Hello,
I've been searching for decent video reviews on these and coming up short. I'd like to hear from folks who spend a good amount of time in a 20' or 24' toy hauler. Moving out to Fort Irwin and I'd like to stay in the RV Park on post to avoid a 60+ mile commute. A little background information, I've spent years living in small areas and austere environments so the size of the dwelling wouldn't be an issue. My main concern is how living in an aluminum box in the desert would be, and is it something that I could leave my dog in with the AC on for 40 hours a week?
If I go with one I'd prefer the 8.5x20' with a single fold out bed. Would this provide room for a roller tool chest, a dirt bike, and a street bike? I also have a lot of climbing gear and hiking packs which I'd like to mount to the walls but some people have expressed concern in an earlier thread about drilling through the aluminum. Being new to travel trailers would the maintenance be a constant project or is it very minimal? I do not want to constantly be working on it and most of the used travel trailers I've looked at the interior is all swollen from water/frost damage so the aluminum is very appealing.
Just to recap;
1) Could you live 365 days a year in a 20' or 24' vrv toy hauler?
2) Can my dog be comfortable in it with the AC running for eight hours a day in the desert?
3) Would a 20' fit two bikes and a large tool chest?
4) How hard is wall mounting hooks to support 15lb loads?
5) What type of regular maintenance is needed for these?
Thanks in advance for any comments or answers!
[quote timestamp="1434487649" author="@blandino" source="/post/12391/thread"]Hello,
I've been searching for decent video reviews on these and coming up short. I'd like to hear from folks who spend a good amount of time in a 20' or 24' toy hauler. Moving out to Fort Irwin and I'd like to stay in the RV Park on post to avoid a 60+ mile commute. A little background information, I've spent years living in small areas and austere environments so the size of the dwelling wouldn't be an issue. My main concern is how living in an aluminum box in the desert would be, and is it something that I could leave my dog in with the AC on for 40 hours a week?
If I go with one I'd prefer the 8.5x20' with a single fold out bed. Would this provide room for a roller tool chest, a dirt bike, and a street bike? I also have a lot of climbing gear and hiking packs which I'd like to mount to the walls but some people have expressed concern in an earlier thread about drilling through the aluminum. Being new to travel trailers would the maintenance be a constant project or is it very minimal? I do not want to constantly be working on it and most of the used travel trailers I've looked at the interior is all swollen from water/frost damage so the aluminum is very appealing.
Just to recap;
1) Could you live 365 days a year in a 20' or 24' vrv toy hauler? [font color="#f8071b"]NO! The Owners Manual makes this clear. No RV product including LL, hauler or otherwise, is designed to live in it beyond weeks.[/font]
2) Can my dog be comfortable in it with the AC running for eight hours a day in the desert? [font color="#f8071b"]Not no....BUT HECK NO!!!! Leave your dog out of this situation, please! A/C failures abound.[/font]
3) Would a 20' fit two bikes and a large tool chest? [font color="#f8071b"]Depending on sizes and VRV configuration, probably.[/font]
4) How hard is wall mounting hooks to support 15lb loads? [font color="#f8071b"]Others on this proboard can speak to this with greater knowledge. Also, see past threads on the topic.
[/font]
5) What type of regular maintenance is needed for these? [font color="#f8071b"]Others on this proboard can speak to this with greater knowledge. Also, see past threads on the topic.
[/font]
Thanks in advance for any comments or answers! [font color="#f8071b"]You are welcome. We love our 8.5X26' Axxess toy hauler. But we love our dogs more and would no more consider leaving them in the our LL in Florida's heat (or even in direct sun during milder temps!) for any length of time, than we would consider leaving our children alone in one when they were younger. Things go wrong regularly with all RVs. Your dog deserves better. Strong words; sorry now so you won't be sorry later.
Thank you for your service to our Nation! We applaud you, Sir![/font]
[/quote]
[quote source="/post/12391/thread" author="@blandino" timestamp="1434487649"]Hello,
I've been searching for decent video reviews on these and coming up short. I'd like to hear from folks who spend a good amount of time in a 20' or 24' toy hauler. Moving out to Fort Irwin and I'd like to stay in the RV Park on post to avoid a 60+ mile commute. A little background information, I've spent years living in small areas and austere environments so the size of the dwelling wouldn't be an issue. My main concern is how living in an aluminum box in the desert would be, and is it something that I could leave my dog in with the AC on for 40 hours a week?
