When will the LL website be updated to reflect all the changes? Could you let us know when it has been updated? Thanks!
X 2 here...looking forward to the new 1/2 ton truck camper floor plans and details on the 4 season updates!!! Any plans to have a 4 season trailer package?
Hi all!
The Livin Lite website is being reconstructed from the ground up...HOORAY! This is going to mean a sleek new interface with lots of easy-to-access information, up-to-date floorplans, specs and information. However, we are a bit off of being ready to premier live. I am part of the website team, so as soon as it is ready, I will update a post letting you guys know. In the meantime, if you have any product specific questions, please feel free to contact me or our corporate office directly. We'll help you out!
As scout mentioned, we DO offer 4 season package for our truck campers, but there are no plans to offer the 4 season package for our trailers at this time. However, we still find many of our campers (with some tips and tricks) camp successfully in some pretty chilly weather- even without the 4 seasons package. Just depends on how extreme the temps and the conditions!
Hope this helps!
Looks like the website is updated now!
Where are you seeing an updated website? I just checked livinlite.com and at least the Bearcat and toyhauler sections are unchanged. For example, the BC7X20 still shows coming soon, but it has been in production for almost 2 years...
Quote from: @billmoore" source="/post/16456/thread" timestamp="1446670324Where are you seeing an updated website? I just checked livinlite.com and at least the Bearcat and toyhauler sections are unchanged. For example, the BC7X20 still shows coming soon, but it has been in production for almost 2 years...
I don't remember seeing the quicksilver 8.5 x 26FDB and 8.5 x 28 FDB. Are they not new? It looks like they are killing off the Axxess models, the camplite 11FDB, 13RDB, 13BHB, 16DB, 16BHB, and 28BHS.... (Dealer stock only) and of course all the 5th wheels.
I guess looking at it, it has not changed much, but they did seem to update what was available....
[quote source="/post/16459/thread" timestamp="1446675151" author="@tlbones"][quote source="/post/16456/thread" timestamp="1446670324" author="@billmoore"]Where are you seeing an updated website? I just checked livinlite.com and at least the Bearcat and toyhauler sections are unchanged. For example, the BC7X20 still shows coming soon, but it has been in production for almost 2 years...[/quote]I don't remember seeing the quicksilver 8.5 x 26FDB and 8.5 x 28 FDB. Are they not new? It looks like they are killing off the Axxess models, the camplite 11FDB, 13RDB, 13BHB, 16DB, 16BHB, and 28BHS.... (Dealer stock only) and of course all the 5th wheels.
I guess looking at it, it has not changed much, but they did seem to update what was available....[/quote]Yeah I'm guessing they just made some minor updates but that this isn't the complete ground up new website that Christian said is coming...
[quote source="/post/16460/thread" timestamp="1446677174" author="@billmoore"][quote source="/post/16459/thread" timestamp="1446675151" author="@tlbones"]I don't remember seeing the quicksilver 8.5 x 26FDB and 8.5 x 28 FDB. Are they not new? It looks like they are killing off the Axxess models, the camplite 11FDB, 13RDB, 13BHB, 16DB, 16BHB, and 28BHS.... (Dealer stock only) and of course all the 5th wheels.
I guess looking at it, it has not changed much, but they did seem to update what was available....[/quote]Yeah I'm guessing they just made some minor updates but that this isn't the complete ground up new website that Christian said is coming...[/quote]Yeahhh this could potentially turn into some major confusion as we progress to the new website. lol It looks like our web designer is trying to update some minor things as we go along, but nothing big. P-) I couldn't even begin to tell you what he updated or didn't, unfortunately. BUT I will keep you updated as we a) do major updates on the current site or b) get closer to releasing the new site. Sorry for the hassle, guys!
I just tried to go to the LL website (www.livinlite.com) and ended up at an Airstream site. Did you guys get hacked?
