We are in the market for a Camplite trailer, and are leaning towards the 16BHB. I called the factory today to ask a few questions, and man did I get some answers. The 16BHB floor plan is being changed to look more like the 13BHB with the bath at the back of the trailer. In addition, the black exterior package, combo LP and electric hot water heater, blank tank flush kit and 4" x 4" bumper will supposedly now be standard.
However, the big bombshell was a change to using wood cabinet doors similar to those used in other trailers. The driver of the change was customer preference. Also, it saves a lot of money per door. So the cost savings will allow for the new standard features at a lower overall price.
I like the new floor plan (I think), but I'm not sure how I feel about the cabinets. I will wait to see pictures before I order anything.
Perhaps with Scott leaving, Camplites will be manufactured like other RVs. Too bad. I prefer my aluminum cabinets. Camplites won't be special. Quality will be lower.
Maybe if you special order it, they can make the frame steel, and the walls out of fiberglass over plywood.
Are they really wood or some type of particle board? I like the 4x4 bumper. I like the rear bath. A nicely done true maple millwork on the doors could look good. I wonder if the bathroom door will also be glossy tiger stripe maple?
Blasphemy.....
[quote source="/post/14180/thread" timestamp="1439553771" author="@shovelhead"]Blasphemy..... [/quote]Now I don't feel so bad about my [strong]Genuine Wooden[/strong] charging shelf! I am a trend setter.
Echo that Shovelhead. It looks like for some models the "all aluminum" description will be changed to "all aluminum, except for . . . ." Hope this isn't the beginning of more changes to come just to save a buck.
[font size="3"]Interesting development. [/font][font size="3"]These all are good indications that LL is listening to and responding to their customers. [/font][font size="3"]When I ordered my 2014 21RBS in late 2013 the dual mode WH, black tank flusher, and 4" square bumper were not even offered as options. The chief engineer even pushed back on the flusher due to "customer dissatisfaction issues". I supplied a drawing of exactly how I wanted the bumper to be built. When I got the trailer they had implemented all my requests beautifully.
Re the cabinets, I too prefer the aluminum doors for weight, but wood would cure the sharp corner problem. If they are, in fact, real wood and they retain some positive locking mechanism, they would be acceptable.
The real interesting questions will be what will they do with the exterior surfaces and roof and how will they respond to customization requests. The announced Ford branded TT/TH lines with fiberglass walls and rubber roofs sound like a troubling trend. And I hope the big corporate bean counters don't squash LL's willingness to work with a customer's individual requests, but time will tell.
[/font]
Fix all the current issues and we as campers wouldn't need to perform our "Mods". i.e. flooring, front door steps, etc... etc...
Maybe Christian and/or Taylor can fill us in on the details. I gather they are privy to the real wood vs particle board question as well as if the bathroom door will match the rest of the cabinetry. I assume they are from Marketing?
[font size="3"]One more thought on "no wood". IMHO, some wood in cabinet facing is not so terrible, but it does weigh more. The real problem with wood is in the walls, ceiling, and floor where it is hidden from daily view. When a leak develops, as it must in any moving trailer, hidden wood will rot until it requires major effort/cost to repair. That's the major problem LL has, or had, addressed. Let's hope that doesn't change. I have nightmares that LL announces they've fixed the cold floors with a plywood sandwich.
[/font]
As you know, only some "woods" are not the best choice for wet locations. The better varieties tend to be costly and heavy. I'd take a Mahogany floor for instance. No plywood sandwiches, I agree. Zero particle board is a requirement even in my home.
I've swiped my cabinets and walls in the TT pretty hard loading and living in there with no scratches and dents in the Adzel. I love this stuff...
I have a hard time believing the new cabinetry will be milled maple at a cost savings unless today's existing cellular manufacturing techniques are underdeveloped. I suspect the cost savings is more related to market share and being absorbed into a higher corporation.
It was the "all aluminum" description that sold my husband and I on the Camplite. We have seen many trailers where even fine wood cabinet doors had some warping, and of course we saw water damage on wood. Granted, the interior is not luxurious, as compared to, say, the Airstream, but we will not be replacing interior items due to rust or rot.
If this is the direction of Camplites for the future, then I see no advantage of Camplites over the rest of the trailers on the market. And to think that I was not happy when I discovered that there was a wood core in the entry door!
I wouldn't have paid the extra money for the Camplite 21BHS if it had normal cabinet doors. The lack of wood as well as the latches helped sell us as well as the lack of wood floor and overall construction.
The additional features at a lower cost is great news. No matter my preference in cabinet type I'm sure the looks of the new cabinets is warmer and more eye pleasing. Eye pleasing is one of the major gripes I've read about online in other blogs and forums.
I'm not sure I'd have chosen differently in brand if the CL's had wood cabinetry. I'll never need to know as this trailer is supposed to be the last one we'll ever need to purchase. Re-facing the cabinets would be pretty simple though costly.
I am disappointed to hear about the wood cabinets. My wife and I were hoping to order a CL in the spring. We were going to custom order cabinets with aluminum faces instead of the Azdel.
While I prefer the look of the aluminum cabinets my concern with wood cabinets is not with the appearance but with how the cabinets will be anchored. I fear the answer is that wood blocking will be inserted in the aluminum sidewall framing. With the composite Azdel interior wall panels - hopefully that isn't another "value" change - any moisture from infiltration or condensation has nowhere to go making any wood blocking susceptible to rot.
The original comment by Brothernumpsy was that the cabinet doors would be wood. That does not necessarily mean that the cabinets won't still be framed in aluminum. The current cabinets can have framed wood doors attached to their fronts quite easily. In this scenario the sides & soffits of cabinets might continue to be azdel on aluminum.
I find it funny that wood doors is supposedly customer driven. Besides current owners the main feedback Livin'Lite would get is from dealers. I have no doubt that dealers might think potential buyers might like real wood better. That's what the majority of their rv inventory has and what most buyers are familiar with -- a predominantly homogenized rv industry. That certainly doesn't make it better. I think the real issue is most dealers don't really sell up the non-wood aspect very effectively. Currently Livin'Lite's market is the people who do recognize & appreciate the difference --- and changing to wood cabinets might alienate some of us without really expanding the market any.
For anyone interested in custom ordering -- here's what I did. I had the trailer interior walls done in aluminum rather than azdel. All the cabinets (and the wet bath's outside faces) are done in the wood-grain azdel. It looks fantastic. Far better than the standard boring & plain-looking azdel walls. The aluminum walls are very functional in that they are easy to clean and easy to screw to if needed. The look brand spanking new after a few years of use. Importantly to me at least, the interior of my trailer doesn't look like a typical generic rv. It looks 1000-times better!
[font size="3" face="arial"]LL has two main selling points to the general public: weight and durability. Wood cabinet doors detract from the former but not the latter. IMHO wood doors may counter the no wood slogan, but aside from weight they do not detract from the functional goals. Exposed doors are not likely to rot. The real problem would be concealed wood framing members in walls, ceiling and floor that are exposed to undetected leaks. As PEIslander points out, totally wood cabinets are not an absolute given. We will have to see. [/font]
[quote source="/post/14229/thread" timestamp="1439735677" author="@charliem"][font face="arial" size="3"]LL has two main selling points to the general public: weight and durability. Wood cabinet doors detract from the former but not the latter. IMHO wood doors may counter the no wood slogan, but aside from weight they do not detract from the functional goals. Exposed doors are not likely to rot. The real problem would be concealed wood framing members in walls, ceiling and floor that are exposed to undetected leaks. As PEIslander points out, totally wood cabinets are not an absolute given. We will have to see. [/font][/quote]My assumption is the cabinet doors will be like they were in the fifth wheels; aluminum framed cabinets with just wood faces. To me. the biggest plus to the current Camplite doors are the latches. They are much more secure, and I know several people with other brand campers who after traveling, open their camper to find the contents of a cabinet dumped on the floor because the standard clip door retainer did not hold the door closed in a sharp turn.
