The drain in our shower is installed at the high point of the shower base pan so the shower floor retains about a 1/4 inch of water. It's messy sopping up the remaining water to clean out the shower. In addition, the shower pan is flexing against whatever is under there, since it's not installed tightly to the underlayment. Does anyone know what's under the shower floor and/or had their shower drain out? I'm going to explore possibilities for getting the drain to drain. It may be just an issue of the drain pipe pushed up too far (or not down far enough). But before I get out the Sawzall, sledge hammer, and impact wrench, I thought I'd ask what's down there.
The door to another dimension, I call it the headache dimension.
No idea here since I dont have a 16TBS. Good luck........
Regarding the substrate under the shower floor:
In early July 2012 when I visited the Livin' Lite factory I observed several unfinished trailers & truck campers under construction. I observed & photographed the use of plywood as a support panel under a shower floor. I attach below the picture I took of what I saw. You'll note that a void space is framed with aluminum tubing, sheathed in relatively thin plywood, and then the wet bath's plastic "shower" pan with a expanded polystyrene insulation underlay is placed on top. I commented on the use of plywood and was told they were phasing its use out. In support of that statement a nearby stack of pre-machined polycarbonate panels were pointed out to me as having recently arrived and that would be used in subsequent rv fabrication. What I saw looked to be pieces of black industrial-grade lexan (or generic polycarbonate plastic) that had been precut to size and had pre-drilled fastening holes and a pre-cut shower drain hole. I was also told that they had not had any rot issues with that use of plywood but were changing to the plastic in keeping with their general approach to keep wood out of the trailers as much as possible.
(http://s15.postimg.org/jqbnypvkb/IMG_1485.jpg)So in trailers or truck campers manufactured a little after the start of the 2013 model year it is likely your shower or wet bath incorporates a plastic subfloor. Polycarbonate sheeting is extremely strong -- likely stronger than the plywood that appears in the photo. The 'flexing' that Merlin notes seems to me to more likely relate to the layer of foam insulation that is under the pan. I know from specifying similar foam to insulate flat roofs that the foam can take the compressive loads but that it can indeed feel 'spongy' when walked upon. That spongy quality is more of an aesthetic thing than a technical issue. The spongy quality would no doubt be increased if you wear high heels. Merlin what kind of shoes do you wear? ::)
Thanks. That photo is exactly what I needed. On further investigation of the issue in our shower, it seems the drain pipe is too long and is pushing up the plastic shower pan along with the metal drain strainer. I removed the strainer and can see the pipe is holding the pan up off the underlayment. That's obviously why all the water doesn't run out the drain. Thanks to the photo, I can see why our shower floor is flexing so much; it's not tight against the expanded polystyrene on the drain end. I'm guessing sloppy installation in our unit left the drain pipe too long. I'll see if I can get at it enough from the top to cut off the pipe about 3/8 inch to bring the shower pan back down to the underlayment. The pipe is actually an elbow, leading to the waterless trap and into the grey tank. In response to the question of shoes in the shower, I've been wearing flats, but plan to go with my stilettos now in hopes of creating additional drain holes in the shower floor.
Merlin,
Isn't your unit still under warranty? We also noticed that we have water that accumulates in the front right corner, but squeegy it out when finished showering. We also noticed the flexing in the showerpan and were wondering what caused it. We had an issue with one corner not being sealed correctly and were thinking that water was going behind and under the shower. With the picture, I dont't think that we should have a problem unless there was plywood underneath our showerpan. Thank you PEIslander for the pic!!
Unless we had a very tiny leaks I think we'd likely notice water creeping out from under the edge of the walls or dripping on the ground. Also, It isn't great but at least they used plywood. Airstreams and almost every other trailer uses OSB (chipboard) because it is cheaper. OSB can be even more susceptible to water damage.
Awareness of possible wood highlights the importance of the seal at the drain.
[quote source="/post/12035/thread" timestamp="1433689299" author="@livinthegoodlife"]Merlin,
Isn't your unit still under warranty? We also noticed that we have water that accumulates in the front right corner, but squeegy it out when finished showering. We also noticed the flexing in the showerpan and were wondering what caused it. We had an issue with one corner not being sealed correctly and were thinking that water was going behind and under the shower. With the picture, I dont't think that we should have a problem unless there was plywood underneath our showerpan. Thank you PEIslander for the pic!![/quote]Rant alert. It's under warranty but our selling dealer has an incompetent service dept and less than minimum sales dept and is only marginally a LL dealer. They probably don't see, let alone sell, more than a couple of Campsites per year anyway. The upshot is that we can't have warranty work done there. I'm doing all the repairs from defects myself and, looking at the bright side, I'm learning all about stuff I will need to know someday anyway! One lesson learned that I wish I could pass on to everyone looking at buying a travel trailer is that it seems all brands need significant work as they come from the factory and it's just as important to research dealers as it is to research brands! A good dealer makes all the difference in quality at delivery, special ordering, and followup. Rant over.