If I go with one I'd prefer the 8.5x20' with a single fold out bed. Would this provide room for a roller tool chest, a dirt bike, and a street bike? I also have a lot of climbing gear and hiking packs which I'd like to mount to the walls but some people have expressed concern in an earlier thread about drilling through the aluminum. Being new to travel trailers would the maintenance be a constant project or is it very minimal? I do not want to constantly be working on it and most of the used travel trailers I've looked at the interior is all swollen from water/frost damage so the aluminum is very appealing.
Just to recap;
1) Could you live 365 days a year in a 20' or 24' vrv toy hauler?
2) Can my dog be comfortable in it with the AC running for eight hours a day in the desert?
3) Would a 20' fit two bikes and a large tool chest?
4) How hard is wall mounting hooks to support 15lb loads?
5) What type of regular maintenance is needed for these?
Thanks in advance for any comments or answers!
[/quote]
Our Bearcat BC7x20 basically is a VRV 7x20 with a different decal package and the offroad package (AT tread tires and a small lift kit). So...
1. One to two people with modest space requirements, sure as long as you are in a climate where it doesn't go much below 32 degrees at night (pipe freezing will be an issue in colder climates). My wife and I plan to take extended trips in ours once we retire (still a ways out for us though), and think we could be just fine for a couple of months at a time.
2. Haven't used my AC yet, so can't answer this one.
3. Depends on the bikes. We fit two dual sports in, with room left over to comfortably walk around them. We've added an extra storage cabinet just behind the side door that probably occupies about the same footprint as a tool chest (it is about 2 ft deep, 3 ft wide and 3 ft tall).
4. Easy on the exterior walls. A stud finder will find the aluminum framing for you, and that will give you the support you need.
5. Check the tire pressure, tread wear and wheel lug torque before each trip, check the water level in the battery once a month, shoot some grease in the wheel bearings once a year. If in a cold climate, winterize in the fall and de-winterize in the spring. Wash it when it gets dirty. That's about it!
[p]Your dog could enlist here: [a href="http://www.sgtfuzzbuddy.com/"]http://www.sgtfuzzbuddy.com/[/a][/p][p]
[/p][p]12 bucks a day is likely less than fuel for a 120mi/day round trip commute.[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/12396/thread" timestamp="1434492216" author="@whoofit"]Your dog could enlist here: http://www.sgtfuzzbuddy.com/
[/quote]Excellent call! [font size="5"]Roof roof Rooofit![/font]
Quote from: @gwbushhog" timestamp="1434492688" source="/post/12397/threadQuote from: @whoofit" timestamp="1434492216" source="/post/12396/threadYour dog could enlist here: http://www.sgtfuzzbuddy.com/
Excellent call! [font size="5"]Roof roof Rooofit![/font]
[p]Heh heh heh!.. Scooby, is that you?[/p][p]
[/p][p]I'm not the one paying the bill either though, but if you stack-up the fuel costs and A/C-Heating costs (these trailers aren't all that well insulated) and the bonus of the dog getting some attention all day long $12/day seems like a good deal to me. The dog won't bake if the A/C goes to pot either.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I'd say the dog is the biggest challenge here.
[/p]
Thanks for the honest input and the concern for my canine friend. The AC going out is a good point and not something I am not very familiar with since I do not use air conditioning. How would this be any different from keeping her in an apartment if the AC fails, and what is the likelihood of it happening? We've hiked the John Muir Trail, and the Appalachian Trail (2200 miles), so she is not a typical pampered house dog. I'm not expecting the trailer to resemble an ice chest, just not be at dangerous temps (100+). If that isn't an option with a travel trailer she might just be sitting this one out.
In regards to not being able to live in a travel trailer year round what is the reason given in the manual for it? I've lived in a shipping container with a poncho for a door, I can't see why this isn't possible lol. Is it just that the structure and the appliances are not meant for that heavy of use and they will fail?
Appreciate everyone bringing up the points you have and finding the doggy day care. If you have anything else that I'm overlooking or valid points to bring up please share them.
