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Camplite => Camplite Mods / Upgrades => Topic started by: tinkeringtechie on April 27, 2014, 02:34:37 AM

Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: tinkeringtechie on April 27, 2014, 02:34:37 AM
It has already been mentioned in another thread that the Dometic RM3762 (and possibly other models) has a 12V frame heater that uses a considerable amount of current. This can be quite a burden on the battery while boondocking and the frame heater itself is more of a luxury than a necessity. I did a bit of investigation in the manual and it appears to be easily accessible. According to the wiring diagram it's connected using a light blue wire and starts and ends in the rear access panel with nothing but a resistive heater wire between the two ends (no complex circuitry). I poked around in the access panel today and it looks like a pretty easy modification:

[attachment id="71" thumbnail="1"][attachment id="72" thumbnail="1"]

You can easily see the light blue wire. The negative end is just grounded directly to the chassis. I haven't made any modifications yet, but my plan is to add a relay to the grounded end that connects it when 120V is present, but leaves it disconnected when only on 12V. I'll post more details once it's complete.
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: fasteddieb on April 27, 2014, 09:02:52 AM
Nice!

You are certainly living up to your screen name!
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: tinkeringtechie on April 27, 2014, 09:59:14 AM
Thanks, I'm just getting warmed up :-)
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: fasteddieb on April 27, 2014, 12:27:22 PM
In all honesty, I think the most elegant solution here may just be the simplest...

...a weatherproof SPST switch mounted right on the refrigerator access panel labeled "SHORE POWER" and "BOONDOCKING".

The whole relay thing seems a bit much.

Then again, I always enjoyed Rube Goldberg contraptions, so let us know how it goes!
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on April 27, 2014, 12:54:50 PM
[font size="3"][font face="arial"]I agree the SPST switch will suffice, but you forget Tinkeringtechie is a real tech junkie. No solution is complete without some If/Then logic  :). Charge on, Travis.
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Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: tinkeringtechie on April 27, 2014, 03:47:35 PM
The SPST approach would work just as well, but I have enough things to remember as it is. I'm a big fan of automation whenever possible. In this case the relay doesn't add too much complexity. A relay with a 120V coil plugged into the fridge outlet would complete the build.
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on July 15, 2014, 09:00:36 PM
[font size="3"][font face="arial"]I finally made the refrigerator frame heater mod to my 21RBS. I mounted a toggle switch in the external fridge access area. That should save 12 AH per day when dry camping.

One caution: the blue wire connected to the ground stud is not ordinary wire. It is spiral resistance wire consisting of very tiny wire wrapped around a non conductive core. As such it cannot be soldered. If you must cut it, as I did before I knew, use a crimp terminal on the end. The best approach would be to use the existing ring terminal with a screw terminal switch or other screw terminal device. Be careful when attempting to strip the insulation. The wire is easily damaged. 
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Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: tinkeringtechie on July 16, 2014, 02:02:10 AM
[quote source="/post/2012/thread" timestamp="1405468836" author="@charliem"][font size="3"][font face="arial"]One caution: the blue wire connected to the ground stud is not ordinary wire. It is spiral resistance wire consisting of very tiny wire wrapped around a non conductive core. As such it cannot be soldered. If you must cut it, as I did before I knew, use a crimp terminal on the end. The best approach would be to use the existing ring terminal with a screw terminal switch or other screw terminal device. Be careful when attempting to strip the insulation. The wire is easily damaged. 
[/font][/font][/quote]Interesting... so the entire wire is the heater? Even that rear compartment is receiving some portion of the heat?
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on July 16, 2014, 09:39:48 AM
[quote source="/post/2015/thread" timestamp="1405486930" author="@tinkeringtechie"]Interesting... so the entire wire is the heater? Even that rear compartment is receiving some portion of the heat?[/quote][font face="arial" size="3"]Apparently so. Aside from my basic philosophical [/font][font face="arial" size="3"]disagreement with heaters in fridges, now I find I'm heating the great outdoors when it's already 100F. Hmmmmm.
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Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: tinkeringtechie on July 16, 2014, 10:21:48 AM
That's even more disappointing. You wouldn't think it would be that difficult to use low impedance wire until it gets to the frame itself. I wonder what percentage of the 500mA actually makes it to the frame. Now I'm really glad that I've disconnected it. I still haven't noticed any difference.You'll have to let me know if you see any changes with it off. Maybe if you're full-timing in a swamp it might condense enough to freeze shut (silicone grease on the seal?)
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on July 16, 2014, 12:37:52 PM
[quote source="/post/2021/thread" timestamp="1405516908" author="@tinkeringtechie"]That's even more disappointing. You wouldn't think it would be that difficult to use low impedance wire until it gets to the frame itself. I wonder what percentage of the 500mA actually makes it to the frame. Now I'm really glad that I've disconnected it. I still haven't noticed any difference.You'll have to let me know if you see any changes with it off. Maybe if you're full-timing in a swamp it might condense enough to freeze shut (silicone grease on the seal?)[/quote][font face="arial" size="3"]According to the Dometic brochure the two door models had a switch inside, called climate control, with instructions to [/font][font size="3"]turn it on for high humidity environments. Probably generated too many calls to customer service asking "what's this switch for?" So, to save a few cents and some call center labor, they changed it to "automatic front frame heater" and eliminated the switch. I think the only problem would be cold, damp environments where the dew point is close to air temp and close to freezing. Warmer high humidity environments, where the ambient air temp is high, would only result in condensation. If the trailer inside temp is comfortable freezing should not be a problem. More to follow after I gather some experience.
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Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on August 19, 2014, 12:38:50 AM
[font size="3"]I can now report on the effect of the frame heater in the Dometic 7 cu. ft. fridge. As previously reported I installed a switch to disable the heater to save battery power when dry camping. On a recent trip to central Florida during a hot, humid, rainy week I experimented with and without the heater. Without the heater connected I observed water condensing on the front frame piece between the top of the refrigerator door and the bottom of the freezer door. It was enough to cause water to collect and stand on the top edge of the refrigerator door. No frost or ice was observed. When I turned the heater on the condensation appeared to cease. I must stress that this was under extreme humidity conditions: 95%-100% RH with temperatures at 90F plus and periods of rain outside (standard Florida summer); A/C running inside.