[quote source="/post/14230/thread" timestamp="1439736127" author="@djsamuel"]To me. the biggest plus to the current Camplite doors are the latches. They are much more secure, and I know several people with other brand campers who after traveling, open their camper to find the contents of a cabinet dumped on the floor because the standard clip door retainer did not hold the door closed in a sharp turn. [/quote][font face="arial" size="3"]
Doug,
I agree as I've stated before. [/font][font face="arial" size="3"]LL got[/font][font face="arial" size="3"] the aircraft type locking latches right. That said, there are ways to accomplish similar results with wood doors. We'll see. [/font]
I was "no wood" before it was cool.
Ignore the photographer, and observe the door and cabinetry... look familiar ? lol....
[img style="" style="max-width:100%;" src="http://photolib.ssbn634.com/Hottinger/stoneyj_pic1.jpg"]
[quote source="/post/14234/thread" timestamp="1439743200" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/14230/thread" timestamp="1439736127" author="@djsamuel"]To me. the biggest plus to the current Camplite doors are the latches. They are much more secure, and I know several people with other brand campers who after traveling, open their camper to find the contents of a cabinet dumped on the floor because the standard clip door retainer did not hold the door closed in a sharp turn. [/quote][font face="arial" size="3"]
Doug,
I agree as I've stated before. [/font][font face="arial" size="3"]LL got[/font][font face="arial" size="3"] the aircraft type locking latches right. That said, there are ways to accomplish similar results with wood doors. We'll see. [/font]
[/quote]Agree 100%. However, the Alumalite 5th Wheel campers do not appear to retain this type of latch with the wood doors. If the latch is good however, doesn't matter. Certainly more than one way to skin a latch. :)
You can look at the interior pictures at the link below to see how they did it for the 5th wheels.
[a href="http://livinlite.com/alumalite28rls-gallery.php"]Alumalite Gallery[/a]
Quote from: @aggie79" source="/post/14225/thread" timestamp="1439728288I am disappointed to hear about the wood cabinets. My wife and I were hoping to order a CL in the spring. We were going to custom order cabinets with aluminum faces instead of the Azdel.
While I prefer the look of the aluminum cabinets my concern with wood cabinets is not with the appearance but with how the cabinets will be anchored. I fear the answer is that wood blocking will be inserted in the aluminum sidewall framing. With the composite Azdel interior wall panels - hopefully that isn't another "value" change - any moisture from infiltration or condensation has nowhere to go making any wood blocking susceptible to rot.
Thus far, LL has been very accommodating with regard to customizing, although they do charge extra. I ordered my Camplite with the Azdel maple wood for the walls, and aluminum for the cabinets. People have commented that it looks like a cabin inside. My husband and I have been very happy with it.
Go ahead and order your Camplite customized, and see if the factory will do it.
[quote timestamp="1439731349" source="/post/14226/thread" author="@peislander"]The original comment by Brothernumpsy was that the cabinet doors would be wood. That does not necessarily mean that the cabinets won't still be framed in aluminum. The current cabinets can have framed wood doors attached to their fronts quite easily. In this scenario the sides & soffits of cabinets might continue to be azdel on aluminum.
I find it funny that wood doors is supposedly customer driven. Besides current owners the main feedback Livin'Lite would get is from dealers. I have no doubt that dealers might think potential buyers might like real wood better. That's what the majority of their rv inventory has and what most buyers are familiar with -- a predominantly homogenized rv industry. That certainly doesn't make it better. I think the real issue is most dealers don't really sell up the non-wood aspect very effectively. Currently Livin'Lite's market is the people who do recognize & appreciate the difference --- and changing to wood cabinets might alienate some of us without really expanding the market any.
For anyone interested in custom ordering -- here's what I did. I had the trailer interior walls done in aluminum rather than azdel. All the cabinets (and the wet bath's outside faces) are done in the wood-grain azdel. It looks fantastic. Far better than the standard boring & plain-looking azdel walls. The aluminum walls are very functional in that they are easy to clean and easy to screw to if needed. The look brand spanking new after a few years of use. Importantly to me at least, the interior of my trailer doesn't look like a typical generic rv. It looks 1000-times better![/quote]To clarify, I was told that only the cabinet doors would be wood with an aluminum frame cabinet structure as before.
Quote from: @peislander" timestamp="1439731349" source="/post/14226/threadThe original comment by Brothernumpsy was that the cabinet doors would be wood. That does not necessarily mean that the cabinets won't still be framed in aluminum. The current cabinets can have framed wood doors attached to their fronts quite easily. In this scenario the sides & soffits of cabinets might continue to be azdel on aluminum.
I find it funny that wood doors is supposedly customer driven. Besides current owners the main feedback Livin'Lite would get is from dealers. I have no doubt that dealers might think potential buyers might like real wood better. That's what the majority of their rv inventory has and what most buyers are familiar with -- a predominantly homogenized rv industry. That certainly doesn't make it better. I think the real issue is most dealers don't really sell up the non-wood aspect very effectively. Currently Livin'Lite's market is the people who do recognize & appreciate the difference --- and changing to wood cabinets might alienate some of us without really expanding the market any.
For anyone interested in custom ordering -- here's what I did. I had the trailer interior walls done in aluminum rather than azdel. All the cabinets (and the wet bath's outside faces) are done in the wood-grain azdel. It looks fantastic. Far better than the standard boring & plain-looking azdel walls. The aluminum walls are very functional in that they are easy to clean and easy to screw to if needed. The look brand spanking new after a few years of use. Importantly to me at least, the interior of my trailer doesn't look like a typical generic rv. It looks 1000-times better!
I agree with PEIslander on the look of the interior with aluminum skins and we went with white cabinet aluminum door skins for the Retro look Livinlite started with.
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/Our%20New%20Camper/image.jpg2_zpsqiqpsql0.jpg)
Leslie is right order what you want and hopefully LL will still build you your custom camper the way you want it.
As they say "upon further review" the Livin Lite Fifth Wheel trailer specs say that LL is retaining the aluminum cabinet framing and applying hardwood doors to the frames. In this picture from the fifth wheel gallery, you can see the doors in an upper cabinet. The doors appear to be cope and stick construction so that would make them hardwood construction. The wood species is not evident. They did a pretty good job of color matching the door stain to the Azdel (?) facing. It appears that the aluminum frame is also wrapped with a similar material. The doors appear to use 3/8" offset cabinet hinges with the hinges screwed into the aluminum. There may be internal catches.
(http://www.livinlite.com/gallery/a33rlts/slides/DSC_0106.jpg)From what I can tell from the pictures, the construction seems to be pretty good. To me, though, the look is like any other generic travel trailer.
If we decide to purchase, hopefully LL will still allow customization.
Quote from: @ammobob" source="/post/14264/thread" timestamp="1439832294[quote timestamp="1439731349" source="/post/14226/thread" author="@peislander"]The original comment by Brothernumpsy was that the cabinet doors would be wood. That does not necessarily mean that the cabinets won't still be framed in aluminum. The current cabinets can have framed wood doors attached to their fronts quite easily. In this scenario the sides & soffits of cabinets might continue to be azdel on aluminum.
I find it funny that wood doors is supposedly customer driven. Besides current owners the main feedback Livin'Lite would get is from dealers. I have no doubt that dealers might think potential buyers might like real wood better. That's what the majority of their rv inventory has and what most buyers are familiar with -- a predominantly homogenized rv industry. That certainly doesn't make it better. I think the real issue is most dealers don't really sell up the non-wood aspect very effectively. Currently Livin'Lite's market is the people who do recognize & appreciate the difference --- and changing to wood cabinets might alienate some of us without really expanding the market any.