[quote source="/post/17640/thread" timestamp="1452479199" author="@stephen99"]I just tried to go to the LL website (www.livinlite.com) and ended up at an Airstream site. Did you guys get hacked?[/quote]
If they were, it must have been fixed already...I just tried and it look me to the correct Livin Lite homepage.
-Graham
Still pretty outdated, though. Badly needs updated photos.
At this point judging from the misunderstandings of some serious potential owners post on here I really think not having an up-to-date website boarders on being dishonest. People are still expecting 2 axles on 16dbs, etc. People expect accurate info when ordering products sight unseen as is apparently often the case with LL since they are hard to come by in stock exactly how people want them. Time to roll this new website out thor!
Not sure what progress has been made with the new website- but I will let our web design guys know that we at least need to fix some of the verbiage so that it isn't misleading!
FYI: the 14DBS gallery on the LL website has been updated. Single axle, new interior, etc.
[quote timestamp="1454426504" source="/post/18291/thread" author="@farmboy"]FYI: the 14DBS gallery on the LL website has been updated. Single axle, new interior, etc.
[/quote]Slowly but surely! Thanks for the update.
One head's up...
I believe the 21BHS used to list a tongue weight of 440 lbs. I used that figure when choosing our Flex as a tow vehicle - it has a maximum of 450 lb tongue weight allowed with weight distribution hitch.
I was kind of shocked when I actually weighed the tongue of my 21BHS and it was well over 600 lbs., and that was fairly lightly loaded. We had the receiver on the Flex reinforced, and have towed 9,000+ miles without incident, but still do not like exceeding Ford's recommendations by that much.
I notice the tongue weight of the 21BHS is now listed at 308 lbs. Albeit with a double asterisk directing the reader to a disclaimer.
I'd suggest that figure more accurately reflect an actual delivered tongue weight, with battery and full propane tanks. I strongly suspect it's well north of 308 lbs as typically delivered.
In a worst case scenario, this could be an issue for someone purchasing an inadequate tow vehicle in anticipation of a purchase, or might even come up in a lawsuit were an accident or damage to occur because of an owner assuming the published tongue weight from the site was at least approximately correct.
Just a thought...
[quote source="/post/18324/thread" timestamp="1454512914" author="@fasteddieb"]One head's up...
I believe the 21BHS used to list a tongue weight of 440 lbs. I used that figure when choosing our Flex as a tow vehicle - it has a maximum of 450 lb tongue weight allowed with weight distribution hitch.
I was kind of shocked when I actually weighed the tongue of my 21BHS and it was well over 600 lbs., and that was fairly lightly loaded. We had the receiver on the Flex reinforced, and have towed 9,000+ miles without incident, but still do not like exceeding Ford's recommendations by that much.
I notice the tongue weight of the 21BHS is now listed at 308 lbs. Albeit with a double asterisk directing the reader to a disclaimer.
I'd suggest that figure more accurately reflect an actual delivered tongue weight, with battery and full propane tanks. I strongly suspect it's well north of 308 lbs as typically delivered.
In a worst case scenario, this could be an issue for someone purchasing an inadequate tow vehicle in anticipation of a purchase, or might even come up in a lawsuit were an accident or damage to occur because of an owner assuming the published tongue weight from the site was at least approximately correct.
Just a thought...[/quote]Makes sense to me!
Just copied and pasted your suggestion and sent it to the guy who does our web stuff. Thanks for letting me know! I would have never had noticed or caught that!
[quote source="/post/18324/thread" timestamp="1454512914" author="@fasteddieb"]
I notice the tongue weight of the 21BHS is now listed at 308 lbs. Albeit with a double asterisk directing the reader to a disclaimer.
[/quote][font size="3"]Eddie,
Not sure where you're finding 308# unless we're seeing a realtime update. I see the BHS spec'd at 480# TW as of 2/3/16 at 1155 Central. What is interesting is the 16TBS and 16DBS have the exact same dry and tongue weight specs, but one only has a single axle. Anybody believe that?