My conclusion is the switch addition is definitely worthwhile. Apparently Dometic thought so too, until they recently deleted it. If it's hot/humid enough for A/C you will probably have shore power available and can run the frame heater. If it's cool/dry enough to dry camp without A/C you can save 12 amp-hours per day of battery power by turning off the heater. Even if the condensation does form it's more of a curiosity than a problem.
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Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: drake on July 15, 2016, 12:24:15 AM
Great thread. I'm throwing in a relay to the ac so it will run when I'm on shore power anyway. What a waste of juice when boondocking, anything else like this?
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: tinkeringtechie on July 15, 2016, 03:45:08 PM
[quote timestamp="1468553055" source="/post/23037/thread" author="@drake"]Great thread. I'm throwing in a relay to the ac so it will run when I'm on shore power anyway. What a waste of juice when boondocking, anything else like this? [/quote]Let us know how it goes. I never got around to adding the relay because I didn't notice any difference when I just disconnected the heater entirely. We used the fridge non-stop for an entire year and never once had issues with condensation or freezing on the frame.
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: daplumbr on July 15, 2016, 05:05:52 PM
I'd like to install the heater switch, but can't find the blue wire. The connections on mine don't look like TT's photos. Last night the frame my fridge was very warm and it violates all my practical nature to have the door frame of a REFRIGERATOR heated. I guess I'll have to track down the heater wire with my meter. 
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on July 15, 2016, 05:49:26 PM
Merlin,

Post a picture of the back including the ground stud. Maybe we can help. Else look for a wire carrying 0.5A when the fridge is on. I agree the function is a bit useless and can probably be left disconnected. May only be useful in swampy FL.
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: daplumbr on July 15, 2016, 10:35:02 PM
Will do, but not for a little while. Mods on the road are just beyond too risky.  :)
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: dan on July 17, 2016, 04:49:49 PM
Charlie/Merlin:

I'm not sure, but it appears that the frame heater might not be present in all models of the Dometic fridge.  I have a model 2554.  I tried to perform fasteddie's frame heater switch mod yesterday and encountered a different configuaration than the photos he posted.  The wiring diagram for the 2554 (attached) does not include a "heating cable" component.  The wiring diagrams for other Dometic models that I looked at in the Dometic manual (e.g. 2620 and 2820) clearly show a "heating cable" component normally powered out of J2.  Am I missing something?  Any thoughts?

[attachment id="1584" thumbnail="1"]
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on July 17, 2016, 06:58:22 PM
[font size="3"]Dan,

To save me the effort of looking up your models, how many doors on your fridge? If you do not have two doors (separate freezer) you do not have the frame heater. I'm thinking you have the single door 5 cu ft fridge.

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Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: dan on July 17, 2016, 07:20:06 PM
Yup - I've got the single door unit.  Thanks.
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: daplumbr on July 18, 2016, 12:51:59 AM
Hmm.  I have a single door, but definitely a warm (almost hot) frame. I have no doubt there is a heater there. Dan, thanks for the simple idea of looking at the wiring diagram. I'll do that (duh moment). 
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: charliem on July 18, 2016, 01:05:12 AM
[font size="3"]Looking at the schematic Dan posted, I see no frame heater. I see the 120V and 12V heaters (K&J) for the evaporator, but no frame heater. It's my understanding that the "environmental control" frame heater is only on the two door models.
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Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: drake on July 19, 2016, 11:30:51 PM

Ok, tossed in a simple relay and wired the AC coil off the top of the outlet the fridge plugs into.  Even though the relay is well secured, I was not comfortable with the bare terminals on AC power, so I coated them a few times with liquid electrical tape.


(https://i.imgsafe.org/ee23b78c5f.jpg)
Title: Fridge frame heater switch
Post by: daplumbr on August 28, 2016, 07:53:32 PM
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/23149/thread" timestamp="1468814712[font size="3"]Looking at the schematic Dan posted, I see no frame heater. I see the 120V and 12V heaters (K&J) for the evaporator, but no frame heater. It's my understanding that the "environmental control" frame heater is only on the two door models.
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Going back to an older thread, I found out I was wrong (there's always a first time). My single door refrigerator doesn't apparently have a frame heater. What I thought was a heated frame was actually a very warm place on the frame directly below the control switches. Evidently the control unit runs warm with the LEDs and current through the wires and some of that heat is transferred to the frame, but only in a small area. My bad that I didn't feel the rest of the frame before concluding I had a full frame heater.