For anyone interested in custom ordering -- here's what I did. I had the trailer interior walls done in aluminum rather than azdel. All the cabinets (and the wet bath's outside faces) are done in the wood-grain azdel. It looks fantastic. Far better than the standard boring & plain-looking azdel walls. The aluminum walls are very functional in that they are easy to clean and easy to screw to if needed. The look brand spanking new after a few years of use. Importantly to me at least, the interior of my trailer doesn't look like a typical generic rv. It looks 1000-times better!
I agree with PEIslander on the look of the interior with aluminum skins and we went with white cabinet aluminum door skins for the Retro look Livinlite started with.
[img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/Our%20New%20Camper/image.jpg2_zpsqiqpsql0.jpg"]
Leslie is right order what you want and hopefully LL will still build you your custom camper the way you want it.[/quote]
I REALLY like that countertop. Sure beats the laminate (or de-laminate) counter installed on mine. At least I get good use out of the can of contact cement I have. Works great, but don't get it on the foam. It will dissolve it like melting butter.
[quote source="/post/14269/thread" timestamp="1439841730" author="@aggie79"]As they say "upon further review" the Livin Lite Fifth Wheel trailer specs say that LL is retaining the aluminum cabinet framing and applying hardwood doors to the frames. In this picture from the fifth wheel gallery, you can see the doors in an upper cabinet. The doors appear to be cope and stick construction so that would make them hardwood construction. The wood species is not evident. They did a pretty good job of color matching the door stain to the Azdel (?) facing. It appears that the aluminum frame is also wrapped with a similar material. The doors appear to use 3/8" offset cabinet hinges with the hinges screwed into the aluminum. There may be internal catches.
(http://www.livinlite.com/gallery/a33rlts/slides/DSC_0106.jpg)Also notice the pic shows windows with conventional pleated blinds --- not the cassette ones that have been used in Camplites to date. Seeing those blinds makes me think they were really trying to show they could build a conventional looking RV just like every other manufacturer. I really hope they don't go that direction. Seems to me they need to talk more with the people who have already bought Camplites and try to understand what made them buy --- then use that info to market to others who will be attracted to those same qualities.
Just to clarify, yes there will be changes down the road involving cabinetry. The cabinet frames will still be all aluminum tubing, just the cabinet fronts and stiles will be wood. pr
The main reason we want a CL is to get away from wood.. If I wanted wood and aluminum, I wouldn't be selling the Airstream. Depending on when CL decides to implement this.. I guess we will be looking on the secondary market.
[quote timestamp="1439924926" source="/post/14311/thread" author="@livinlitepaul"]Just to clarify, yes there will be changes down the road involving cabinetry. The cabinet frames will still be all aluminum tubing, just the cabinet fronts and stiles will be wood. pr[/quote]Paul,
Thanks for the answer from LivinLite. I'm glad to see the increased participation.
I am concerned about the use of wood in the trailers. The lack of any wood is really one of the big factors that had me purchase my 21BHS and, in spite of several quality issues, still makes me happy that I did. I still recommend the Camplite trailers to people, and often feel like a Camplite salesman on the Good Sams forums.
Are there plans to move away from other unique characteristics of the Camplites; such as aluminum roof, aluminum floor, azdel walls, the windows etc? Remember, those of us who purchased from Livinlite were willing to pay a significant premium for a reason. I hope that remains.
Thanks,
Doug
[quote source="/post/14289/thread" timestamp="1439890424" author="@peislander"]Also notice the pic shows windows with conventional pleated blinds --- not the cassette ones that have been used in Camplites to date. Seeing those blinds makes me think they were really trying to show they could build a conventional looking RV just like every other manufacturer. I really hope they don't go that direction. Seems to me they need to talk more with the people who have already bought Camplites and try to understand what made them buy --- then use that info to market to others who will be attracted to those same qualities. [/quote]Yep, those blinds made me cringe. I had something similar on my previous trailer and ripped them out to install vinyl blackout shades. The camplite shades are as close to perfection as I've ever seen. My kids sleep in as long as we want them to thanks to those shades. My only complaint is having to split it to open the window, but it's still worth it.
[quote source="/post/14327/thread" author="@djsamuel" timestamp="1439945539"][quote source="/post/14311/thread" timestamp="1439924926" author="@livinlitepaul"]Just to clarify, yes there will be changes down the road involving cabinetry. The cabinet frames will still be all aluminum tubing, just the cabinet fronts and stiles will be wood. pr[/quote]Paul,
Thanks for the answer from LivinLite. I'm glad to see the increased participation.
I am concerned about the use of wood in the trailers. The lack of any wood is really one of the big factors that had me purchase my 21BHS and, in spite of several quality issues, still makes me happy that I did. I still recommend the Camplite trailers to people, and often feel like a Camplite salesman on the Good Sams forums.
Are there plans to move away from other unique characteristics of the Camplites; such as aluminum roof, aluminum floor, azdel walls, the windows etc? Remember, those of us who purchased from Livinlite were willing to pay a significant premium for a reason. I hope that remains.
Thanks,
Doug[/quote]Doug,
We would like to thank you for continued support on this forum as well as others. We do not have plans do move away from the Livin Lite's unique charactistic of all aluminum construction. We appreciate the feedback we receive from our customers. After listening to many of our customers we decided to add decroative wood cabinet fronts to our existing all aluminum cabinet frames in our Camplight Trailers. That being said, the Livin Lite product line is still going to maintain their core beliefs of all aluminum framed construction, which means the continued use of aluminum floors,roof and the placement of Azdel on the interior walls.
Thanks,
Paul
[quote source="/post/14366/thread" timestamp="1440013586" author="@livinlitepaul"][quote source="/post/14327/thread" timestamp="1439945539" author="@djsamuel"]Paul,
Thanks for the answer from LivinLite. I'm glad to see the increased participation.
I am concerned about the use of wood in the trailers. The lack of any wood is really one of the big factors that had me purchase my 21BHS and, in spite of several quality issues, still makes me happy that I did. I still recommend the Camplite trailers to people, and often feel like a Camplite salesman on the Good Sams forums.
Are there plans to move away from other unique characteristics of the Camplites; such as aluminum roof, aluminum floor, azdel walls, the windows etc? Remember, those of us who purchased from Livinlite were willing to pay a significant premium for a reason. I hope that remains.
Thanks,
Doug[/quote]Doug,
We would like to thank you for continued support on this forum as well as others. We do not have plans do move away from the Livin Lite's unique charactistic of all aluminum construction. We appreciate the feedback we receive from our customers. After listening to many of our customers we decided to add decroative wood cabinet fronts to our existing all aluminum cabinet frames in our Camplight Trailers. That being said, the Livin Lite product line is still going to maintain their core beliefs of all aluminum framed construction, which means the continued use of aluminum floors,roof and the placement of Azdel on the interior walls.
Thanks,
Paul
[/quote]Thanks Paul. You will be preserving the main characteristics that make the Camplites unique. The biggest complaint from non-owners I've heard, is that the interior "looks too utilitarian". I can see how the wood doors will help that. However, as someone here suggested, it would be great if the existing doors can be kept as an option. I will say I like the current doors, especially the latches. The latches are one of the things that sold my wife on the Camplites.
Thanks again for the reply.
Doug
[quote source="/post/14371/thread" timestamp="1440028146" author="@djsamuel"] The biggest complaint from non-owners I've heard, is that the interior "looks too utilitarian". I can see how the wood doors will help that. However, as someone here suggested, it would be great if the existing doors can be kept as an option. I will say I like the current doors, especially the latches. The latches are one of the things that sold my wife on the Camplites.