[/font]
[quote source="/post/18331/thread" timestamp="1454522123" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/18324/thread" timestamp="1454512914" author="@fasteddieb"]I notice the tongue weight of the 21BHS is now listed at 308 lbs. Albeit with a double asterisk directing the reader to a disclaimer.
[/quote][font size="3"]Eddie,
Not sure where you're finding 308# unless we're seeing a realtime update. I see the BHS spec'd at 480# TW as of 2/3/16 at 1155 Central. What is interesting is the 16TBS and 16DBS have the exact same dry and tongue weight specs, but one only has a single axle. Anybody believe that?
[/font][/quote]Just now took this screenshot after navigating to the 21BHS page from the main "All Models" page:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1462/24703769601_4100ee0935_z.jpg)
Quote from: @fasteddieb" source="/post/18332/thread" timestamp="1454522995[quote timestamp="1454522123" source="/post/18331/thread" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Eddie,
Not sure where you're finding 308# unless we're seeing a realtime update. I see the BHS spec'd at 480# TW as of 2/3/16 at 1155 Central. What is interesting is the 16TBS and 16DBS have the exact same dry and tongue weight specs, but one only has a single axle. Anybody believe that?
[/font]
Just now took this screenshot after navigating to the 21BHS page from the main "All Models" page:
[img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1462/24703769601_4100ee0935_z.jpg"]
[/quote]Now that's really interesting. Here's what I see right now from the same site. Weird!!!!!
[attachment id="1157" thumbnail="1"]
LL needs to do some serious thinking about what they publish. A 308 lb. tongue weight with a 3,618 lb dry weight means that the trailer violates one of the basic principles of trailer stability: keep the tongue weight at 10% or more of trailer weight. From looking at those specs, I wouldn't buy that trailer.
David
Something to do with caching?
[quote source="/post/18335/thread" timestamp="1454523989" author="@fasteddieb"]Something to do with caching?[/quote][font size="3"]Apparently so. If I do a fresh search for LL on google and then go to the 21BHS site I get the 308# version. Makes you wonder how to ever get the real current info :'( [/font]
[font size="3"]So if I do a Google search for LL and follow their links I get the apparently new 308# TW. But if I bookmark that EXACT site or type it into the browser directly I get the older 480# TW. Something about different Domain Name Servers and caching. Arrrrrgh!
But David's right. If the 308# is correct it becomes iffy for an unloaded trailer. Even with 20# propane and a 67# battery right on the ball it's still just at 10%. Add to that 6 gal of water in the WH behind the axles and your under.
[/font]
@charliem, some browser will have a local cache of a site to help speed up response times when returning to bookmarked pages. I'm guessing that is what is impacting you. When coming from a google search I believe you are hitting the live (current) version.
[quote timestamp="1454526330" source="/post/18341/thread" author="@admin"]@charliem , some browser will have a local cache of a site to help speed up response times when returning to bookmarked pages. I'm guessing that is what is impacting you. When coming from a google search I believe you are hitting the live (current) version.[/quote][font size="3"]I thought of that, but I've got FireFox set to clear the cache when I exit. I also ran a cleanup routine before I tried it again. I think it's an issue with different DNSs caching different versions. Cox uses different DNSs and/or caches than Google etc. I hope it all settles out in a few days. That said, 308# TW is awfully light for a 21. [/font]
Guys - not sure what has been happening here. The hitch weight of the 21BHS is listed as 480# on the website right now and I can attest to that personally with ours. That number is correct. Whatever was shown earlier was an error. They are having problems with updating their website. No problems with recommending that trailer to people.
Quote from: @gbpack" source="/post/18349/thread" timestamp="1454548440Guys - not sure what has been happening here. The hitch weight of the 21BHS is listed as 480# on the website right now and I can attest to that personally with ours. That number is correct. Whatever was shown earlier was an error. They are having problems with updating their website. No problems with recommending that trailer to people.
Ah- I wondered if that might happen!
