I just took a quick look at the web page and saw that the model line-up is changing. Gone is the 13 altogether, and only the 11 and 14 are available without a slide. I have to say it really looks like big corporation minimizing options and maximizing profits.
10.19.15
Seems the list of options has shrunk also. No more XL package as most of those upgrade options are now part of the base package. Fantastic fans are now an option. As is the off road package and a power awning I noticed while at the factory. Both things I would have picked if available when I ordered mine.
CAMPLITE 21BHS TRAVEL TRAILER STANDARDS
* ALL ALUMINUM STRUCTURE
* .040 ALUMINUM LAMINATED SIDEWALLS
* ONE PIECE LAMINATED ALUMINUM ROOF
* DOMETIC C5 WINDOWS W/ INTEGRATED DAY NITE SHADES & VALANCES
* BLACK EXTERIOR TRIM
* PARCHMENT EARTH AZDEL WALL BOARD
* CAMPLITE GRAPHICS
* FULL ALUMINUM SUBFLOOR W/ DÉCOR MATCHED VINYL FLOORING
* (3) 12V VORTEX CEILING VENTS
* 13.5K BTU LOW PROFILE PENGUIN A/C
* ALUMINUM FRAMED CABINETRY WITH STILE FRONTS AND WOOD DOORS
* SOLID SURFACE COUNTERTOP WITH STAINLESS STEEL SINK
* INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR LED LIGHTING
* 14 FT. MANUAL AWNING
* CONVECTION MICROWAVE
* SPARE TIRE
* A/V PACKAGE ?AM/FM/DVD BLUETOOTH STEREO SYS, DIGITIAL TV ANTENNA,
TV SWIVEL BRACKET, CABLE HOOKUP, AND 12V/110 OUTLETS
* QUEEN BED
* DRY BATH W/SKYLITE , CERAMIC TOILET
* 73" DINETTE & TABLE IN SLIDE OUT W/SLIDE OUT TOPPER
* 30.5 GAL. FRESH / 32 GA. GRAY / 28 GAL. BLK W/ BACK FLUSH KIT TANK MONITOR PANEL, SEWER HOSE CADDY & EXTERNAL SHOWER
* FIRE EXTINGUISHER AND SMOKE DETECTOR
* LP ? FURN, 6 GAL. COMBO ELECT/LP WH, 7CF 2?WAY REFER, 2 BURNER COOKTOP,
LP AND CO2 DETECTOR, (2) 20LB. LP TANKS & BOTTLE COVER
* (2)?3500 LB. ELECTRIC BRAKE AXLES W/ 14 TIRES AND ALUMINUM RIMS
CAMPLITE 21BHS TRAVEL TRAILER OPTIONS
* 22" LED TV
* POWER AWNING W/LED LIGHTING
* FANTASTIC FAN
* POWER TONGUE JACK
* DUAL 30LB. LP TANKS IPO STANDARD 20LB. LP TANKS * OFFROAD PACKAGE W/ALL TERRAIN TIRES
Yes, the only options we took on our new 21BHS were the power jack, the Fantastic Fans, and the off-road package. Very happy with all of them.
Actually, it looks more like some adults came in and figured out what was selling, what was costing more than they made, and trimmed out the dead weight.
Camplites are no longer such a novelty that they can ship just about anything and it will sell.
Offering options has a cost, and it looks like they are just making more of the options standard. Better for the manufacturer, better for the consumer. I don't think I *ever* saw one without the XL package, so why bother gumming up the production line ?
Big corporations can't afford to have unprofitable products, and small corporations REALLY can't afford to have unprofitable products. They all need to put their effort into that which brings the biggest return. Maximizing profit = smart = survival.
The list of standard and optional features Ammobob posted really looks good. IMHO, these are significant improvements. What will really help sell the Camplite brand and lineup at these high price-points over the long term is to become the very best at quality control in construction and delivery.