I'll figure out the shower drain. I doubt it's bad enough for warranty to cover it anyway; LL would not consider water on the shower floor a problem. But I do really want the shower pan tight against the base so it lasts a while. The flexing as we use it may cause it to break someday.
We couldn't live with a half inch of water in the shower after use, so this evening I removed the shower pan and immediately found the problem. The 1/2 inch thick sheet of black plastic material (no longer wood) that the shower pan sits on has a hole cut in it for the drain. You can see in this photo the sloppy installation work at LL left the drain pipe underneath the pan right on the edge of the hole in the plastic support sheet. The drain in the shower pan could not be screwed down tight to the black plastic sheet because the fitting in the shower pan hit the edge of the black plastic. Easy fix; just make the hole in the black plastic centered over the pipe! Then the shower pan will sit tightly against the black plastic base and drain properly. I'll go get out my coping saw.....
[a href="http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/Merlin3141/media/IMG_1462_zps9qhktwwu.jpg.html"]
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/Merlin3141/IMG_1462_zps9qhktwwu.jpg)
Gees.
[quote timestamp="1434330709" author="@sandroad" source="/post/12314/thread"]
We couldn't live with a half inch of water in the shower after use, so this evening I removed the shower pan and immediately found the problem. The 1/2 inch thick sheet of black plastic material (no longer wood) that the shower pan sits on has a hole cut in it for the drain. You can see in this photo the sloppy installation work at LL left the drain pipe underneath the pan right on the edge of the hole in the plastic support sheet. The drain in the shower pan could not be screwed down tight to the black plastic sheet because the fitting in the shower pan hit the edge of the black plastic. Easy fix; just make the hole in the black plastic centered over the pipe! Then the shower pan will sit tightly against the black plastic base and drain properly. I'll go get out my coping saw.....
[/quote][p]It's problems like this that highlight a lack of cellular manufacturing. I mean, do they really think that NOT producing the base sheet in quantity in a cell is the smart thing to do? Don't get me wrong. I do see the appeal of wearing a hole saw on the belt and approaching the task with all the swagger of John Wayne but as Kate said above, in nicer terms....WTF?[/p][p]
[/p][p]I can think of another use for those stilettos. Great work, Merlin
[/p]
Whoofit -- If I recall correctly the black plastic sheets I saw already had the holes milled out of them. It looks to me that the problem was entirely that of the plumber being inaccurate. No doubt the plumber could see the misalignment but chose to proceed - rather than correct the work.
[quote source="/post/12422/thread" timestamp="1434528593" author="@peislander"]Whoofit -- If I recall correctly the black plastic sheets I saw already had the holes milled out of them. It looks to me that the problem was entirely that of the plumber being inaccurate. No doubt the plumber could see the misalignment but chose to proceed - rather than correct the work.[/quote]If that's the case, I hope the factory corrected the plastic milling misalignment quickly, because otherwise there may be a number of Camplites out there with shower pans that don't drain correctly. The plumbing under the pan is not adjustable. The drain goes directly into an elbow that goes directly into the "HEPVA waterless trap" (whatever that is) and that goes directly into the "T" for the vent/grey pipe connection. There is no place to shorten the set-up, which is what would be needed to fit the hole in the black plastic. I enlarged the hole in the black plastic so the drain fitting would sit flush, reinstalled the the shower pan, and the the shower now drains fine.
For future reference to others; if you ever need to get at the drain fitting under the shower pan, it is accessible by removing the 3 screws in the trim on the toilet side and removing the aluminum skirting.
Nice post, @sandroad. If I have this problem, can I send you and your wife a plane ticket? The West Coast is wonderful in all seasons! 8-)
[quote timestamp="1434566696" source="/post/12444/thread" author="@kath"]Nice post, @sandroad. If I have this problem, can I send you and your wife a plane ticket? The West Coast is wonderful in all seasons! 8-)[/quote]No need, we'll be headed out that way soon anyway to visit my wife's relatives in Gold Beach! When we get things organized, I'll post details in the new meet-up section that Sean set up. We'll be pulling our Campsite and camping for the trip, so it'll be quite an expedition.
[quote source="/post/12422/thread" timestamp="1434528593" author="@peislander"]Whoofit -- If I recall correctly the black plastic sheets I saw already had the holes milled out of them. It looks to me that the problem was entirely that of the plumber being inaccurate. No doubt the plumber could see the misalignment but chose to proceed - rather than correct the work.[/quote]That's good to hear. I wonder how the bung hole in the shower pan would line up correctly though? At any rate glad I got John Wayne out of my head.
Sounds like a great trip you have planned. Give us a holler if you travel farther north and want a free beer. I hope you've planned a jet boat ride on the Rogue. It's my favorite part of that trip.