Just joined the forum and I have a question. I just picked up a 2015 21RBS, I've towed for over twenty years and this is my first aluminum frame rig and the general consensus, (on WDH) is that its best to stay away from them, now I'm not too worried, I have a Silverado 2500 diesel. But what about sway control? I don't want to drill the frame, so I was considering an Anderson WDH, they seem to work better at sway control then distributing weight. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Does anyone have long term use with a WDH?
I've towed my 16'Camplite with 2 different 1/2t trucks for 15,000 miles in all kinds of weather without sway control or weight distribution.
For a 21' Camplite and a 3/4 ton truck, I wouldn't bother with sway or WD. If it were a 1/2 ton truck and a 21' trailer, I'd try it without, then decide.
I towed my 21BHS with my Ram 1500 using no WDH and had no issues. However, I wanted sway control in case a situation came up where it would be beneficial. I opted for the Andersen hitch and it made for a more comfortable towing experience since it does attenuate bouncing very well. It wasn't bad before, but it is better with the hitch. In addition, I've towed about 6000 miles with the Andersen and have been in some high crosswind situations where other trailers were swaying all over the road, but we were nice and straight. Part of it may be the fact that the Camplite tows so well, but I think the Andersen makes a difference.
Thanks for the input, I'll try it w/o anything on my Pa. trip and see how it works. Just a question, has anyone bent or distorted their frame using a WDH?
I have the same set-up as DJSamuel, 21BHS, RAM 1500 and an Anderson WDS. I agree with his post completely. Doubt you will need any weight distribution with your 2500 but the Anderson did a great job in sway control during our recent 3000 mile trip. Camper stayed right behind the truck in heavy cross winds and more importantly when doing 75 MPH on the interstate around semi trucks. Trailer did not move. I have not seen any posts from anyone, using all styles of WDS, as it relates to frame bending or distortion. No expert here but don't think you could bend the frame with the Anderson system.
Anyway welcome aboard and good luck with the new camper.
I am rather amazed at the number of CL owners who install an Anderson WDH just for sway control. The Anderson hitch achieves sway control with a friction cone under the ball. As a result it is subject to considerable wear and the friction cone needs to be replaced periodically.
A cheaper method is with a friction sway control arm like this one: http://etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Curt/17200.html. The only downside is that it does require drilling and using the self tapping screws into the aluminum frame. But the forces on the attachment are much lower than those on a WDH torsion arm.
And to the question of bending or distorting the frame with a WDH on a CL trailer. Tinkeringtechie (I think) reported on this forum twisting the mounting bolts on his WDH when he went over a deep transition in the road.
Also while researching CLs, I talked to a guy at the LL factory, who interestingly was an ex Reese guy. He implied that one owner had bent the frame, but had done so while using a heavy torsion bar or he had cranked up the force much to far. He admitted that the light Reese WDH probably wouldn't be a problem.
David
I am still noodling on adding the Andersen, both to help with balance when the load in the trailer isn't quite right (1/2 full fresh tank seems to be the sweet spot), and because the tension actively holds the coupler on the ball.
Recall I had the trailer pop off the ball on our first time out, tech said due to the wedge on the coupler being out of adjustment. We had a friction sway (no-drill bolt-on) at the time, which got bent about 1.5" out of straight, in its heroic sacrifice to keep the trailer from plowing into the back of the tow vehicle.
I think we've heard of at least one other instance here about an out of adjustment coupler. I think those failures are a lot like the bathtub curve for electronic parts. They either fail right away from being out of adjustment at the factory, or it takes a lot of wear and tear to cause their failure. But it does happen, and it happened to us, so it is always on our mind.
I dunno how much it costs to replace the friction cone, or how long it will last, but I can't imagine that would be a significant problem unless they stop making the thing. $50 every 5 years ? meh
[quote source="/post/13743/thread" timestamp="1438092325" author="@david"]
And to the question of bending or distorting the frame with a WDH on a CL trailer. Tinkeringtechie (I think) reported on this forum twisting the mounting bolts on his WDH when he went over a deep transition in the road.
Also while researching CLs, I talked to a guy at the LL factory, who interestingly was an ex Reese guy. He implied that one owner had bent the frame, but had done so while using a heavy torsion bar or he had cranked up the force much to far. He admitted that the light Reese WDH probably wouldn't be a problem.