Thanks again for the reply.
Doug
[/quote]I've described the utilitarian look as 'like a meat locker' and 'like the inside of an ambulance' . :)
But - that utilitarian, functional design with all aluminum cabinets, decent mechanical latches, the excellently designed blinds and windows, and the structural aluminum floor are what sold me on the camper and convinced me to pay way on the high end of the price scale.
As long as aluminum + azdel interior is kept as an option, and as long as I can custom order, I'll keep salivating over what someday will be a new truck and Camplite truck camper. If I'm forced into god awful 1970's flocked, fluffy, fuzzy interiors and vinyl or wood floors, I'll buy from someone else.
-Mike
The aluminum cabinets and doors were not a selling point for me initially, but now that I've had my CL for awhile, I wouldn't want to give them up if I were to buy a new CL in the future. I also appreciate the absence of particle board and formaldehyde odors.
Graham
[quote timestamp="1439766218" author="@leslie" source="/post/14243/thread"]
Go ahead and order your Camplite customized, and see if the factory will do it.[/quote]Leslie -- your combination of woodgrain walls & aluminum cabinet skins sounds really cool. Cabin chic! Do you have a picture you can post? I'm guessing that if more people knew that was possible -- it would be popular -- and potentially sell more Camplites. I can imagine that scheme would be particularly popular with the truck camper crowd.
Quote from: @peislander" psource="/post/14376/thread" timestamp="1440035462[quote source="/post/14243/thread" timestamp="1439766218" author="@leslie"]Go ahead and order your Camplite customized, and see if the factory will do it.
Leslie -- your combination of woodgrain walls & aluminum cabinet skins sounds really cool. Cabin chic! Do you have a picture you can post? I'm guessing that if more people knew that was possible -- it would be popular -- and potentially sell more Camplites. I can imagine that scheme would be particularly popular with the truck camper crowd. [/quote]
There are pictures of my Camplite posted in this section, Camplite Travel Trailers, titled Finally! Our custom Camplite! The last post in that thread was mine in November, 2014. I took those pictures the first weekend we had the trailer. I do a much better job now of putting away the tip-out bunk!
Thanks Leslie -- >> [a href="http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/549/finally-custom-camplite?page=3"]I found your pics here.[/a] << Yours is the opposite of ours! You are the yin to our yang! Together we bring balance & harmony to the Camplite world. 8-) In ours we have the wood grain on all that you have aluminum & we have aluminum where you have wood grain. I think both your yin & our yang look better than the either the current standard or the planned wood-covered-cabinet approach. Ours predates the use of black-painted aluminum trims.
(http://s1.postimg.org/rzdtrozvj/DSCF3211.jpg"%20style="max-width:100%;)
As we are in the middle of a 8 day loop through the Catskill mountains, down through PA then up through CT, we have shown our "all Azdel" 16DB to three couples. All of them were the same. The men liked the utilitarian look and the women wished for wood cabinetry.
So, I see this wood cabinetry thing as a net gain for LivinLite. The guys are still gonna choose CampLite for the bones of the structure and the woman will be more apt to allow CampLite into their world.
LivinLite....making lifelong marriages possible....
Oh, and to add, I like those wood cabinet pics posted above. Could this mean I am in touch with my feminine side? Where is Dr. Phil when you need him!
Our first trailer had all wood cabinets. They were real solid oak doors and plywood. I have built many cabinets in my past and found myself remodeling the ones that came from the factory. That being said, when I discovered LivinLite on the internet, I was VERY impressed with the idea of full piano hinges and great latches on the cabinet doors. Full piano hinges, for those who might not know, are very expensive compared to european hinges. They have an advantage of, if installed correctly, not ever " sagging ", thus needing adjustment. They are also VERY TIME CONSUMING to install. Therein lies the reasoning, I think, for the change to wooden doors. Easier and less expensive to install. If LivinLite changes to wood as noted here, it will just make my trailer worth more if I ever choose to sell it.
P.S. the window screen units were also a BIG selling point to us, although I fear they might not last the test of time. We have been camping for about eight weeks in Maine, and we LOVE our "Palace".
Hope the factory realizes that they had a very special "niche" in the market. I could have easily purchased a Lance.
HAPPY TRAILS
Hate to say it, wife and I spent a couple hours yesterday looking at Surveyors and Ceder Creeks and such. I am not going to pay double the money for the same old wood pieces. We wanted a CL BECAUSE of the all AL build and ability to customize.
Quote from: @furpod" source="/post/14479/thread" timestamp="1440359016Hate to say it, wife and I spent a couple hours yesterday looking at Surveyors and Ceder Creeks and such. I am not going to pay double the money for the same old wood pieces. We wanted a CL BECAUSE of the all AL build and ability to customize.
I think furpod is smart to be doing this. I was looking at Aerolites before I decided to go with a Camplite. I looked at the wood cabinets in the Aerolites, and then I looked at the aluminum cabinets in the Camplites. Even though the aluminum cabinets had to be custom-ordered, I went with Camplite and paid more.
If I were looking today, and saw wood cabinets in Camplites, I would buy an Aerolite. For what I paid for my Camplite, I could buy 3 Aerolites. That would mean less money out of my pocket if I just use the Aerolite until the wood wore out, and then replace it with another Aerolite.
As things are right now, there is a lot of diversity in the RV market, with LL having its own niche. If Thor LL decides to go more "mainstream" with its offerings, then there will be diminished choice in the market for the buyers.
This is disappointing to hear that the CL is closing the doors on customization. I am not opposed to wood cabinets but just don't care for the cheesy styling of generic RV cabinetry. It looks like I may have to go back to "plan A", before I discovered CL, which is to convert an all aluminum cargo trailer into a travel trailer.
Let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. While I much prefer the current cabinet doors and think it is important to keep them as an option, we don't want to forget the other even more important characteristics of the Camplites. If you soend some time reading posts on the Good Sam forums, you will read endless accounts of rotting floors, rotting roof trusses, torn and leaking rubber roofs, axles loaded right to or over their capacity, unbelievable dry weights, overloaded tires, black, grey and freshwater tanks falling out, and more. The overall design and construction of the Camplites makes them impervious to rot,less effected by leaks, lightweight, great to tow, and extremely tough. Would I purchase another Camplite even if it had wood doors? Probably since the other characteristics are of even higher importance to me. However, I think the current doors are much better, especially the latches and would be disappointed to see that disappear. The question is, will they gain more sales than they lose with this change. Hopefully we will.always have the option on the doors.
[p]^^^ This. ^^^[/p][p]
[/p][p]Loss of customization is the biggest downside IMO. So far at least. It is also the most predictable change as LL is absorbed into a higher corporation.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The next great TT start up company? One that uses carbon fiber maybe? Richard Branson, are you listening?[/p][p]
[/p]
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/14496/thread" timestamp="1440418591Let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. While I much prefer the current cabinet doors and think it is important to keep them as an option, we don't want to forget the other even more important characteristics of the Camplites. .....................................
[font size="3"]Right on, Doug. I was thinking of a similar reply, but you got it perfectly. Some wood on cabinet fronts only adds weight. The real problems would be with wood in the floor/wall/ceiling and a rubber roof. That plus the 500-1500 added pounds for the same size. I hope we can reel Furpod back from the brink of the abyss.
