Just finishing up a four day stay on the seacoast. Did a brief walk around of the trailer while the CG was still asleep. Found this cracked weld on the tongue. This trailer has never seen a weight above 3300 lbs, a TW of 360 nor has it been offroad. I mean, come on, I tow with a Ford Escape. If anything I'd expect the TV to break apart like this.
This looks like it'gonna cost me two beers atleast. And I drank all mine last night!...sheesh
(http://rs1312.pbsrc.com/albums/t521/minuteman1965/Mobile%20Uploads/1431858651452175778623_zpsdvp5tszy.jpg~320x480)
Sunday morning - ouch! There are a lot of mobile RV repairmen. If you can't find one who is qualified to repair the weld, thry should be able to find someone who can come to take care of this.
Let us know how you are doing.
What part of the tongue is that?
I've had centerline cracks on tongue welds also.
I'm headed out to the trailer right now to check visible welds! That's scary. I'll add weld inspection to my pre-trip checklist, something I never expected to need to do.
It can be fixed just make sure you find some qualified in welding aluminum. It's a skill not every welder knows how to do. Should not cost that much to fix either.
I'm going to check out ours right now.
IIRC, aluminum is not "welded" per se´. I think the process is "Heli-Arc'd".
Though different, I think its very common, and many shops should be able to repair and reinforce a crack like that.
In any case, even if out of warranty it should be brought to Livin' Lite's attention. They may help out on the repair, even if out of warranty, but regardless should be informed or what may be an area of concern or weak welds.
[quote source="/post/10944/thread" timestamp="1431860586" author="@whoofit"]
Just finishing up a four day stay on the seacoast. Did a brief walk around of the trailer while the CG was still asleep. Found this cracked weld on the tongue. This trailer has never seen a weight above 3300 lbs, a TW of 360 nor has it been offroad. I mean, come on, I tow with a Ford Escape. If anything I'd expect the TV to break apart like this.
This looks like it'gonna cost me two beers atleast. And I drank all mine last night!...sheesh
(http://rs1312.pbsrc.com/albums/t521/minuteman1965/Mobile%20Uploads/1431858651452175778623_zpsdvp5tszy.jpg~320x480)
OK - no cracks or bending after 14 months and over 4,000 miles towing with a w/d hitch.
Just checked our hitch & no issues with at least 10,000 miles:
[a href="http://s657.photobucket.com/user/vstromklr/media/2015/IMG_7014_zpsedrmxi7n.jpg.html"]
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/vstromklr/2015/IMG_7014_zpsedrmxi7n.jpg)
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/vstromklr/2015/IMG_7013_zpsxs7irrgm.jpg)
DJD ! I've been thinking about taking welding at the local votech school. I did take regular stick welding way back when. But I am looking at Mig Tig classes. Hope you can get it resolved that is a crack I wouldn't want overlooked. LL should be contacted even if your rig is not within warranty.
[quote source="/post/10946/thread" timestamp="1431864890" author="@leslie"]Sunday morning - ouch! There are a lot of mobile RV repairmen. If you can't find one who is qualified to repair the weld, thry should be able to find someone who can come to take care of this.
Let us know how you are doing.[/quote]Thanks, Leslie. After inspecting the other three sides of the tube with a mirror I decided to haul it home about 90 miles. The split is only on this side of the tube. Appreciate the advice and concern!
[quote source="/post/10949/thread" timestamp="1431866124" author="@michael"]What part of the tongue is that?
I've had centerline cracks on tongue welds also. [/quote][p]Michael here's a better picture of the area. It is the weld on the left.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
(http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t521/minuteman1965/Mobile%20Uploads/1431896708957-363544119_zpsnwgexsq6.jpg)
Quote from: @fasteddieb" timestamp="1431869530" source="/post/10957/threadI'm going to check out ours right now.
IIRC, aluminum is not "welded" per se´. I think the process is "Heli-Arc'd".
Though different, I think its very common, and many shops should be able to repair and reinforce a crack like that.
In any case, even if out of warranty it should be brought to Livin' Lite's attention. They may help out on the repair, even if out of warranty, but regardless should be informed or what may be an area of concern or weak welds.