David
[/quote][font size="3"]David,
I think TT was referring to shearing and bending of bolts on the L-Bracket of his E2 WDH, not any frame distortion. The L-brackets are clamp on with no frame drilling. That is a weak spot on the E2 and apparently is improved with their Equalizer WDH. His coupler did bend, but that's the previously identified problem. Without more details from the ex-Reese guy I don't know how to credit his report.
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Charlie:
I should have been clearer. TT's frame did not bend, just the bolts holding the L-bracket twisted and bent.
The factory ex-Reese guy will never talk on the record. They did propose building a 21' CL with the deeper frame of the 28 for about $500 extra to alleviate my concerns, but welding doubler plates after purchase would have been cheaper.
Fortunately no WDH user on this forum has reported frame bending, maybe because most of them are Andersons which don't provide much weight transfer, or maybe bending is a red herring.
David
Quote from: @pinstriper" source="/post/13744/thread" timestamp="1438093476I dunno how much it costs to replace the friction cone, or how long it will last, but I can't imagine that would be a significant problem unless they stop making the thing. $50 every 5 years ? meh
It costs nothing... they'll replace it for free. They ought to considering the price of the hitch and that it's probably a $1 part. By the way... the Andersen guys are really easy to work with. When I ordered my hitch it was supposed be in stock but there was a mixup with the dealer and I believe the sales director from Andersen called me directly to straighten it out and drop ship it for me.
[quote timestamp="1438092325" source="/post/13743/thread" author="@david"]A cheaper method is with a friction sway control arm like this one: http://etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Curt/17200.html. The only downside is that it does require drilling and using the self tapping screws into the aluminum frame. But the forces on the attachment are much lower than those on a WDH torsion arm.
[/quote]Sway control arms have friction surfaces that are non-replaceable and they also wear out. So instead of getting a free plastic cone from Andersen once in a blue moon, you have to buy a whole new arm.
Quote from: @david" timestamp="1438095327" source="/post/13746/thread
The factory ex-Reese guy will never talk on the record. They did propose building a 21' CL with the deeper frame of the 28 for about $500 extra to alleviate my concerns, but welding doubler plates after purchase would have been cheaper.
[font size="3"]David,
Not sure about this, but will the heat of welding on the doubler weaken and/or change the temper the frame members, thereby creating failure prone spots on the frame? It would depend on where the new welds were, but the doubler ends nearest the front of the camper box might be of concern.
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Charlie:
Well, I never did this because I purchased a 16BS that works fine for us. So the following is pure theoretical musings:
The force on the frame for a torsion bar WDH is directly downward from the attachment point. So the stress is highest there and reduces as you go fore and aft. I planned to remove the hitch and carry the doublers forward to the point of the A-frame so the forward stress would also be carried by the steel hitch. I probably would have welded a gusset or diagonal at the front of the box to help with loads aft.
I believe but hey I am no metallurgist, that structural aluminum has no temper. I would have used 1/8" aluminum doublers on both sides of the frame with a bead of weldment top and bottom. That would nearly double its stress carrying capability.
If someone wants to be a guinea pig, I will be glad to offer my unprofessional advice, but not me ;-).
David
[quote timestamp="1438100603" author="@david" source="/post/13752/thread"]I planned to remove the hitch and carry the doublers forward to the point of the A-frame so the forward stress would also be carried by the steel hitch. I probably would have welded a gusset or diagonal at the front of the box to help with loads aft.
I believe but hey I am no metallurgist, that structural aluminum has no temper. I would have used 1/8" aluminum doublers on both sides of the frame with a bead of weldment top and bottom. That would nearly double its stress carrying capability.
[/quote][font size="3"]OK. Sounds like you had a plan. I also passed on the metallurgy degree, but I recalled that it is a problem with steel. I also know aluminum usually has a temper, e.g., T5 or T6, but it may not apply to the tubing LL uses. I think LL may be covering their butts with the non-recommendation (read lawyers). Certainly drilling 1/2" holes near the top or bottom of the frame members would be problematical. Issue closed. 8-)[/font]
Your comments are starting to concern me. I have Camplite 21-BHS. I have the E2 WDH that also has anti-sway, trunnion bars that do not need to be removed when I back up the trailer. The techs at the dealer set it up for a light weight. I have not changed their settings.
