I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger to order a Camplite 21BHS with the off road package. I've done a lot of research and I like the minimalist style of the Camplites.
The only other brand/model I've truly considered is the Lance 2185. They are built well and seem to be true 4 season campers since the tanks are insulated.
I know I'm in a Camplite forum, but I was wondering if anyone would be willing to offer up some thoughts on the Lance and why they ultimately went with Camplite. Also, how much of a concern is it that the Camplite isn't really outfitted for 4 seasons like a Lance. This is our first travel trailer so I have a lot to learn from a practical use perspective.
I'm essentially doing one more round of second guessing before I make the final call and order the Camplite. Since it's not a small purchase, I'm attempting to cover all my bases.
Also, just a general thanks to everyone here. I've read a lot and asked a few questions. This has been a really helpful community.
Only aware of a few here that use their trailers year round in pretty cold temps. We do in New England. For a while I lusted over a 4 seasons trailer. Then I realized that unless I heated it throughout the winter or lived in it full time I would still need to winterize it after every trip anyways.
We do miss the "facilities" in the winter but it really is no big deal to us. The cost to heat and cool is pretty small for our length of stays so no real biggie there either. We feel better about the no wood, no steel frame to rot with salt brine construction and the light weight/cargo capacity of the LL. A small sacrifice to lose the facilities for 4 months out of the year.
Paying attention to the Refer is a must if you will use it in the deep winter.
What do you mean you miss the 'facilities' in the winter? I'm still a little green so does this mean you simply can't use the black and grey tanks?
Yes, no water at all. Of course that depends on where you live. You know...Mexico would be fine. Not sure of your locale. Another thing to consider, in the cold climates, is battery capacity. Climate controlled battery compartments do make a difference.
Ha, ok. We're down in Texas. Once you get down below 32, are you pretty much out of luck with regards to using all the tanks on Camplite? ...fresh water as well?
Pretty much. But really it is something like 28F and the duration of the cold matters as well. But to be safe yes because if the weatherman is off by 5F it's best to be safe. We take jugs of water for drinking, cooking and washing. Never anything down the drains...
I have winterized our trailer three times this season because it has been pretty mild. Last time was today for the duration of the winter.
I don't know the climate of Texas but a four season trailer down there may only need to be heated a dozen times per year to keep the pipes safe?
The Camplite should be able to handle an overnight down to the mid or even the low twenties with no trouble as long as it warms up quickly when the sun comes up. A couple of toilet flushes and run the sink for a few seconds in the middle of the night will keep the fresh water plumbing ok. Just don't leave in the morning in freezing temps. The wind chill at 60 mph will quickly freeze up the plumbing.
For colder temps there are several things you can do. Semi permanently you can attach a heavy non rotting fabric like is used to block grass growing to the underside. I'll bet it wouldn't be too hard to get into the furnace outlet and cut a small duct into the system through the floor to keep everything in the basement toasty. Short term you can wrap the outside to the ground with a tarp to keep the heat inside. I would be ok down to 20 degrees if I did the first or last of these things and lower if I had the furnace heat to the basement.
David
It gets cold here in December and January....down below 32 can happen in those months. Most of the time it is mild and then it gets crazy hot.
So in contrast, the Lance wouldn't have these issues and you could easily take it anywhere cold?
It is sounding like I have not done enough research and understanding of winterization. I'd be keeping it in a garage (not near our home) where we keep a Yamaha boat which doesn't really need to be winterized based on its motor design.
[font size="3"]I recently toured the Lance factory. I was primarily interested it the model 2285, but these observations should apply to the bunkhouse model.
[ol type="decimal"][li][font size="3"]I found the Lance very well designed and constructed.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The Lance is about 1000# heavier than the CL.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The dinette on the Lance is nicer and bigger and the table is steadier. However, I replaced my table with a wall attached version the fixed that problem.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]You will have to insulate the floor of the CL with rubber foam tiles; the Lance does not have this problem.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The Lance plumbing is all insulated; not so for the CL, but there are work arounds.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The Lance has better kitchen and bath countertops. Delamination is a problem on some CLs.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The Lance has wood in the floor. This is a real drawback. An undetected leak will eventually rot the floor; not a problem with the CL. Other decorative wood that is visible inside should not be a problem.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The Lance is longer and wider than the CL. This affets towing and access to small campsites.
[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The inability to carry bikes on the rear was a deal breaker for me. Lance recommends a bike rack on the tongue above the propane tanks, but it's too inconvenient for us old folks. I prefer the Swagman basket carrier on the rear. Lance will void their warranty if you do anything to the rear bumper.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The Lance bathroom was a deal breaker for me. The shower was a good 6" narrower than the CL and the toilet was much closer to the shower. Too tight. [/font][/li][li][font size="3"]The Lance does not lend itself to modifications as well as the CL Most electrical and plumbing are accessible on the CL.[/font][/li][li][font size="3"]There are many other points of comparison. Generally the Lance is a better cold weather camper, but you'll need more tow vehicle and the bath and bike situations were deal breakers for me. Besides, I already own and have significantly modified my CL. I wouldn't want to do all that over again. [/font][/li][/ol]
[/font]
Well even the best four season trailer mfgs have disclaimers on what their trailers are designed to do. They warn they have done their best but they don't claim it a can go anywhere that's cold as you say. Within reason applies but you would not be so vulnerable as not having a four season trailer.
Like the guys said above there are workarounds for most everything. The CL is a good canvas for those mods and the bones cannot be beat.
