Hello. I am new to this forum and feel compelled to post this issue. I have a 2013 7x18 VRV that I purchased new in Jan of this year. I have put approximately 3000 miles on the unit and have overall been pleased with it. The two issues I have had are a ruptured water tank, and while removing the water tank I discovered a cracked axle hangar bracket. This bracket has almost completely separated and could have resulted in losing the rear axle entirely while on the highway.
When I contacted Don at LivinLite about these issues he was very pleasant and resolved the water tank issue almost immediately by sending me a new tank. ( Hoping it arrives soon).
Now as for the Cracked axle bracket, I was very upfront with Don about the fact that I had installed the Lift blocks from Casita (Dexter Torflex #10 Axle lift kit). This is a very robust kit made of steel and utilizes the same mounting holes with no modifications what so ever. I do not believe that this kit has anything at all to do with the cracked bracket.
However, Mike Kinzel at LivinLite has has decided to use this as an excuse to not warranty this very important and potentially dangerous issue with design of this trailer.
I would strongly urge any owners of these trailers whether they have installed this lift kit or not to closely inspect these aluminum axle brackets.
Not trying to defend LL specifically, but if you were to install a lift kit on your truck that was still under warranty, and then lets say the axle bracket were to break after that modification. You then bring it to the dealer...I can almost promise you that they will deny the warranty claim due to the modification. I think it's a matter of standard business procedures and product liability, and while it may sound like "an excuse", I don't think it's fair to put it in those terms.
But good luck with both fixes regardless, and thanks for raising the awareness for other owners who may want to double-check their brackets!
Graham
ulrich -
I'd like to see pictures of the cracked bracket. That would be huge.
As far as warranty, I'd expect a denied claim on a modified suspension.
Sorry to hear about the trouble, but I'm glad the tank is on its way to being fixed.
Much like others have said though, after modification I dont think any product manufacturer would warranty it.
There is no point in reiterating the obvious and what has already been said. Mike has said there will be no warranty due to the lift kit and I do not expect that he is going to change his mind. The reason for this post is for your benefit, and for the benefit of those who have installed or are considering installing this kit.
- If you install the kit, the warranty on your trailer will be voided.
- More importantly, I believe that regardless of wether or not the kit is installed , these aluminum hangar brackets are not sufficient to take the loads imparted on them. Due to the risk of loosing an axle at highway speed, it would be prudent of you to inspect these brackets.
- I have photos but do not seem to be able to upload them
Enjoy your trailers and safe travels
Ulrich
Email them to me at FastEddieB@mac.com and I'll post them here.
Long term, there are threads here about different ways to post images.
If I understand the axle mod, you may have increased a torque arm beyond design specs. Consider that the trailer bounces around from left to right as you drive down the road. The lateral motion of the center of gravity of the trailer (some number of feet ABOVE the axle) becomes a twisting motion when applied to the axle via the hanger bracket.
To help visualize the problem, imagine that you added a ten-foot lift instead of a two-inch lift. If you were to push on the side of the trailer as it teeters on a 10' lift block, you can imagine the twisting motion that must be resisted by the frame/hanger/axle system.
Heck, with a 10' lever arm, you could probably break the hanger bracket with one arm.
There is much I do not know about the axle and the mod, but this is one possible avenue to consider.
David
Not sure if the geometry of a 2" lift is quite the issue. If it were, Dexter would not produce and sell lift kits for their axles. I would say continuos vibration is a greater risk to weld failure than the added torsion from a 2" lift. If that much force were laterally applied to the weld, you would notice a fair amount of uneven tire wear.
I do agree though, that it is a tough go to get any warranty attention after any mods - I guess that's the price we pay for custom... Hopefully a trip to the local axle shop will get you sorted out with a minimum of hassle. Quick question.. Was it a single weld in a series of spot welds that cracked? or is there a continuos weld along the bracket on the VRV?
Photos #1 & 2 (2 more to follow):
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/722/20698486333_efda1df698_o.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/717/21293307066_cdfbb8a709_o.jpg)
Photos #3 & #4:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/670/21132668369_92c937b9fb_o.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5744/21131476050_9283b265d4_o.jpg)
Looking at those photos, I can see why LL might balk at a warranty claim.
The brackets and welding that might have been adequate for an axle cinched up tight to the frame could easily see more stress with the longer "arm" the raising blocks provided, especially from lateral side-to-side loads.
Just my layman's take - I'm no engineer.