The last time I weighed, the trailer was 4200 lbs. with the fresh water tank half full. Jeep Grand Cherokee towing capacity = 6,500 lbs. I check the coupler before every trip, whether it is on the way out or on the way home. Approximately 3,200 miles on it so far. So far, all is good.
I have towed the trailer under different sorts of conditions with my husband following me, driving our pickup (Ford Ranger, towing capacity 3,000 lbs). I wanted him to check for swaying. No problems. I have not felt any sway towing. It feels really solid. I really don't wish to remove this, or go to a different setup. But I am concerned.
[quote source="/post/13756/thread" timestamp="1438115790" author="@leslie"]Your comments are starting to concern me. I have Camplite 21-BHS. I have the E2 WDH that also has anti-sway, trunnion bars that do not need to be removed when I back up the trailer. The techs at the dealer set it up for a light weight. I have not changed their settings.
The last time I weighed, the trailer was 4200 lbs. with the fresh water tank half full. Jeep Grand Cherokee towing capacity = 6,500 lbs. I check the coupler before every trip, whether it is on the way out or on the way home. Approximately 3,200 miles on it so far. So far, all is good.
I have towed the trailer under different sorts of conditions with my husband following me, driving our pickup (Ford Ranger, towing capacity 3,000 lbs). I wanted him to check for swaying. No problems. I have not felt any sway towing. It feels really solid. I really don't wish to remove this, or go to a different setup. But I am concerned.[/quote]If it's working well then I wouldn't change a thing. Just check the coupler every trip for signs of bending. Charlie's post on the subject shows some good pictures of where it starts. Also keep an eye on those L-brackets to make sure they're not shifting out of alignment. Even in my catastrophe everything survived except the coupler and the brackets.
[p][font size="4"]We have a 2016 21BHS and tow with a 2014 f150,4x4,5.0L with tow[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]package. When we purchased the TT I was more then willing to spring for a[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]weight distributing hitch with sway control. The dealer was very confident[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]that this TT,TV combination would be fine without help, but he did include[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]friction sway control as part of the deal no charge. I thought this odd [/font][font size="4"]because [/font][/p][p][font size="4"]I would [/font][font size="4"]have bought the WDH from him. My experience in the past has [/font][/p][p][font size="4"]generally been [/font][font size="4"]that salespeople p[/font][font size="4"]ush for more $$. I certainly wasn't going to [/font][/p][p][font size="4"]argue with his advice. So far the trailer has been as easy to pull as he said. We are[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]planning a Michigan to Florida trip in November. I'm confident that my knuckles[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]will stay pink and my wife and I will still be speaking to each other when we get[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]there. 8-)[/font][/p][p][font size="4"]
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I don't see how anyone with a half ton truck can get away without WDH with the LivinLite toy haulers. The floor plan puts literally everything in front of the axles except for the fresh water tank which is between the axles. With just full propane tanks and a battery, our tongue weight is right at the 500 lb limit of our tow vehicle, and it goes up from there as we add food, water, etc. The bikes load in the garage pretty much right over the axles, so they don't have a big impact on tongue weight, but by the time we are fully loaded up, we're at about 5400 lbs trailer weight and 650 lbs tongue weight. Well over our 500 lb limit without a WDH.
[font size="3"]Geezer,
You're in my "Don't need it, but you'll want it" group. Technically your truck will handle the CL without WDH or sway, but some WDH will greatly smooth out the porpoising and improve your ride. Most people prefer some sway control though many report no problem without.
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[quote source="/post/13757/thread" author="@tinkeringtechie" timestamp="1438116761"]If it's working well then I wouldn't change a thing. Just check the coupler every trip for signs of bending. Charlie's post on the subject shows some good pictures of where it starts. Also keep an eye on those L-brackets to make sure they're not shifting out of alignment. Even in my catastrophe everything survived except the coupler and the brackets.[/quote][font size="3"]Agreed. Just make sure the L-Bracket bolts stay tight.[/font]
Leslie:
There is some risk using a WDH on a Camplite, but minimal I think. No one has reported frame bending so far on this forum.