I understand LL's decision not to offer aluminum wall covering as an option. That would require major material change going into the automated cutting operations. However, I hope they don't cut back on other requests like layouts, fans, and bumpers. There are plenty of generic "our way or no way" camper manufacturers out there.[/font]
[quote source="/post/14496/thread" timestamp="1440418591" author="@djsamuel"]Let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. While I much prefer the current cabinet doors and think it is important to keep them as an option, we don't want to forget the other even more important characteristics of the Camplites. If you soend some time reading posts on the Good Sam forums, you will read endless accounts of rotting floors, rotting roof trusses, torn and leaking rubber roofs, axles loaded right to or over their capacity, unbelievable dry weights, overloaded tires, black, grey and freshwater tanks falling out, and more. The overall design and construction of the Camplites makes them impervious to rot,less effected by leaks, lightweight, great to tow, and extremely tough. Would I purchase another Camplite even if it had wood doors? Probably since the other characteristics are of even higher importance to me. However, I think the current doors are much better, especially the latches and would be disappointed to see that disappear. The question is, will they gain more sales than they lose with this change. Hopefully we will.always have the option on the doors.[/quote]I agree that the cabinets and interior walls are a small part of why we all bought our Camplites. I would think that most of us purchased for the light weight and no wood camper and not just for cabinets or latches. I only hope that LL keeps the customization option open to those who want to pay the extra to get exactly what they want.
kinda makes me wonder if some of this is coming from dealer who want to move stock on their lots instead of constantly ordering custom models.
ok...I guess being a homebuilder i should appreciate a wood raised panel door,but that is precisely why i bought the camplite.The fact that it's completely different from every other tt.is what drew me in.When i first stumbled across the camplite and finally went to see it i thought it was so cool that not only the frame was aluminum but the whole finish work was also.Imeadiatly i was sold and spent a lot more than i planned originally. Now hearing about all the possible changes going on i am kinda disappointed on the direction ll seams to be going.Hope all the rumers are false.
Sorry, not trying to bash, or put down CL in any way, just stating what I am thinking and seeing..
It's not a bathwater, or single issue type of thing.. As you know I have been a fan of them (CampLites) for years, we had furpod sold and the order form filled out for a custom 21RBS, carried to the factory a couple years ago during the big FR rally at Goshen.. After long discussion, the Pod community held us, but we have planned all along to go to a CL "in the future", still fan enough that when our friends stick and paper SOB rotted and split apart, we helped them make the decision to go CL. (The future is now about 12-14 months away...)
But it's a compound of issues now. I have/had several customizations in mind, including the AL inner skins. Having screwed around with regular doors, and tambour doors, the door and latch design WAS a selling point to us also. I already have a lightweight, and well built, even with some wood in it TT. Going to a new CL was/is about getting a TT built just like we wanted, with materials we liked. I have to assume I can no longer get "any automotive color" paint I want on the outside either.
I figure I have about 20 more years of camping in me, and hopefully a decade of full timing in there somewhere. Looking at what we want and need size wise, as someone above pointed out, for the price I planned to pay for the CL, we can buy a new stick built 21 foot camper every 5 years, and come out about the same in the end, but having to buy what they build.. not what we want.. but also not dealing with any rot etc in our ownership of said cookie cutter campers.
Exactly how CL is swinging. (cookie cutter, our way or the highway)
Maybe they will change their minds.. maybe some other small manufacturer(s) will spring up.. maybe I will do exactly what my favorite dealership owner advised me this weekend.. She pointed out we DO have the experience and skill set to just build our own camper.. I don't know that I have the drive though..
But anyways.. CL isn't as of yet a nonstarter for us, but the more stuff they decide to mainstream, the easier it becomes to just buy a mainstream camper, for a LOT less money. Heck, we even looked at a couple small fivers this weekend. lol.
[quote source="/post/14459/thread" timestamp="1440296737" author="Amanda"][div][/div]My husband and I are in the process of placing an order for a 21BHS and really wanted aluminum walls instead of Azdel and was told by the factory that this is no longer something they are offering. We are disappointed as part of Living Lite's appeal was its willingness to customize. I was told that their production lines aren't equipped to handle requests like this anymore. I'm now thinking we had better place our order quickly since I do NOT want wooden cabinets. . I really hope Livin Lite doesn't loose it's unique look and build. The blinds being changed is a shame too... That is a feature we really loved. [/quote]Hi There!
Thank you for considering our product, and welcome to the family!
There are some small changes being made to the Livin Lite product, but (as LL paul mentioned earlier) we are still adhering to the quality and construction that you love. The wood cabinet doors were changed as a direct result of Livin Lite owner feedback...which is a good thing! The fact that we changed a part of our design to accommodate what our Owners are requesting shows that Livin Lite cares and is listening. :-)
To put the rumor to rest, I just spoke with one of the task force here at Livin Lite corporate, and he said that Livin Lite is just as open to customizing their units as ever! There are times when it may take longer to customize your unit, because of unusual time constraints placed on the plant at the time...but the customization is still being offered! Rest easy :-)
That being said, now that there are a couple of us from Livin Lite on this forum frequently, please do not hesitate to ask us these questions if you are concerned about our company or product. We would rather research a factual answer and convey it directly to you, our owners...rather than lay an untrue rumor to rest and have lots of worried people! We are here to help!
Thanks guys!
Quote from: @christianm" source="/post/14516/thread" timestamp="1440433918Quote from: Amanda" timestamp="1440296737" source="/post/14459/thread[div][/div]
To put the rumor to rest, I just spoke with one of the task force here at Livin Lite corporate, and he said that Livin Lite is just as open to customizing their units as ever! There are times when it may take longer to customize your unit, because of unusual time constraints placed on the plant at the time...but the customization is still being offered! Rest easy :-)
This is good news. Thanks for the update Christian. Now will come the flurry of questions about how much they can customize like are the aluminum walls still an option, are aluminum cabinet doors an option, can we still get the original blinds? Maybe posting a list of pending changes like the cabinet door fronts and available options like you can still get aluminum door fronts might stem some of the questions of what can you and can't you do. Just a thought to ease everyone's concerns. I say this as a owner of 2 Camplites. We owned a custom 2012 16DB (sold) and and now a 2016 custom 21 BHS. Both times our sales rep had to field several questions for me as we explored what we could and couldn't do. I think I almost drove Scott crazy as many times as I spoke with him.
[quote timestamp="1440436636" source="/post/14519/thread" author="@ammobob"]
Quote from: @christianm" source="/post/14516/thread" timestamp="1440433918To put the rumor to rest, I just spoke with one of the task force here at Livin Lite corporate, and he said that Livin Lite is just as open to customizing their units as ever! There are times when it may take longer to customize your unit, because of unusual time constraints placed on the plant at the time...but the customization is still being offered! Rest easy :-)
This is good news. Thanks for the update Christian. Now will come the flurry of questions about how much they can customize like are the aluminum walls still an option, are aluminum cabinet doors an option, can we still get the original blinds? Maybe posting a list of pending changes like the cabinet door fronts and available options like you can still get aluminum door fronts might stem some of the questions of what can you and can't you do. Just a thought to ease everyone's concerns. I say this as a owner of 2 Camplites. We owned a custom 2012 16DB (sold) and and now a 2016 custom 21 BHS. Both times our sales rep had to field several questions for me as we explored what we could and couldn't do. I think I almost drove Scott crazy as many times as I spoke with him.[/quote]This is a very good question, and I personally would be very interested in the answers.
Hi all!
In all blatant honesty, I have no idea which customization options they are approving and which they are not. Let me check with a couple of people and see if a) they would be willing to give me a list and b) if I am legally allowed to post that list. I'm still new enough to the company that I want to make sure I don't step on any toes in production and management. :-X :D Y'all stay tuned, I will let you know as soon as I know more! :-)
Assuming it is true, I'm so disappointed to hear Livinlite won't offer metal-faced cabinets any longer. While I hate to disagree with my better half (Ammobob), metal cabinets and walls were a HUGE consideration for me when we purchased our Camplite TT, especially the second time around. I find the industrial look very appealing - it's a camper after all. I really dislike pretender materials and I think warm wood tones make the interior of a small space feel darker and more confining. Apparently we were able to purchase our metal-bedecked TT just the nick of time, for which I am very grateful.