[p]I'd say count on temps from 30F - 106F year round. based on my research of last year that can be found here: http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBYS/2014/1/1/CustomHistory.html?dayend=2&monthend=6&yearend=2015&req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=
It's 100F there right now. I'd expect 115F in the trailer easy if the A/C goes out (or the power goes out). A backup A/C might do it for you but it's not practical in my opinion. Just like closing up the shipping container and leaving it in the sun without being there to open it.
On the flip side the winters are pretty mild. At 30F some skirting around the trailer would suffice. Heat the area only on the few coldest nights if at all. Our heater worked well camping at 6F this winter. I suspect yours would work equally well.
I think you could live for extended periods in that trailer without trouble on city water, sewer and electric. My dad owned a mobile home/modular home business forever and these trailers are built far superior to those, especially the LivinLite stuff. I lived in a mobile home growing up. It was a 1956 and this was in the 70's and 80's. You'll only have the typical road mileage stuff to really worry about. Besides fitting your gear and appliances crapping out eventually in one way or another.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Gotta say I'm kind of jealous of this adventure of yours. Sounds pretty trick.
[/p]
[quote source="/post/12401/thread" timestamp="1434495718" author="@blandino"]The AC going out is a good point and not something I am not very familiar with since I do not use air conditioning. How would this be any different from keeping her in an apartment if the AC fails, and what is the likelihood of it happening?
[/quote]Think about how hot a car can get relative to a home in the same environment. The car will get hot enough to melt your furry friend whereas the home with its significantly better insulation also gets hot but nowhere near as hot and Fido doesn't melt. An exposed trailer can get really hot -- just like a car in a Walmart parking lot. Trailers do have insulation but it ain't much. As for the likelihood of the A/C failing -- it is 100% likely it will fail eventually. I can't say when that will happen but it will happen.
Is it possible to live in your trailer? Certainly it is. I can even imagine myself doing it in my small but mighty Camplite 11FDB. Relative to it, a 20-foot toy hauler would be livin' large!
my answers are based on my 8.5x18 vrv
[quote source="/post/12391/thread" author="@blandino" timestamp="1434487649"]
Just to recap;
1) Could you live 365 days a year in a 20' or 24' vrv toy hauler? nope. [font color="#e63219"]i have spent a week at a time alone boondocking and it was ok, but wouldnt want to spend a year in it based on a couple week long stints. the manual does state that it wasnt designed for permanent living, but mainly just states that it will cause increased wear and higher probability of condensation. both issues could be handled[/font]
2) Can my dog be comfortable in it with the AC running for eight hours a day in the desert? gotta agree with others. [font color="#e63219"]they are basically a toaster without the ac running. we live in a cooler climate so ac isnt an issue, but in a warm location the vrv is going to heat up quick...just no real insulation[/font]
3) Would a 20' fit two bikes and a large tool chest? [font color="#e63219"]yes, rather easily, but the tool chest is going to get in the way because there is no real good place to put it except maybe at the back by the ramp and besides the couch[/font]
4) How hard is wall mounting hooks to support 15lb loads? [font color="#e63219"]not hard at all. all of the framing is rectangular and square aluminum tube, so it is as simple as locating the framing and screwing into it. i have hung plenty on the walls and havent had an issue yet. i have put up threads full of mods that show some of the additions to the walls i have completed[/font]
5) What type of regular maintenance is needed for these? same as for any camper. w[font color="#e63219"]heel bearings, flush the tanks, winterize if it is going to drop below 35 for an extended period, torque wheels, etc. here is a link to the 2011 manual (couldnt find a newer one online) --> http://www.livinlite.com/pdf/service/vrv2011OwnersManual.pdf [/font]
Thanks in advance for any comments or answers!
[/quote]
This is really great information. I was discussing a doggy door and a small fence so if it gets hot inside she can just step outside and lay under the awning. Is this something that'd be viable with the side door?
Some form of doggy door could likely be installed but I think it would take a creative approach. I doubt it would work to put it in the door unless you made some sort of cover that could go over it's exterior side when towing the trailer. Installing in the door might actually be one of the easiest locations to cut a structurally-sound hole provided the doggy door isn't large. The trailer doors are plywood or osb board covered in aluminum on the exterior and a laminate on the interior so cutting a hole should be easy. Would the dog be able to navigate the step + the doggy door? Might be hard for a weiner dog. :D
When I ordered my trailer I found the factory to be very reluctant to frame & cut any new openings in the trailer body. (They talked me out of it except for a hatch from the cassette toilet's removable tank). They noted that the frames are engineered and they don't want to stray from the fabrication shop drawings without having re-engineering done & a new shop drawing produced. If re-engineering is needed, a factory-installed doggy door opening in the trailer body might be expensive. How big is the dog?