First realize that LL will never approve or recommend a WDH for their trailers. They must have gotten burned sometime in the past and they decided not to approve them. But that doesn't mean they can't be used safely.
If you have a trunion bar type WDH like the E2, then make sure that you use the lightest trunion bar available, 600 lb tongue weight or less. And don't crank them up too tight. I think taking an inch out of rear end TV sag is enough.
The risk is in going over a sharp driveway transition, like pulling in to a steep driveway from a high crowned road. That sharp transition causes the TV and the trailer to make a sharp V which pulls down hard on the attachment point which puts maximum stress on the frame. Take these very slowly to minimize the forces.
David
Hi David - 600 lb tongue weight trunnion bars is what I have. I plan to travel light in terms of what I have in the Jeep, as well as in the camper.
One more comment about a WDH. I have the Andersen and one of the reasons I like to use it is because it gives me piece of mind that the trailer will not pop off the ball when running down the HW. Never say never but when the hitch is tight to 7 or 8 threads, the hitch is so secure to the ball that I do not think it can possibly pop off. I have read on this forum of one person (possible more) where his trailer popped off the ball! I think the WDH helps with sway control and I think helps on every overpass when one experiences the huge dips or bumps (there should be a law against rough overpass transitions) when going over overpasses. My language gets ugly on occasion when crossing some overpasses. But I do feel somewhat comfortable due to the hitch being tightly attached to the ball via the WDH.
[quote source="/post/13744/thread" timestamp="1438093476" author="@pinstriper"]
I dunno how much it costs to replace the friction cone, or how long it will last, but I can't imagine that would be a significant problem unless they stop making the thing. $50 every 5 years ? meh
[/quote]As stated by others, the replacement is free. I have about 6,000 miles on my Andersen and am nowhere near ready to replace it. Some here have replaced their cones due to noise, but the replacements were sent free and the swap wasn't difficult.
I didn't purchase the Andersen strictly for sway control but also to dampen bouncing, which it does very well. It just provides an overall solid feel to towing, one that to me is well worth the cost.
if your th is a 2500 you really have no need for a wdh or sway control. with a max tongue weight of 1500 lbs the need for weight distribution is out of the window and as for sway control (and this seems to be contrary to what most on this forum believe), you can simply load the trailer correctly so the tongue height is correct and the tongue weight is 10-15% of the trailer weight.
additionally, depending on the year of your th...it probably has automatic tsc built in (i believe 2010 or 2011 was the first year for it)
and as for using a wdh to reduce porpoising...you will have less that 500lbs of tongue weight and a max rating of 1500lbs of tongue weight for the truck (it is a 3/4 ton truck afterall)...you would need to park a sumo wrestler on the hitch to get it to porpoise
i am towing a vrv with about 200 extra pounds on the tongue and have never had an issue with sway, loaded or not, at any speed, even in very high cross winds (i did pick it up wyoming afterall)
save the $...skip the wd hitch
I've towed for many years, I remember the first trailer I purchased, I didn't want a WDH, (at least not for what they wanted) and drove off the lot with the RV, I had a Fleetwood Ultra Lite and towed it with a 4x4 half ton Dakota, It was bouncy and the sway was noticeable. I've had a sway bar and WDH on every rig after that. Now I'm towing my 21RBS with a 2500 Silverado 4x4 diesel, I don't see the need for a WDH, but its just my opinion, a sway bar is a must for any TV / RV set up, I know not everyone will agree but in my experience it makes a more stable ride.
Has anyone had any experience with the "ProPride" WDH, it looks interesting, but over complicated, (too many moving parts).
Quote from: @pjcd" source="/post/14023/thread" timestamp="1438863175Has anyone had any experience with the "ProPride" WDH, it looks interesting, but over complicated, (too many moving parts).
The propride/hensley are supposed to be the best WDH available, but have a price tag to match. It looks like the propride just bolts on, so I don't see why it wouldn't work with the aluminum frame. The price is just out of this world.
I looked at it, but passed on it and bought a Anderson WDH. I'm going to try it out next month, with out it on the way and with it on the way back from PA.