Quote from: @gmalala" source="/post/14877/thread" timestamp="1441466447Assuming it is true, I'm so disappointed to hear Livinlite won't offer metal-faced cabinets any longer. While I hate to disagree with my better half (Ammobob), metal cabinets and walls were a HUGE consideration for me when we purchased our Camplite TT, especially the second time around. I find the industrial look very appealing - it's a camper after all. I really dislike pretender materials and I think warm wood tones make the interior of a small space feel darker and more confining. Apparently we were able to purchase our metal-bedecked TT just the nick of time, for which I am very grateful.
I agree with you about the metal cabinets - aluminum cabinets. We chose ours for a very practical reason, though. Our dogs track in a lot of dirt, especially when we have rainy weather. I have a racing stripe down my hallway at home, which I have to wash off. With the aluminum cabinets, dirt falls off = less cleaning for me.
Hi all!
Ok, in checking with the Livin Lite production guys- I do have an update for those of you concerned about customization.
Though Livin Lite is still offering the option to customize, the factory has been declining ALL customization requests at this time. It is not something they are happy to do- but something they realize needs to be done in order to continue producing a quality product. :-) They are currently catching up from delays they experienced while moving factory location a while back, as well as preparing for 2 very large RV shows coming up over the next few months.
Our guys are aware that customization is a HUGE factor for many of you, and they want you to know that they are aware and that we ARE hearing you. Livin Lite will begin processing customization requests again as soon as possible, hopefully mid to late fall.
I know this may not be the answer that some of you want to hear, but know that everything is being done to ensure that our QC is where it needs to be for you and for future owners! I will update you when I hear more news :-)
Thanks!
Christian
When I heard about the changes, we decided to wait to order. However, their website says they do reserve the right to make changes without notice. I don't think it's unethical, but I do think it stinks and you should have the option to cancel without penalty. Have you asked them about canceling?
Pictures of the wood interior now up on LivinLite's FB page. To bad.
[quote source="/post/15366/thread" timestamp="1442670332" author="@furpod"]Pictures of the wood interior now up on LivinLite's FB page. To bad.[/quote]Actually that zebrawood style (don't know what they call it) is growing on me. I guess not as bad as they offer modern options. As long as the exterior and structure remains aluminum is ok for me. I was worried they would go the way same 99% of other RV manufacturers and offer the same cookie cutter style.
A tiny bit off topic, but...
...someone told me that LivinLite was going to steel frames.
Can anyone confirm or deny that?
The cabinet doors are not that huge a deal for me - a steel frame would be.
Quote from: @furpod" source="/post/15366/thread" timestamp="1442670332Pictures of the wood interior now up on LivinLite's FB page. To bad.
Furpod, thanks for the heads up. I agree with Fasteddie about a steel frame making a huge difference - not for the good.
I tried to see these changes on LivinLite webpage but to no avail. Seems to me that Thor is having a negative influence on the design of these trailers. I sense that the value of my rig keeps going up and up......???!!! It'll be a collectors item !!
Happy Trails.....
[quote timestamp="1442692372" source="/post/15376/thread" author="@fasteddieb"]A tiny bit off topic, but...
...someone told me that LivinLite was going to steel frames.
Can anyone confirm or deny that?
The cabinet doors are not that huge a deal for me - a steel frame would be.[/quote]Hi everybody. I just got back from the Hershey Show. I managed to find the small display of livin lite trailers and will post some pictures later today. I can confirm the cabinet frames are still aluminum as before. They seem to have 2 grades, both "flat" zebrawood as described and also a more traditional cabinet door look. I pulled, pushed, etc. "firmly"(as in I would never do that to my own camper) on both the frames and the doors when nobody was looking. Both seemed sturdy and made with quality.
To clarify...
When I referred to the frame, I was referring to the trailer frame, not the cabinet frames, possibly being made of steel at some point.
And it may be just a rumor.
[quote timestamp="1442775730" source="/post/15394/thread" author="@fasteddieb"]To clarify...
When I referred to the frame, I was referring to the trailer frame, not the cabinet frames, possibly being made of steel at some point.
And it may be just a rumor. [/quote]Ah... no signs of that. There appeared to be no changes the the stucture yet. I did however notice all models of camplite had the exterior siding made from 2 pieces rather than one. There was a seam running down the middle of all the trailers. I'm assuming that makes manufacturing easier.
I could not see any up to date photos on the LL website either. I do notice they continue to push the no wood theme. I believe this will get them a lawsuit sooner rather than later as they continue to push this marketing scheme. Buyer beware.
[quote source="/post/15395/thread" timestamp="1442776917" author="@tlbones"][quote source="/post/15394/thread" timestamp="1442775730" author="@fasteddieb"]To clarify...
When I referred to the frame, I was referring to the trailer frame, not the cabinet frames, possibly being made of steel at some point.
And it may be just a rumor. [/quote]Ah... no signs of that. There appeared to be no changes the the stucture yet. I did however notice all models of camplite had the exterior siding made from 2 pieces rather than one. There was a seam running down the middle of all the trailers. I'm assuming that makes manufacturing easier.[/quote]My 2013 21BHS exterior siding was made of two pieces. The seam ran horizontal. Was the seam you saw horizontal as well?
[quote timestamp="1442799430" source="/post/15399/thread" author="@djsamuel"]
Quote from: @tlbones" timestamp="1442776917" source="/post/15395/threadAh... no signs of that. There appeared to be no changes the the stucture yet. I did however notice all models of camplite had the exterior siding made from 2 pieces rather than one. There was a seam running down the middle of all the trailers. I'm assuming that makes manufacturing easier.
My 2013 21BHS exterior siding was made of two pieces. The seam ran horizontal. Was the seam you saw horizontal as well?[/quote]Yes it was horizontal, about in the middle. My 2013 does not have that, but mine's an older 2013 IIRC.
Quote from: @jasper" source="/post/15367/thread" timestamp="1442672441[quote source="/post/15366/thread" timestamp="1442670332" author="@furpod"]Pictures of the wood interior now up on LivinLite's FB page. To bad.
Actually that zebrawood style (don't know what they call it) is growing on me. I guess not as bad as they offer modern options. As long as the exterior and structure remains aluminum is ok for me. I was worried they would go the way same 99% of other RV manufacturers and offer the same cookie cutter style. [/quote]Just got back from the show as well, glad that some of y'all were able to make it!
Exterior and structure are remaining the same...so no worries there :-) If I hear of something else changing, I'll update you as soon as I know!
For those of you who are struggling to find updates on the website, I think I know why that may be. We are hiring a private firm to completely overhaul our website, and update it with our newest products, as well as some more efficient bells and whistles. As a result of that impending BIG change, the guys haven't uploaded the newest pictures of some of the products.
Also, some of these newest designs have only just made their debut on Wednesday at Hershey...and most of our staff isn't even back in town yet. :-) I will try to get a bead on when there will be more picture available. For the time being, there are some very amateur shots (taken by yours truly) that have been posted on the Livin Lite facebook. That should at least give you an idea of some of the things happening!
Thanks!
[quote source="/post/15406/thread" timestamp="1442846684" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/15367/thread" timestamp="1442672441" author="@jasper"]Actually that zebrawood style (don't know what they call it) is growing on me. I guess not as bad as they offer modern options. As long as the exterior and structure remains aluminum is ok for me. I was worried they would go the way same 99% of other RV manufacturers and offer the same cookie cutter style. [/quote]Just got back from the show as well, glad that some of y'all were able to make it!