Yep Eddie it is still under warranty for another 9 months. I have a friend who builds all aluminum trailers as a business among other transportation devices. He'll fix me right up. I can't wait for him to explain what happened. It will be far over my head right down to grain boundary reasons I'm sure but he will handle this for a six pack or so... This trailer is a 2013 leftover with about 1200 miles all put on by us.
[quote source="/post/10968/thread" timestamp="1431872690" author="@exploringcarolina"][quote source="/post/10944/thread" timestamp="1431860586" author="@whoofit"]
[/quote]Can you take a photo of the frame & hitch around the cracked weld?
Thanks!
[/quote][p]Done, Bill. Pic enclosed.[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/10977/thread" timestamp="1431880657" author="@shovelhead"]DJD ! I've been thinking about taking welding at the local votech school. I did take regular stick welding way back when. But I am looking at Mig Tig classes. Hope you can get it resolved that is a crack I wouldn't want overlooked. LL should be contacted even if your rig is not within warranty.[/quote][p]Stick welding is all I've ever done too beside brazing and some silver soldering. I reckon LL has seen this all before. Maybe I'll send them a pic. I wouldn't expect them to be efficient in expediting a repair. I'll probably have another 2x4 tube welded to the bumper while I'm at it.[/p][p]
[/p][p]This thread was meant to alert owners in hopes they too will inspect before any catastrophic event would occur.
[/p]
[quote source="/post/10986/thread" timestamp="1431897456" author="@whoofit"][quote source="/post/10957/thread" timestamp="1431869530" author="@fasteddieb"]I'm going to check out ours right now.
[/quote]Yep Eddie it is still under warranty for another 9 months. I have a friend who builds all aluminum trailers as a business among other transportation devices. He'll fix me right up. I can't wait for him to explain what happened. It will be far over my head right down to grain boundary reasons I'm sure but he will handle this for a six pack or so... This trailer is a 2013 leftover with about 1200 miles all put on by us.
[/quote]Sounds like you are in good hands! Thanks for the photo!
Without getting too deep into welding technology (which I am no expert in, btw), that cracked weld looks like a classic case of lack of penetration. Look at the top of the weld. It looks like the welder simply daubed metal filler on top and didn't let the welding heat penetrate to fuse the underlying metal.
So I would definitely point out this problem to LL so they can learn from it.
The fix is easy- grind out the weld metal and bevel the joint. Then re-weld it.
This is typically done with an argon or helium shielded arc, sometimes called heli-arc. Simple stick welding won't work because the aluminum needs the inert gas shielding to keep it from burning up. Steel can get by with a flux coating on the welding rod but aluminum can't.
David
Yes, David I see more of a puddling and flow like braze versus bead like arc welding. I'm kind of embarrassed I did not see this sooner. I did not make it to the shop today as work ran over in this my busy season. I'm going to ask that he has his crew do a full inspection on the key areas while he has it. I'll forward a copy of his findings to LivinLite
There's a lot of welds on this puppy and I am obviously not qualified to handle a comprehensive inspection... Will not stop the trip to Mt Ascutney this weekend though.
[p]Repairs done. All at no cost to me just yet. I'm sure I'll pay dearly for it in the future in returning the favor...he's good like that. ;)[/p][p]
[/p][p]They found no other obvious flaws but did the other top side weld just to balance things out in appearance. He joked about watching my tongue weight now with all the added material in the weld. The crew, who weren't present when he welded my dinette mod, all joked about the size but in reality they were jealous.[/p][p]
[/p][p]On the first of June he will add the additional 2x4 to the bumper. Said he might want to pad some space between the 2x4s, by adding 5 or 6 spacers, then weld a top plate to accept the receiver. Figures $100 will do the trick. All that long-haired techie stuff is over my head..[/p][p]
[/p][p]Here's the product:[/p][p]
[/p][p]
(http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t521/minuteman1965/Mobile%20Uploads/14321323195831014291557_zpstoidvfrb.jpg)
Very nice welds. He's a pretty darn good welder. You should have took beer to cover the IOU ;)
[quote source="/post/11134/thread" timestamp="1432137100" author="@ammobob"]Very nice welds. He's a pretty darn good welder. You should have took beer to cover the IOU ;)[/quote]How true. Funny you said that because after the first weld being a bit crooked I asked him if he'd been drinking already or if he was sending a message to me in the shape of dollar signs...heh
I visual check all of my vehicles, camper and trailer on a routine basis. When I worked at the fire dept. a lot of coworkers had campers of all types and makes and it was not uncommon to find a broken weld, missing bolt or something broken that could be a serious problem. I was underneath my camper once checking the spare tire only to find a large gopher snake loafing on top of spare.