As soon as I let them know that the number needed to be updated, they changed it on the website. However, sometimes the updates can take as long as an hour or two to be completely active. . We had a similar issue when launching the new CrossRoads website. It was live and updated, but took a bit for folks to ALWAYS get the updated version when they logged on.
Should be ok now though!
It now says 494 lbs "Hitch Weight" for the 21BHS.
I wonder if that indicates a real change from the number shown, 440 lbs, when we bought ours, or just a more realistic estimate of delivered weight.
[font size="3"]I notice the current (2/6/16) LL website, for the 21s and other standards and options pages , lists:
"*ONE PIECE SINGLE ? PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING"
What does this mean? Is this new or has it always been there and I missed it. Does this have implications re the aluminum roofing? If this is an interior membrane it's good. If this is a rubber roof it's BAD.
[/font]
Somehow my previous post did not post. Could be an operator I D ten T issue.
Standards and options link updated on 2-5-16 now states: "ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING"
We ordered on 3 OCT 16 from our local RV Dealer. The standards and option link dated 21 OCT 15 stated: "ONE PIECE LAMINATED ALUMINUM ROOF."
[span][span]Well we understand and have no issue with single axle or wood faced cabinetry as other do but if our camper comes with a membrane roof that could be a deal breaker. I do not understand why Livin Lite who found a market of all aluminum trailers that you pay a premium cost for would go with the "membrane" roof.
We will keep you updated since our camper has been constructed for a while and been waiting for a third unit to be finished to ship to our dealer. Hopefully we have the all aluminum roof! [/span] [/span]
[quote source="/post/18424/thread" timestamp="1454779016" author="@charleschapman"]Somehow my previous post did not post. Could be an operator I D ten T issue.
Standards and options link updated on 2-5-16 now states: "ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING"
We ordered on 3 OCT 16 from our local RV Dealer. The standards and option link dated 21 OCT 15 stated: "ONE PIECE LAMINATED ALUMINUM ROOF."
[span][span]Well we understand and have no issue with single axle or wood faced cabinetry as other do but if our camper comes with a membrane roof that could be a deal breaker. I do not understand why Livin Lite who found a market of all aluminum trailers that you pay a premium cost for would go with the "membrane" roof.
We will keep you updated since our camper has been constructed for a while and been waiting for a third unit to be finished to ship to our dealer. Hopefully we have the all aluminum roof! [/span] [/span][/quote][font size="3"]I hope you're kidding me, but I guess you're not. My guess would be your unit will still have the aluminum roof. I hope so, but this will just about break the bank. It would end the deal for me and send me back to the drawing board. It will also end my support for LL.[/font]
The roof on our new 21BHS is still aluminum on top. Maybe that is an internal membrane that they are using (or have been using all along).
Found a discussion on a Crossroads forum, (Crosssroads & LivinLite owned by Thor) about the Thermoplastic Polyolefin roofing material starting to be used on Crossroads RVs.
http://www.crossroadsowners.com/forums/f16/vinyl-roof-8218.html
[font size="3"]Sure looks like a TPO roof. Here's an interesting discussion on a Jayco forum. I don't think a tree branch would tear the aluminum roof.
[a href="http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f7/epdm-or-tpo-roof-21398.html"]http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f7/epdm-or-tpo-roof-21398.html[/a]
[/font]
Agree, a branch probably would not penetrate aluminum. We've had large hail on our aluminum roof, might have a ding or two, but no other damage. The folks with rubber roofs like the idea of TPO compared to rubber roofs. I like aluminum compared to TPO. Some 1940s vintage airplanes I fly have aluminum components and holding up well.