Exterior and structure are remaining the same...so no worries there :-) If I hear of something else changing, I'll update you as soon as I know!
For those of you who are struggling to find updates on the website, I think I know why that may be. We are hiring a private firm to completely overhaul our website, and update it with our newest products, as well as some more efficient bells and whistles. As a result of that impending BIG change, the guys haven't uploaded the newest pictures of some of the products.
Also, some of these newest designs have only just made their debut on Wednesday at Hershey...and most of our staff isn't even back in town yet. :-) I will try to get a bead on when there will be more picture available. For the time being, there are some very amateur shots (taken by yours truly) that have been posted on the Livin Lite facebook. That should at least give you an idea of some of the things happening!
Thanks!
[/quote]I saw the pics posted on Facebook...it's clear you're really doing your best to keep the Camplite fans informed. I appreciate your efforts.
Will the 'old' Azdel version of the interiors with the metal latches still be available going forward?
Thank you for the updates...you're an excellent spokesperson for the company.
I see that the LL website now states "All Aluminum Structure" when you go to the Products section; they must have tweaked the current site while the new one is being developed. I am not sure how it happened but I did a Bing search last night for the LL web site and an apparently old web page popped up; of note was the statement " All Aluminum - Frame, Floor, Walls, Roof - Even Cabinetry!" Our prolonged search for the right RV for us continues; while we like the clean look of the current cabinets, we will withhold judgement until we see how the new units look.
I had a chance to visit the factory and got a good look at the new cabinet design. Here's a link to my photobucket page with several pictures. I'll comment more when I get to a computer. Hate typing too much on an I pad. Most of the interior shots are of a 21BHS and a 5th wheel camper.
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/LivinLite%20Factory/Camplite/image_zpsii4mml83.jpeg) (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/bvabob1/media/LivinLite%20Factory/Camplite/image_zpsii4mml83.jpeg.html)
Quote from: @ammobob" source="/post/15529/thread" timestamp="1443314696I had a chance to visit the factory and got a good look at the new cabinet design. Here's a link to my photobucket page with several pictures. I'll comment more when I get to a computer. Hate typing too much on an I pad. Most of the interior shots are of a 21BHS and a 5th wheel camper.
[a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/bvabob1/media/LivinLite%20Factory/image_zpsolxtfb78.jpeg.html"]
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/LivinLite%20Factory/image_zpsolxtfb78.jpeg)Thanks for the pictures. As a woodworker I can tell you there's nothing wood about it. That's a laminate or foil. Wood grain doesn't bent around corners. I wonder what the supporting material is... Probably MDF or plywood unfortunately.
[quote timestamp="1443322971" author="@tinkeringtechie" source="/post/15535/thread"][quote timestamp="1443314696" source="/post/15529/thread" author="@ammobob"]I had a chance to visit the factory and got a good look at the new cabinet design. Here's a link to my photobucket page with several pictures. I'll comment more when I get to a computer. Hate typing too much on an I pad. Most of the interior shots are of a 21BHS and a 5th wheel camper.
[/quote]Thanks for the pictures. As a woodworker I can tell you there's nothing wood about it. That's a laminate or foil. Wood grain doesn't bent around corners. I wonder what the supporting material is... Probably MDF or plywood unfortunately.[/quote][font size="3"]I would agree, something here is badly faked. When I first saw the pictures on my small iPhone I new something was amiss, but couldn't tell what. Now, on a laptop, it's obvious. As TT says, that ain't wood. I hope that's not their final product. [/font]
[p]I would choose the Azdel over this. Can't help but wonder if this is a base model with actual wood being an upgrade.
If this is laminated particle board I will loose major respect for the brand. It does appear to be MDF looking at the inside of the door.[/p][p] [/p][p]Bob, thank you for the picture[/p]
[quote source="/post/15537/thread" timestamp="1443356724" author="@whoofit"][p]I would choose the Azdel over this. Can't help but wonder if this is a base model with actual wood being an upgrade.
If this is laminated particle board I will loose major respect for the brand. It does appear to be MDF looking at the inside of the door.[/p][p] [/p][p]Bob, thank you for the picture[/p][/quote]The problem is that even if the upgrade was "actual wood" it would still most likely be a veneer. Which would normally be fine (you'd be surprised how many of your favorite furniture brands are using veneer these days) but for a trailer that touts durability that's hardly durable. A little leak over winter and your veneer would peel right off, the mdf would swell and crumble... :(
[p]It looks like they are trying to emulate Zebrawood, which is a very expensive African wood. And, the hinges they are using are way cheaper than the piano style hinges, which we are accustomed to seeing in our TT's. [/p][p]
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Don't forget the cabinet catches straight from the 80's. They hold just hard enough to frustrate you when opening, but not hard enough to keep your stuff in on a bumpy ride.
We were at the factory as well (two weeks ago) and saw some new models that were about to be shipped to a RV show in PA. There are 3 new interior cabinet styles, two of which are the laminated variety as shown in Ammobob's picture (there is a dark zebra wood and a white zebra wood), and then there is one solid wood cabinet face that is very sturdy and looks nice. It's dark brown in color and looks like it would be a good cabinet door face (not a laminate over some sort of other board like the other two zebra wood styles). Quite a departure from their old Azdel cabinets but we thought the solid wood option looked better than the old Azdel. We didn't care for the two laminate zebra wood options. They also have some new vinyl flooring available that has a tile pattern and looks pretty nice, as well as different Azdel patterns for the walls. Then they have different valance options over the windows to choose from. Putting them altogether, they look very nice (with the solid wood cabinet faces). Lastly, the windows with built in shades are the same units they have been using for years, so no worries there, and we found that they are using the heavier coupler now which is rated for something over 7,000 pounds (instead of the smaller 5,000 coupler they had been using). We are going to be ordering a 21BHS with the Sierra interior color design (solid wood faced cabinets), and are getting the option for 15" wheels as well (which is a new option). They say it will take about 8 weeks to build.
[quote source="/post/15561/thread" timestamp="1443400788" author="@gbpack"]We were at the factory as well ...... and we found that they are using the heavier coupler now which is rated for something over 7,000 pounds (instead of the smaller 5,000 coupler they had been using).
[/quote][font size="3"]So they are listening. Did they install the side bolts in the coupler??[/font]
Not that I saw while I was there and I did look for it on the Camplite models they had in prep out from. I did not search the lot.
Charliem - I did not notice if there were any side bolts in the coupler. Is that something we can have the dealer do when the trailer arrives? Is there a specific place where they need to put the bolts?
[quote source="/post/15572/thread" author="@gbpack" timestamp="1443443594"]Charliem - I did not notice if there were any side bolts in the coupler. Is that something we can have the dealer do when the trailer arrives? Is there a specific place where they need to put the bolts?[/quote][font size="3"]Yes, you could have the dealer do it. Refer to the original thread here: [a href="http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs"]http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs[/a]
Show this to the dealer so he knows exactly the problem and the fix. Maybe a better option is for you to show them exactly what to do and where to do it. I'm leary of just telling a dealer to add side bolts. Just any old bolt placed any old place won't cut it.[/font]
[quote source="/post/15571/thread" timestamp="1443442481" author="@ammobob"]Not that I saw while I was there and I did look for it on the Camplite models they had in prep out from. I did not search the lot.[/quote][font size="3"]Hmmm. Such an easy fix. But then, it would add another labor step. [/font]
[p]Here is a picture I took while at the factory of a White 21BHS with the XL package I went through while at the factory (hit the picture to go to photobucket page with additional pictures). They have definitely gone to the wood cabinet doors with what looks like laminated as standard and solid wood as an upgrade.[/p][p]
[/p][p]A piece of good news is that the have upgraded the countertops to solid surface, upgraded the sinks metal instead of plastic and improved the facets.[/p][p]
[/p][p]They have added a tile look flooring also.