Check my Bearcat over yesterday, every thing is perfect.
[p]This crack seemed to appear overnight while just sitting there. Reason I say this is I snapped a pic of the sticker regarding my need to have an auto battery connected for my safety brake system to operate. I posted it in PEIslanders thread regarding those. The sticker is maybe 4 inches from the weld that cracked. I do believe I would have noticed it then.
Next morning it was cracked. We are not THAT active...[/p][p]
[/p][p]Nevertheless it was a crummy weld...[/p]
Inspection is a must
[quote source="/post/16322/thread" timestamp="1445998111" author="@jefflatsch"]Inspection is a must [/quote][p]Truth. Have not had any further issues. Inspection mirror is a good idea.
[/p]
Compare whoofit's cracked weld with the good ones on rideandfly's trailer. As I said earlier the cracked weld looks like a classic case of lack of penetration where the filler was just dabbed on top and the underlying metal was not fused. Ask your welder friend to look for more like that. Whoever made that bad weld probably made others.
That weld should have been obvious to anyone checking for quality at the factory.
I just bought a boat anchor and there was a sticker on it with the QC guys initials on it attesting to the weld quality. If an anchor mfg can do it for something critical for safety, maybe LL should also do it.
David
I would think that there had to be some kind of flexing for that weld to come apart, did you inspect the frame under the trailer?
Quote from: @pjcd" timestamp="1446171834" source="/post/16361/threadI would think that there had to be some kind of flexing for that weld to come apart, did you inspect the frame under the trailer?
[p]I did and so did my certified (and quite certifiable lol) welder friends crew. Of course they came back with all kinds of critique about how they, themselves, could have individually done better work almost as if they were bucking for raises or brownie points with the Boss. But in the end they were satisfied with all the rest of the structural welding.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I know there is a lot of flexing in a trailer. Always. Even by design as you are sure to have seen with long flat beds having a huge upward arch while travelling unloaded. [/p][p]
[/p][p]I can tell you that while building the dual battery platform across the A frame last week that the three pieces (outer tubes and inner tube) that make up the tongue are not on the same plane precisely. There is 1/4" drop from center tube to end tubes...and which one is level or correct is anyones guess.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I can only add that one should never seek to level their trailer fore to aft or port to starboard using the tongue as their reference....because of bending, flexing and twisting.
[/p]
I would think the welds are also impacted by temperature changes. Between the heat effect from welding, and the difference in material thickness I could see the crack forming overnight as it heated and cooled.
If this was a case of lack of penetration the the little bit of filling metal wouldnt take much to crack...or at least thats how it seems
[p]Sean, whether or not it was related to the thermal expansion coefficients is unclear. I have some experience interpreting environmental chamber test results on sintered metal oxide ceramics used in temperature sensing and have seen a slew of catastrophic failures because of both large and rapid and large and slow thermal cycling.
One thing I feel certain of is this crack formed overnight with the trailer at rest. It wasn't like we were doing jumping jacks in there either.[/p][p]
[/p][p]It could also be vibration related but like you said...the weld was thin and almost foil like. Just plain crummy all around.[/p]
The crack probably started a while before you noticed it and took a while to propagate to the surface. Generally they start at a point of high stress concentration and then due to fatigue or an application of a high force, the crack begins. While at rest, the normal forces the weld would see from movement in the trailer and/or thermal was enough to bring the crack to the surface.