[quote timestamp="1454788481" source="/post/18434/thread" author="@exploringcarolina"]Some 1940s vintage airplanes I fly have aluminum components and holding up well.[/quote][font size="3"]Some old planes used fabric. Maybe CL Thor could try that on the sides next. :D :D [/font]
[quote timestamp="1454789742" author="@charliem" source="/post/18435/thread"][quote source="/post/18434/thread" author="@exploringcarolina" timestamp="1454788481"]Some 1940s vintage airplanes I fly have aluminum components and holding up well.[/quote][font size="3"]Some old planes used fabric. Maybe CL Thor could try that on the sides next. :D :D [/font]
[/quote]Don't say that very loud, you may be taken seriously! (rofl)
I went and checked each model and all of them now say this:
ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING
Quote from: @mitch" source="/post/18437/thread" timestamp="1454795008I went and checked each model and all of them now say this:
ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING
[font size="3"]Yes, I checked that too. Maybe after you finish filling your shim order to LL of 1000 pieces at $5 per each you can 3-D print the roof [/font]:-/ [font size="3"]. Iowa corn farmers would love you.[/font]
I'm thinking I might have to, the shim orders have really lightened up after that first run of 5. I don't know much about RV's really, this being my first one, but it seems like nobody does aluminum roof, exception being Airstream and a few other high end manufacturers. It kind of leaves me in a quandry should I ever want to upsize. I certainly hate to think that I have to reduce my expectations.
[quote source="/post/18435/thread" timestamp="1454789742" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/18434/thread" timestamp="1454788481" author="@exploringcarolina"]Some 1940s vintage airplanes I fly have aluminum components and holding up well.[/quote][font size="3"]Some old planes used fabric. Maybe CL Thor could try that on the sides next. :D :D [/font]
[/quote]Some new planes use fabric!
(http://old.sportpilot.org/images/1CubCrafters%20CC11-160%20Carbon%20Cub%20SS-1.jpg)
[quote timestamp="1454797400" source="/post/18440/thread" author="@mitch"]It kind of leaves me in a quandry should I ever want to upsize.
[/quote]We've been thinking about moving up to Toy Hauler, but believe our 2010 CL 11 with aluminum roof,
aluminum sheet interior & exterior walls, and aluminum floor is a keeper.
Well I guess we all have collectors items. Why on earth did Thor buy LivinLite, only to take away everything that made LivinLite distinctive? They already had plenty of other brands with the more conventional cheapo construction...
OH my. Please say this isn't happening. If true, LL is now off the list.
I won't be too surprised if ATC capitalizes on this. They already make all aluminum toyhaulers that are very competitive with the LivinLite Quicksilver VRV line, they are totally open to customization, and they build really high quality trailers.
For anyone interested, here is ATC's toyhauler:
http://aluminumtoyhauler.com/
Take a look at the frame members of the ATC at the front near the coupler. You aren't going to have bending problems with that frame.
David
ATC builds many custom aluminum trailers, too:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aluminumtrailercompany/
Quote from: @david" source="/post/18467/thread" timestamp="1454846830Take a look at the frame members of the ATC at the front near the coupler. You aren't going to have bending problems with that frame.
David
[font size="3"]Note the couplers are 2-5/16" AND have side bolts! BTW, I notice the color options have disappeared from the LL site. I guess no more red CLs.[/font]
[quote source="/post/18468/thread" timestamp="1454852053" author="@exploringcarolina"]ATC builds many custom aluminum trailers, too:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aluminumtrailercompany/[/quote][font size="3"]I wouldn't take much to make the 7x20 a competitor to the CL21s. All the elements are there on their site: water/waste systems, baths, beds, slides, electrical systems, aluminum floors and roofs, Azdel interiors, AL cabinets. Just cut and [strike]paste[/strike] weld. ;) The quoted prices and weights are in the range. And IIRC Scott Tuttle started out building light weight aluminum utility/hauler type trailers. [/font]
[font color="#1929e6" size="4"][font face="comic sans ms"]Does anyone know if this is being being used in production yet???[/font]
[font face="comic sans ms"]"ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING"[/font][/font]
ATC makes some nice looking units. I think that the cabinets even look better than the 'old' CL ones; love the rounded edges. Insulated floors that appear to really be insulated. And they include sinks in the bathrooms. Bad news: LL has been Thor-o-ized; good news: ATC offers a solid option for those seeking the quality that LL had, until recently, been famous for. Current owners: you are indeed lucky. I just hope Thor doesn't flood the market with their version of LL, which may adversely affect the reputation that the old LL spent years establishing.