By the way, Texas sounds like a cake walk for a CL. Travelling between climates is a different story.
I don't care about a 4 season trailer because to go over the mountain passes would require chains on all 4 trailer wheels. I'm not so much a fool as to set out over a frozen pass with a trailer - chains or no chains.
You guys are great.
Charlie, your breakdown of the Lance is perfect.
Thank you guys so much.
Good summaries above. I would add emphasis to the issue of winter travel, as opposed to winter camping. You may not be thinking about cold weather camping in places that have snow and ice, but since I'm in Michigan, I do think about that. I would enjoy winter camping, even in an dry camping situation. But, I'm not going to pull a trailer on snowy, salty, icy roads, period. For the few times we've been slightly below freezing for a short time in early spring/late fall, our Camplite has had no problems with frozen pipes. So, 4 season travel with a trailer is not on my radar and I'm content spending the winter working on mods. One of which is to insulate the pipes, using Charlie's excellent examples/photos just posted.
Also, remember that the new CampLite's now have solid countertops so delamination is no longer a concern. And supposedly they are also doing some sealing of the underside as well, but I'm not exactly sure what that is and how they'll do it. But I remember the guy at the factory pointing that out to us as we walked through a tour of the production area in late summer. So there's a chance that it will handle the cold temps better. We'll find out when we pick up our new 21BHS on Tuesday and let you know.
Quote from: @gbpack" source="/post/16827/thread" timestamp="1448739278Also, remember that the new CampLite's now have solid countertops so delamination is no longer a concern. And supposedly they are also doing some sealing of the underside as well, but I'm not exactly sure what that is and how they'll do it. But I remember the guy at the factory pointing that out to us as we walked through a tour of the production area in late summer. So there's a chance that it will handle the cold temps better. We'll find out when we pick up our new 21BHS on Tuesday and let you know.
Congratulations on delivery of your Camplite! Let the fun begin!
Thanks Leslie! We'll be sure to send a picture after we pick it up from the dealer next week!
Hello,
I am sure you will be happy with your purchase.
We were in the same situation when we were looking at rigs as well. Our second choice was an Arctic Fox, true 4 season with all the bells and whistles. The Arctic Foxes are very popular here in Alberta Canada. But, they are very heavy and are full of wood. When we camp with our friends who own a Arctic Fox their trailer is always very comfortable in either hot or cold conditions. The components in the Fox IMO are much better quality than the LL. So, we tend to have to run our heaters to stay comfortable. From October to April we have to limit ourselves with powered sites / parks. Other times of year we are boondocking with no power. Even in the summer it is usual for temps to get down to freezing, typical mountain weather.
We regularly camp in temperatures of -12 C/ 10.4 F and are very cozy. But, we run our electric oil heater full time and have a small marine type heater in the bathroom. The furnace can't cut it in those temps. We have a 5 gallon container of water that will last three days and use a trick of lining our toilette with garbage bags and using a scoop of kitty litter really aids in that process. If you want to enjoy the outdoors you have to come up with ways to do it. Knowing we will be in below freezing temperatures on a regular basis we have like others insulated our pipes and added allot of rigid insulation sheeting and foil backed insulation to many of the cold spots. Pass through, cupboards, under our mattress etc. Helps, but we can only expect so much.
In the long run the no wood option for us was better, one little water leak and it goes bad very quickly. Towing, gas consumption, and maneuvering the CL is very good. We have watched our friends struggle at times getting into certain spots. They eventually get it but with a little more work.
Enjoy and don't let the cold stop you!
[attachment id="979" thumbnail="1"]
Quote from: @canuck" source="/post/16847/thread" timestamp="1448825517Hello,
I am sure you will be happy with your purchase.
We were in the same situation when we were looking at rigs as well. Our second choice was an Arctic Fox, true 4 season with all the bells and whistles. The Arctic Foxes are very popular here in Alberta Canada. But, they are very heavy and are full of wood. When we camp with our friends who own a Arctic Fox their trailer is always very comfortable in either hot or cold conditions. The components in the Fox IMO are much better quality than the LL. So, we tend to have to run our heaters to stay comfortable. From October to April we have to limit ourselves with powered sites / parks. Other times of year we are boondocking with no power. Even in the summer it is usual for temps to get down to freezing, typical mountain weather.
We regularly camp in temperatures of -12 C/ 10.4 F and are very cozy. But, we run our electric oil heater full time and have a small marine type heater in the bathroom. The furnace can't cut it in those temps. We have a 5 gallon container of water that will last three days and use a trick of lining our toilette with garbage bags and using a scoop of kitty litter really aids in that process. If you want to enjoy the outdoors you have to come up with ways to do it. Knowing we will be in below freezing temperatures on a regular basis we have like others insulated our pipes and added allot of rigid insulation sheeting and foil backed insulation to many of the cold spots. Pass through, cupboards, under our mattress etc. Helps, but we can only expect so much.
In the long run the no wood option for us was better, one little water leak and it goes bad very quickly. Towing, gas consumption, and maneuvering the CL is very good. We have watched our friends struggle at times getting into certain spots. They eventually get it but with a little more work.
Enjoy and don't let the cold stop you!
[attachment id="979" thumbnail="1"]
Man, it sounds like you're the person to talk to when it comes to cold weather camping. All the information on this thread has helped me lock in and decide on the Camplite. Once I get it, I will have to learn some of the insulation tricks. Thank you for your help.