[a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/bvabob1/media/LivinLite%20Factory/Camplite/image_zpsiljcsadc.jpeg.html"]
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/LivinLite%20Factory/Camplite/image_zpsiljcsadc.jpeg)
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn197/bvabob1/LivinLite%20Factory/Bearcat/image_zpszkeu75uc.jpeg)
A 1971 Winnebago wants it's cabinets back...
SO...sorry I haven't put my pictures up yet... I promise soon. The cabinets doors are not real wood, but definitely felt solid, not junky. I've been in some cheap trailers with junk cabinets...this is not the case with these. The other cabinet choice with raised panels is definitely more attractive than the zebra wood. Honestly I think both looked OK in person and I don't think it's a downgrade from the azdel/aluminum doors. I seem to be constantly adjusting various latches and it's starting to get old.
[quote source="/post/15595/thread" timestamp="1443487437" author="@tlbones"]SO...sorry I haven't put my pictures up yet... I promise soon. The cabinets doors are not real wood, but definitely felt solid, not junky. I've been in some cheap trailers with junk cabinets...this is not the case with these. The other cabinet choice with raised panels is definitely more attractive than the zebra wood. Honestly I think both looked OK in person and I don't think it's a downgrade from the azdel/aluminum doors. I seem to be constantly adjusting various latches and it's starting to get old. [/quote][p]It looks like you just upgraded the TT and TV? Didn't you have a Frontier and 16DB?[/p][p]
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I certainly hope they look better in person. I am glad they appear to only be changing the blinds, and not the windows themselves. I am a little confused on the description of the Bearcat changes, it sounds as, "if you want an old style CL interior" you may be able to get it by buying a toy hauler...?
I guess it's going to come down to what we can find/see come next season.
[quote source="/post/15605/thread" timestamp="1443530180" author="@furpod"]I certainly hope they look better in person. I am glad they appear to only be changing the blinds, and not the windows themselves. I am a little confused on the description of the Bearcat changes, it sounds as, "if you want an old style CL interior" you may be able to get it by buying a toy hauler...?
I guess it's going to come down to what we can find/see come next season. [/quote]Unless I misunderstood Paul and Shawn (and I don't think I did) the Bearcat line will have similar models as Camplite and they will not be toy haulers. In other words you will be able (in the future) to buy a Bearcat 21 BHS with aluminum cabinetry and it will not be a toy hauler. I am sure Livinlitepaul or christenm will correct me if I am wrong but this is what I was lead to believe.
Quote from: @ammobob" source="/post/15608/thread" timestamp="1443534376Quote from: @furpod" source="/post/15605/thread" timestamp="1443530180I certainly hope they look better in person. I am glad they appear to only be changing the blinds, and not the windows themselves. I am a little confused on the description of the Bearcat changes, it sounds as, "if you want an old style CL interior" you may be able to get it by buying a toy hauler...?
I guess it's going to come down to what we can find/see come next season.
Unless I misunderstood Paul and Shawn (and I don't think I did) the Bearcat line will have similar models as Camplite and they will not be toy haulers. In other words you will be able (in the future) to buy a Bearcat 21 BHS with aluminum cabinetry and it will not be a toy hauler. I am sure Livinlitepaul or christenm will correct me if I am wrong but this is what I was lead to believe.
Yes.. that's kind of how it sounded.. (although we don't want a BH.. or a toy hauler.. LOL) Interested to see/hear...
[quote source="/post/15608/thread" timestamp="1443534376" author="@ammobob"][quote source="/post/15605/thread" timestamp="1443530180" author="@furpod"]I certainly hope they look better in person. I am glad they appear to only be changing the blinds, and not the windows themselves. I am a little confused on the description of the Bearcat changes, it sounds as, "if you want an old style CL interior" you may be able to get it by buying a toy hauler...?
I guess it's going to come down to what we can find/see come next season. [/quote]Unless I misunderstood Paul and Shawn (and I don't think I did) the Bearcat line will have similar models as Camplite and they will not be toy haulers. In other words you will be able (in the future) to buy a Bearcat 21 BHS with aluminum cabinetry and it will not be a toy hauler. I am sure Livinlitepaul or christenm will correct me if I am wrong but this is what I was lead to believe.[/quote]That is correct! For those of you who are still wanting COMPLETELY aluminum interiors (cabinet doors and all) the Bearcat line is an option. We make them in pop up, travel trailers AND toy haulers actually :-)
There is a smaller selection of floorplans available in this line than our other lines, but these are a great (and very heavy duty) option for those of you who are interested in the ONLY aluminum interiors.
Thanks, Ammobob for so many great updates!
Found this dealer with Bearcat 21BHS on the lot with aluminum cabinets. They also have BC16DB, BC16DBS, and BC16TBS on hand.
http://www.americanrvcompany.net/Livin-Lite-Trailers_c_179.html
[quote timestamp="1443500080" source="/post/15599/thread" author="@whoofit"][quote timestamp="1443487437" author="@tlbones" source="/post/15595/thread"]SO...sorry I haven't put my pictures up yet... I promise soon. The cabinets doors are not real wood, but definitely felt solid, not junky. I've been in some cheap trailers with junk cabinets...this is not the case with these. The other cabinet choice with raised panels is definitely more attractive than the zebra wood. Honestly I think both looked OK in person and I don't think it's a downgrade from the azdel/aluminum doors. I seem to be constantly adjusting various latches and it's starting to get old. [/quote][p]It looks like you just upgraded the TT and TV? Didn't you have a Frontier and 16DB?[/p][p]
[/p][/quote]VERY Observant Whoofit! I was waiting for someone to notice. I pick up our new Camplite 5th wheel not this Sat, but next in southern VA.
[img style="" style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/TLBones/IMG_0380_zpstynzv5hv.jpg"]
[img style="" style="max-width:100%;" src="http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/TLBones/IMG_0379_zpsruga7ii7.jpg"]
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/TLBones/IMG_0378_zpshmwyjetj.jpg"%20style="max-width:100%;)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/TLBones/IMG_0377_zpswyzxqkqv.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/TLBones/IMG_0376_zpsk0jiygqd.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/TLBones/IMG_0375_zpsivz9dcpp.jpg)
[quote source="/post/15636/thread" timestamp="1443564894" author="@tlbones"][quote source="/post/15599/thread" timestamp="1443500080" author="@whoofit"][p]It looks like you just upgraded the TT and TV? Didn't you have a Frontier and 16DB?[/p][p]
[/p][/quote]VERY Observant Whoofit! I was waiting for someone to notice. I pick up our new Camplite 5th wheel not this Sat, but next in southern VA. [/quote][p]Congrats![/p][p]
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[quote timestamp="1443535904" author="@christianm" source="/post/15611/thread"]
Quote from: @ammobob" source="/post/15608/thread" timestamp="1443534376Unless I misunderstood Paul and Shawn (and I don't think I did) the Bearcat line will have similar models as Camplite and they will not be toy haulers. In other words you will be able (in the future) to buy a Bearcat 21 BHS with aluminum cabinetry and it will not be a toy hauler. I am sure Livinlitepaul or christenm will correct me if I am wrong but this is what I was lead to believe.
That is correct! For those of you who are still wanting COMPLETELY aluminum interiors (cabinet doors and all) the Bearcat line is an option. We make them in pop up, travel trailers AND toy haulers actually :-)
There is a smaller selection of floorplans available in this line than our other lines, but these are a great (and very heavy duty) option for those of you who are interested in the ONLY aluminum interiors.
Thanks, Ammobob for so many great updates! [/quote]Finally! Clarity! Think I'm finally catching on.