Quote from: @farmboy" source="/post/18476/thread" timestamp="1454862455ATC makes some nice looking units. I think that the cabinets even look better than the 'old' CL ones; love the rounded edges. Insulated floors that appear to really be insulated. And they include sinks in the bathrooms. Bad news: LL has been Thor-o-ized; good news: ATC offers a solid option for those seeking the quality that LL had, until recently, been famous for. Current owners: you are indeed lucky. I just hope Thor doesn't flood the market with their version of LL, which may adversely affect the reputation that the old LL spent years establishing.
I don't think the ATC MSRPs were to too hateful.
[font size="3"]Charlie's prediction: Look for the deletion of the Dometic C5 windows, replaced by common single pane sliders. Bean counter to management: "Look Boss, we cut $5 from cost and raised the price $10 to compensate."
Or am I being too cynical??
[/font]
We were draw to LivinLite initially because of the aluminum construction. After camping in the Mighty 11, we really appreciate Dometic C5 windows. Currently communicating with an ATC dealer about a custom ATC motorcycle transporter, will see how it goes.
We really like the current Dometic windows as well. What kind of windows are in the ATC units? Are they good?
Have not seen Dometic windows installed on ATC toy haulers on their website. Will ask if Dometic windows can be installed on the custom ATC motorcycle hauler, Quest MC300, we're considering.
We believe Dometic C5 to be the best camper windows available.
[quote timestamp="1454795008" source="/post/18437/thread" author="@mitch"]I went and checked each model and all of them now say this:
ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING[/quote]So I'm aware of the azdel interior wall panels, of course they are thin delicate stuff but what are the specs on azdel decking? I'm assuming it's tougher and thicker? I can't figure out the azdel.com website.
Quote from: @billmoore" source="/post/18447/thread" timestamp="1454803203Well I guess we all have collectors items. Why on earth did Thor buy LivinLite, only to take away everything that made LivinLite distinctive? They already had plenty of other brands with the more conventional cheapo construction...
[font color="#1979e6" face="comic sans ms" size="4"]Agree and so confusing...
-cabinet change to wood
-single axle change(s)
-reduction to number of floor plans
-tire size change (and then retraction)
-roof change
What is next???
Not the Living Lite product we came to appreciate and want...
Wonder if there is some bigger picture why Thor purchased LL??? May never know.
Feels like the downfall of the product.
Slowly step by step, tearing LL product apart!!!
So very sad we are living through this...[/font]
I just wish we had the funds to purchase an "old" PT (pre-Thor) CampLite back in the day.
[quote source="/post/18509/thread" timestamp="1454894591" author="@oleo"][quote source="/post/18447/thread" timestamp="1454803203" author="@billmoore"]Well I guess we all have collectors items. Why on earth did Thor buy LivinLite, only to take away everything that made LivinLite distinctive? They already had plenty of other brands with the more conventional cheapo construction...[/quote][font face="comic sans ms" color="#1979e6" size="4"]Agree and so confusing...
-cabinet change to wood
-single axle change(s)
-reduction to number of floor plans
-tire size change (and then retraction)
-roof change
What is next???
Not the Living Lite product we came to appreciate and want...
Wonder if there is some bigger picture why Thor purchased LL??? May never know.
Feels like the downfall of the product.
Slowly step by step, tearing LL product apart!!!
So very sad we are living through this...[/font]
[/quote]It seems they knew enough to leave airstream alone, but it as a stronger following and bigger sales.....