I've often wondered why TT manufacturers, for the most part, do not install shock absorbers on their product. Wouldn't this reduce the need for sway control? For that matter, it would extend the service life of everything in the TT. I guess
that Quality is job #2.
At the end of our 8000 mile trip this year the cone on our Andersen became very noisy when making low speed turns, as is typical while positioning at camp sites. Andersen sent us a new one for free on a single phone call. Swapping it out was fairly simple and the original cone was still functional, so barring the noise, it would have kept doing it's job for a long long time. In fact, I don't think the cone will ever actually "fail". I chose Andersen for 2 reasons - weight and design. It only weighs 60lbs and by design all of its WD forces are applied horizontally in line with the TV, which I felt would address the coupler concern. I've towed with and without the hitch with my F150 and it's a much smoother, more solid and confident experience with the Andersen. But it's good to know I don't have to use it, should something break.
[quote source="/post/14660/thread" timestamp="1440767598" author="@surfsup"]I've towed with and without the hitch with my F150 and it's a much smoother, more solid and confident experience with the Andersen. But it's good to know I don't have to use it, should something break.
[/quote][font size="3"]You make my point that, even with a full sized truck, you may not need it, but you'll want it. Thank you. [/font]
We will be getting an Anderson WDH when we receive the CL 21BHS that we are about to order. Is there a certain model of Anderson WDH that we should ask for or make certain they install?
Andersen makes several models of their "No Sway-No Bounce" WDH. The dealer will need to order for the correct ball size, the correct ball drop/rise, and the correct bracket size for your TV/trailer combo. That's all very easy and only done once on set up. They make a universal bracket with lots of adjustment and the ball mount has several adjustment holes too. I had to notch the propane tank holder plastic about an inch to accommodate the brackets. I also had to add 2 links on both sides to make the chains long enough. After initial installation it's very easy to use. We've got about 1200 miles on ours and are still smiling at the smooth ride (we didn't need the WDH feature, just the bounce/sway control).
[quote source="/post/14672/thread" author="@gbpack" timestamp="1440796764"]We will be getting an Anderson WDH when we receive the CL 21BHS that we are about to order. Is there a certain model of Anderson WDH that we should ask for or make certain they install? [/quote]I think you can get a way with the 3324. 4" inch drop/rise and 2" ball. The 3350 model is for the 2 5/16" ball with 4" drop/rise. Based on the 21BHS and your Jeep the 3324 will work unless you change (or have it changed) out the coupler to 2 5/16" ball.
If you buy it and plan on installing yourself get some extra links so you don't have to move your propane tanks. I added a D link and 3 links of chain to each side of mine.
If you are buying it from your dealer they will know which one you need and install it.
Thanks guys. We will be purchasing the Anderson WDH/sway control from the dealer and have them install it. Appreciate your responses and advice. Will let you know how it all goes, but it will probably be a couple months from now!
We are close to receiving delivery on our CL 21BHS and I need to order the Andersen WDH myself because our dealer doesn't carry it. The dealer will install it but it will be cheaper for me to buy it online than for hi to order it (and mark up the cost). I believe that our trailer will be equipped with the larger coupler, which will require a 2-5/16" ball. According to Ammobob, we should then order the Andersen 3350. Is that correct? Will the frame brackets that come with the 3350 be the right size for the frame on our 21BHS? Lastly, can someone please tell me the size of the frame on the 21BHS? Thanks!
[quote source="/post/16612/thread" timestamp="1447456136" author="@gbpack"]We are close to receiving delivery on our CL 21BHS and I need to order the Andersen WDH myself because our dealer doesn't carry it. The dealer will install it but it will be cheaper for me to buy it online than for hi to order it (and mark up the cost). I believe that our trailer will be equipped with the larger coupler, which will require a 2-5/16" ball. According to Ammobob, we should then order the Andersen 3350. Is that correct? Will the frame brackets that come with the 3350 be the right size for the frame on our 21BHS? Lastly, can someone please tell me the size of the frame on the 21BHS? Thanks![/quote]I used the 3350 with my 21BHS, BUT it originally came with a 2" ball and I swapped out the coupler. You should verify that your 21BHS is coming with a 2 5/16" ball before ordering it. I believe the frame is 4" tall, which works well with that WDH.