Come to think of it, I do have a 3D printer of early design, out in the barn, it's called a vertical milling machine. The only drawback is that I can't go have lunch while the part is in process. [/p][/quote][font size="3"]James,
The mill will work great, but you need to upgrade to CNC before lunch. ;)
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I suspect Mitch is about to get a bunch of PMs with addresses. :o
Mitch, do you have a choice of material, or is it inherent in 3-D printing that high temps soften things
[quote source="/post/18023/thread" timestamp="1453769470" author="@sandroad"]I suspect Mitch is about to get a bunch of PMs with addresses. :o
Mitch, do you have a choice of material, or is it inherent in 3-D printing that high temps soften things [/quote]My machine only prints in a plastic called PLA (Polylactic acid, an organic based material oddly enough) and I really don't anticipate a problem with parts deforming. Given where it will be, even though it could be hot it shouldn't be subject to forces that cause it to bend.
If anyone is interested in picking up a few just message me your address, I'll print them up and send them to you. $2.00 each plus postage, send me money after you get them and are satisfied they fit your need. You can pay via Paypal instant money transfer if you have that type of account or simply send me a check. We're not talking big money here so I'm not too worried about it.
Looks great, my only concern is that the hight might vary depending on the window, look good though!
On my windows all the bottom latches were pretty much the same amount out of place. The shim raises them 5 mm which in my case leaves about 5 mm more room before they would be to high, but you're right, it could be different on another camper. If you did need a few I can change the height of the shim pretty easily.
[font face="arial" size="3"]Mitch,
I take it, with your new thriving business, you have prepared the requisite MSDS and OSHA, IRS, EPA, DOT, DOJ, DOD, FDA, SEC, SBA and 8A certifications and a statement that your product has been found to cause cancer in California ;)
Camp on. [/font]
Certainly but I believe the following blanket statement covers most of pertinent details:
This product is made from PLA, PLA is a corn based product so you should only eat it with butter and salt, light on the salt if you have high blood pressure. Do not use this product if you are allergic to increased height. Do not use this product without first checking with your window manufacturer. Stop using this product and contact your window manufacturer if you feel increased air flow even though the window is closed. This product may interact with other window related products. Contact your window manufacturer if your window remains open for more than 4 hours as this could be a sign of a serious problem.
[font size="3"]Yep. That about gets it.........[/font]
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/18015/thread" timestamp="1453762285Quote from: @christianm" source="/post/18014/thread" timestamp="1453759215Hey guys!!
Passed this to our head of production to see what the fix is. I copied quite a few pictures from this thread to show them :-)
Will let you know what I hear!
[font size="3"]I notified Jack Filley by telephone at LL in June 2014. [/font]
[font size="3"]From my notes:[/font] [font size="3"]Jack also noted my comments on the mis-adjusted window latches and will pass them on to production. Apparently they completely assemble each window in the factory. I thought they would come assembled and just had to be mounted. [/font]
I got essentially the same answer, but from a different person. ;-| also, got this : "There are two ways that this can be resolved, first if the latch is too tight the black catch can be moved out toward the window. Second if the issue is that the latch does not come down close enough to the catch a small shim can be placed under the black catch to raise it up."
No answer or reply on WHY it's messed up in the first place though. Will continue this up the ladder, if I can.
....Would like to see this fixed going forward before it ever leaves the factory!
Just wanted to check in with the minor update :D
Hey Christian,
You can't easily move the black catch out towards the window. The catch wouldn't need to be moved very much and you'd need to drill new holes for the catch screws. The new screw holes would probably overlap with the old ones leaving you with an oval that wouldn't hold the catch in place very well. It would take some filling of the old holes or a plate to cover the old holes to make that particular fix decent.
The shim solution works fine.
Mitch
The answer I got from the factory was..... "you should be able to add a washer under each screw to lift up latch so it will catch".
No offer to send me washers not to mention a rather unprofessional solution. I'm not trying to bash the company but for what I considered to be a premium product at a premium price I was expecting a bit more.
[quote source="/post/18404/thread" timestamp="1454686728" author="@christianm"]Second if the issue is that the latch does not come down close enough to the catch a small shim can be placed under the black catch to raise it up."
[/quote][font size="3"]Boing! [attachment id="1162" thumbnail="1"] And we paid 30K for this? But thanks for the update, Christian.
Mitch is right, the redrill is not likely to succeed. And the washers suggested to bgewin? My experience required a 1/4" spacer. That's a big stack of washers and would require pretty big washers to provide the required strength >:( .
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I just corrected this on my 14DBS, it was only bad on the large window in the slide all 3 on the bottom had to have washers added. The one on the left didn't even make contact to the latch so had to add 5 washers on each screw, the middle and right side I added 3 to have better contact.
BTW, Mitch's solution works well and he works cheap. The disclaimer he provided above was the last thing I needed to have complete confidence in his work.