Quote from: @mitch" source="/post/18437/thread" timestamp="1454795008I went and checked each model and all of them now say this:
ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING
Take a look at this video and see how it makes you feel about a Superflex roof compared to aluminum:
[a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeFDO7IVhsk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeFDO7IVhsk[/a]
[quote timestamp="1454955736" source="/post/18527/thread" author="@aggie79"]Take a look at this video and see how it makes you feel about a Superflex roof compared to aluminum:
[/quote][font size="3"]I watched. What message do you want us to take away? I saw ease of installation, ease of physical damage, limited life in sunlight, and no mention of warranty. My last data point had TPO roofs warranted for 12 years.[/font]
[quote source="/post/18529/thread" author="@charliem" timestamp="1454957012"][quote source="/post/18527/thread" author="@aggie79" timestamp="1454955736"]Take a look at this video and see how it makes you feel about a Superflex roof compared to aluminum:
[/quote][font size="3"]I watched. What message do you want us to take away? I saw ease of installation, ease of physical damage, limited life in sunlight, and no mention of warranty. My last data point had TPO roofs warranted for 12 years.[/font]
[/quote]
I would concur with all of the above and would add that LL owners should be happy/proud of the aluminum structure and aluminum roof.
There is nothing inherently wrong with TPO roofing. Commercial building TPO roofing has worked well for years provided it is installed correctly. RV TPO roofing doesn't appear to be anywhere near as substantial as commercial roofing (probably to reduce weight and cost). I would be surprised to hear that RV installations would carry a 5-year warranty.
I would just like something a little more substantial. I had a small limb fall on my camper, enough to cause a deep scratch. Had the roof been something other than aluminum I'm sure it would have ripped and leaked. Not a disaster of biblical proportions to be sure but if I can have a roof material that will prevent that I'm willing to pay for it. That's my pitch for aluminum over TPO.
[quote timestamp="1454854430" author="@charliem" source="/post/18471/thread"][quote source="/post/18468/thread" author="@exploringcarolina" timestamp="1454852053"]ATC builds many custom aluminum trailers, too:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aluminumtrailercompany/[/quote][font size="3"]I wouldn't take much to make the 7x20 a competitor to the CL21s. All the elements are there on their site: water/waste systems, baths, beds, slides, electrical systems, aluminum floors and roofs, Azdel interiors, AL cabinets. Just cut and [strike]paste[/strike] weld. ;) The quoted prices and weights are in the range. And IIRC Scott Tuttle started out building light weight aluminum utility/hauler type trailers. [/font]
[/quote]
It's difficult to get apples to apples, but I priced out a 7' x 20' with options. Retail price not including TTL or delivery was $32,560. (Base price was $26,995.) I would construct these myself. The major options included were: 2" spray-on floor insulation, 3-season plumbing (heaters for tanks and waste lines), 13,500 Btuh A/C, Fantastic fans with MaxxAir covers, & TV/stereo/dvd, and extra 4' aluminum upper cabinet.
Please note that the price does not include any type of beds. If I went this route, I would construct dual, twin-size Murphy beds, interior partition with door and windows at ramp opening, and collapsible railing to use the ramp as a porch.
I have no idea what actual retail price would be, but the list price seems very reasonable to me.
[quote source="/post/18571/thread" timestamp="1455123729" author="@aggie79"]It's difficult to get apples to apples, but I priced out a 7' x 20' with options. Retail price not including TTL or delivery was $32,560. (Base price was $26,995.) I would construct these myself. The major options included were: 2" spray-on floor insulation, 3-season plumbing (heaters for tanks and waste lines), 13,500 Btuh A/C, Fantastic fans with MaxxAir covers, & TV/stereo/dvd, and extra 4' aluminum upper cabinet.
Please note that the price does not include any type of beds. If I went this route, I would construct dual, twin-size Murphy beds, interior partition with door and windows at ramp opening, and collapsible railing to use the ramp as a porch.
I have no idea what actual retail price would be, but the list price seems very reasonable to me.[/quote][font size="3"]I think you confirm my observation. Considering that your chosen options are not included and/or not even available from LL the ATC price seems right in there.