[quote source="/post/17052/thread" author="@pinstriper" timestamp="1449715580"]Actually, it looks more like some adults came in and figured out what was selling, what was costing more than they made, and trimmed out the dead weight.
Camplites are no longer such a novelty that they can ship just about anything and it will sell.
Offering options has a cost, and it looks like they are just making more of the options standard. Better for the manufacturer, better for the consumer. I don't think I *ever* saw one without the XL package, so why bother gumming up the production line ?
Big corporations can't afford to have unprofitable products, and small corporations REALLY can't afford to have unprofitable products. They all need to put their effort into that which brings the biggest return. Maximizing profit = smart = survival.
[/quote]Agreed to a point, but I do believe that corporations with good products can be as flexible as they want. There is quite a difference between maximizing profits for the sake of profits and maximizing profits so that you can give the customer what they want. You say potato I say potatoe (I learnt that word from Dan Quail)
[quote source="/post/17055/thread" timestamp="1449718513" author="@mitch"][quote source="/post/17052/thread" timestamp="1449715580" author="@pinstriper"]Actually, it looks more like some adults came in and figured out what was selling, what was costing more than they made, and trimmed out the dead weight.
Camplites are no longer such a novelty that they can ship just about anything and it will sell.
Offering options has a cost, and it looks like they are just making more of the options standard. Better for the manufacturer, better for the consumer. I don't think I *ever* saw one without the XL package, so why bother gumming up the production line ?
Big corporations can't afford to have unprofitable products, and small corporations REALLY can't afford to have unprofitable products. They all need to put their effort into that which brings the biggest return. Maximizing profit = smart = survival.
[/quote]Agreed to a point, but I do believe that corporations with good products can be as flexible as they want. There is quite a difference between maximizing profits for the sake of profits and maximizing profits so that you can give the customer what they want. You say potato I say potatoe (I learnt that word from Dan Quail)[/quote]That point of view makes a great deal of sense, but only to people who have never been responsible for a bottom line in a business.
Look at it this way: Every dollar of expense is really money that is tied up in an investment. You want - no, you NEED to that investment to be the one with the best return. If you don't, someone else is going to come along and make that other, better investment. When that happens, you go out of business, and they don't.
You can ascribe some sort of greed motive around all that, but here's the real deal. If LL's owership didn't think they could make more money running it than selling it to Thor, they would still be running it. They knew otherwise, so they cashed out for themselves. Thor is taking a sensible business approach - eliminate inefficient uses of capital, focus effort on the areas of strength, and then add their financial and other clout behind the pieces that make the most sense. In other words, they are maximizing the profit potential that the prior owners were either unable to see, unwilling to wait for, or unwilling to take a chance on versus the sure thing of the payout.
As evidenced by my and other members' experiences buying one of the dropped models at "fire sale pricing" I think LL has done a good job identifying it's most undesirable models. I also think they have made smart decisions related to the use of warmer wood cabinetry for appearance.
As far as options "for free" goes there is much more to the story than just throughput. The price of Aluminum has tanked making the materials cost of the LL line go way down. This has helped allow Thor Industries to purchase one of the main component suppliers to LL, Postle Operating LLC. What does Postle do? They manufacture aluminum extrusions. They make the decking for all LL's. Probably the square tubing too...
The real answer to maximizing profits is a sum of all parts. IF you can manage to manufacture all of your parts with expertise and efficiency then you are King, or in the case of Thor...a Nordic god.
No more 13' models? Well I guess my Jeff Foxworthy 13QBB just got even more "exclusive". lol But I do agree that it makes sense to trim the model line...although it's interesting that in the car/truck world the exact opposite is happening as manufacturers fall over themselves trying to create another niche model to fill every conceivable consumer choice.