A couple of ideas related to the dog, which I think would be the biggest challenge to overcome in your situation...
1) A temperature sensor with email/txt alert capability could keep you informed of any abnormal temperature issues when you're away from the trailer. Something like this would work http://www.amazon.com/Temperature-lert-TM-WIFI220-WiFi-Edition/dp/B002YKU2Q6 as long as you have continuous power and WIFI available at the trailer.
2) Find someone reliable who is willing to check on the dog once or twice a day, and/or would be available to get the dog out of the trailer in the event of an A/C failure alarm.
With both of those failsafes in place, I would be comfortable with leaving my dog "home" in a trailer. I would actually be more worried about using a doggie door and outdoor area then the possibility of A/C failure, since the possibility of another animal coming in through the door or the dog escaping the fenced-in area seem like more serious issues.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
Graham
[quote source="/post/12423/thread" timestamp="1434529610" author="@peislander"]Some form of doggy door could likely be installed but I think it would take a creative approach. I doubt it would work to put it in the door unless you made some sort of cover that could go over it's exterior side when towing the trailer. Installing in the door might actually be one of the easiest locations to cut a structurally-sound hole provided the doggy door isn't large. The trailer doors are plywood or osb board covered in aluminum on the exterior and a laminate on the interior so cutting a hole should be easy. Would the dog be able to navigate the step + the doggy door? Might be hard for a weiner dog. :D [font color="#e6192a"]Hey, hey.....our hairy wiener resembles that remark! :P
[/font]
When I ordered my trailer I found the factory to be very reluctant to frame & cut any new openings in the trailer body. (They talked me out of it except for a hatch from the cassette toilet's removable tank). They noted that the frames are engineered and they don't want to stray from the fabrication shop drawings without having re-engineering done & a new shop drawing produced. If re-engineering is needed, a factory-installed doggy door opening in the trailer body might be expensive. How big is the dog?[/quote]
"But we love our dogs more and would no more consider leaving them in the our LL in Florida's heat (or even in direct sun during milder temps!) for any length of time, than we would consider leaving our children alone in one when they were younger. Things go wrong regularly with all RVs. Your dog deserves better. Strong words; sorry now so you won't be sorry later."
This is the advice to heed! RVs (and maybe RV parks) are notoriously unreliable; nothing like the quality of a home or car. Desert+RV+dog alone for 40 hours per week is an awful idea. Temperatures would very quickly soar to lethal levels in a closed trailer in the desert.
I have another concern about doggy doors that is perhaps worth mentioning. Creatures other than your beloved dog can also use the doggy door. In a suburban home setting this is only a modest risk whereas in the wilder places many of us like to camp it could be an issue. What has me thinking about this is a camping experience last year. We were in a National Park sitting out at our evening campfire. On our Camplite 11FDB the cabin door is on the back and it was not visible from the firepit area where we & our Westie sat absorbed in primal awe of the dancing flames and their friends the glowing embers. I got up to go into the trailer for a snack. As I rounded the corner of the trailer headed for the dark door area I was startled by a large raccoon that was sitting on the step. He was window shopping through the screen door! He blasted into the night in warp drive as I nearly shit my pants. It got me thinking (ouch) -- if our little dog (that was sitting maybe 18-feet away) had turned that corner we might not have our little white furry friend anymore. The raccoon also could have easily have gotten into the trailer --- and I can imagine how much more likely creatures can get in if there's a doggy door.
(http://s23.postimg.org/t7jfyqtkb/raccoon.jpg)
And you know, having lived for years in the desert of far west Texas, imagine the danger of rattlers and coyotes who are looking for shade, water and food left for poor Fido. Bad idea!
Leave him home for this tour of duty! Heck, we'll take care of him 'til you get out.
From about now till the beginning of october you won't need an over to cook anything at Fort Irwin. I would say some sort of shade sail flown over the whole trailer would help but still...it's dang hot there,