Observations -
It's possible that this is a weld quality issue, not a lift kit issue (Poor penetration). Poor welds on Camplite's are not new. I've had to have re-welding done on mine to fix centerline cracking, and Livinlite complete re-designed the front end of my trailer to get around a design issue.
It's also possible that the lift kit is the cause, as David suggested (there is now torque on a weld that was in shear or tension prior to the kit).
In any case, aluminum is very difficult to weld correctly - and even when welded correctly, the welds are never as strong as the base material.
Looks like the weld on picture two caused the weld on picture one to break. Would it have happened without the lift kit? Who knows. But I think if it was welded better it wouldn't have.
Count your blessings it is an easy fix instead of a complete disaster. At this point I am both glad and sad for your strife. Way to go with the inspections!!!
I went out right away and visually inspected the bracket welds. Good so far. I have always wondered about the potential for steel to aluminum galvanic corrosion at this joint. The axle is already rusting which means it had just a superficial paint job and the aluminum is bare with no coating.
I don't really know what the stock trailer looks like... is the blue component the actual lift kit, and everything else is part of the basic trailer?
Thanks,
David
Question: What is that little scabbed-on piece of scrap that I have highlighted in the red box?
Please tell me that it is not part of the stock trailer...
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/9ae058c861cc36234c3227cd5fca85d5/tumblr_nvagor3cms1uh3f65o1_500.png)
That blue component does not provide much in the way limiting its lateral distortion. Viewed down the long axis, it looks like a nice, regular rectangle bar. However, when you push on the side of the trailer, that piece will distort into more of a non-orthogonal parallelogram.
Sure, it probably won't distort by much, but without something like an x-brace inside the blue bar, it will distort some.
The matching surface on the axle cannot really distort very much in this manner, so it would be reasonable for the LL engineers to not build to handle distortion of that component.
I can't thank you enough for sharing your experience here! I have learned quite a bit of useful information because you decided to contribute your experience to the group.
Best,
David
[quote source="/post/15507/thread" timestamp="1443278388" author="@david2015"]Question: What is that little scabbed-on piece of scrap that I have highlighted in the red box?
Please tell me that it is not part of the stock trailer...
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/9ae058c861cc36234c3227cd5fca85d5/tumblr_nvagor3cms1uh3f65o1_500.png)
On our CampLite 11, the Dexter mounting brackets are the same width as the trailer frame. Looks like an aluminum rectangular tube cut out for the Dexter mounting brackets to bolt into and the aluminum cut out tube is welded on the frame. Everything looks solid with no weld cracks. Probably have close to 20,000 miles on this trailer weighing in at 2000 pounds ready to camp, 300 pounds tongue weight, with 2200 pound capacity Dexter axle.
[a href="http://s657.photobucket.com/user/vstromklr/media/2015/IMG_8556_zpsfans0aqz.jpg.html"]
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/vstromklr/2015/IMG_8556_zpsfans0aqz.jpg)
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/vstromklr/2015/IMG_8555_zpsxhn10iov.jpg"][/a]
It looks like Bill's axle bracket on the trailer lines up perfectly well with the mounting bracket on the axle.
It is possible that the trailer frame didn't match the trailer, and that the factory scabbed on that little part instead of rejecting the frame or axle.
I can't imagine an engineer intentionally designing in a piece like that.
David
I agree on the assessment of that scabbed in piece of boxed aluminum. That looks weird, like something didn't line up right on that VRV and they assembled it anyway. On my Camplite, the frame and axle mount line up like on Bill's. I can imagine that extra welded on piece not being perfectly squared up and placing extra stress on a weld when the bolts were tightened. It's a really critical joint to get right!
[quote timestamp="1443278388" source="/post/15507/thread" author="@david2015"]Question: What is that little scabbed-on piece of scrap that I have highlighted in the red box?
Please tell me that it is not part of the stock trailer...
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/9ae058c861cc36234c3227cd5fca85d5/tumblr_nvagor3cms1uh3f65o1_500.png)
I can assure you that the blue steel tube used in the lift is incredibly stiff and has virtually no lateral distortion. That little aluminum "stabbed on piece of scrap" is indeed a factory installation by LivinLite. I can only imagine that it was an afterthought to make up for a design mistake. The problem is with a poor design, and an even poorer fix.
As for the water tank, they were very good about sending me a new one, although all the fittings are in the wrong spots and it cannot be mounted without considerable modifications to the tank.