Graham
I think the ticket for more sales is to have Camplites sold at all Camping World outlets. Thor owns BOTH companies. I had to travel almost FIVE hours to purchase my trailer. Although D&H was great to work with, the round trip involved was a real, costly pain, whenever I needed warranty work. They didn't carry the 21 RBS. Getting warranty work done there was iffy, as they weren't familiar with the trailer. Thor can remedy that easily.
[font size="3"]When Thor bought LL I thought the dealer network would expand, maybe including CW. For the one time I needed warranty work LL pre-coordinated and agreed to accept the CW billing. Unfortunately CW didn't understand the gray water vent problem and failed to fix it, but other work at CW has been quite acceptable. They seem to have a competent shop. However, with CW's emphasis on high end "mobile Hiltons" I wonder how much sales attention LLs would get. [/font]
[quote source="/post/17061/thread" timestamp="1449755806" author="@gleamb"]I think the ticket for more sales is to have Camplites sold at all Camping World outlets. Thor owns BOTH companies.[/quote]I was not able to verify this. I see that Good Sam owns it and could not see where Thor owns Good Sam.
[quote source="/post/17060/thread" timestamp="1449755352" author="@graham"]No more 13' models? Well I guess my Jeff Foxworthy 13QBB just got even more "exclusive". lol
[/quote]Yes, instead of a cover I considered an air tight glass enclosure with laser beams to protect my 16DB as it too is a dead model...and therefore is priceless. hehhehheh.
Have the original build sheet for my trailer and saw the Foxworthy Package as an option. Always wondered what that consisted of.
Quote from: @whoofit" source="/post/17063/thread" timestamp="1449757852[quote source="/post/17061/thread" timestamp="1449755806" author="@gleamb"]I think the ticket for more sales is to have Camplites sold at all Camping World outlets. Thor owns BOTH companies.
I was not able to verify this. I see that Good Sam owns it and could not see where Thor owns Good Sam.
[/quote]
Thor does not own Camping World.
[quote source="/post/17056/thread" timestamp="1449726259" author="@pinstriper"][quote source="/post/17055/thread" timestamp="1449718513" author="@mitch"]Agreed to a point, but I do believe that corporations with good products can be as flexible as they want. There is quite a difference between maximizing profits for the sake of profits and maximizing profits so that you can give the customer what they want. You say potato I say potatoe (I learnt that word from Dan Quail)[/quote]That point of view makes a great deal of sense, but only to people who have never been responsible for a bottom line in a business.
Look at it this way: Every dollar of expense is really money that is tied up in an investment. You want - no, you NEED to that investment to be the one with the best return. If you don't, someone else is going to come along and make that other, better investment. When that happens, you go out of business, and they don't.
You can ascribe some sort of greed motive around all that, but here's the real deal. If LL's owership didn't think they could make more money running it than selling it to Thor, they would still be running it. They knew otherwise, so they cashed out for themselves. Thor is taking a sensible business approach - eliminate inefficient uses of capital, focus effort on the areas of strength, and then add their financial and other clout behind the pieces that make the most sense. In other words, they are maximizing the profit potential that the prior owners were either unable to see, unwilling to wait for, or unwilling to take a chance on versus the sure thing of the payout.
[/quote]In fact I've had plenty of experience as the person responsible for the bottom line in a business. I stand by my comments.
[quote source="/post/17064/thread" timestamp="1449758183" author="@whoofit"][quote source="/post/17060/thread" timestamp="1449755352" author="@graham"]No more 13' models? Well I guess my Jeff Foxworthy 13QBB just got even more "exclusive". lol [/quote]
Have the original build sheet for my trailer and saw the Foxworthy Package as an option. Always wondered what that consisted of.
[/quote]
On my 13QBB "Foxworthy", it appears to have included about 6 exterior "Foxworthy Outdoors" decals (I removed all but one), and a 6" embroidered "Foxworthy Outdoors" logo on the jackknife sofa cushion. So far, I don't think anyone has noticed them...or if they have, they have been nice enough not to mention it to me. :D
-Graham