BTW I think the ATC three season package includes heaters on the water lines, not the waste lines. Probably a typo for you. If you're really considering outfitting for cold weather you might look at the hot water circulating scheme I described. It's a lot easier on the 12V system and the battery if you're off grid.
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New LL Quicksilver VRV toy haulers have TPO type roofs and ATC toy haulers have one piece aluminum roofs.
[quote source="/post/18572/thread" timestamp="1455127635" author="@charliem"]BTW I think the ATC three season package includes heaters on the water lines, not the waste lines. Probably a typo for you. If you're really considering outfitting for cold weather you might look at the hot water circulating scheme I described. It's a lot easier on the 12V system and the battery if you're off grid.
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Oops! You're correct. The heater is for the water lines. We generally camp where there is electrical service so the 3-season package would work for us.
I like the ATC toy haulers although the nearest dealer is several states away. My preference still is with Livin Lite. I can deal with the wood faced cabinets, no factory customization, and QC issues, but I really don't want a TPO roof. Hopefully, when the dust settles, the VRV may still be "all aluminum".
[quote timestamp="1455127635" author="@charliem" source="/post/18572/thread"][quote timestamp="1455123729" author="@aggie79" source="/post/18571/thread"]It's difficult to get apples to apples, but I priced out a 7' x 20' with options. Retail price not including TTL or delivery was $32,560. (Base price was $26,995.) I would construct these myself. The major options included were: 2" spray-on floor insulation, 3-season plumbing (heaters for tanks and waste lines), 13,500 Btuh A/C, Fantastic fans with MaxxAir covers, & TV/stereo/dvd, and extra 4' aluminum upper cabinet.
Please note that the price does not include any type of beds. If I went this route, I would construct dual, twin-size Murphy beds, interior partition with door and windows at ramp opening, and collapsible railing to use the ramp as a porch.
I have no idea what actual retail price would be, but the list price seems very reasonable to me.[/quote][font size="3"]I think you confirm my observation. Considering that your chosen options are not included and/or not even available from LL the ATC price seems right in there.
BTW I think the ATC three season package includes heaters on the water lines, not the waste lines. Probably a typo for you. If you're really considering outfitting for cold weather you might look at the hot water circulating scheme I described. It's a lot easier on the 12V system and the battery if you're off grid.
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It looks like ATC is an interesting option - especially if they'd be amicable to customization, or a customer-finish option.
The real problem is that these roofs are put down on a wood deck, which will rot with even the smallest leaks. From experience, I had a RV with a rubber roof that developed a small leak that went unnoticed, it ended up dry rotting a corner of the roof. An all aluminum constructed trailer gives me some peace of mind where rot is concerned. With all the sloppy QC in the RV industry, LL included, the less wood the better.
[quote source="/post/18507/thread" timestamp="1454892966" author="@tlbones"][quote source="/post/18437/thread" timestamp="1454795008" author="@mitch"]I went and checked each model and all of them now say this:
ONE PIECE SINGLE?PLY SUPERFLEX OLEFIN BASED ROOF MEMBRANE W/ AZDEL DECKING[/quote]So I'm aware of the azdel interior wall panels, of course they are thin delicate stuff but what are the specs on azdel decking? I'm assuming it's tougher and thicker? I can't figure out the azdel.com website. [/quote]I would think that its laminated with some light weight material.
Question- Anyone hear of putting truck bedliner product over roof- aluminum, rubber, or otherwise? Any thoughts on this?
[quote source="/post/18635/thread" timestamp="1455293728" author="@rab0325"]Question- Anyone hear of putting truck bedliner product over roof- aluminum, rubber, or otherwise? Any thoughts on this?[/quote]Funny you should ask.....
https://livinlite.forums.net/thread/1799/roof-material
Thanks!
[quote source="/post/18635/thread" timestamp="1455293728" author="@rab0325"]Question- Anyone hear of putting truck bedliner product over roof- aluminum, rubber, or otherwise? Any thoughts on this?[/quote]Thats an interesting idea.